I don't make money from my home studio - just
a hobby. But if I did have paying customers
I'd at minimum have a sectioned-off portion
of my home.

I don't mind recording with friends and people
I know, but strangers as paying customers would be a totally different deal, and I'd want to seperate my home from my work where possible. I think my wife would demand it also.

Shane

I charge a pretty small fee to record people at my house. Luckily enough the room I record in used to be a garage so people can go in and out without going into the house. We pulled the garage door out so you cant tell it was a garage other than the cement floor. I normally charge around $75 a (long) day to record. Im recording thru a digi001 into a G4, with mackie pres and some decent mics. I plan on getting a cranesong spider by around christmas so that will cover my converters and good mic pres. After a couple distressors and royer ribbons by march (I have everything budgeted) I should be set.

The stuff I do now actually sounds suprisingly good. I get mostly punk, metal, hardcore stuff that normally gets pressed in small amounts. If you're trying to start a home studio I'd definetly recommend going after a specific "market". When punk rock bands come record at my place with my drums, amps, guitars, ect.... they get as good of a sound that they would at the local $300 a day studio with their own amps, drums, ect... So they tell all the other bands they play shows with "go record with this guy he really knows how to record punk rock". I also make deals with bands that I'll give them $50 off if they get another band to come in for atleast 2 days. So I've built up a pretty good rep with the local punk/hardcore "scene" and im the only guy those bands come record with now (mostly because of money). I normally record about 8 to 10 days a month and its basically just to build up custumers so one day i'll be able to take out a big loan and open a real studio. Good luck.

Planet red: good for you!

Not only are you getting your ass into the game, but it sounds like you are also doing a great service to your scene.

Hey,
I make a *lot* of money from my home studio. It's in my Manhattan apartment. If it's an artist (male or female singer/songwriter) then it's quite intimate, which they all seem to LOVE! If I'm recording a BAND, I cut basic tracks at our *BIG* studio in the Pocono mountains (1 1/2 hrs from NYC) and overdub at home. Usually only principals (songwriter and or singer) come at the same time; with the BAND dropping by every once in a while. I find everyone to be quite respectful of the fact that we are in my home. It's never been a problem. I reiterate; people *always* comment on how comfortable they are and how *cool* my apartment is. My wife is an amazing artist and her paintings are everywhere. It's got sort of a museum vibe in here with all of the gear and artwork. I am blessed with some great mics and pres...and light gobos that enable me to build a little vocal or acoustic guitar booth. This is *preferred* over doing these things in BIG studio. Much better communication. I'm going on and on to try and stress the point that your 'home' studio can function as an ideal recording environement.

Sincerely,
Benjy

I only record people that I have met and like. Of course, I don't make a lot of money at it like this, but that's what a day job is for...

My studio is more for songwriting and producing artists with which I have some comraderie.

I've been making decent money at home recording / producing others work ......... enough to keep me in constant upgrade mode with my gear. The folks that record here have sought me out, so they are respectful of the home environment, plus they usually get treated to the meal of the day by my wife ( who's an awesome cook! ). I've done a few demos & am working on my 2nd full length CD. I am also doing a spec deal with someone that I play with on a regular basis. He can easily sell about 2000 CD's through his site & at gigs ....... so we'll do the CD here at home then do a 50/50 with the sales - so @ $10 a CD X 2000 = $20,000, should work out pretty well. No outside studio expense other than duplication / packaging. Then I can seriously eye up that Spider!

Benjy, where are you in the Poconos and what's the studio name ( @ Dan Malsch's place??) I'm at the foot of the Poconos in Jim Thorpe. I'd love to come out & check out your space! How's the drum room?
Regards,
Tony

I'll second the emotion that a lot of artists, especially neophytes, prefer the vibe of hanging in someone's living room to the pressure of working in a mix magazine cover photo feeling every tick of the clock. I ended up devoting the 1st floor of my house to studio stuff - although I still use the kitchen for personal use as well. Having a separate bathroom for clients vs. personal is huge. The other key factors: adequate parking, reasonably quiet neighborhood (not near an emergency room or under the main flight path), and most of all: good relations with your neighbors - especially if you are not zoned for business. If you can offer something that other small home studios can't, you should have no problem making money: i.e. - a really good piano, nice sounding drum space, etc. It may also pay in the long run to talk with an acoustic consultant. There are good guys out there who will draw you up some plans for DIY acoustic improvements. Good luck!

Hey guys, I'm really enjoing this conversation... you guys have so much to tell... let's keep it rolling... :)

But there are some consequences to crossing the invisible line between a personal studio and a business, no? Insurance, zoning laws, noise control, parking availability, etc. There is a little paperwork & a few checks to write when you cross that line.

When I called my homeowner's insurance agent about the cost of a home business policy a few months ago (I'm still thinking about it...(- :D

I've been recording out of my home since 1989. When I moved, in 1993, I bought a house with a basement entrance which helped my wife deal with the "clients in my messy kitchen" syndrome. My wife and I have earned our full time living from the studio from the day we opened. Our area has progressive home business zoning laws, we go out of our way not to annoy the neighbors and yes business insurance is a necessity. My main "day" clients are corporate and ad agency voice over work. My "fun" clients are musicians and independent filmakers. I'll never be a rich man but I love what I do!

http://fp2k.redshift.com/cjogo/crystalrecording.htm

Just teach your ear--master your craft---make sure of your clients expectations (i.e. they expect a radio-ready,,, Label supported $$$ "Master" on a cheap budget) rent equipment when necessary {until you can afford }and you should be able to charge $100 per hour--we have a three song min-@ $1000 per tune

good luck --any help we can offer ??

thanks kindly cjogo

WOW, you charge $100 an hour?

People think nothing of paying their plumber or auto-mechanic $100's for quality service. Why should music be any different? If a person takes their music seriously, they shouldn't want just any hack working on it. A studio with engineer included charging less than $100/hr would seem suspect.
Keep rockin homies! :)

jeronimo $100 per hour?---You could charge less..just offer a four track cassette and two mics for $25 per hour--BUT,,,if they want maybe a tube mic, or a quality micpre, -a full MIDI system---a little editing....mastering???>>>well now you are $100 per ---On the weekends I am a photographer @ $600 per hour-----this quote always sets the precedent "purchase only what you can afford"

thanks cjogo http://fp2k.redshift.com/cjogo/crystalrecording.htm

I'm glad that this subject has finally come up. I am absolutely amazed at all the guys who are offering their studio AND their time for $20, $25,or $30/hr. Don't these people have rent or mortgages to pay? How about a car or food bills? Here in the LA market, there are so many struggling studios that a band can find 24 track Studer/Amek studios for $35/hr ( including a nice big live room). Which makes it really difficult for the home studio guys to charge $100/hr, even if they are very talented and have a nice little collection of outboard gear. So, you end up with the home studio guys advertising $10 and $15/hr rates!!! Until the market changes dramatically, I have chosen to give away my time for $0 - anything under $50/hr isn't worth the hassle of keeping tax records. I'd rather work a day job with a sensible salary and record nights and weekends. Not charging also means that I choose who I record - no pathetic gigs just to earn a buck.

Well, the only thing I could say is... while I was in L.A., I found a whole bunch of home studios for a lot under $100/h. Maybe where you are, things are different and you don't have a lot of competition. If we put my currency in Brazil as 1 to 1 with the dollar, $100/h will pay for a very good studio in my hometown. If you convert $100 to my currency, it'll pay for the best studios around... so, with my home studio, I'll charge something around $20/25/h so later when I upgrade some of the gear, I can charge $30/35. I rather charge less and have work everyday than, charge more... and find some few customers that want to pay for my work :/

Money... always a revelation! That's why I keep my room as a corporate/ad agency room during the day. My music recording is for fun/creativity and keeps me sane. The bottom line is that musicians expect to pay very little, take up a lot of time and I'm not even going to get into issues of talent (or the lack of it!) and ego. Corporate clients pay me the going rate and treat me like a business (read "with respect"). Keeping your rate competitive is great, but I've seen small studios try and buy market share and I think it's a bad strategy.

I don't know about where you guys live... or how, you live... but even in L.A. (when I was insane enought to live there :) ) you can live charging $20/h. Ok, will take longer to buy your gear and stuff. But if you have a good service, and a good price, you'll probably work full time on your studio and when you upgrade your gear, of course you can raise your price...
Just to make sure: I'm talking about HOME STUDIOS/SMALL STUDIOS ok?
That's my .02

J, don't be afraid to make a profit. If you are good, you deserve to be paid. If you are working too many hours... raise your rates. Check out what comparable studios with similar gear/facilities and talent charge and stay close to that rate. You can always cut block deals if you're feeling generous.

How much do you really spend on your studio? Come on, be honest, I won't tell your wife! If you look at the real costs and your cost of living and add in future improvements/upgrades it should be fairly clear if you can make a go of it at your current rate.

If you want to grow you've got to have good profitability, otherwise you'll always be stuck as a low-rate studio. You always need to be planning to get to the next level.

I do a lot of voice recording, fairly simple set-up. The going rate in town is $125/hr. Believe it or not, clients are suspicious of ultra low rate cards. Do good work, build trust and you'll have long term clients.

What I'm about to say is the kind of thing my dad harped on endlessly about when I was too young to care...but here it goes: Earn enough to have good insurance, save for retirement, have a family, have some nice things in life and treat yourself and spouse to a nice vacation once in a while.

By the way, I can really relate to the plummer analogy. Had one in for eight hours roughing in the studio's new bathroom. Cost me $700 for labor and was worth every penny!

Got to get back to work, good luck.

Hi Curious,
I am trying to get into the ad biz, looking for different ways to generate some income, and maybe you could shed some light on some questions I have. Please bare with me, here we go:

1. Do ad agencies usually look for one-stop studios (music, talent) or do they already have voice talents they like to use?

2. Could you describe a regular voice recording session (if such thing exists :cool: !)?

3. Would you recommend preparing a demo reel with fake ads?

Any other thought or advice will be very welcome. I don't expect to make big bucks on my side of the country but I think it's worth a try.
Thank you!

Since I do this as my day job I'll try and help ...

1. Do ad agencies usually look for one-stop studios (music, talent) or do they already have voice talents they like to use?

Many agencies will have voices in mind but you would do the session from your studio via ISDN (this can be an expensive prospect if you don't get regular work - check out the situation in your neck of the woods. Other times you wil have to choose a voice - do a web search and request demo reels from prospective voice overs and you will start to get preferences the more you use different voices. I have a list of 30-40 I use regularly.

2. Could you describe a regular voice recording session (if such thing exists :cool: !)?

Phone and bok a time. Fax the script. Dial up and start discussing ideas, directing and then recording some takes. Keep going until you get what you want, even if it means 20 takes. If the voice talent gets sniffy at being asked to keep going, don't use them again.

3. Would you recommend preparing a demo reel with fake ads?

Possibly. Try going to businesses and getting a breif from them. After this, write a commercial (take your time, avoid cliches and do something interesting with sound .... a voice shouting "come on down to Blah blah for great deals on thingummy, lots of free parking at the rear of the store" will NOT do. Check out advertising festivals (Mobius awards, London International awards, the New Yorks, etc. for examples of award winners) Make this for free and go and present it to them and see what they think. Often clients who don't want to know and are only doing this to hear a free ad will end up coming back for regular business. Then you get your demo reel. Also, enter these awards a often as possible - great way of getting the attention of a new client and keeping old clients!

Any other thought or advice will be very welcome. I don't expect to make big bucks on my side of the country but I think it's worth a try.
Thank you![/QB]

This is the kind of thing you can dip your toe into. Don't sit around losing money and waiting for the phone to ring. It's better to work very hard on a few clients at first, get them on board for the long run and then look to expand.

Check out radio stations - you need to advise on the cost of airtime, rotation details, the target demograpic etc. The commercial may be amazing but if it runs when the target audience does not listen (say aimed at school kids and it goes out in school time, etc.) then you are basically fucked and you'll never see that client again. DON'T leave schedules up to the station, you need to know this stuff yourself.

Hope this helps!

RaGe, Rog did a fine job of answering your questions. I started at a voice house in Philly that we called the deli of sound (3 rooms, no waiting) and for the first 8 years of my career recorded nothing but commercial work. As a result, I knew what to expect and had made a lot of contacts by the time I opened my own studio.

Here are a few thoughts:
Besides your studio gear, the basic tools you need also include a nice stock music library (which you can buy or license) and stock sound effects... lots and lots of 'em! Only a few of my clients budget for custom music. Don't forget a stopwatch too!

Being associated with a video facility can be a great help. Most video houses need audio engineering talent whether or not they recognize it! Agencies doing TV/Video work like one-stop production.

I don't pay voice talent, that billing is done separately by the talent. I often make recomendations and have a fairly extensive list of voice samples to choose from in mp3 format at my website. In the states, talent comes in 2 flavors: AFTRA/SAG and Non-Union. Find out what talent are hot in your neck of the woods and network with them, they can help you in a number of ways:
1) They can make referrals to your studio
2) They can help you to create your first demo. Offer to help them with putting together demo tapes. Create a spot from scratch with them for that tape (most of what they'll want on their tape will already have been produced). Take the scratch spots you recorded with them and "Poof"... you'll now have a demo from your studio you can shop to agencies and production companies.
3) They can create "buzz" about your studio. The talent will shop their demos and mention that you helped put it together for them... win/win. Eventually you may be charging to create voice demos for other talent.

I like talent! They are creative people and can make or break a spot. Get to know them. Learn how to control a session so that you protect them from directors who are insensitive. Be aware of their needs in the booth: good talkback, water, lighting and air circulation. Take care them, they are NOT cattle.

A generalization on sessions:
A typical voice session is under 2 hours for a :60 radio spot with music and sfx mix. Everything must happen fast and can often be stressful. I often judge a new talents voice, decide which mic to use and set it up while everyone's doing the meet and greet. For the first few years I only used MD421's and RE-20's (lol) they are fine mics for v/o work.

Every session is different so learn to read the situation. Sometimes a client wants to spend all day recording (you pick up the lunch!). Others are constantly watching the clock, sweating, nervous... remember that cooler heads will prevail!

Different work breeds different client personalities. Political consultants are radically different beasts than corporate marketing directors who are not at all like producers of CD/Web based training programs... learning to work comfortably with all these folks and gaining their trust is what it's all about.

Check out your local professional organizations. In Philly, there is an Ad Club and a production club (ITVA). There are local trade publications and even a local Creative Directory which lists all your prospective customers. These can help you get a good start.

I've rambled long enough, hope this helps!

Rog and Curious, first of all thank you for your reply, its very informative already.

Rog, the way you describe things it seems like you are taking a pretty hefty part in the production (where it means making decisions) and even the "marketing" (QUOTE )of the ad.
I would assume that it'd be the agency's producer role? For instance I did a voice for a TV ad once and the producer was making the calls while the engineer/composer was just doing his job. I understand that each situation is different though.

Curious: How well does library music stacks up against what I call "Acidized music"? Don't clients prefer an "original" music bed instead of one that may be already in use somewhere else? My point is that it is fairly easy and fast to assemble a track with ACID, so maybe that would be a good selling point, waddaya think? Now I would much prefer to write from scratch but I guess the radio world is too fast paced for that (2hrs for :60, wow!).
Also about the sound FX, do you think "Hollywood SFX" (you know the 16 CDs set) is a good investment?

In any case I appreciate you guys helping me on that matter, I will probably bug you for more :D ... thanks again!

Originally posted by RaGe:
Rog and Curious, first of all thank you for your reply, its very informative already.

In any case I appreciate you guys helping me on that matter, I will probably bug you for more :D ... thanks again!

No worries, let me know how you get on!

RaGe,
Unlike Rog, I only record and mix. I leave media buying to the media buyers. In Philly they are very professional and very competitive and the big buyers get great discounts from the stations because of volume that would put guys like me at a disadvantage. The buyers are paid well so if you want to go into media buying... On top of that, some agencies buy their own media and would percieve my interest as "workin their turf". It's different everywhere so check out your market! I'm really not interested in being a middleman on things like media buys, talent payment/signatory obligations. What works for Rog in his market and what works for me in mine will be different for you... do your homework.

I think that Rog hits the nail on the head when he says that:
"it would certainly help you to find out about this stuff. The result is a happier client, more money for you and repeat business. In my experience, agencies vary from the ones who know what they're doing and those which don't have the first clue"

For a guy who loves recording and needs to find a way to make it a full time gig the ad work for tv/radio/video and the corporate and web work is extremely lucrative ($100/hr) compared to the guys struggling to bring in $20/hr. Remember, I'm working out of my basement here!

SFX libraries: "Hollywood Edge" is a great library. I also have an extensive collection of "Sound Ideas" sfx. You can also buy fx ala carte on line now. Many video post facilities have libraries (@48k) stored on hard drives (I'd really like to transfer my fx libraries to drive someday!).

Acid is great, I've wanted to get a pc just for that and gigasampler but I just did the mac/mix+ upgrade and am currently poor. Acid is still custom music and you should sell it as custom music and not worry that your skills and software allow you to do something quickly. Tv tracks have a longer production window and budget and custom scoring often comes into play. I've done sound design projects for :30 tv that billed 15 hours (a nice chunk of change).

You'd be suprised at how conservative the agencies are (generally) so stock music is good to have on hand. A needle drop/laser drop arrangement can be a good way to start until you're selling enough to commit to a license and make stock music a profit center.

Good luck with it!

I would also be more on your side of the business Curious. Rog, how do you get to be so involved in media buying? Is it the standard in UK for audio prod. houses?
Curious, congrats on the Mix+! I've been using Giga since it came out and never looked back. Of course it's not the tool of choice for radio production.

About the music you eventually end up writing do you usually license it for a one-time, per-play or is it included in your hourly rate? I've found some resources on the web on that subject but they confused me even more.
Unfortunaltely no Ad Club around here, unless it's very well hidden! I am currently setting up the business (licenses, etc) and will soon start looking for voice talents as well as make a first contact with the local agencies. I also got in touch with some radios but no luck ... didn't think of them as competitors at first! Lately I learned that many stations were doing their own ads (usually the station's rep himself).

Thanks you guys, you've helped me a lot already, I appreciate your time. (watch out, I might spring up for more ;) )

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RaGe:
[QB]I would also be more on your side of the business Curious. Rog, how do you get to be so involved in media buying? Is it the standard in UK for audio prod. houses?

My day job is in a radio station where we have a sales team, 3 writers and myself. 99% of the time any local commercials (as opposed to national campaigns) I recieve are written, produced and scheduled by small local agencies working with a member of the sales team. These agencies range from a one man band operation to those employing 5-10 people. IMO the quality of the commercials I get from these agencies can range from absolutely terrible (in terms of both the writing and the production) to the reasonable (never the good) There again, where as we charge anywhere between £300 - £800 per commercial, these people rarely charge more than £150. You get what you pay for.

If I were to leave and set up on my own, I'd have a big say in the buying of airtime as I would be the only person who the client can trust to get spots booked at times which would maximise the impact of a campaign. I doubt the station would completely screw things up but why take the risk?

Hope this helps.

RaGe,

You wrote:
"About the music you eventually end up writing do you usually license it for a one-time, per-play or is it included in your hourly rate?"

Sound design is hourly rate. Custom music beds are negotiated directly with client and based on usage and budget and are generally a buy-out. The going rates will vary market to market. A lot depends on the # of musicians hired.

Rog,
You wrote:
"IMO the quality of the commercials I get from these agencies can range from absolutely terrible (in terms of both the writing and the production) to the reasonable (never the good) There again, where as we charge anywhere between £300 - £800 per commercial, these people rarely charge more than £150. You get what you pay for."

It's scary isn't it! :)

Thanks for the discussion guys!

Originally posted by Curious G:
RaGe,

Thanks for the discussion guys!

It's been fun! I wonder if audiokid would set up a forum for producers and engineers involved in the radio industry?