in most cases 1/4 will do you just fine....keep in mind TT patch cables can be quite expensive and its rather difficult to make your own TT verses 1/4

the only real need for TT is if you have high density requirments...ie: 72 channel Neve console that has a ton of inputs and outputs.

save your money and stick with 1/4

The advantage of 1/4" plugs is that the are common and cheap. In terms of sound, there won't be any difference.

Also, in a pinch you can plug an unbalanced 1/4" guitar cable in for tracking a bass guitar, synth, etc. directly (though ideally you might want to use a direct box in between).

If you have a 1/4" longframe patchbay, you need to use longframe cables. If you use regular 1/4" TRS cables, it will eventually bend the connectors inside the patchbay and the longframe cables will not always make good connections.

If you haven't seen the difference between a 1/4" longframe cable and a standard 1/4" TRS see the picture below to see a longframe cable)

(Please notice the small tip)

It's a size difference. 1/4" longframe cables (telephone) and tt (tiny telephone) cables are similar in cost. tt is taking over in popularity because of the space savings in the rack. Other than that they are similar

(By the way, here is a link for good used patch bays - both long frame and tt)
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.flash.ne…"]Mr Patchbay[/]="http://www.flash.ne…"]Mr Patchbay[/]

Thank you all very much for your advice. I'll stick with the 1/4" units. Floodstage, I'm going to look into the longframe plugs. I have a feeling that that is what goes with these patch bays I bought on ebay.
Best Wishes, jules

Jules what brand/model is the patchbay?

Steve

Hey Steve,
They're both ADC's. Looks like now i need to figure out what to leave normal and what goes non.
Jules

If its an ADC then it is almost certain that you will need the long frame patch cables.

Good luck with the configuration.

Originally posted by scenaria:
in most cases 1/4 will do you just fine....keep in mind TT patch cables can be quite expensive and its rather difficult to make your own TT verses 1/4

the only real need for TT is if you have high density requirments...ie: 72 channel Neve console that has a ton of inputs and outputs.

save your money and stick with 1/4

Originally posted by scott_humphrey:
The advantage of 1/4" plugs is that the are common and cheap. In terms of sound, there won't be any difference.

I'm not sure I would agree with the above statements. Especially Scenaria's, which implies that the only significant reason for buying TT is to save real estate.

Having had both types, I would say that the more important difference is that Bantam/TT bays should give you a lifetime of flawless performance. Plug and unplug a cable into a 1/4" bay a few hundred times, and you start to run a high risk of a bad patch point. (Which can definitely impact the sound, which is where I differ from Scott.)

I think these are commercial grade ADC long frame 1/4" which is basically a larger scale version of TT. I would expect the long frame to be at least as rugged as the TT but I have not used them so I do not know from experience.

The 1/4 prosumer stuff like JBL and ProCo etc are another story all together (i.e. OK for lite duty at home but not for commercial use).

Steve

My statement is based on the idea that if the question is even being asked that more than likely the p-bays are not going into a "commercial grade" facility. That being said....I still feel that the cost of TT bays and the appropriate cables are simply not reasonable for the average project based studio. most project rooms wont be making 60-80 patches during a mix.

I guess the question I should have asked is if these bays were going into a commercial room or a project room? Generaly I assume if such a basic question is being asked they are probably going into a private/project room.

oops and here is where the bays are going...
"I'm putting together my home studio"

im sorry but unless you have a serious amount of cash to burn there is no place for TT's in a home studio. I would rather see the extra cash spent on the cable, connectors, mics, stands, monitors, acoustic treatments etc....

[ August 18, 2003, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: scenaria ]

Hello Everyone,
Well, these are being installed in a home project studio and they'll see fairly light use by commercial studio standards. I will say that this ADC units are built like tanks. Now after being pointed in the right direction I know that these are in fact 1/4" long frames.
I was pretty embarrassed to be asking such a basic question, but I just couldn't find an answer anywhere I looked. I sincerely want to thank you all for taking the time to help me out.
Best Wishes, Jules :c:

have fun wiring them :)

are they punchdown?

NOPE!!!! Live and learn.

practice with wire scraps before you use your good cable!!!!

I buy these things used with punchdown blocks for $250 ea. I hope you paid a lot less than that. Soldering your first patchbay is not going to be fun and you're sure to change your mind about the configuration pretty soon after you start using them (these are your first patchbays after all).

Ouch, if I were you I would sell them and get something with patchbays.

And yes the ADC's are the commercial grade PBs

having used and wired hundreds of patchbays my only advice is to stay away from punchdown patchbays....they are convenient and great for radio stations that do maybe one or 2 patches a month but for music production....the punchpoints come lose and you don't want this happening in the middle of a session. if it's a project studio i would say go with a low priced samson 1/4" patchbay. they go for about 300 dollars and each channel is switchable between normal, non normal and half normal. they last about a year or two but for that price it's ok. also be careful about wiring your own patch cables. they are not as flexible and don't last very long. real patch cables have a fiber in with the wire that makes them more flexible and rugged.

solder bays are fine as long as you take your time to think out your layout...

write it down on paper....look it over over a week or soo and try to think about "future" requirements.

When you go to wire up the bay take your time...heatshrink your wires (shield and around each cable) take your time to dress it up nicely. Also I find it easier to tie all of the shields to the bay and if you need to lift one do it at the connectors end...

work out your grounding scheme and stick with it.

a decent iron wouldnt hurt either. You can pick up a nice weller solder station for under $30 on ebay....actually ive seen em go for like $15-$20

the most important thing....work out every detail and be patient

Good advice all around.

I would just add that yu should make sure you are up to speed on soldering technique. If not practice on some scrap connectors or an old tube radio or something that no longer works.

Get soldering help if needed. The whole thing is pointless if the solder joints aren't good.

I also wanted to add that I see no reason why punchdown should work loose if they are properly dressed and strain relieved. I have never had one work loose yet.

Steve

Originally posted by sdevino:

I also wanted to add that I see no reason why punchdown should work loose if they are properly dressed and strain relieved. I have never had one work loose yet.

Steve

steve i agree 100% i see no reason either. but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen and usually at the most inapropriate times. i've witnessed it myself and it's not pretty. especially when you're on the air.

i'm not saying don't use them, i just want you to be aware that this is an issue. on soldered patchbays you can have problems as well. bad patch points, cold solder points etc. these things happen over time and also depends how much you abuse the patchbay. it's very unnerving to me to see someone pull a patchchord by the cable instead on the connector...little things like this will ruin a patchbay.

I've been following this thread with great interest, because I had a real nightmare concerning PB's, so this is just a personal reflection.

It was just a few years back when I found out that it was the patchbays that prevented me from getting real low-end punch in my recordings.

I've been using $100-300 pb's (just 1/4" though, and all cable used was Mogami.) and noticed no difference between them. Without them, however the difference was enormous, and ever since I trashed the PB's I finally can make decent recordings. It made me believe that TT PB's are the only way to go, but it doesn't seem so, reading these posts.

As sosayu2 said, I've had my fair share of cables and jacks going out on me too, both during tracking and mixing, and you don't want that.

I'm not saying that one should totally stay away from Patchbays, but it's just my experience and it will certainly be awhile before I get one of those again.

Good luck

Originally posted by sosayu2:
i'm not saying don't use them, i just want you to be aware that this is an issue. on soldered patchbays you can have problems as well. bad patch points, cold solder points etc. these things happen over time and also depends how much you abuse the patchbay. it's very unnerving to me to see someone pull a patchchord by the cable instead on the connector...little things like this will ruin a patchbay.

Good points sosayu! Thanks for the clarification.

[ August 20, 2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: sdevino ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mixopenta:
I've been using $100-300 pb's (just 1/4" though, and all cable used was Mogami.) and noticed no difference between them. Without them, however the difference was enormous, and ever since I trashed the PB's I finally can make decent recordings. It made me believe that TT PB's are the only way to go, but it doesn't seem so, reading these posts.

$100-$300 patchbays are not the commercial stuff either so that might have something to do with it. Consider that you propably do not own a commercial recording that did not use patchbays multiple times.