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anonymous 4 September 2004

I'm in a bind, and figure there's some smarties on here who have recording experience and can perhaps work me through this issue.

Currently working with a digi002, I have 8 simultaneous channels available. This records at 24/96. I'm wanting to record 16 channels at once, so I looked into the Alesis Ai3 unit which connects via ADAT on the Digi002. The first issue encountered with this setup is that ADAT only allows for 48k, not 96...not sooo big of an issue really tho. The Alesis unit has it's own ad/da converters, but are limited by the ADAT's restrictions. I'd like to get the same converters being used for all of the channels anyhow, and don't want to be restricted by ADAT. I was looking into A/D converters, and Apogee seem to be the best of the best right now with their a/d conversion as well as word clock (the new Big Ben). The second problem I encountered is the fact that I have no way of hooking up an Apogee a/d converter if I'm already using the ADAT for the Alesis unit, and also there's the issue of being restricted even more with ADAT since the Apogee can get such a high kHz going (up to 192 I believe).

I thought 'well maybe I can get a second digi002 and daisy chain it somehow so I can use 16 channels simultaneously AND use the Apogeea/d converters'. apparently Digidesign does not support daisy chaining of digi002's. The only thing I can do in terms of upgrading the a/d converters is using only the 8 channels supplied in the 002r, and using something like an Apogee rosetta800 which has a lesser quality clock than that of the new ad16x, but still quality nonetheless. It also has d/a conversion which is nice for mixing.

So the basic issue is that I'm restricted to 8 channels with this setup. I really enjoy Pro Tools, but if the only way I can get a solid 16 channels utilizing Apogee converters to the max, it seems as though I'd have to upgrade to the HD unit, which seems atrocious. Is this really my only solution if I wish to stay with pro tools?

How about if I didn't HAVE to use Pro Tools, and just went with something like Nuendo. .what's a hardware setup where I can have:

-16 channels i/o
-ability to use all 16 channels of an Apogeea/d converter/word clock

onboard preamps aren't necessary, but are definitely a bonus if they are worthwhile.

Thanks

Comments

doulos21 Sat, 09/04/2004 - 06:30

here is a great idea buy an all in one hard disk recorder with 24 tracks at 96k with firewire dump the recorded tracks into pro tools to mix with this way you bypass all of the digi converters and can still mix in pro tools to the total allowed96k track mix i think its 16 tracks at 96 k but i could be wrong also this is cheaper then buying apogee gear but if you do buy apogee gear later you could then use all 16 converters off the apogee and still mix in pro tools also you could use the hard disk for live venues and take the tracks back to mix in pro tools since your in a band an all you would get more use then just a studio converter

ghellquist Sat, 09/04/2004 - 11:06

Hi mike.

Sorry to say it but you are stuck in the corner by Digidesign. You cannot use two interfaces in any way whatsoever, and the max you can get is from the 002.

This "lock people in" attitude is what made me starting looking for other solutions. There are quite a few alternative hardware and software solutions available in the market. I decided to leave PT LE and went for Samplitude instead. As good sound as PT (better if you ask some including me), and quite as useful.

Now, even if you want to stick with PT you can still record things using another application and other hardware. Some other programs will let you use your 002 concurrently with other hardware in order to reach your channel count (not always easy, and I´ve only read about it, never done it, so don´t ask me too much).

Once the wav files are there you can simply import them into a session in PT and work from there onwards. And now the limit is 32 channels. So adding that extra overdub here and there can be done in PT without problem. In order to do it you should keep your 002, otherwise PT will not run at all (yet another thing that made me annoyed).

Just to very clear: I like PT LE and would probably love a true PT if I had the money.

Anyway, just sharing my ideas.

My current setup is:
Motu 828 mkII (my guess, comparable to Digi converters).
External 8ch preamp, Line Audio Design OMP8
Samplitude, see
http://

anonymous Sat, 09/04/2004 - 11:07

Why buy an all in one hard disk recorder? I intend on using my computer, and using my great analog board. The issue is the quality of the converters...I highly doubt some hard disk recorder's a/d converters would be any better than those in the digi002 or any standard recording device. I'm not sure what live venues or portability has anything to do with what I asked. I'm in a band apparently? I didn't know this...I run a studio.

anonymous Sat, 09/04/2004 - 11:09

ghellquist wrote: Hi mike.

Sorry to say it but you are stuck in the corner by Digidesign. You cannot use two interfaces in any way whatsoever, and the max you can get is from the 002.

This "lock people in" attitude is what made me starting looking for other solutions. There are quite a few alternative hardware and software solutions available in the market. I decided to leave PT LE and went for Samplitude instead. As good sound as PT (better if you ask some including me), and quite as useful.

Now, even if you want to stick with PT you can still record things using another application and other hardware. Once the wav files are there you can simply import them into a session in PT and work from there onwards. And now the limit is 32 channels. So adding that extra overdub here and there can be done in PT without problem. In order to do it you should keep your 002, otherwise PT will not run at all (yet another thing that made me annoyed).

Just to very clear: I like PT LE and would probably love a PT if I had the money, but I like my current solution just a tad better.

Anyway, just sharing my ideas.

My current setup is:
Motu 828 mkII (my guess, comparable to Digi converters).
External 8ch preamp, Line Audio Design OMP8
Samplitude, see
http://

I'm not exactly sure how this deals with my problem? I'm looking for 16 live tracks, not 32 mixable tracks. Looks like I'm better off just figuring this out by myself. thanks.

ghellquist Sat, 09/04/2004 - 11:16

>> I'm not exactly sure how this deals with my problem? I'm looking for 16 live tracks, not 32 mixable tracks. Looks like I'm better off just figuring this out by myself. thanks.

You are right. It does not deal with your problem. The alternatives are to:

-- get a full PT system (perhaps a used system).
-- PT LE with 8 channels through 002, 8 through Adat : limit is 48kHz, 8 of the channels through the 002 converters
-- leave PT LE altogether and use other software, perhaps keeping the 002 if you like it.
-- wait for Digidesign to come with a new solution (don´t hold your breath).

Gunnar

anonymous Sat, 09/04/2004 - 12:14

the whole second half of my questioning was just this....what solutions ARE out there outside of pro tools that will allow me to run this....here's the quote from my post:

How about if I didn't HAVE to use Pro Tools, and just went with something like Nuendo.....what's a hardware setup where I can have:

-16 channels i/o
-ability to use all 16 channels of an apogee a/d converter/word clock

onboard preamps aren't necessary, but are definately a bonus if they are worthwhile.

AudioGaff Sat, 09/04/2004 - 12:53

I'm kind of shopping for a new multi input and output interface myself. The Digdesign 002 just doesn't cut it and the lack of WC or ADAT sync and not being able to a second 002 makes it incomplete for my needs. Scope out the RME 9652 PCI or the outboard Digiface. Three ADAT I/O + one S/PDIF meant to be used with external converters. In S/MUX mode you get higher sample rates with 12-Ch. I am seriously considering it myself. Or two MOTU 828MKII's for a total of 16-analog I/O and 16-ch ADAT I/O with 2-ch preamps..

doulos21 Sun, 09/05/2004 - 04:18

Why buy an all in one hard disk recorder? I intend on using my computer, and using my great analog board. The issue is the quality of the converters...I highly doubt some hard disk recorder's a/d converters would be any better than those in the digi002 or any standard recording device. I'm not sure what live venues or portability has anything to do with what I asked. I'm in a band apparently? I didn't know this...I run a studio.

the converters are definitely better in a 24 track hard disk vs the 002 i miss read your post cause it was around 4 am bind band
etc.
you can still use your computer by importing the files after the tracking stage i can think of several reasons it would be benificital

1. the converts are flat out better
2 you would have a backup of your entire project on a seperate drive
3 you would listen with your ears on the tracks instead of staring at a computer screen
4. stand alone hard disk will be more stable then the 002
5 you wouldnt have to go through the pres of the 002 to get track counts so you would hear all of your "great" analog board instead of some great board through a crappy digi002 pre
6. the cost of a good stand alone hard disk will cost around the same as a 002
7. you could open yourself up to do pro quality live recording
8. you could upgrade all 24 inputs to top quality conversion and never be stuck in this situation again
9. you could upgrade later and get a second hard disk and record upto 48 tracks at 96k without any problem

so why should you lets review
better conversion now with the ability to upgrade to any converters in the future already have a seperate hard disk of all your tracks better stability portability and compatability you wont have to worry about your 002 being to sluggish not having to use pres with cheap converters to get the full use of 16 tracks 18 if you happen to be able to run spidf as well

thats all i can think of for now but i am sure there are more reasons im over looking

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