Why?

Did ya buy it after reading all the BAD things people have to say about them just to prove something?

Oh well.....its your money.

Any clue as to why its so cheap???

Any at all?

Davedog wrote: Why?

Did ya buy it after reading all the BAD things people have to say about them just to prove something?

Oh well.....its your money.

Any clue as to why its so cheap???

Any at all?

No actually. I bought this item 4 days ago and asked members on here about its quality yesterday. Im not in the business of prooving too many things.

how 'bout this revelation...

perhaps instead of commenting on how badly my money was spent, obviously, why aren't there any suggestions as to what I COULD buy with my 500$ that's comparable and will be something everyone "approves" of. Just me but if I had the knowledge I'd share it instead of hoarding it.

I think the point is, why are you asking about it after you already plunked down the money for one? Just bad timing?

You won't find many Behringer fans here, and I won't try to contradict them, but if you ordered this because you think it will meet your needs, then go for it! Learn to use it as best you can, focus on the music, and get everything you can out of it. It will do a better job mixing than no mixer at all (which is what I assume you have today). So what if it is not top quality, you should still be able to learn a lot with it and maybe upgrade someday when you are ready and have the $$.

BTW, I don't think anyone here is "hoarding" information - they are just scratching their heads a bit about where you are coming from.

Oh-boy!!! I'm gettin' my popcorn ready!!!

MW

Yeah, pretty much just bad timing I quess. I thought I had researched the product enough and read enough reviews. From my research I gathered that 8 out of 10 people who bought it, loved it and the other 2 well I assumed just bought bad boards. It happens...even with the best..mackie...etc

The good news is...
it IS my first board
i dont run a million dollar studio
and If the worst comes of it I can always get a refund! or exchange it for a better board

so I guess the only question I have now is what type of board is widley appreciated for under 500$?

(Dead Link Removed)

What exactly do you plan to do with the board once you get it? (What will you be plugging into and out of it?)

ive use a smaller version of that mixer. its not great....its not horrible. i put up some songs on here before using that very mixer... remy and few other people liked the sound of my mixes. so dont strain urself with what people say sometime.

BUT! if you are wanting to do multitrack recording....not such a good idea getting this mixer and should of gone with the firewire interface fo sho.

heheheh... sorry, bro... I just can't resist. You've opened the door...

UCoVi wrote: MW

Yeah, pretty much just bad timing I quess. I thought I had researched the product enough and read enough reviews. From my research I gathered that 8 out of 10 people who bought it, loved it and the other 2 well I assumed just bought bad boards. It happens...even with the best..mackie...etc

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! That's just TOOO funny.... I got tears in my eyes! Mackie and best in the same sentence!

Dayam bro... you're killing me! That's some funny shit! My sides are hurtin' from laughing so hard!

The good news is...
it IS my first board
i dont run a million dollar studio
and If the worst comes of it I can always get a refund! or exchange it for a better board

Lemme know how quick that refund check comes, will ya!?!

so I guess the only question I have now is what type of board is widley appreciated for under 500$?

Sorry to bust on ya so hard... most of it's really in good natured fun, though.

Hans has got the bad rep from several things...
Copyright theft of designs
Cheap substandard parts
Low tolerance parts
Forced slave labor to build the gear
Failure to pay import tariffs
Inconsistent quality control
Poor warranty repair/service
Lack of dealer responsibility/support

(Just to name a few things)

The Smackie VLZ's are getting good press for the budget market. I hate the EQ's, but since yer' just starting out with tracking and mixing, you could do worse... not by much... you could use Hans' Hack's...

I'm an A&H fan. The pre's are decent and the EQ's.... well, at least A&H does have one.

So what exactly is your recording medium that you're going to use with this console?

Pro tools on a Mac.

[quote=UCoVi]how 'bout this revelation...

perhaps instead of commenting on how badly my money was spent, obviously, why aren't there any suggestions as to what I COULD buy with my 500$ that's comparable and will be something everyone "approves" of. Just me but if I had the knowledge I'd share it instead of hoarding it.[/quote
OK, I'll share...
I won't even touch on the ethics of Uli Behri69er, and how he rips off other companies' designs. That rat's been successfully sued in his OWN country (Germany) by Aphex, for starters, ripping off patents. Then there's Drawmer, Mackie, dbx, and more, to boot.
There are people here who say that the mixers sound fine. Well, I've had TOO many of those pieces of crap shoved at me by churches, A/V departments, and garage bands, all saying "this is what we got...deal with it. Alright..."
Flimsy, cheapass switches that crap out. Pots that scratch and jump like a
like a dog with fleas. NO HEADROOM!!! This is not where the groupies sit...This is what seperates the men from the boys. It's what lets the program material pass through the mixer with full dynamic transients intact. That means that drums POP through like they should and crash cymbals aren't "smeared" like peanut butter. Unreliable metering, drastic gain drops at the summing buses, panpots that don't center the image properly, connectors that act like they were made in a 3rd world country...
the list goes on.
I have a few Allen & Heaths. Some Mackies. A couple of Tascam digitals. Just sold a Neve Melbourne last year. The stuff from Beh%^$er is nothing like them. You'd be better off buying a smaller QUALITY board than something bigger with too many bells and whistles and lesser quality.
How's that for relevation?

Since you havent been here for very long I'll forgive you for inferring that ANY knowledge is withheld here for selfish reasons.

The truth is far far from that.

When you come on here and are calling Cucco out about a purchase you've already made, it can only be assumed you have read some of his tirades about B****ger gear.

Now about that other question.

What could you possibly be recording that you're going to need 18 channels all at once? I assume you're going to be using a ProTools LE system.....of course this is just an assumption.........

Now you'll have 32 channels....right? 4 subs? stereo master....thats a 3242 model......

If you're only going to record say 8 tracks at a time at the most, and you're not going to be using the board as a live PA reinforcement console,again.....WHY?

I would be VERY interested where your research was spent finding 8 out of 10 people who liked this unit.

For under $500 you could have gotten a used Mackie (not 'the best' but better than the Bword.) or a brand new Yamaha MG series whos mic pres are awfully good for the money....

Like I said its yer money.

If you use it right I'm sure it'll work well. Have you ever used a board before? Do you know about gain-staging? Phase slip with EQ? Balance? Do you have a decent interface between the mixer and the ProTools?

The title to this thread can't be understood without allusion to a conversation that Cucco and I were already having. Rather than calling him OUT, he was being called ON. He stated that if I were to post in this forum rather than the acoustic forum he would answer my question. Hence the title. It was a "flag" for him to notice.

The reason for all the channels is simply to keep my main mix without change and also have enough extra channels for other people visiting my house to toy with.

Digi rack...or Delta1010L havent decided.

OK... now we're kinda getting somewhere...

The 1010LT has 10 channels of I/O.

That means you could get 8 tracks in, and 1 stereo out -OR- 2 mono outs for monitoring. At the absolute most, you could do 5 stereo subgroups out for mix.

Typically for me it would be 2 subgroups and a couple of inserts. Don't forget a single insert takes two channels... a 2-Bus insert is 4 channels gone.

You don't have enough total I/O to do a mix that would require that size of a console. Besides, if you're using Pro Tools, the majority of the mixing will be done in the box.... unless you step up to at least an HD1... even then, you'll only have 16 channels of I/O capability, and you'll need to purchase 2 8 channel converters or a single 16 like an Aurora.

Can you see why you're being questioned on an 18 channel piece of junk?

Unless you are mainly going to track live, and pump subgroups and/or auxes to the 1010, you cannot possibly need that big of a console... either that or you're gonna quickly jump out of the budget market and become a gear slut from hell.

I'll warn ya' though... it's a slippery slope that gear slut trail is... Let this be your fair and formal warning...

I started out with a 1202, then a 1604, then a 24 8*Bus, then a GS3000 and a GL2200 AND an O2R AND an Icon and looking at a 2nd GS3000!

The bug got me fast and it's been SAVAGE!

Now I own two mobile rigs worth of gear and a complete HD3 rig and building a studio. All in the short span of less than 15 years.

It's been one hell of a spiral........

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

I know, its more tracks channels than I need...but...I just want enough to Keep a permanent mix on about 9 tracks and use the others for people to mess with when they come to jam or what not. If im thinking too much please enlighten me and guide me. I never said I was an expert, it just made sense to me. But If this is really too much I can always exchange the item for another mixer...the seller of this product has a great warranty and exhcange policy. its not from the manufacturer btw.

Okay...so you asked for the truth...can you handle the truth?? ;-)

The first question I have for you -

What is your exact intent with this mixer?

Is it for recording?

Is it for live-sound reinforcement?

Is it for a little bit of both??

Based on your other post, I'm assuming its primary role is for recording.

So, let me break it down into the absolute basics-
The mixer costs about $550, right? Let's figure the cost of stuff here:

The casing itself and the power supply and registering the power supply with UL (they did do this, right??? You'd be surprised, Behringer has a spotty record of not doing this). Could we safely assume that even if they did this all on the VERY cheap, parts and labor set them back $100 per unit?

Okay, so that leaves us $450 dollars.

That also leaves us with 24 mic inputs, several line inputs, a master section, faders galore, an EQ and effects.

Let's focus on the faders. They're 60mm faders and I assume they're not Penny and Giles or Panasonic, but let's look at associated costs -
If we were to assume that they spent $5 per fader and another $2 for the cost associated to install each fader, total being $7 times 30, we've not spent $210. That leaves us $240.

Considering absolutely nothing else, this gives us $10 per channel to spend on each mic input. This doesn't factor profit or anything else.

If those are Neutrik panel mount XLR jacks, that's $1.80 per piece (in bulk purchases of 1000). Considering there's roughly 3 per channel, that's just shy of $6 out of the $10 spent on connections alone. We're now down to spending $4 per preamp. Bear in mind, we still haven't designed and built any of the channel EQs or the master section or the effects or the master EQ.

My point here is that while every mixing console on the planet has to compromise in one way or another, this board compromises in every possible way.

I'm afraid what you're doing is buying a board that's "overbuilt" - not in the quality sense (like a Mack truck is over built) more in a "too much crap thrown together and attempted to make look pretty" kind of over built (like a Dupont Circle Prostitute...)

What happens then is that you get a board which sounds like poo, works like poo and has the resale value of poo.

My STRONG advice is, if you're recording primarily with this, get an interface with 8 to 12 decent preamps built in and call it a day. Presonus, Mackie, Motu and others offer great devices nowadays that do the recording thing (and even the live mixing thing if you can adapt to the workflow) with aplomb.

The gross misconception amongst those who are new to the recording field is that a mixer is needed for recording.

While large studios greatly benefit from a quality mixer, the key here is quality. A good mixer will set you back several thousand dollars. (The cheapest new mixer I would buy would be a Neotek and that would set you back a cool $15,000). SSLs, APIs and Neves will cost you as much as a new home.

My point here -

It's hard enough in the world of recording to not get taken in by hype and wind up spending your life savings upgrading to find bigger and better all in the pursuit of better sound. If you start off with a piece like this, you damn yourself for ever and ever.

Check out used Ramsa boards on ebay if a new console is a must. Otherwise, stick with an interface and be happy for years.

Cheers-
J.

But wait, there's more!

The preamps are not at all transparent.

The EQ is relatively pointless.

The build quality is, as Cucco said, cheap.

Right out of the box I've seen their mixers missing knobs, some with pots sitting askew in their holes, bent faders, preamps that spin around 360 degrees, etc.

I'll say this, however - If you are running it simply as a router, say to run discreet headphone sends to multiple rooms, CD tracks, returns from your DAW for tracking purposes, etc. It works. If on the other hand you expect it to be all that and more when it comes to tracking your instruments through it, you'll hear it's limitations almost immediately.

If you intended to use it for routing (and I totally advocate small mixers for that purpose), you would have been better off buying a used Mackie 1202 or similar and used your remaining cash to buy a couple 57's.

I'm a dumbass.

The post I made above was made without even realizing that there was a first page to this whole thing. My bad.

Anyway - you've received some good advice so far and then mine and Ben's breakdown of the parts...

FWIW, the reason I type "Beh***ger" instead of the full name is simple.

If you google "Cucco" this Recording.org comes up a lot. If you google the "B" word Recording.org comes up a lot. I don't want someone pulling up pages with my name and their name by a google search, etc. IOW, I don't want any ties to that company even if just having typed it in a response.

I'd also have to question the 8 out of 10 people. No, instead of questioning them, I'd prefer to bitch slap them.

The reality is, most people who buy mixing consoles (B crap) because they don't know what they're doing. They buy the B crap and it suits them just fine. If you ever want to elevate yourself past that point, you'll probably want to listen to the advice from these guys here.

Yeah, but Ucovi was originally looking for your input specifically!

Not to denigrate the posts by Davedog, Moonbaby, MadMax, et. al.
of course!

I'm a dumbass as well, I saw Cucco's post and just jumped right in.

Polly want a cracker???

UCoVi wrote: ....Got a "B***inger", as I've noticed is the lingo, ordered and will be here tomorrow. Anyone have any experience with this model or know anyone who does?

EuroDesk SL3242 Pro : 499$

Well...I noticed that the $499 price from MF is for a refurbished board. So someone has experience not only with this model, but with the particular board you will be getting. The experience was ... somewhat limited in time. Best of luck.

BTW I found this out because I was looking up prices to make a point. When you are buying on a strict budget, I've found that it's best not to do too much "buying for the future." This is what you did when bought 32 channels instead of 8 or 12 or 16 or 24 or whatever you really need right now. I think you made a mistake buying the board. That may not be true, but if it is, a smaller board would have been a cheaper mistake. And even if you find the board usable - by the time you really need 32 channels you will want to upgrade.

Don't feel too bad. I've fallen into the "It's so cheap! How could I go wrong?" trap before." I can remember the day I yanked that Behringer compressor out of a live vocal channel and it was like someone had turned the "suck" switch off. I'm sure others here have done the same thing. Education is expensive. You just bought $499 worth.

BobRogers wrote: ....it was like someone had turned the "suck" switch off.

I knew I had seen one of those switches somewhere....ah yes, it must have been on a Be***nger. But wait, it couldn't have been. They're stuck in suck mode.

Hmm...maybe it was on a Mackie.

well, it came today and of course I removed it from the package, inspected for durability, quality of knobs, faders, buttons etc. Everything "appears" to be a lot more solid than I expected after all the wonderful praise from you guys...lol

Anywho the sound is very good, virtually NO noise AT ALL, surprised there too...
Effects on the board sound VERY good, not that I will use them or anything.
The only thing that will make me return this board within the next week is how much headroom I get out of it when I've got the whole band and drums running through it.
Im no expert in sound engineering but this board isn't horrible. I've personally heard alot better, but for 550$ (new BTW not refurb) I don't notice any immediate depreciating factors leading me to a return/exchange.

Now if I eat my words when the band comes over then I will bow in solace and never again mention the "B" word on here and then get myself something better.

Hey, Jeremy:
What's wrong with the hookers on DuPont Circle? Where's their switch?

A person can't usually be convinced once they've made up their mind. As your ears get better, you start to want more and wonder why you can't bleed it from the gear you have. It's like me trying to tell my kids that (insert action) is not such a great idea. They do it anyway and then say "Sorry dad. you were right.". What do you do? People gotta figure it out for themselves if their not willing to take advice from people who have been down that road before.

By the way. This is no slag toward the original poster. It's just an observation. I've made my fair share of foolish purchases. It's an expensive road to travel but sometimes we just have to do it.

Tell ya what..... If ya live anywhere near a real gear store of any kind that sells oh say....Yamaha... Borrow one of the small MG series boards for a day. Hell, rent it for a few bucks. Doesnt have to be any more than 6 channels. Plug in six mics....or whatever you're going to be plugging in. Run some signal through em for a bit. Let your ears get used to the sound coming through. Then plug into the B*********R. Run the same program or signals.

Then decide. If you have a week, its worth your time to do something like this.

There will be a difference.

You've got to understand that the majority of the answers/opinions/suggestions on this site come from people who are professional, semi-professional or quasi-professional. If you ask for the opinion of a pro like Cucco, you are going to get it.

So, when you get responses from people here, you've got to realize where they are coming from. These are people who likely wouldn't buy a single pre-amp for $500 much less buy a mixing board with 24 of them... and justifiably so. Not out of snobbery, but out of experience and taste.

The B-word products are not used by many professionals (read primary occupation). They are used mostly by beginners and people on a budget (hence the B-word).

I don't often see beginners or hobbyists posting any answers to questions on this forum...which kinda stinks because a question like yours would probably be best answered by them since you seem to be in the same situation. They would likely have the same expectations/knowledge as you and be able to give you their thoughts/impressions were after using it for a while.

Most people who rate a product on web sites like Musicians Friend are rating it after a couple days or weeks of use. They haven't gotten deep into it and don't really know what it's good or not good for.

So, here's what we need you to do. Use this mixer for 6 months, then come back and post a report on it. Let us know what you think of it, how it's filling or not filling your needs. You may love it or hate it or simply be happy with it. But that sort of report would be invaluable to new members here.

Maybe we should have a Gear Report Card forum where people post information about gear they've aquired. Then instead of people asking is this good or is that good, they can go there and read all about it. Of course there would have to be some set testing/reporting methods set up but I think it could be useful.
Oops...kinda got off topic there.

Anyway, if it works for you, that's all that matters. When you find that you want something more, come on back and we'll help you out.

JFTR, I do own a B-word product...their 4 channel headphone amp. It does what I need it to do but it also has some shortcomings that I have to live with until I'm ready to buy something else.

E-gads that was long!

moonbaby wrote: Hey, Jeremy:
What's wrong with the hookers on DuPont Circle? Where's their switch?

Hmmm...never been to DuPont Circle, eh?
Well...their switch is, um, how do you say - taped in the down position. Let's just say - you get a LOT more than you pay for. (Don't know from personal experience- of course;-) )

OK, seeing as how this thread's still alive and kickin'...

Ucovi,

The board you've just received will pass audio signals, that's a given.
It will amplify microphones and send signals from point 'A' to point 'B'.
It will do all the things other low priced budget mixers can do, as mentioned by my esteemed fellow RO members.

I just want to give you a stronger technical basis for our lack of appreciation for Beh****er mixers. I do not know if my fellow RO members have performed their own tests in the following manner, but I was bored one night at work and did it myself, 4 or 5 years ago.

Here's what I did:
I grabbed 5 different mixers / rack mounted preamps off the shelf in my workshop. I grabbed my trusty laptop that I used to run SMAART-Pro on.
I grabbed a handy dandy Neutrik MR1 noise generator and all necessary cables to run between it, the preamps, and the laptop.
Using Pink Noise, I ran an identical but split signal - one directly into the laptop, the other through each preamp in turn, and compared each to the direct signal.

Here's how each fared on a scale of 1 through 5 -
5 being the lowest quality, most affected signal;
1 being the most transparent.

1) Earthworks 1022
2) Presonus M80
3) Mackie 1604 VLZ
4) Beh****er (MX? Can't remember the exact model, 8 channel Eurorack)
5) Presonus BlueTube

Of course, this was not a true laboratory test, just me bored in my workshop - but it is the number one reason I will continue to warn folks against both the BlueTube and Beh*****r mixers.

Now, I must admit - I have two 4ch. B**r***er compressors in use at RC, but they are in the headphone signal chain for limiting purposes (I'm probably the only person around that feels the need to limit HP's - call me kooky!), and they have been saving musicians ears in our studio since the day we opened.

In all honesty, that board for the time being will do exactly what you expect it to do.
When you have gotten everything you can out of it and are ready to step up, you'll know it, and you'll probably make a big leap.
Enjoy what you've got for now, have fun, and mix it up!
And when the band shows up, watch their eyes light up at the sight of the huge mixer you just got!

Edit>[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.jblpro.c…"] Smaart Pro Link.[/]="http://www.jblpro.c…"] Smaart Pro Link.[/]

popcorn anyone? buttered, salted...blackened?

Enjoying the show?
We need to fast forward to the end of this one, I think.

I'd like my corn a little burnt on the edges please, sir.
And yes, both buttered and salted.

That isn't one of those ballringer boards you got your muddy boots on is it? ;)

I was hoping I could get the last word in about the belldingle equipment. But I don't own any so I guess I am not qualified to comment on that. But if I did comment on it I, guess I would say "yea it really is a big piece of furniture."

But I don't own any.

Haha!

Actually that is none other than a Smackie SR24x4!

Close, but no cigar!

I took that picture during one of our shows at a resort located around the perimeter of the Magic Kingdom. Anyone care to take a stab at which one it might be?
Here it is expanded to make it somewhat easier:

Extra points if you can name the actual show my boot is mixing.

bent wrote: Extra points if you can name the actual show my boot is mixing.

Yanni and Kenny G do Muzak covers of Chicago and Earth, Wind and Fire??

What do I win again?

Close.

You win one point:

Here it is-------------- .

Thanks for tolerating me and my curiosity guys. I know you are all speaking from experience.

oh, BTW a buddy of mine is having $ issues right now and he's gotta a Makie Onyx 1640 that I offered 500$ for, and he said hell take it...lol

I think I'll be returning the B***inger at this point....

hell boss, that's the doll house in orlando...whenever Britney Spears got back together, she played there!

The troll and this thread have gone stale. Should of taken that $500 and bought a clue...