SSL G Buss or API 2500
Looking at adding another 2-bus comp to my chain. I'm going to get them both sooner or later but just wanted to hear some opinions. Please chime in and share your experiences on either of these.
I think you personally would prefer the SSL. it's more transparent. all SSL stuff is designed that way.the API stuff is Transformers in and out and a bit more colored.
it appears a lot of studio engineers like to track Neve / API and mix SSL ... pick your poison.
I've worked on Neve consoles and with Neve peripheral OB gear quite a bit in the past (the real thing not the plug ins) and I was certainly plenty happy in doing so.
I mixed on an SSL G Series Console a few times. Have also had the opportunity to work with API, Trident, Harrison, Fairchild, UA, etc.
(I never actually owned any of this stuff... my studio was considered "mid grade" with gear like Neotek (Elan), Amek (Scorpion), Soundcraft (DC 20-20) Yamaha (O2R) etc., but, I did work on the high caliber equipment mentioned above as a hired gun engineer working at other studios besides my own)
I would agree with Kurt that SSL tends to be more "transparent", while the Neve and API stuff does have its own "sound"... but I think you're still probably looking at six in one hand / half a dozen in the other, sonically.
In short: I don't think you're really gonna go wrong with anything of true pro quality, and in saying that, I don't believe we are telling you anything you don't already know, Chris. You're living proof of what can be accomplished by having a highly skilled engineer on high caliber gear.
I suppose that perhaps the question you need to ask yourself, is what you expect to get out of any gear you'd buy.
If you're looking for coloration within the application, well, IMO, you've already got a lot of that going on in your Neos and your OB rack with your LA2's, 1176's, etc.
So maybe something a bit more transparent would be in order as it would give you the choice of which to use, depending of course upon the application at hand.
IMHO of course.
check out the George Massenburg version of the SSL ...
Everyone likes those SSL bus compressors. But then for those that like that API sound, you've got that. Neve limiters are also quite desirable. But with your system, that kind of coloration might not be what you want? Your system is already meticulously assembled and quite transparent. So I think you should look into the GML limiters? DBX VCA's have been used in his previous limiters with his input and output circuitry that we all know is stellar and relies on higher voltage rails than most others. George was one of the first to pursue high voltage rail preamps and EQ's along with his limiters. Right up your alley. I've used a Manley Variable mu and I wasn't wild about that. I know their stuff is good but it does not wow me. At the same time... I think it's Manley that is now making all of the GML stuff? Both great quality. Both quite different.
I guess that's what Kurt is talking about also? But that's not really George's version of an SSL. That's George's version of George's version. I guess they both use VCA's? And probably the same ones? And George's also gives you the option of peak, fast RMS and slow RMS sensing. I just can't get my head around " Crest Factor "? Reminds me of the Spectra 610 Sonics Comp Limiter, which I also could never figure out what it was good for LOL? I sold off my pair from a bulk purchase of used audio gear. All I could do was get them to pump in a nasty way I didn't care for much LOL. Almost the same with those API 525's. Though there are folks that swear by those. I just swore at them.
i can't find anything on it now ... they used to be advertised in the back pages of Mix and EQ ... one space SSL compressors racked up by George Massenburg ... they even had the weird square meter.
for rucks Chris, you should get a Valley People dyna-mite. they're cheap and unique. as far as i'm concerned a DBX 160 or a dyna-mite are the only vca comps i like. everything else is opto.
Thanks for chiming in everyone, I really appreciate the comments!
The GML 8900 is the one I think you are all thinking about, yes, or the GML 2030?
niether one of those. this was a one space box ... silver with a panel that had a strange pebble texture and the square meter that was on the ssl modules in the consoles. i'm pretty sure they were actual compressor modules out of 40 series ssl consoles that Massenburg racked up.
There is a single rack strip?
I think the SSL is going to be it though but please try and talk me out of it lol. My STC-8 is relatively close the 8900. I know its not a GML and George would cringe hearing this but its somewhat similar, so I'm told. The STC-8 might have a bit more colour which is more like sliky sheen. before I bought that, I was looking at the 8900 but finally jumped on the STC-8. I love it.
I do want the API because I need something colourful and useful for Rock and Bluesy Stems including 2-bus tasks but the SSL might be the better choice after the STC-8. I hate trying to decide.
audiokid, post: 403290 wrote:
I do want the API because I need something colourful and useful for Rock and Bluesy Stems including 2-bus tasks
then i would just snagg the API!
Neve is way down on my list if ever but thanks for the suggestion McBeak.
Pan, I want both, API 2500 and the SSL.! Need money more money!
Thanks for the suggestion Kurt, but I have enough UA now but they would look great!
McMurphy, post: 403278 wrote: Reminds me of the Spectra 610 Sonics Comp Limiter, which I also could never figure out what it was good for LOL? I sold off my pair from a bulk purchase of used audio gear. All I could do was get them to pump in a nasty way I didn't care for much LOL. McMurphy
I had a 610 & I didn't like it on anything! I even sent it back to the factory assuming that it must be defective. When it came back, it was different but still unusable. There must have been something about this that I just didn't get because others seem to have had good experiences with them.
Kurt Foster: "a pair of LA3's & LA4's would be nice"
Let me tell you about my experience with these things. I loved the LA-3's right from the start. I still do. They just seem to be so perfect for everything. I never had a problem with an LA-3. This is from over 35 years of experience with them.
Back in the 1980's, I got a job designing a facility & I wanted to use some LA-3's but they didn't make them anymore so I specified LA-4's. IIRC I had 6 of them. When the operators started using the facility, they immediately complained that some of them sounded horrible. I looked into it and found that indeed some were fine but others sounded terrible! I pulled one of the terrible ones and put it on an analyzer. It had very low distortion below threshold. Also, at large amounts of gain reduction, it had very low distortion. But, at around 6 dB of gain reduction, the THD was several percent. After some trading around, I found this to be a function of the photocells that they used. Some were much better than others. UREI sold replacement photocells as selected parts but they were selected to make the gain reduction metering track the actual action, not for THD. The only alternative was for me to buy a large number of photocells and hand select them myself for distortion. I did that...it wasn't that bad. Most of the ones I bought were pretty good. So, beware if you buy a hardware LA-4, it may require some attention.
There is a problem with all of this. You are lucky if you have something that is really, really, obviously bad. That way you know that it needs some attention. If you are unfortunate enough to get one that is just a little bad, you might not even know it. You might even mistake the distortion for some 'character.' I was lucky to have a number of different LA-4's to compare and contrast. If you have just one, you might not know if it is ok.
Pan, do you own an API 2500?
mberry, thanks for that info. I have 3 UA with bad VU meters dead and they are only a year old. Just sent them off for warranty.
I have a chance to get a used SSL that I want but the input light is dead on it. It shouldn't effect the sound of it, apparently it functions perfect other that that. I never buy used. hmm
no i do not: ( on my want list but like you need more money: )
I'm in the middle of my rewire for the studio and had a friend over who's a bigtime pro helping and getting the new ADC bays set up and everything truly pro in its signal flow. Set up now so I can easily come out of the box into the Toft for some analog love.....
Anyway...He's all about the SSL bus comp. He's building a clone with a bunch more headroom than the SSL has. Why? Because he can. You'd like this guy Chris. He's talking hybrid and does serious Pop music. Like you he thinks this is the HARDEST stuff to do right.
But most of his racks are handmade clones with improvements. BTW....His Dad builds amplifiers. I have one.
Dave, I'm so happy you are taking this step, you won't regret it!
Thanks for your suggestion but I have a good deal on a second hand SSL G XLogic, so I'm just waiting to rack it.
Even though I'm somewhat inclined to believe clones might be as good or even better/different, I think there is a sound to the real SSL that the others might not have down exactly. Some say the real one can squish the bottom when pushed hard, I tend to think this might be one of the best assets why it works so well. I actually need to tame my bottom end down because the NEOS is so HUGE coming out the other side lol. That bass and space is where all the magic lives.
Thanks for thinking about me and chiming in on this, I really appreciate it. Maybe your friend can send me one in exchange to promote it here. I would love to compare it? Please pass that on!
I'm definitely having fun in analog world now, no return for me. Welcome back Dave! That's how I see it. Yup, welcome back to how it was before audio got all sterilized sounding.
I never didn't believe in it, I just didn't have the studio set up to use the OTB nor did I have a mixer with the sound of this Toft. Not saying its going to rival anything like a true summing situation but it WILL be something I can use in my future productions. A couple of drum 2-bus's on the last record I did were sent back out through the DBX160SL and then those two tracks integrated back into the drum mix. A bigger sound for sure. Much fuller and more dynamic. Its a trick we used to do back in the day when we would sub-mix tracks to op-en up more tracks for more stuff......
As far as the bus comp, another buddy has a 2500. Its pretty good but like Kurt I think for your situation the SSL is going to be the candy.
I'd be interested in hearing what these sound like. Of course I've read the reviews on both. I love everything API that I've used. Definite color and a good one at that. I like the new SSL eqs contrary to what the snobs say:). When I've used SSL bus plugs I've found them too aggressive and we know that's a fair comparison because plugs are obscenely accurate:)
I've had a Manley vari-mu on my 2-bus for half a decade and don't feel the need to change but I always wonder what I'm missing.
We definitely need to all start comparing our mixes and sharing things more, even if its in private. Since I actually got the stuff I use, I believe about 10% of what I read on forums now. Hearing is more believing. What I'm planning, and have been already regardless of being scrutinized, shamed or praised, is sharing tracks online here. It really helps me more than I think it does others. Gives me confidence in a way that keeps me on my toes , keeps my bias at check. Know what I mean?
I've got the SSL G on order (I hope the deal goes through) and I'm planning to get a 2500 ASAP. Once I'm familiar with these two staples, I'm going to do some comparisons for us all. I think it will be fun and helpful.
The Vari Mu is on my list but not sure about it yet. I've heard from many that is kind of a Jeans and T-Shirt , which sounds pretty cool to me too.
Ha! Jeans and T's. never heard that. I describe it as silky highs that ad this slight Shhh sound to the highs. It thickens lows and glues things together. I've done 3 mixes this week without it and it is seriously tough gluing things together with a plug in comp.
I like sharing mixes to. I guess I need to break down and get a sound cloud account:)