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rattleshock 2 April 2017

[MEDIA=soundcloud]glennkelton/brett-kissel-cool-with-that[/MEDIA]

My first post here, but I have lurked forever :)

Just finished a mix in the top 40 country pop/rock vein. I used Cubase 9 with Slate Digital and Solid State Logic plugins, and the bundled Steinberg plugins. The artists is Brett Kissel, a local country artist from Edmonton, Alberta Canada (also, my place of residence). This song is called 'Cool With That'.

I don't usually post my work, but any comments or criticisms are more than welcome.

I just started working with recording and mixing 'country' artists and bands and find it a whole new experience trying to get that full in your face modern punchy sound, yet still being faithful to the aspects of the genre. I also struggled on this track to find the right vocal balance. This is my vocal up version, which is my favorite so far. Again, this genre seems to have vocals a little more forward and focused than standard rock/pop mixes. At least in my observations.

Things I did: The kick and snare were recorded fine (kick in - AKG 212 Snare - Beyerdynamic M201), but lacked the depth and punch I was looking for when it came to put it all together so I used some sample enhancement to tuck in behind the direct mic source recordings (Slate Trigger). I opted to leave the room mics out of the final mix, and just rely on the OH for kit cohesion.

Tuning of the vocals happened prior to mixing, so there was no further work needed for pitch correction.

2 delay lines (one for spot vocal FX and one for guitar solo), and 3 reverbs (one for snare, one for steel guitar and one for vocals)

All compression and EQ was with the SSL Duende Channel strip plugin . All reverbs were Slate Digital Verbsuite Classic plugins.

I used the channel strip noise gate, compressor and EQ in Cubase 9 as well on a variety of tracks. A small (2db) of limiting on the master bus to reign in the dynamics just a little bit and bring some fatness to the track. No master EQ.

Enough of the boring details. Hope you like it and I hope to improve and learn from your feedback.

CHEERS!
Glenn

Comments

DonnyThompson Sun, 04/02/2017 - 23:14

It's a good song.

On my system, it's sounding pretty "dark", though. Heavy in the low mids, sorta muddy, and pretty shy on hi-mid presence, and top end sparkle/silk.
It's pretty heavily compressed, too... maybe that's what you want, though.
Have you listened to this mix on a variety of other playback systems other than through your monitors?

Have you referenced your mix with a similar style commercial mix?

It seems to be lacking the "air" that I hear a lot of in "modern" country mixes...

But don't take my word for it, and don't do anything until some of the other RO guys to weigh in.
I've been mixing 3 songs non-stop for about 3 days now, so my ears aren't exactly as fresh as they would normally be.

IMHO.
-d.

rattleshock Mon, 04/03/2017 - 00:56

Thanks for the feedback, Donny.

I have not referenced at all, just got balls deep into it tonight and got to where I am. I need to listen again with fresh ears in the morning. Sometimes the audio rabbit hole is hard to come out of when you work so long on something. I have noted all your observations. Thank you so much for the comments!

Cheers!
Glenn

rattleshock Mon, 04/03/2017 - 09:04

I cut the audio file up, moved all breaths to an uncompressed track so they didn't have the gasping for air effect. No gate. I'll check that spot. It's amazing how you miss tiny details when there is so much to juggle. The biggest thing I've learned in the last year is DETAILS DETAILS DETAILS. Yet, I still miss them. Thanks for the constructive feedback!

Cheers!
Glenn

DonnyThompson Tue, 04/04/2017 - 08:53

Well, for what it matters, to my ears, you're still very shy on your upper end - mostly on the backing tracks, Rattle...and too heavy in your low-mids. It's missing definition and clarity.
The lead vocal EQ is a bit better than the tracks underneath it, but the whole mix still sounds very "muffled" to me.

I'm not trying to convince you to make these changes - it's your mix, your vision - I'm just telling you what I'm hearing.

(FWIW, I'm not listening through earbuds, or my iphone speaker, or computer speakers... I'm listening through studio monitors, ( 2 different pairs, actually) in a room that has been fairly-well acoustically treated, and is pretty well-balanced).

I would be surprised if my colleagues here wouldn't notice this as well. ( dvdhawk Boswell pcrecord audiokid Kurt Foster kmetal @Chris Perra, et al)

I'm also noticing some lossy artifacts on the vocal - "phasey" sounding sections and words - BUT - that could very well be due to Soundcloud's MP3 coding - yours wouldn't be the first case of this that I've heard from SC uploads.

I'm assuming that you are delivering your final mix in a .wav 24 bit format...and not sending out this MP3?

That being said, as I mentioned before, I think it's a very good song, with very solid performances all the way around. I just wish it had more sparkle and silk, more clarity and definition, and less low-mid/mid-range "mud".

FWIW
-d.

audiokid Tue, 04/04/2017 - 09:04

Thanks for the invite.

I quickly (sorry, limited time today) listened to this and I would first off like to say, you have a great country sound!

That being said, its hard for me to give any sort of opinion on the mix because it sounds very (low bit rate sounding) compressed. What bit rate is this?
Exaggerating, but to define what I mean.... the sound of out of range AM radio when I am up in the mountains fishing.

DonnyThompson Tue, 04/04/2017 - 09:14

audiokid, post: 449131, member: 1 wrote: That being said, its hard for me to give any sort of opinion on the mix because it sounds very (low bit rate sounding) compressed. What bit rate is this?

I think Chris has a solid point here - can you upload a 320kbps MP3 directly to RO for us to reference?

At the bottom right hand corner of your screen, just to the right of the "post reply" button, is "Upload a File".
Select this, and it will open your computer's directory, allowing you to choose the file.
Give it a minute or two to upload, the speed depends on your PC's connection speed, and even your regional connection speed through your provider.

Try to upload a mix that has been rendered ( mixed) at at least 250 kbps ( or better).

(Don't just "re-sample" your current MP3 resolution... that won't do any good... you need to render a mix at the resolution you desire to upload here.

audiokid Tue, 04/04/2017 - 09:32

rattleshock, post: 449132, member: 50489 wrote: I wonder why Soundcloud is adding so many artifacts to the audio file. It was a 320kbps MP3 file straight from Cubase. What is the best way to share audio on forums? Any other suggestions of better methods with less lossless compression? Thanks for the comments!

How does it sound to you? Does your mix sound close to what it render at online?
I don't put this much blame on soundcloud because when I do get a mix right, it does sound pretty good on soundcloud. Or at least, close to how I prepared it to sound in my studio.(granted, soundcloud does do weird things to audio)

Chances are, Cubase and some of your techniques need improvement. Which is why we are all here for one reason or another lol (Including myself). Its an never ending humbling journey!

(edit) I think you are smashing the hell out of your mix. Normalizing tracks instead of letting them all breath dynamically maybe?

pcrecord Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:33

DonnyThompson, post: 449130, member: 46114 wrote: Well, for what it matters, to my ears, you're still very shy on your upper end - mostly on the backing tracks, Rattle...and too heavy in your low-mids.

I think the latest mix as more high end but the thing is , he might have added on the very top only (8k and higher) I'm starting to hear sibilance. I think the 3k to 8k needs work too.
As it is, the Hi-hat is hurting my ears...
The low end is better but maybe it lacks a bit of focus...

I agree that this is too loud of a mix and it may participate in cloacking some elements. I'll try to measure the level and frequencies when I get to the studio tonight.

audiokid Tue, 04/04/2017 - 10:36

rattleshock, post: 449138, member: 50489 wrote: Chances are I need a hell of a lot improvement! Thus, why I'm here. To learn from all the great people and experience in that exists in places like this. :)

right on, you aren't alone.

Are you by chance normalizing tracks? How are you compressing or adjusting volumes?
Gain staging> Your mix has the indication of being tracked or mixed above the optimal levels thus the final mix sounding like this. Which can be assumed its a bit rate problem (soundcloud).

rattleshock Tue, 04/04/2017 - 19:43

Ok, guys. I took all your advice to heart and revisited a lot of the elements. Hopefully this an improvement. Did some work carving out the vocals in the lower mids to take some boxiness out. Also, I scooped some of the mids out of the electric guitars, especially the power chords in the chorus, brightened up the top end of the strings to help them poke through a little more. Brought the banjo and Hammond B3 up a little more. Pushed a little more reverb on the lead vocals as well. I attached the MP3 as opposed to using Soundcloud. My uploads sound weird in the top end, but don't sound like that on my computer. Weird.

Always learning, forever tweaking. What am I? A mixer :D

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Attached files

Brett Kissel - April 5.2017 250kbps V2.mp3 (7.9 MB) 

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