My suggestion if you are looking for track separation at mixdown....

To achieve the cohesive interplay of the drums and bass, these go down first with everyone else 'tracking' scratch tracks for the feel. To control the drums in a fairly live room, you'll want to erect some basic barriers to simply kick the reflections around a bit. Theres no way you'll achieve studio-like absorption or reflection so something to knock down the major nodes is needed. Packing blankets draped over office cubicle barriers will do this, as well as letting the players still see each other for communication.

Next, close mic everything thats being mic'd. The less time delay you have in the space between the source and the mic, the less likely you are to pick up odd frequencies and other things to compound your mixing later.

Above all stay focused and have fun.

Thanks for the suggestion Davedog. I haven't given much thought to the acoustics of the room yet, which is probably one of the most important aspects in this whole process, especially for the drums. I've done some reading up on the subject, but it will just come down to improvising on the spot to see what sounds best I guess.

Go to U-Haul, steal a bunch of packing blankets...

More still......

If you have access to a bass DI then use it. Micing a bass amp can be a process that, without the proper preamps, is a hit or miss situation. Its usually better in an instance such as yours, to simply take the sound off the bass itself rather than futz around trying to get the amp to sound right. The direct outs on amp heads are also iffy from brand to brand....a lot of that being due to the various impedances the manufacturers choose to build into their units. If you can achieve a good sound with this method then go for it....remember to put a load on the amps output as this can cause damage to the amp.

A clik track is a good idea if you are planning some editting and need a time signature to add or subtract later on. Be sure you make a few passes with the drummer and confirm that they can actually PLAY to a clik.

It aint that easy.

Remember that a cohesive feel to the songs, will always trump equipment quality in a basically live situation.

Track as cleanly and clearly as you can without artifacts and mixing becomes easier. Do not assign verbs or effects at tracking....use as little compression as you can....when making guide tracks with other 'live' instruments in a room with multiple open mics, think on the individual mic's patterns and place them so there is minimal bleed from these other sources. I mention this because there can be unwanted vocal ghosting on the drums you can never get rid of and may present a problem later on.

Tracking is all about the preparation to mixing which is, in reality, where the song will come alive.

Yea I was gonna say the same thing, make sure they know that if they play with a click track not only will the overall result be better sonically but it will also come quicker.

I would go with the technique of micing the kit in separate peices starting with the snare, kick, then toms, hats and overheads. Either have him or her play just the kick beats and use his knees as the cymbols and snares for time or cover the parts of the drums up so you get absolutely NO bleeding at all and then you have super clean drum tracks with tons of control. Make sure they play on time. Dont be afraid to tell them they need to play more accurately.

Scratch tracks arent always necessary if the singer has rehearsed enough. I would lay down scratch guitars first, get the kit and bass together and then do guitars and finally vocals.

I could go on forever, sorry...

But yeah have fun man, most importantly..

The guitarist could prove to be the one with the better ability to play with a click track.

Don't chisel anything in stone. Walk and talk with your people with an open mind, they know how they like to work better then anyone.

I'm gonna print out what Davedog listed. That is a procedure checklist worth keeping handy.

MediaMurder wrote:

I would go with the technique of micing the kit in separate peices starting with the snare, kick, then toms, hats and overheads. Either have him or her play just the kick beats and use his knees as the cymbols and snares for time or cover the parts of the drums up so you get absolutely NO bleeding at all and then you have super clean drum tracks with tons of control. Make sure they play on time. Dont be afraid to tell them they need to play more accurately.

Scratch tracks arent always necessary if the singer has rehearsed enough. I would lay down scratch guitars first, get the kit and bass together and then do guitars and finally vocals.

Each drum piece separately? I'm not so sure about that. Do bands actually do that? For one, we'd be there all day, and two, I'm not too concerned about bleed through on the drum tracks. I'll sacrifice that, over the cohesive feel of the drummer...he's not a drum machine for God sakes!

Ha....I think he means to say that he would mic each piece seperately in the whole kit. The drummer would play as is, but there would be a mic on each tom, on snare, kick and overheads.

Personally, I almost always stay away from individual drum mics unless my goal later is sample replacements (which it rarely is).

But...your mileage may vary.
Cheers-
J

Each drum piece separately? Do bands actually do that?

It's a very common thing for recording rock drums : close mics on
everything + overhead mics + distant mic on kick + two(or more) room
mics. 12-14 tracks for drums is quite normal. During mixing you might
not need all of it, but in case you need it it's there.

Depending on the sound they might be looking for, if acoustics are an issue, you might try modeling everything but drums and having them all play together and then add Vocals later. If they want anything MUCH better than that then they will probably want to go to a studio anyway. This is saying that they are playing in a garage or something. If the room isn't that bad, don't worry. On drums I comonly use 10 or 11 mics but you can get a great sound with 3-5 mics as well

jaydubb411 wrote: [quote=MediaMurder]

I would go with the technique of micing the kit in separate peices starting with the snare, kick, then toms, hats and overheads. Either have him or her play just the kick beats and use his knees as the cymbols and snares for time or cover the parts of the drums up so you get absolutely NO bleeding at all and then you have super clean drum tracks with tons of control. Make sure they play on time. Dont be afraid to tell them they need to play more accurately.

Scratch tracks arent always necessary if the singer has rehearsed enough. I would lay down scratch guitars first, get the kit and bass together and then do guitars and finally vocals.

Each drum piece separately? I'm not so sure about that. Do bands actually do that? For one, we'd be there all day, and two, I'm not too concerned about bleed through on the drum tracks. I'll sacrifice that, over the cohesive feel of the drummer...he's not a drum machine for God sakes!

I'm with jaydubb. Media Murder isn't talking about close miking. he's talking about recording each drum separately, read his post. If you did that drum track you would get a perfect example of a drum track that lacks GROOVE.

jaydubb411 wrote: [quote=MediaMurder]

I would go with the technique of micing the kit in separate peices starting with the snare, kick, then toms, hats and overheads. Either have him or her play just the kick beats and use his knees as the cymbols and snares for time or cover the parts of the drums up so you get absolutely NO bleeding at all and then you have super clean drum tracks with tons of control. Make sure they play on time. Dont be afraid to tell them they need to play more accurately.

Scratch tracks arent always necessary if the singer has rehearsed enough. I would lay down scratch guitars first, get the kit and bass together and then do guitars and finally vocals.

Each drum piece separately? I'm not so sure about that. Do bands actually do that? For one, we'd be there all day, and two, I'm not too concerned about bleed through on the drum tracks. I'll sacrifice that, over the cohesive feel of the drummer...he's not a drum machine for God sakes!

I'm with jaydubb. Media Murder isn't talking about close miking. he's talking about recording each drum separately, read his post. If you did that, you would get a perfect example of a drum track that lacks groove.

jaydubb411 wrote: [quote=MediaMurder]

I would go with the technique of micing the kit in separate peices starting with the snare, kick, then toms, hats and overheads. Either have him or her play just the kick beats and use his knees as the cymbols and snares for time or cover the parts of the drums up so you get absolutely NO bleeding at all and then you have super clean drum tracks with tons of control. Make sure they play on time. Dont be afraid to tell them they need to play more accurately.

Scratch tracks arent always necessary if the singer has rehearsed enough. I would lay down scratch guitars first, get the kit and bass together and then do guitars and finally vocals.

Each drum piece separately? I'm not so sure about that. Do bands actually do that? For one, we'd be there all day, and two, I'm not too concerned about bleed through on the drum tracks. I'll sacrifice that, over the cohesive feel of the drummer...he's not a drum machine for God sakes!

I'm with jaydubb. Media Murder isn't talking about close miking. he's talking about recording each drum separately, read his post. If you did that, you would get a perfect example of a drum track that lacks groove.

MediaMurder wrote:

I would go with the technique of micing the kit in separate peices starting with the snare, kick, then toms, hats and overheads. Either have him or her play just the kick beats and use his knees as the cymbols and snares for time or cover the parts of the drums up so you get absolutely NO bleeding at all and then you have super clean drum tracks with tons of control.

I play drums, and I've tried this technique. Believe me, it does not make for a cohesive groove. And that was with easy pop rock. I can't imagine asking a busier drummer to do this. It doesn't come off sounding natural at all.