I've had some similar thoughts...not in a mall, but the karaoke thing. My wife used to host karaoke at a place in her home town - that spurred thought of recording karaoke anyways...

I do my best singing on karaoke night, just ask me!

Live karaoke recording cd burning in a bar, now that would be wild as heck ;)

yeah it could work, all you would need to do is make sure that its all sound proffed etc, which may create a high start up cost, also would have to look at laws on recording minors i dont know if there is a law, but say a 11 kid walked in and wanted to record could you do that with out the parents consent, etc....

Usually I only feel the need to quote this when I walk past people staking shelves at my local supermarket under the worst florescent light and with the worst music playing over tinny speakers...

"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

A girl working in a tanning salon that had shop frontage looking into an underground car park saw me mouth those words. And you would too from the desk inside your karaoke recording studio if I walked past.

That being said, if you have mouths to feed...

There's a lot of potential for good singers to be "found" like this.

If you marketed it properly with an emphasis on groups (like recording 4 people for one track)...how many people are going to bring a group and sing along to "Now That's What Calls Music!"

You'd be looking at a fairly big setup though, if you want a whole studio in the back. Maybe a main vocal booth, a karaoke room, a main room and then a shop front. The karaoke room would have a glass wall so you could see in from reception...
I have too much of this planned.

Codemonkey wrote:
I have too much of this planned.

I'm with you...
Every time I go into our local mall and see the shop *right next to* the Guitar Center sitting vacant, my mind races with ideas...

I don't think it would actually be that much of a start up cost - no more than retro-fitting any other existing structure into a recording studio. I suppose it could be done VERY easily within a $20K budget...

I thought of the idea first when I saw something similar at a local amusement park (King's Dominion). They record kids with a green screen behind them and put all sorts of music-video-esque things behind them while they sing along with Britney and other no-talent hacks.

I imagine they would have more of a legal issue on their hands...just imagine what could be done if a raw green screen footage were to be released of teenagers singing... :-O

haha true..
it could work, got the unqiue factor and def an edge on other people..
suppose no reason why someones studio cant be in a mall compare to in a basment or where ever you want a studio to be..
at least they can go shopping while they waiting for the track to be mixed down lol.

If I was older, richer and had a bit more cred in the business world, I'd go do this right now. Seriously. However...

Actually I thought of a problem - isolation (obviously it's not gonna be a major one)? You're gonna get a lot of noise from shoppers.

What would you call it?
Store Recordings?

A Room Without A View Productions?

TheUkProducer wrote: ......say a 11 kid walked in and wanted to record could you do that with out the parents consent, etc....

I would say probably not. Not if you want the kid to sign any kind of confidentiality agreement or if you want to maintain any kind of rights in regards to mechanical or if say he needed back up instrumentation. Maybe if it were merely a Karaoke recording(which is a available in one of the malls here), it would be ok. But if we're talking originals, it could be an issue.

This is the case with any studio - mall or otherwise.

When a minor comes in to do anything (rare - usually violinists/etc. for taped auditions) we have the parents present and sign.

For a "mall" situation - it would be a Karaoke kind of thing only. If they want to book real studio time...bring the parents.

Regarding isolation -
It would be far less of a problem than you'd think. Shopping malls in the US are built quite well with significant isolation from one store to the next (fear of a fire spreading and getting out of hand in a crowded, large environment.)

Many of the stores in the local mall have a solid front (usually glass but some other materials as well.) I'm certain one could build an isolating wall of glass, then perhaps a small waiting area/lobby/information/viewing area and then the studio. This would actually be quite easy and cost less than about $500.

Bear in mind, the goal of the front-facing studio wouldn't be perfect isolation and EXTREME quality -
it would be for daddy's princesses or some punk to come lay down his/her voice over bad backing tracks...to pay the rent so to say. (Oh...and have a local GC flunky man the recording up front - pay him/her $8 an hour and crank them out all day... Kids pay $25 a track to lay their voices down - pitch corrected all to hell...you could squeeze in 6 or so an hour.)

So, if you did 60 kids a day at $25 a pop, that's only $1500 gross per day.

When you start adding up your investment and operating costs, that's not a lot of money. And that's assuming that you will have 6 kids an hour for 10 hours each day. Maybe in the right market, but I doubt you could fly it in this city of 1 million.

I suppose people make a living with a lot less though. Like the GC guy that you will hire. And, if you like recording bad singers in front of bad muzak for a living it would not be so bad.

Well...you're making a few assumptions here.

If we're assuming we're talking about me and my studio doing this:
1 - I already clear a pretty decent amount on top of this already (quite into the black for the past several years)
2 - Our population is far greater than 1 million. The city of Fredericksburg and counties of Stafford, Spotsylvania and King George (the areas serviced by this mall - not to mention Caroline county and Prince William county (PW county is huge BTW)) is over 3 million.

Also, I wouldn't be the one recording the kids so I could care less about listening to the music. I'm talking about a "front business" - the purpose of which would be to "pay the rent" on the facility solely. This being done, the remainder of the studio could operate in the black at all times with no worries of sustainment.

BTW - $1500 gross daily is a LOT of money for a "project" studio. Even if it only cleared $200 a day during the week and $1000 a day on the weekends, I could pay the kids' wages (button pushers), keep the lights on, maintain all equipment (computers, phones, internet, utilities, etc.), pay the rent and still pocket a bit. (And throw a nice Xmas party for the GC dropouts.)

Cucco,

this actully was done quite a few years (maybe even a couple of decades) ago in a mall in Indianapolis. It offered prerecorded tracks of Top 40 songs. Kind of a precursor to karaoke.

It lasted about 18 mos, IIRC.

Which mall??

I used to live in Indianapolis (Castleton) - walking distance from Castleton Square Mall (back in the early to mid 80s.) It seems to me that this is more of a desire in today's society though as it seems EVERYONE wants to be a superstar...
;-)

Jeremy-

It might work, but is it just an add-on to your business or does it help you in other ways? The problem I see with it as an expansion for a studio like yours is that you have probably raised your monthly overhead costs by a lot. It's tempting because you can keep the startup costs low (given your existing investments), but I'm not sure it really helps you in any other way. You are simply expanding into an area that doesn't seem to have really low margins.

On the other hand, I think you are aiming at the right crowd. Problem is that Mom and Dad may spend $100 buck with you and then walk over to GC and plunk down $5000. (Especially if your teenagers areHow are you going to get some of that $5000 in your pocket? No question that that is where the money is - but how do you get it?

Cucco wrote:

Which mall??

I used to live in Indianapolis (Castleton) - walking distance from Castleton Square Mall (back in the early to mid 80s.)

No kidding?! I lived in Lawrence. I bet you used to frequent IRC alot back then.

I honestly don't remember for sure if it was in Indy or Columbus, OH where I moved to in '88. Or it might have been somewhere I saw it while on the road. My memories from 1970 - 1990 are somewhat muddled, if ya know what I mean. but I definately didn't dream it... at least I don't think so... sometimes it hard to tell the difference... anyone seen my meds?

Ha...
it could be my memory too.
after all, when I lived there, I was a bit younger. If it didn't have boobs or explode, I wasn't interested in it...

Exploding boobs...now that is a night not to be forgotten!!!

I’m so glad I found this thread!

My studio is located in a mall here in South Florida. The mall itself is in a large resort hotel on the beach and I got a smoking deal on rent for a 500 sq foot space. My other half was WAY over clients being at the house at all hours when I had the studio at my home so I decided to give it a go.

Noise has not been an issue at all. I had to “deaden” the room a bit by hanging thick dark curtains over the glass wall at the front. I also use gates, which help a lot, and I hung foam in the vocal recording area. After a year I have never had to do a recording over again because of any outside noise.

First, the good things….

The amenities in the mall are a Godsend! There’s a food court not far away so my clients can take a break and get something to eat. I love that because I no longer have to provide snacks and drinks as I did when I had the studio in my house. Clients can shop in other stores while I work on their mix or go to the beach bar which is a two minute walk from my studio. I worked out a deal with the three restaurants and got a good discount so I can take my higher end clients out for lunch away from the studio. If a session starts to get a little stormy I simply say, “Let’s go have lunch and take a break!”

I should note that my studio is a bit out of the way so I don’t get a ton of foot traffic. I am on the directory though so I have drummed up some business with people stopping in and checking the place out. If I’m in a session I just hang a “Session In Progress. Please do NOT Disturb” sign on the door which has my phone number so they can call for information if they wish to. It turned out that one of the shop owners is a singer. She stopped in when I first moved there, booked a session and now she is one of my biggest clients.

There is Wifi throughout the entire mall so I get free internet. That’s a huge plus! There is also 24 hour security

About minors….I often have kids who want to come in and check the place out. I simply hand them a card and tell them I would be more than happy to have them in as long as they have a parent or guardian with them. I have a strict policy about minors in the studio. I require a parent present just to cover my ass. I am an openly gay man (I don’t advertise it but I don’t lie about it either) and the last thing I need is some bogus accusation from some homophobic parent. I have never had a problem and I may be paranoid but you can never tell these days.

As an aside, being gay has worked to my advantage in a lot of ways. I have a lot of beautiful female clients who love working with me because they feel more comfortable around me. I also have a lot of gay male clients who feel like they can let down their guard. But that’s for a different thread.

There are downsides though. I get a lot of tire kickers in. I’ve had to learn to keep the conversation short with those kinds of people. I don’t want to blow a potential client off but I have been able to tell who is serious and who isn’t. I have a sheet printed out that I give everyone who drops in which outlines my services and fees so that’s been helpful in cutting people off without being a total jerk to them.

Also, the studio is in a public place which means that I’m open to everyone. I used to screen them on the phone or through email before I met up with a potential client when I had the studio in my house. I get a few people in who are “just curious” and they want to just hang around. I have one guy who stops in every few weeks and wants to chat on and on about his “music career” (he hasn’t booked a session yet!) and it’s hard to get rid of him without being rude.

I get a few “know-it-alls” in too. These people are usually other studio owners in the area who want to chew the fat and tell me how great they are and how they do things better. I’m always up to learn from others in the biz, but when they point to my screen and say “Yeah man, Protools is the only way to go. You can’t make good music without Protools!” I have to roll my eyes and cut the conversation short. Especially since I use Digital Performer and that is what is on my computer screen.

All-in-all I am happy with my location. I’ve met a lot of interesting people I would never have met if I were running out of my house. Running the studio in the mall has made me a lot more visible and has worked to my advantage. However, if you’re not a “people person” I would not recommend setting up in such a public space. Some days I am very busy and I don’t feel like dealing with people and it’s a bit more difficult seclude myself without being a jerk.

Sorry this is so long. Just wanted to share my experience. Thanks and have a great weekend!

That's an excellent post.
Thanks krazykorg!

Jeremy, I think you're onto something!

Krazykorg-

Thanks for the post. Very interesting. Care to tell us more info about how the 500 sq ft is configured? Also is it strictly a one-man operation?

KK....what mall? Just curious. I won't come by and bug you or anything like that. ;)

BTW...what about after hours operation?

Thanks Everyone for the replies.

To answer your questions, I am a one man operation, though I do sub-contract services out as I need them, such as musicians, backup vocalists, mastering, vocal arrangers, etc. I’ve been so lucky in that I have developed a circle of people I can depend on to help make a project great! The good thing too is that they will usually choose to barter their services. This allows me to give the client even better service while keeping the costs down. Everybody wins.

I do a lot of demo work for independent artists in the area. The vast majority of my clients are singer/songwriters types who don’t know music or play an insterment. I provide them with a full arrangement of their song (which I sequence using the keyboards) vocal recording and mixing. For those who want a more involved demo I usually call in other musicians I know at an extra cost to the client. I also do karaoke tracks, voice-overs, and remixes.

I really try to stay clear of recording bands. I’ve worked in bands before and there’s too much drama. (Sorry to all you band folks out there. No offense intended! :=)

The configuration for a 500 sq foot place works well for me. You walk into the room and the console desk is right in fornt of you against the oppsite wall. To the left of the console are the keyboards. To the right is the vocal/mic recording area. I had thought of getting a vocal booth but in my VERY humble opinion I feel that a closed in space makes the sound too dead and one dimensional. I like to give the sound more “room to breathe”. I only say this because a lot of people who come in ask me why I don’t have a vocal booth like the professional studios.

In one corner I have a huge chair which many a client has fallen asleep on while they wait for their mixes. The other corner has my desk with a laptop where I take care of all the business stuff. There’s also a supply closet where I can keep extra supplies I need. The room has it’s own AC control (electric is included in my rent, so I can adjust the temp of the room without worrying about the costs).

I have 24 hour access to the studio which is great because I (and a few of my clients) am a night owl so I can work whenever I want. The official word on hours of operation is 1pm to 6am. I’ve never had a client book before 1pm anyways.

Pr0gr4m, I’m in the Oceanwalk Mall in the Hollywood Beach Resort. Drop in if you’re in the area.

Thanks again, everyone!

krazykorg wrote: But that’s for a different thread.

Me personally I like cheeseburgers. Not that anyone would ever ask. People usually just do not ask "hey, do you like cheeseburgers?" You can get one cheeseburger and then get another cheeseburger, and neither one will complain about the other.

But on the other hand, where was I at...oh yea, port forwarding. The thing I like about port forwarding is that you never really know where your going to wind up. You may start at 55000, which acts a lot like 443, difference is, neither one cares about cheeseburgers? Is that a crime?

Not in most states.

Now why do you care you may ask. Funny, I was asking myself the same thing.

great idea at first, except..

1. bands wouldnt want to drag their gear through the mall.
2. no booze in the mall
3. no grass in the mall

you can work around #1 if you have all the amps, drums, instruments, etc.

rockstardave wrote: great idea at first, except..

1. bands wouldnt want to drag their gear through the mall.
2. no booze in the mall
3. no grass in the mall

you can work around #1 if you have all the amps, drums, instruments, etc.

1 - Many of the stores on the back side of the malls have separate entrances - making it easier to load in gear.
2 - Why not? There are plenty of restaurants in our mall - many of which sell beer/wine/liquor...
3 - No grass is allowed in my studio at any time - ever. I wouldn't worry about this one myself. (Pot and $100K worth of studio gear don't play well together. Neither, for that matter does booz.)

How to get awesome sound: pour beer into your inserts. Consume grass yourself until it sounds great.

Don't tell everyone my secret!