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Tannoy Reveal, Rokit KRK G4, Yamaha HS or Yamaha MSP?

Hello all,

I opened a new thread, because the question in maybe too specific. Did not see people comparing monitors in my scenario. Sorry if it is a dupe.

In the past I asked suggestions on equipment and topics sequence for correct learning music production. It was very helpful (Thank you very much @pcrecord !!!!). Now I moved from Brazil to Frankfurt/Germany and I am preparing myself to buy a set of speakers. I use to work with Yamaha HS5, in Brazil the price was ok at the time. Now here in Germany I have access to a broader set of brands and the prices are ok to higher quality equipments. I found the following:

€ 150 - Tannoy Reveal 802
€ 150 - KRK Rokit RP5 G4
€ 235 - KRK Rokit RP8 G4
€ 259 - Yamaha HS8
€ 271 - Yamaha MSP5
€ 435 - Neumann KH 80 DSP
€ 577 - Neumann KH 120 A
> € 700 - Yamaha MSP7 (to buy this I would have to find a Yamaha dealer, pretty hard to find)

The application will be basic in-line recording, mixing, music production with VST. My room is not treated and will not so soon be (means +5 years to have space and treatment in a small room like 16m² or less). I have beginner ears and experience. But I will not buy speakers much more than maybe once every 10 years. This is not an investment that will be frequently be upgraded (like a mobile phone or something more disposable). I am looking for a good cost benefit and long lasting quality device. My target expense is running around € 500 for a pair.

I personally like Yamaha sounding because I am used with the brand even with non professional speakers in my home theater set (NS-P40, NS-B210, etc). But I as well miss some basses. That is why I am considering moving from HS5 experience to HS8 (imagining that a bigger speaker will have more present bass).

I thought about the KRK Rokits because I had personal experience in a studio in Curitiba/Brazil, where the recording operator and the main mixer/mastering professional were using KRK RP8 G2 for their tasks. But after viewing a series of youtube reviews and reading texts, I noticed that KRK have too uneven low ends, too colored. As well I saw a very prolific music teacher and youtuber using Tannoy Reveal as main speakers, he is a professional and he is using a cheap monitor. Am I then, as lame as I am, thinking too much?

Thank you and best regards.

(obs.: if anybody here is from Frankfut, let's have a chat!!)

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Profile picture for user amadeustm

amadeustm Fri, 10/11/2019 - 12:00

yeah, but at least they fit my table, and the exchange grands me some bucks to buy the rest of the setup. i still need the audio interface and a mic.

but i will not trust anything for mixing before treating the room. was very, very helpful the talk. i always have great support from you guys.

i was wondering, do you guys have any material you mixed that i could hear? @pcrecord @kmetal

thanks!!

Profile picture for user miyaru

miyaru Mon, 10/21/2019 - 13:44

I have a small room too, 4,5 meters by 2,5 meters, and use Presonus Eris E8 - 8" monitors. Because I have a problematic room, I use Sonarworks reference 4 software to correct problems. This works not 100% but goes a long way, and will set you back €300,=. For that money you get the software for your monitors, and fair amount of sorts and brands of headphones, and a measering mic that is callibrated for the software. This might help a bit to avoid bass buildup. Even thought bass build up sounds atractive to some, it won't help you to get a good mix in the end......

Check out: https://www.sonarworks.com/reference?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs62l5Juu5QIViZ3VCh0HJQvKEAAYASAAEgJBkfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

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kmetal Mon, 10/21/2019 - 15:52

miyaru, post: 462413, member: 49780 wrote: I have a small room too, 4,5 meters by 2,5 meters, and use Presonus Eris E8 - 8" monitors. Because I have a problematic room, I use Sonarworks reference 4 software to correct problems. This works not 100% but goes a long way, and will set you back €300,=. For that money you get the software for your monitors, and fair amount of sorts and brands of headphones, and a measering mic that is callibrated for the software. This might help a bit to avoid bass buildup. Even thought bass build up sounds atractive to some, it won't help you to get a good mix in the end......

Check out: https://www.sonarworks.com/reference?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs62l5Juu5QIViZ3VCh0HJQvKEAAYASAAEgJBkfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Ive been curious how your mixes are translating lately with sonarworks. Also have you entered the samplitude give away contest here yet??

Profile picture for user miyaru

miyaru Tue, 10/22/2019 - 03:09

Hello Kyle, and all others of course! I have entered the Samplitude give away, how could one not do so, it is a great give away!!!!

Kyle, you ask me how do mixes translate lately. Well I made one complete mix, which I send in here on the forum, with the stems provided.

https://recording.org/threads/mix-exercise-part-1-session-preparation.64650/page-2 on this page there iare two mixes from me on the song.

What I can say about Sonarworks: works well, behaves well in the population of other audio software in my PC. Mixes come out more transparent, more focused. The lows are tighter, bass build up because of the corners get supressed, and the mid an high range seem to be so muh clearer to me. For tracking there is a no latency setting, and for mixing a non phase setting. I also bought two cheap Samson Headphones, which have a profile for Sonarworks, so me and a co-worker can benifit from Sonarworks without having to spent money on another Beyer Dynamic DT 770 pro which I already had.
I'm convinced the sound could be better if my room was fully treated, but for a room what it is now it sounds more then OK.
In the futere I want to treat the corners with Auralex corner traps and see what that does.

When you start using Sonarworks, things sound thin and basslight, but that is normal for a room like mine where there is not much space behind the speakers and being in corners. After a while I found it was less fatiquing to listen to. The messurement mic in the package is nice too.

Due to extreme private bussiness, I never came to try the package that you pointed me too, which was free of cost - I'm sorry!

All in all, I would not wan't to be without Sonarworks anymore!!!!

pcrecord Tue, 10/01/2019 - 07:23

amadeustm, post: 462271, member: 32801 wrote: That is why I am considering moving from HS5 experience to HS8 (imagining that a bigger speaker will have more present bass).

Why don't you just add their subwoofer instead, you'll get far more bass and lower frequencies than the HS8 can produce.
Also note that the HS series need about a meter from the wall to develop lowend content. if you don't have that space (this is my case), then you definetly need their sub !
I got the HS8 first and was low on bass to my taste and added the sub.. now it's the perfect setup for me..
I'm guessing the HS5 and Sub would also be a very good setup.

pcrecord Tue, 10/01/2019 - 08:00

Oh sorry, when you said moving from, I thought you already had them..
In that case, just know that the HS5 are very good and you would need a big room to feel the need to go with the HS8.
My place is small and I'm not at all regretting my HS8, but if you have bass craving ears like mine, a sub is a must.. ;)

Profile picture for user kmetal

kmetal Tue, 10/01/2019 - 08:05

Hey there, i had a buddy stationed in Germany for a couple years, ive heard its a lot of fun!

Ive mixed on hs8's, and compared rokit5 (gen3), hs5, and the reveals, at guitar center one afternoon.

Yamaha has a good handle on the mid range, which is the most critical to get right generally speaking. I found the mixes i did on hs8's translated well, and stood up over time. Yamaha doesnt have the most detail or depth in the top, so super detailed stuff may go by unheard. This is less of a problem since your not tracking live instruments where squeaks and hums can be nasty surprises.

I feel the hs5's plus the yamaha sub, is a better option than just a pair of 8's, and a comparable price. Reason being is your allowing each speaker (and amp) to do less work, and focus on a specific range. Clear mids from the 5's and bass from the woofer. With the 8's your asking alot from the 8" cone- articulate mids and accurate bass, and its got to compromise, especially at this price point.

A dedicated sub lets you place the sub physically where it sounds best and tweak its level and crossover to optimize its response. This is something you cant do on the hs8's alone. You may also be able to switch the sub on and off (with a power strip or footswitch) depending how its connected, or if the sub passes signal to the tops while powered off.

With the rokits, the new g4 has been completely redesigned. Supposedly according to their product manager they have decided to aim for a flat response this time, instead of the typical scooped mid sound of previous gen rokits. One of the ways they managed costs of the improved cabinet and drivers, is to incorporate dsp crossovers, and eq, instead of analog components for these.

It may be worth listening to the new krk to see if they exhibit a more clear mid range and better overall response.

I didn't like the the reveals when i heard them. I felt they sounded "cheap" and didn't project anything useful for mixing, or sound good for general listening.

Neumann monitors have gotten good reveiws, id heavily investigate those, especially if your planning on a single pair of speakers.

Fwiw for my interim home studio, im opting hs5's/sub, and looking heavily into rokit5 gen 4, for my secondary set. I never liked the tweeters on the older krk's. I also have a pair of alesis monitor one's mk3, for a third (scooped type) reference. Its worth noting the gen3 krk rokit8's are priced the same as the new gen rokit5's, right now, at least in the states.

(Sorry i typed this as you guys had already responded)

pcrecord Tue, 10/01/2019 - 08:09

When it was time to buy new monitors, I didn't try many before I bought the HS8 because I got them at a very low price. Brand new at 50% if I remember.
So I just build up with the sub afterward and never looked back ;)

The MSPs seems very nice too. Having the bass port in the front instead of the back is certainly a +. (specially if you are near a wall)
But I never heard them.. you need to go with your ears and what makes you mix better.

Profile picture for user zerosin

zerosin Sat, 12/14/2019 - 17:52

For what it's worth, every KRK I've had so far has has manufacturing issues. The caps could also be of better quality. I've attached a pic of my Rokit 6 that I was recapping with Nichicon audio grade caps after hearing an occasional hissing from the one pictured. Turns out one of the main caps didn't even get soldered down properly. The post was loose in one hole. They gooped black sticky stuff all over the insides to keep that crappy stuff from falling out. If it wasn't for the goop, the cap would have fell right out. So I think KRK knows what's going on. NOT COOL!

My Rokit 10 had a molex connector that was never pushed all the way down. After a few years the amp started cutting in and out. Took it apart and found the connector, obviously, not pushed down properly. NOT vibrated out. Well, yes it vibrated out a bit because it was never properly seated. KRK=crappy quality control.

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amadeustm Tue, 10/08/2019 - 03:36

Hey man, @pcrecord I saw the HS8 in promotion (from 290 to 230) and I bought one speaker. whatever, lets mix in mono! haha just kidding. of course it will be a pair, but they only had one unit. as soon as more units arrive at this price i will buy the second.

but i must be honest to give you guys reason, HS8 is too gigantic to my room. the good thing is to have some more bass meanwhile i dont have the subwoofer (if I ever buy one). but it is enormous. i overestimated the size of my desk. this monitor is maybe bigger than the ones they had in the studio i used to work a few years ago. but now it is done. with time and patience i will do room treatment and focus on finding a new place to live in which I have a nice room to work inside, with enough space to place the speakers (a room with a minimum of 4 meters wide, considering distance from walls being >1.5m each).

But am I calculating it right? HS8 plays 38Hz - 30KHz. For hearing properly 38Hz I will need a distance of 8.9 meters (1130 feet / 38 Hz = 29 feet ~ 8.9 meters)? So I need a room with 9 meters long or 4.5m (considering the wave goes to the wall and comes back)?

How is this different than the HS5 or even the subwoofer? (HS5 that plays 54Hz - 30kHz, where 54Hz needs 6.3 meters, the subwoofer plays 22Hz - 160Hz, where 22Hz needs 15.6 meters)
It is just room size or is it as well minimum listening volume level?

I am a little lost and now thinking that I am totally wasting my money on the HS8. And I cannot figure out how 2x HS5+sub could fit any small room (3x3m).

thanks anyway! cheers!(y)

pcrecord Tue, 10/08/2019 - 04:51

amadeustm, post: 462303, member: 32801 wrote: But am I calculating it right? HS8 plays 38Hz - 30KHz. For hearing properly 38Hz I will need a distance of 8.9 meters (1130 feet / 38 Hz = 29 feet ~ 8.9 meters)? So I need a room with 9 meters long or 4.5m (considering the wave goes to the wall and comes back)?

Don't forget the HS have rear bass port, so I think you should calculate the distance to the wall and back.

Profile picture for user kmetal

kmetal Tue, 10/08/2019 - 11:33

amadeustm, post: 462303, member: 32801 wrote: Hey man, @pcrecord I saw the HS8 in promotion (from 290 to 230) and I bought one speaker. whatever, lets mix in mono! haha just kidding. of course it will be a pair, but they only had one unit. as soon as more units arrive at this price i will buy the second.

but i must be honest to give you guys reason, HS8 is too gigantic to my room. the good thing is to have some more bass meanwhile i dont have the subwoofer (if I ever buy one). but it is enormous. i overestimated the size of my desk. this monitor is maybe bigger than the ones they had in the studio i used to work a few years ago. but now it is done. with time and patience i will do room treatment and focus on finding a new place to live in which I have a nice room to work inside, with enough space to place the speakers (a room with a minimum of 4 meters wide, considering distance from walls being >1.5m each).

But am I calculating it right? HS8 plays 38Hz - 30KHz. For hearing properly 38Hz I will need a distance of 8.9 meters (1130 feet / 38 Hz = 29 feet ~ 8.9 meters)? So I need a room with 9 meters long or 4.5m (considering the wave goes to the wall and comes back)?

How is this different than the HS5 or even the subwoofer? (HS5 that plays 54Hz - 30kHz, where 54Hz needs 6.3 meters, the subwoofer plays 22Hz - 160Hz, where 22Hz needs 15.6 meters)
It is just room size or is it as well minimum listening volume level?

I am a little lost and now thinking that I am totally wasting my money on the HS8. And I cannot figure out how 2x HS5+sub could fit any small room (3x3m).

thanks anyway! cheers!(y)

Im not an expert with acoustic calculations. One thing to keep in mind is the height and width of the room, the cubic footage/cubic meters. A room doesnt have to have the same length as the wavelength of the lowest frequency the speaker can reproduce to be accurate. Some famous small room ratios, like the ones from sepmeyer, are well under 25ft in lenght. And these were determined to be ratios with the statistically best low end frequency distribution. If your room is 3m x 3m, its going to be difficult to get good bass response since its a square, and likely has a lower ceiling. Bass trapping cannot be stressed enough.

This is where bass trapping comes in. It traps the energy that would otherwise come back out of phase and cause interference.

The advantage to a pair of 5s plus a sub, is you can locate the sub anywhere in the room, ie where is has the best low frequency response. You also have a level control for it, and an adjustable crossover, which further help you tailor the response in the room. The 5 inch speaker cones give you a more articulate mid range than the 8s would due to their size, and the fact that the 8s also have to reproduce bass. The seperate sub also allows you to shut off the subs and check just the mids, assuming the model passes signal while off.

Its your call as to weather the 8s are too much for your room and if the deal was actually worth it. I never heard my mackie hr8 mk2s low end accurately until i moved them from a 12x13 room to a 12x22 sized room. Its one of the few tines the guy at guitar center was actually right! He told me to get the hr6s because the 8s had too much power for the room.

You may want to consider a mixcube to double check the mids in your mix which cant just be bandpassed like lows can. You also will want to experiment heavily with speaker location and the eq switches on the back.

There is school of thought that in small rooms speakers should be placed right up against the front wall for best bass response. Not sure this applies to rear ported speakers. Speaker stands will help you move them around to the best spot.

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