I might be wrong on this, so please by all means correct me... (I'm not at all a technical person, but this was explained to me recently).

The difference between the formats VST, AU and RTAS are the shells.

The core programming is the same because it's what makes the plug in, meaning an EQ is made a certain way for all formats, but the shells are made differently. The shell is just how the software unwraps that shell, to get at the core.

So RTAS has that shell around the core. PT unwraps that shell to get at the core. Same with Logic and AU; same with Cubase and VST.

Wouldn't that mean that they all work exactly the same? It's just a different means to the same end. I think it would depend more on which format you're comfortable with. Almost all native plugs include a VST and RTAS version, so it's not like cost is a factor.

It also depends on which DAW you want to run. I guess the nice thing about PT is the VST Wrapper. As far as I know, there is not an RTAS Wrapper. Is there?

As far as I'm aware, VST uses a callback based method.

The host throws some data at it and expects the processed data back.

If the others work the same way, great, they're all the same.

Yes though, the core processing will always be the same. You can use different core algorithms and different approaches, but essentially, they're all the same.

I skimmed through 1.2 pages of this thread..im ignoring all that crap and here's my answer...

I don't know if you mean VST vs RTAS in the manner of which is better from a programming standpoint or which is better from a sound standpoint or which is better from an availability standpoint or which is better from some other standpoint...so I'll address or try to address them all.

Programming Standpoint: I don't know the technology behind each of these. I don't know if RTAS programming is more efficient than VST programming. Within each I'm sure a lot depends on who is writing the code. I would guess that DAW usage also comes into play here...Since RTASs are written expressly for PT it would seem to me that makes it easy for programmers to optimize their code. VST is a standard and can probably also be optimized but but I don't know if that optimization can be done on the same level as it can with RTAS and PT.

Sound Standpoint: Here, one needs to compare the EXACT SAME plug from each option. Some people here have said that RTAS reverb x is better than any VST reverb they've heard. That's not a valid comparison. Many VST synths come in multiple formats and from the ones I've used in both formats there wasn't any or wasn't enough difference between the two types to make one better than the other.

Availability Standpoint: There are many more VSTs available then RTASs. This gives one a much larger pool of plugins to try out which would seem to make them a better choice. However, there are many VSTs that are, for lack of a better word, toys. But, that is only because more people are making them. If everyone who made VSTs made RTASs, then there would be just as many toy RTASs.

Under the availablility standpoint comes the DAW question. I did see where your question about VST vs RTAS is influencing your DAW decision...and as such it's a good question to ask.

VSTs can be used in any DAW software. RTAS only on one. I haven't used every RTAS but from my experience, there isn't an RTAS out that doesn't have a VST version just as good. Reverbs are probably the one area where that can be iffy but that's probably it.

Me? I use VST but plugin type wasn't really high on my criteria list when I was choosing a DAW.

Some people here have said that RTAS reverb x is better than any VST reverb they've heard.

Actually what I said was, "D-Verb is better than any FREE, INCLUDED reverb I've ever heard". I think that may have changed since Cubase 5 now includes a convolution reverb which is quite malleable.

VST is better because it is used on most platforms.

RTAS is a digidesign only platform - for any users of that platform, they will obviously register rtas - but you can use VST in most other sequencers in the PC World and a substantial amount of Mac VST plugins exist too.

I also disgaree about quality - RTAS is so system unique that it is barely worth writing free plugins for that platform - just because VST is an open SDK and people can (and do on a huge basis) provide free VST plugins of variable quality, you can't use that as a stick to beat a plug in format. The vast majority of NATIVE high end processing plugins are available as VST format and they can cost you a remortgage on a house.

As for reverbs - the best reverbs are not in the box in Protools. Space Designer in Logic, Perfect Space in Sonar and Cubase's new convolution reverb and even the Roomworks reverb supplied since SX3 are all better than the reverb mentioned. Logic Studio 8's new compressor is superior to bomb factory to my ears.

You all know that I'm watching this.

I dont have a clue about any of this programming stuff and plug-ins....I'm still analog if that matters.

However. I do recognize a hothead when I see one. Having been around the rest of you for a while now, I know what the intentions of the answers to the original post were all about. I didnt see any real purpose in the reaction to any of the orginal answers to the first post.

I did see alot of information exchange and according to Mr. Rainydayglory, this is what he wanted. I'm not entirely sure why the repeated expletives were necessary, I dont remember anyone but Mr Glory using them.....

I also dont think that at 30 years old Mr Glory is giving much thought to the possible visitors to this site. While all the "adults" on here can certainly handle that kind of special language and attitude, there really are young kids who read these pages on a daily basis and this just isnt the kind of stuff we want to foster.

So, Mr Rainy, if you have in fact fled the building, thats fine. You were wrong to flare up so easily. NO one said you were lazy.. This is something that is encountered daily here and most of the regulars will try to get someone asking such a simplistic question to do some research before moving into long dissertations about this, that, and the other thing.

I notice that you did NOT word your question as to the amount of personal work you had done prior to asking.

Perhaps you could have phrased it..." I've done nearly two months of research on the differences in VST and RTA plugs and cant really find any good opinions in real time about the relative merits of each. Could someone help me please?"

Chances are no one would have suggested you do some research.

All of this lies with you and certainly the name calling and bombastic reactions to relativly mild responses to your original post.

If you cannot live within this community then certainly dont.
If you cannot live within this community with some form of civility, you wont be allowed.

Dont be a JP....

Davedog wrote:
Dont be a JP....

I was just thinking the same thing. What ever happened to that guy? Busy using his EQ to add dynamics I guess...

Zo

"Busy using his EQ to add dynamics I guess..."

I can imagine it would take quite a while tbh. Best leave him to it.

rainydayglory wrote:

but if i learn anything, and if i can help, just ask. i'm here to help, not be a newb, or a douche.

RDG:
Which VST or RTAS plugin's have you used and which ones did you find most useful?
Have you used any VSTi instruments? and if so which ones would be a good choice for keyboard or drum?

Leedsquietman: While I respect your opinion I have to say, I don't have any issues with the plugins in ProTools. Latency has been a non issue for me and I have a relatively old system. Most major developers have plugins in multiple formats. Preference is one thing but one better than the other i think is a matter of personal opinion.

Sure. Everyone has the right to their own opinions - I just happen to be very familiar with Cubase, Logic and Protools HD as we have these systems at my work. I suppose I do have a bit of an Anti-PT LE/M-Powered complex, but my health plan doesn't include psychiatry :D

Of course, given the choice, I can't say that I don't enjoy mixing in PTHD with McDSP and Waves TDM bundles my work has (a school board, one of my jobs is recording the choir and board events with speakers and professional development DVDs etc). It would be hypocritical of me to say otherwise, but I really believe that Logic especially has great plugins in the box, and Cubase and PTLE are fair. I just don't like the 'exclusiveness' of a system that has it's own hardware and plugin format I guess. In all honesty, at home, I have bought my own awesome plugins such as Sonalksis and PSPAudio plugins, so I don't use ones in the box much anyway.

At the end of the day, it's all just tools. The creativity of music comes from within, not as part of any specific DAW or plugin package. And as someone who knows some of your music, I know that you have extensive knowledge of the process as well as being a great musician, so peace !

I despise the closed minds of Digidesign but I enjoy ProTools. I really wish they would just develop a dongle or even just an iLok authorization that would allow us to use other hardware. They're half way there with the micro. I don't understand why they just don't go all the way.

djmukilteo wrote: [quote=rainydayglory]

but if i learn anything, and if i can help, just ask. i'm here to help, not be a newb, or a douche.

RDG:
Which VST or RTAS plugin's have you used and which ones did you find most useful?
Have you used any VSTi instruments? and if so which ones would be a good choice for keyboard or drum?

i'd like to offer a sincere and simple apology for my lack of civility, i HAVE been humbled, and now let's move on

the RTAS' i have used were the standard protools set, i LOVE the visual eq you can only get it with protools 7, protools 6 only had the 3 band, which sounded just as good, i'm just a sucker the visual aspect. the standard set that comes with protools 7 for everything, eq, compression, it's all really great. and i feel comfortable that the RTAS' are kinda 'standardized'.

my fear of vst's comes from the fact that ANYONE can make them. i know i can hook up meter's to test them, but that's a little too far.

davedog: i was taught in school how to align a real STUDR 24 track 2inch behemoths. i didn't understand it all, and i feel like if i try to learn how to meter a vst for accuracy, i'm just running in circles, when i really just want to finish my album unhindered by the technical process.

my drummer has used a lot of VSTi's. i was asking him about a good real time VST eq or compression, but he only knows instruments. with that in mind, i'll check with him and be back tomorrow

VST EQ/Comp?

Reaplugs, http://reaper.fm/reaplugs/
ReaComp/ReaEQ will do the trick.

ReaFIR, if your PC is powerful, will happily display an FFT analysis while allowing you to EQ it (it displays in and out values).

If you just want an FFT analysis, you can get SignalAnalyser from the Freebies page on http://www.rs-met.com (unfortunately the site doesn't link directly)