7 for certain but if the Mixbus likes 8, maybe that. Forget XP now. Its done. 7 is great.

all mixbus wants is anything past XP .. and duel core. win 7 is perfect, it's what the machine is loaded with now although he says he has certs for both 7 & 8.

found an asus w / 16" screen, 500 gig 7200 rpm drive, 4 gigs of memory and an Nvida graphics card with both USB2 and Firewire ports! perfect for a small portable DAW rig ...

http://www.cnet.com…

he's asking $275. i might be able to grind him down to $250 ...... :biggrin: happy, happy, happy!

all mixbus wants is anything past XP .. and duel core.

Actually, what it wants is anything XP PRO or better. XP Home Edition won't cut it. And of course, dual core.

While I agree with Chris that XP is done, it's still a rock solid OS. But all the same, you're probably best to look at 7 or 8.

And FWIW, pretty much all store bought PC's come with bloatware, not just HP. Dell, Toshiba and all the other store bought PC's all come resident with crap that you'll spend the first 2 hours with deleting and uninstalling.

got it. had to go the whole 9 yards .. $275 but even at that it's a screaming deal ... i looked it up and they are asking 500 to 600 on ebaaa for ones that show wear or have chips /scratches on the case. mine is pristine.

i'm really jazzed. spawn of GF (who is a computer geek) says it's a 3rd gen i5 processor and that just the chip alone cost that much. he thinks i got a steal.

i have to wait for a couple of weeks to buy the Mixbus software. i'm also thinking of installing Studio One as well.

i'm also looking for a 16 channel firewire interface and some small powered desktop speakers. i have a small foot print rack that is slanted on the bottom and straight at the top that will hold 20 spaces of gear so i'm going to put the outboard i have left and my patch bays in that and the whole mess should fit very nicely into my home office (which is very small). i'll be getting back into production very soon now .... really excited.

are you looking to go higher end on the interface like a prism orpheus, or UA, or RME? o something more mid line like a motu? or just something basic? have you checked out krk's small speakers yet. yamaha just redesigned their former hsm series into now the hs series, lol. they might be worth a listen.

i still use xp, but that's cuz it ain't broke on my aging home rec system, and i ain't fixing it. i use windows 7 on this laptop for internet, ect, and find it as stable and clutter free as xp. i'm sure it's probably that way for audio production, but w/ the added option of 64 bit operation, if your hardware supports it. i might be interested in any peices of gear that doesn't find it's way into the rack, keep me posted, if your getting rid of anything.

glad ta hear your gonna be back up and running man!

not going to go high end on the converters. i'm looking at the echo audiofire box https://echotm.com . it's 12 in and out 192 k. that should do me just fine. if i need more i'll get a second one and i'll have 24 in and out. if i can't get by with that i'm an idiot. the 6" krk's are what i'm looking at for monitors. i've always liked krk's stuff and they can be had for cheep on the eblow and C/L.

i will have a bunch of stuff left over K but i'm not sure if you will want/need any of it. there's a list of stuff i had for sale on the want ads here if you want to look but now i'm gonna keep what good stuff i have left like my Lexicon 60/70 & 80 as well as my Eventide DS/E 3000, the

Millennia Origin  https://mil-media.c…

my JLM TP-8 and Dyna-Mite. i also have a pair of drawmer 404 gates i'll hang on to at least for a while until i decide if i need them or not. i sold my SM7a but the guy i sold it to decided to re sell it so i bought it back. glad i did that now. i'm wishing i hadn't sold my KEL-HM1's now. eventually i'll be on the lookout for a pair of nice para eq's. it's a sickness you know.

it's a sickness you know.

It is indeed. It is referred to as Gear Addiction Syndrome, or, GAS.

I've been suffering from GAS for many years now. ;)

I think the little Tannoy Reveal 501/601 do serious justice to sound. Not expensive for a pair. Add a good powered sub and its really pretty nice.

Nice machine. I will say that you might get really tired working on that size of screen. Since I bought a 32 NOTHING is even remotely acceptable to these old eyes.

As for interfaces....Dont overlook Focusrite. The Pro40 for firewire and the Scarlett's for usb. Great reviews. My local pro shop is a dealer and they have almost zero returns on them.

thanks for the hints Dave.

i have been on a laptop with a 14" screen for years now so the 16" screen on the ASUS looks huge to me. i'm not going to be working for hours on end and i usually don't really pay so much attention to a screen unless i am dialing something up. i think it will be fine but if i need i can always borrow the GFs' monitor or get a larger one to hook up although i am striving to keep the overall footprint down and portability to a minimum. it's already getting out of hand.

i was looking at the Apogee Ensemble but unfortunately they are Mac only. Why would they do that ? i don't need preamps. i already have the Yamaha ML7 for 8 cheapos and the JLM TMP 8 and the Millennia SST-1 for 9 channels of premium pres and a monster "channel strip".. so i don't need more. what i need is as many channels of line inzanoutz without any frills for "at mix" processing and summing. later i will be looking for a summing solution. the the more i look the more i lean to the echo audiofire but i think i would want at least 2 of them. there goes the footprint and portability.

i just noticed the $40 offer from Harrison expires on the 12th. after that it's back to $220. I guess i'll bite the bullet and get it tomorrow. oh well no milk shakes or ice cream for the next couple of weeks!

got it.installation was a breeze. been playing with it for an hour or so and it's a simple program to use. the compressors on the channel strips and buses sound pretty good from what i can hear so far. i'm very happy with it and i'm looking forward to getting an interface so i can do some tracking.

Most interfaces with a decent budget type price these days will include at least two preamps. Its just the way the manufacturers structure things for their clientele. You dont have to use them in most cases. The reson I mentioned the Focusrite is the ability to use all the preamps you have. Having two inputs at a time when you clearly have so many choices would seem backwards thinking and a interface only is going to be a large expenditure. Of course if you still have any ADAT machines left you have your interfaces already.

good thoughts Dave. thanks for that.

i also still have the 16 channels of ai3s i used with my Cubase computer too. so i do have a ton of 16 / 48 and 24 / 48 inputs but i want to go at least 24/ 96 throughout the whole system, so the adats are all out. plus i am just sick to death of the toslink cables and all that goes with them. useing SMUX is a pain too with the limits on track count they offer, usually 8 tracks total. the whole system is antiquated and if i am going to update, i'm going to really update. i'm going to sell them if i can find someone who wants them (the ai3's) but i seriously doubt i will ever be able to get rid of the blackface 16 bit ADATs and the BRC, even if i offered them for cheap. no one wants them and they are getting harder and harder to find tape for.

second i need a bunch of inzanoutz for mixing so i can sum externally and run effects sends returns and do inserts so the 12 in and out the echo firebox has, will be used up fast. like i said i really want at least 2 of them for 24 inzanoutz. i would love to go high end RME / Benchmark / Apogee but i can't swing that and at the level of work i will be doing (mostly self amuse) it makes it hard to justify spending that kind of cash.

but i can't swing that and at the level of work i will be doing (mostly self amuse) it makes it hard to justify spending that kind of cash.

I dunno, pal. I mean, I understand affordability, budget constraints and the need to justify purchases with business based on that purchase...believe me I understand.... but you're one of "those" cats who has a certain level of expectation for themselves, too... and you need to ask yourself if you are going to be happy with anything less than what you would expect from someone else. This latest move into (or back into) digital for you was, and correct me if I'm wrong here... motivated by several factors: (?)

You want to be able to mix and do projects, either of your own design, or to perhaps look at involving yourself in mixing for others, maybe making a few bucks, but which doesn't exclude projects like Indaba mixing contests...

Your interest was really piqued by the latest offer of the Harrison Mixbus, which is a bit of a touchstone for your love of analog...

You miss being able to work on something, anything, which will get that audio DNA that is infused within you working again, creating, mixing.

So with all of that being said, are YOU going to be happy with anything less than what you'd expect from someone else? Okay, so the Neve is probably out. Very few of us have that kind of cash lying around, and justifying that one to the significant other is a really tough sell when they look around at all the gear you already have - lol - and wonder why you can't just make due with the rooms full of audio gear that you currently sit on. ;)

But..

you're one of those "purist" guys, and I don't mean that sarcastically or disrespectfully. You and I don't always agree across the board on things, but our motivation and expectation for great audio is completely shared, and we've always been on the same page in that regard. And, we respect each other, regardless of our occasional differing opinions... so with that being said...

I guess I'm just tossing the idea out there as to how much you'll end up liking a DAW layout that simply "gets you by". It seems to me that, because of your experience level, your trained ears, your passion for fidelity, and, dare I say your already existing "less-than-excited about digital platforms" attitude, that any system based on mediocre pres and converters is not even so much a lateral move for you, but perhaps even a step backwards? You need to ask yourself if you're going to be happy by "just getting by" in terms of these things, especially with a cat like you who isn't all that crazy about digital to begin with. ;)

Look pal, I know that financial constraints are a very real issue, even for us pros, but you need to at least consider putting money back towards a future purchase of that which is necessary to get you the best results you can with the system and platform you now own, regardless of whether it's for commercial client projects or just for your own stuff... because I don't think you're gonna really be happy until you get what would make you satisfied.

just sayin'...

-d.

good point Donny but i have already been recording exclusively in digital since 2001. i think you have perhaps misconstrued my enamoration for analog as me "only recording with analog". that's not the case at all. unfortunately i sold off my MCI desk and analog machines in 2001 -2002 when i saw the bottom of the market dropping out from underneath me. i got out while i could still recoup some of my investment (i only lost half of my ass).

since then, i have been recording only with a computer / Dual core AMD Anthlon 1800 Windows XP pro and 16 channels of Alesis AI3 converters. that rig has been sitting out in my shop for years now. it's big, it's loud ( forced me to get a "Silence Box") it's hot. it's a pain in the ass to set up and it takes most the space in a room. it uses toslink cables which i absolutely despise. i have doubts as to if the hard drives will even spin at this point. it's time to upgrade to something i can set up in my home office with a laptop, one rack and a couple of small powered monitors.

i never did invest heavily into high end conversion. my last DAW used Alesis AI3's and before that i was using ADAT's and i've always been not excited but fine with how they sound. but on the other hand, perhaps that is exactly why i have never been that jazzed about digital audio?

you seem to be pooh poohing the Echo Audiofire 12. do you have any particular issues with it? do you know something about it i don't? Martin Walker from SOS gave it a pretty good review http://www.soundons…

"The Fireworks module combines industry-standard Texas Instruments Firewire chips with DSP technology, supports up to 12 simultaneous input and output channels at 192kHz and more at lower sample rates, has a built-in low-jitter clock and sync to external clock, and includes a digital mixer."

as far as the conversion it seems to be better than some but not quite as nice as others. the TI or Cirrus Logic seem to be the most popular chips in the generic world of converters with more esoteric chips being used in the high end. yes i would love a UA or an Antelope but i just cannot justify spending that kind of cash at this point of my "career" in audio.

my issues with digital have always been flat non dimensional sound and what i have learned through experimenting is that external summing of tracks will go a long way towards fixing that problem. i always wondered why my old 16 ADATS through the MCI made better mix's than anything i mixed itb with Cubase. well it's the old bug-a-boo mixbus clog itb. even mixes piped out of Cubase with Alesis AI3 converters into a lowly Mackie SR24 sound much better (to my ears) than anything mixed itb.

i just have an issue about investing in stuff that has a short shelf life (read less than 15 years! LOL) . while it appears the dust has settled at 24/ 192 and we won't be moving away from that format for quite a while advances in computers themselves, DAW software and how the data is transferred from converter to computer is still in a state of flux. what's going to be the next way of doing it? MADI? Thunderbolt? today Mixbus is cool but what about next year or even next month?

i would really be pissed if i went in the deep end for $6k to get some fire wire converters only to learn i can't connect the damn things to anything in just a few months or even years. computers have a way of forcing us to move on from things that just work well for us despite the learning curve and the need to re tweak everything to get back up running. i know this will not be my last computer and i will likely be getting different interfaces in a few short years. it's only been 7 years since i invested in my AI3's and they are more or less useless door stops at this point as they are limited to 24 48 performance. 7 years may seem like forever to some but for me it's just the blink of an eye. if i were working with analog this would never be an issue. this is another reason i hate digital. but what the hell, i gotta get back on the bus, so to speak at some point.

i'm 60 this year and no kids want to work with a toothless old man who hates their music and looks like Santa Clause ... so i doubt i will be doing any recording with any one other that a few select geezer friends and by myself. plus i probably don't hear good enough any longer to notice any differences anyways.

i just have an issue about investing in stuff that has a short shelf life (read less than 15 years! LOL) .

are you sure it's a wise move to go w/ an exclusively fire wire box? this MOTU.com - Overview is a similar box to the echofire, but w/ ten channels of conversion. not quite apogee or rme, but not too far off, and better (ie, a bit, fuller, smoother high mids/top) to my ears than other interfaces i've used. just slightly more like musical, as opposed to clinical. unless i was getting a top of the line apogee symphony, or some heavy duty standalone converters, it's really hard to justify not using motu stuff. it's definatley no pro sumer. The dsp cue effx are cool too. super stable drivers too.

to get to my actual point, lol, it's both firewire, and usb. your next computer will likely have usb, but probably not firewire, which i'm sure they'll be adapter cards and boxes, ect, but again more crap to accumulate.

i'm 60 this year and no kids want to work with a toothless old man who hates their music and looks like Santa Clause

lol, i work w/ one of those sometimes!!! the stories are priceless.

With Sonar x64 on windows 7 x64, I found that nearly all 32bit vst will work if I install them in the x64 vst folder (not in Program Files x86)
So choosing X64 isn't a issue for me... ;)

Kurt wrote:"i'm 60 this year and no kids want to work with a toothless old man who hates their music and looks like Santa Clause ... so i doubt i will be doing any recording with any one other that a few select geezer friends and by myself. plus i probably don't hear good enough any longer to notice any differences anyways"
First off, your hearing "was" probably 10 times more acute than most folks' to begin with, and I'd be willing to bet that you have taken better care of it than most have.
So no more mixing rock'n'roll for the kiddies...Do you REALLY want to be in that seat now? There are TONS of folks out there who are older, WISER, and that have $$ to throw at gear and NO CLUE as to how to make it happen. They are the ones you target...the country pickers, the blues guys, the retro rockers. You go to them, they will appreciate YOU a helluvalot more than the stage mom with the next Justa Beaver...and don't discount nice acoustic artists and students who want a nice jury/demo of a live performance.
PS Glad that YOU got the TLM, you bastard...:) I thought someone else here got it.

thanks everyone for the replies. it helps to go over this with others and get their thoughts. i am still not sure how i want to proceed but there only seems to be a couple of solutions. i would think there were more options but it doesn't seem so.

Glad that YOU got the TLM, you bastard...:) I thought someone else here got it.

i've had the JLM TMP 8 for years and i love it. it was one of the pieces i never considered parting with when i was selling out. i think someone else did get the one that was up FS here.

are you sure it's a wise move to go w/ an exclusively fire wire box? this MOTU.com - Overview is a similar box to the echofire, but w/ ten channels of conversion. not quite apogee or rme, but not too far off, and better (ie, a bit, fuller, smoother high mids/top) to my ears than other interfaces i've used. just slightly more like musical, as opposed to clinical. unless i was getting a top of the line apogee symphony, or some heavy duty standalone converters, it's really hard to justify not using motu stuff. it's definatley no pro sumer. The dsp cue effx are cool too. super stable drivers too.

to get to my actual point, lol, it's both firewire, and usb. your next computer will likely have usb, but probably not firewire, which i'm sure they'll be adapter cards and boxes, ect, but again more crap to accumulate.

i just can't find anything else other than the Firebox 12 that does what i need for less. the ASUS i bought does have USB and Firewire as well as Ethernet connections. i considered USB and i decided to go with firewire for a faster transfer rate when tracking and monitoring multiple inputs live with plugs. as far as the MOTU, i don't know why but those things (MOTU products) just don't twist my knob. i think it's a hang over from the old days when they were exclusivly Mac and pushing Digital Performer and MOTU hardware as a package. i was looking at the 24i/o until i realized it only works with a pci card ... that's not going to happen. i don't want to pay for or mess with unneeded features. the pre amps in MOTU's do not excite me and i don't need them, ADAT interfacing .... i am just so done with the whole Toslink thing and to boot the limits at 48k (ok higher with SMUX but what a a hassel for just 96 k).

sure firewire may be on the way out (unless you work on a Mac) but by the time i ever reinvest (and it's questionable if i ever will), i think we will be all dancing to the thunderbolt tune or something else. if i were going to go USB i would be going for the UA Appolo 16 or an Orion but i just don't want to spend that much ... too bad someone wouldn't send me one .... lol.

my issues with digital have always been flat non dimensional sound and what i have learned through experimenting is that external summing of tracks will go a long way towards fixing that problem.

This was more of my concern ( for you) than anything else. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought you to be inexperienced with digital. I just know your propensity for the 'analog" sound - and was suggesting that because of your experience and skill level, that your standards are high - the result of which could be your disappointment in the "run of the mill" converters that currently flood the market.

;)

fwiw,
-d.

update.

if you care?
i won an auction on E-"bah" today for an Alesis IO 26 firewire for 153 bucks + shipping! not what i really want but it will do. it puts me at a total of $430 (at present) for a virtually brand new recording rig that will actually record a live band in a pinch. i'm thinking of another 2 to 300 for the monitors. (i'm a cheap old bastard) .... PLUS it will be very portable ... laptop and interface will all fit in a small backpack! so maybe some remotes?

it's a desktop interface which i like. it will be nice not to have to rack it ...it has a few nice features like a phono pre amp input as well as facility for two headphone feeds ... quite a lot in a compact package. it will sit nice between my two laptops.

i have a small footprint tall oak rack with a slant mixer surface i picked up on CL cheap i can stick in my office space that i will put what outboard i have left along with a couple of balanced 1/4" patch bays.

i'm still stuck with toslink cables if i want to connect my 2 AI3s to it but I will be able to track at 92 or 88.1 via firewire to the ASUS i5 / Harrison Mixbus for the live tracks and use the AI3s for secondary ins and outs for less important tracks or effects sends and returns. I will mix into my old Gateway Linux laptop in Ardour at 44.1 via a M-Audio USB box i already have for mixing otb sans SRC. it should be pretty sweet. i do wish i could afford an RME firewire converter but it's hard to justify spending that much at this point in the game. (old and not getting any younger)

now all i really need to get is a pair of 6" powered monitors (want the KRK's). i am going to be on the look out for a decent 19" rack mount mixer i might be able to use as a summing network. i dunno what i am going to do with it but at least i can use it to put together the podcast i want to start doing or maybe enter some of the stems mixing competitions and to listen to reader submissions on the song forum on something other than the sh*tty speakers on my laptop.

next challenge is do do something i tell other people to never do which to try to get my small office space (i mean tiny) acoustically treated to be a good as i can possibly get it ... that's going to be a real laugh!

Three monitors I have heard and think they sound really good especially for the price. NEW! Presonus Eris...both 5" and 8" with the 8" going for $500 a pair and the 5" going at $300/pr. Also the Tannoy Reveal 501's and 601's are decent. A little bass-lite but not bass hungry. Something you could certainly get used to especially in a very small environment. $350 for the 5's and $500 for the 6". Also dont dismiss the Samson Rubicons. A little messy in the low-mids but they have a ribbon tweeter and the imaging is quite good. I'm not sure they havet been discontinued but originally the 5's were about 250/pr and the 6"@ 399 and the 8" at 5 bills.I have heard these side by side with several KRK's and the KRK's are kinda dark in comparison and quite a bit muddier in the low-end.

thanks for the pointers Dave,

i forgot to mention whatever i get they need to have the ports on the face and not on the rear. i will be placing them on a shelf up against the wall behind my desk.

i'm thinking 8's will be a little too big but i would like something that goes a little lower than 55Hz. i'll check those you have mentioned out but in the end i will be at the mercy of what comes up used on Eblah or C/L that i can afford. i do appreciate your advice and the time it takes you to respond though. everything helps.

anything at this point will be an improvement over what i am using now (which is nothing). i can always haul out my DMT 12s but just one of those things on its stand will take up most the room in my office. i'm thinking of putting them in the living room so i can listen out there when i need to. i'm telling you, this place is really no bigger than a small walk in closet and shaped very weirdly with a lot of doors and what i can only discribe as a port hole (yes port hole) in one of the walls. the good thing i guess is when all the doors are open there are very few boundaries. i'll post pics when i get things straightened out. it will be very good for a laugh.

main thing is you are getting your purpose of life back Kurt! Its not how big man, its how you use it and just having a room where we can work. When we keep the volume down, we can work in the most confined area's and still get it done, especially when you already know what you are doing.

thanks Chris. i really appreciate all your support. you are actually the one who lit the fire under me to get something set up and going again. it's all YOUR fault! lol.

i do have other rooms i could use, including setting up in the shop out back which has all the room i could ever need (24' X 30' w/ 16' ceilings) but i am kind of enamoured with the idea of setting up a small and compact system in a small space .... and my office is perfect for me as i won't have to walk too far (edima in the left leg, knees are shot, hard to get around) and i can listen to music through out the house if i want from my studio rig.

Hey Dave!

those Eris 5's look pretty nice ... i checked Sweatwater and they aren't in stock yet ... but they look like they are going for 149 each. i'll be watching for them in the next couple weeks... thanks for the pointer.

cool stuff kurt. that interface was a strong consideration of mine when i was buying one a few years ago. i forget why i didn't get it, think it was protools compatability.

yamaha just redesigned the hsm drivers, how much i dunno, but maybe worth a try the hsm 5's. also the alesis monitor 1 mk2 powered are nice and cheap, and front ported. i wouldn't call them crazy accurate, but i like listening to stuff on them when i have used them, so thats enough for me in that price range. they just sound like decent speakers. pair is like 200 or less. 6.5" drivers i believe.

i have used the A&H zed, the little tiny one w/ knobs for faders, just to sum parallel preprocessed things like bass, to one channel on the way in, and i'd say it doesn't get in the way. i think it's like 150 bucks new, don't think it's rack mountable tho, probably could easily mc giyver something. it doesn't seem to have a 'sound' where the low echelon mackies are a bit maybe dull? doesn't add bad stuff, or good stuff, you could probably find something better out there, but it is not bad.

but i am kind of enamoured with the idea of setting up a small and compact system in a small space .... and my office is perfect for me as i won't have to walk too far (edima in the left leg, knees are shot, hard to get around) and i can listen to music through out the house if i want from my studio rig.

also nice to be able to have other distractions on while cpu things are happening, like mixdown renders, and software update type crap. a cable tv is one of the few things i miss when at the studio, vs living room setup. during procedural operations.

(24' X 30' w/ 16' ceilings)

so you have a tracking room? hmmm few hundred bucks for a snake?

hows mixbus going? any new cool things that you've found?

Do you play any instruments? you had said you wern't sure what you were gonna do w/ your new stuff.

K
i am so jazzed! both the computer and the interface are virtually brand new without a scratch on them. i am very happy with how cheap i was able to get into this. i expected to pay more for a computer alone than what i have spent so far. it's getting to be a quest to see how much quality i can get on the cheap.

yes i play and sing. here's my soundcloud account link. some is stuff i did for a friend and the rest is my stuff ... all of it has me playing almost everything except live drums.

https://soundcloud.com/user418315800

i haven't played anymore with the Mixbus yet. i'm waiting on the converters and monitors .. just a couple more weeks. i blew the extra from this paycheck on the i/o 26 and i have to wait 2 more weeks before i can spring for the monitors.

as far as a mixer i want something that has headroom and lots of it! ... i already have a couple different Mackies and i can use them in the interim but i'm gonna save up for something killer for a mixer. i want compact but high head room ... maybe i can find a Neos for a deal ??? i would be very happy with a [[url=http://[/URL]="http://mcleansound…"]Midas Venice 160[/]="http://mcleansound…"]Midas Venice 160[/].

i do have a snake but i would have to insulate the shop before i did anything out there. it's either too cold or hot out there and there's a lot of ambient noise from the street. plus if a band started rockin' out in there i know my neighbors would sh*t.

I have heard the demo pair of the Eris 5's they have at my local All The Crap You Can't Afford store. They think they will be shipping in a short while. These really are quite good for the price. Its sufficient to say that this dealer doesnt carry crap.

"as far as a mixer i want something that has headroom and lots of it! ... i already have a couple different Mackies and i can use them in the interim but i'm gonna save up for something killer for a mixer. i want compact but high head room ... maybe i can find a  Neos http://spl.info/en/… for a deal ??? i would be very happy with a Midas Venice 160 http://mcleansound… ." Again. Do not overlook the Toft ATB. A whole LOT in a compact footprint.

Thanks Dave for the pointer but i still lean to the Midas. i've heard that Midas (post Peavey takeover) has moved production off shore which really sucks. but if i find a used one perhaps i can find one that was made Stateside. i know .... silly.

i have been researching the Venice and i've learned that they are no longer in production so i will have to scour the used market. there are plenty of the 24's and 32's available used but not so many 160's. i have also read many remarks from people who have used the Midas that were very positive. there were several people who say they have mixed on Neves, API's MCI's and SSL's who claim the Venice stands up to anything out there. not one negative remark about them.

i want something i can rack mount and the Venice is only $1600 vs $5400 for a Toft (which is not rack mountable) has more aux sends (which is one of the main reasons i want a mixer).

the pres in the Midas are all discreet and they were designed for a mod for tranny's. i'm not sure how much that is ... i would imagine not cheap. it might even bring up the cost to what the Toft is. but again it's rack mountable and i already have plenty of good pres. anyway that's a long way off .. i'll be either doing a passive summing solution or using the Mackies for the meanwhile.

they have the FW version as you probably know on flea bay. (Dead Link Removed)

maybe possible to justify 400bucks of it to reselling your alesis?

i'm enjoying your soundcloud recordings. they have a cool quality to them, on these despicable laptop speakers. sounds like a miniature band playing on the (qwerty) keyboard. sounds saturated, not distorted, maybe some transformers hitting tape? As far as conversion goes, i think 'full' is what you pay for. Got your 32nd notes down clean huh? like it. throw that thru a marshall and its shred baby (it's shred clean but, metalheads only speak in distorted tones:)!

Your in ohio? if you get the stuff, sheetrock/r-13/silicone, i'll help you for fun. i could probably get a friend or two. as long as the trip covers food, and transportation, i'll help to work for fun. that offer stands.

neighbors can only complain at certain times. around here it's 9pm-7am. plenty of time to work... sorry, just sayin 'if'.

as far as spakers go, you know you gotta hear them in the room. it's totally feasable to credit the contenders, bring 'em home, break em in, and return the failures. use the credit system properly and you get a whole 29 days. 28 to be safe. it's legal, it works, and keeps the shelve stocker a job. it's only a big box move tho ihmo, mom an pop would just lend you the speakers to avoid tentative credit... it worked for me, returned some speakers (yam hsm8's,) bought ampeg svt-pro3, after loan from local shop.

i should calm down lol.

K thanks for the offer. i accept. only i'm in Oregon not Ohio ... does it still stand? lol.

the VeniceF is not the same as a Venice ... the Venice has sliders for the fx rets and mon sends. also the VeniceF is made in China ... the older 160s were made in America. it bums me they discontinued the older version ... from what i've been able to suss out, the fw conversion is only 24/48 and i really want to get into higher sample rates. if i was going to stay at 48 or 44.1 i would have just hauled out my old system and loaded in the Mix Bus to it.

the neighbors are very religious and extremely conservative and he goes to bed early and wakes up early. he works his ass off too. they live on one side of me and the church he pastors at is on the other side. it just makes no sense to piss them off. if the difference was me making a living or not that would be one thing ... i mean a guys gotta make a buck, right? but just for the sake of entertaining myself it's not worth it to stir the sh*t. i can do what i need to do in the house. my living room is plenty large enough to get a drum set in ...

glad your digging the recordings .... i am using the JLM TMP8's a lot in there. they are transformer based pres kinda like API meets Neve thing ... i really really dig them i have 8 channels of them ...if it's not the TMP 8's it might be my SST-1 or it could be the Great River MP2NV i had for a review i wrote.i had to send them back ... the Crossfire Suite and Northern Night cuts were my best friend Ron Cooper. i recorded that at a studio with a Soundcraft Spirit into a G16 1/2" 16 track.

the songs with the real clean 32nd's ( maybe Old Chuck of Coal?) those guitar parts were played by a guy named Bruce McNiel .... super player ... he also played the acoustic solo bit on the bridge on "Little One".

DonnyThompson, post: 405341 wrote:

And FWIW, pretty much all store bought PC's come with bloatware, not just HP. Dell, Toshiba and all the other store bought PC's all come resident with crap that you'll spend the first 2 hours with deleting and uninstalling.

For that matter, it might be best to backup everything, verify backup, format drive and re-install just the items you need. If that's too daunting, buy a six pack and call your best geek friend over.

my GFs son "Spawn of GF" is a geek but i didn't need his help. when i got the computer it had a fresh install of Windows 7 and the guy i bought it from is a gamer so he had already stripped the extra crap off ...

i just downloaded and installed Mixbus and it runs perfect. we will see in the future how it goes when i tracks some stuff but so far i think i'm good to go ... interface should arrive tomorrow ... need monitors.

i just got a PM from Moonbaby,

Kurt:
Just wanted to clear up a few things mentioned to you in some recent posts under your thread "Windows"...
Midas was not taken over by Peavey. It was bought out by Uli [="http://www.behringer.com/"]Behringer[/]="http://www.behringe…"]Behringer[/]'s company. But I'll bet Hartley Peavey is kicking himself for not jumping on THAT wagon...
The original analog Venice line was not manufactured in the UK or the States, nor were they even made by Midas. They were all made in Germany by Dynacord, who was owned by the same company (Bosch Communications) that owned Midas at that time.

so that goes to show i don't know sh*t .... lol thanks Moonie!

BEHRINGER ???? awww crap! maybe the F designation stands for F'd up ?

all the more reason to look for an older one. i guess that explains [[url=http://="http://www.behringe…"]this[/]="http://www.behringe…"]this[/]

does anyone know anything about the crappinger 1600? i see it has "Xenix" pres and 60 mm faders ... but $500! ??? could it be any good at all?

"does anyone know anything about the crappinger 1600? i see it has "Xenix" pres and 60 mm faders ... but $500! ??? could it be any good at all?"

And you are worried about headroom........The Mackie's smoke these boards. And then theres the occasional "loose part" rattling around inside as well as a pretty high chance of permanent crosstalk between channels. I guess that helps for those ghost notes....

As to the Toft "issues", its amazing what you see and read on the innernyet...I read all of that too, theres a HUGE thread about these at GS and the percentage of naysayers is about 1% and half of them are mooks looking for trouble. My experience with them is totally hands on and recording albums with one.

Think of it as an entry level console to the big boys. The average table top mixer and live console cant match it. But then, they aren't designed to.

As for Made In China....I haven't commented much on this. I'm still hoping that the good ole USofA will get its production pants back on and outdistance these other countries who are taking over the high-tech machining and manufacturing. The Chinese are not stupid. Even though they flood the markets with low quality devices and equipment, there is no question about their ability and their machinery capabilities to do just the opposite. The factories are as high-tech and quality as anything in the world. It boils down to the consumer sector and what the bang-for-the-buck will bring. Why produce economically inferior products with high quality standards when inferior quality in high volume makes much more profit? And thats the problem.

Incapable? we should be so lucky they are bent on monopolizing the high-end market. Some high-end manufacturers are outsourcing parts to there anyway. Its only economically feasible to do so when labor costs so much in the modern countries.

Its all about how we as consumers intend to buy as the bottom line to product quality and capability.

And you are worried about headroom........The [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.mackie.c…"]Mackie[/]="http://www.mackie.c…"]Mackie[/]'s smoke these boards. And then theres the occasional "loose part" rattling around inside as well as a pretty high chance of permanent crosstalk between channels. I guess that helps for those ghost notes....

yeah that's what i was thinking ... cosmetic copy nothing like the real thing.

i guess we could go back and forth on the Toft ... i agree to disagree. i know you have one and i know you love it and i'm not saying you can't do great work on it. a lot of what i don't care for is who owns the company and how they have done business. the thing could be a gold plated Neve and sell for $1.50 and i would still shy away from it. bad karma that company. just my opinion and that's not to say i would expect everyone else to feel the same. we all live within our own skins.

i guess i will be leaning towards a Neos or an SSL X Desk .... sigh.

Thats an interesting take on the ownership. Its the first I have ever heard anyone talk about Toft products in that light. I wonder if you feel that way about all the products in the PMI group? Studio Projects? Joe Meek? Trident? Valley People? Tonelux? Or is it just Malcom Toft? I know of nothing but quality service from them. I'm not the exception.

It doesnt matter to me what you end up with. I wish you luck. A Neos or an SSL X desk is a fine choice. My point is the falacy of the not quite true statements regarding the performance interests and how Toft has dealt with their release of this line from the beginning. We are up to v.2.1 and each time something major has been addressed to improve reliability and quality and the prices remain the same. Pretty damn awful of em........ ;)

Dave,
if you like your ATB i'm glad for you. i never said someone couldn't make good recordings with them. i actually think that people can make good recordings with just about anything, a behringer even ....

there are particular companies i don't like to do business with. i won't go into a litany of who they are or why. in this case it's not the designer Toft, it's the company PMI in general.

as for the complaints about the ATB's, i would have to say that i have a lot of faith in Jim Williams and he has been very clear as to what the shortcomings of the ATB are. i certainly would not put him in the category of "mooks looking for trouble" and there are plenty of other people with the same complaints and not just at G/S.

all one has to do is do a search on "ATB mods" (do it) to find dozens of places where people are discussing the noisy 2-bus and aux returns, lack of overall headroom in the summing bus and upgrades to the channel strips. now that just about says to me, the whole console needs major work right out of the box.

there are also tons of complaints of boards that didn't work on delivery. PMI claimed the issues were how they were boxed for shipping and they redesigned the shipping crates.

then other people that said the things failed a short time after delivery and it took forever to get replacement parts or service.

to say that PMI addressed all these issues glosses over the fact that none of it should have happened in the first place. it appears they are trying to build them as cheap as they can, get them out the door, collect the dough and then set things straight on the back side. i don't care for that business model. i'm happy for you that your experience was a good one though.

if the things cost about 1/3 of what they sell for i might feel different but $5400 for 8 channels and $8 large or more for 16 or 24 is pretty exorbitant for a board that needs upgrading imo. i mean you can almost purchase a nice used REAL console for that. the only good thing anyone has to say about them is it's nice they used sockets to facilitate chip swaps and that the EQ section rocks .... and i think that's actually the only thing in them that is the same as a real Trident 80. but there's more to a console than the EQ section. other than that it's a whole new design. am i right?

i think they are just trading on the name and past rep of Trident which btw wasn't so hot at the end of the 80's when a lot of people lost deposits for consoles when the company folded. i knewone guy who lost 10 grand and he never got it back. i see no way the ATB's should cost PMI so much to produce, to justify the street price, especially considering where and under what conditions they are manufactured and the labor they use.

that's pretty much it other than the politics of the whole thing. PMI was a pioneer in moving production off shore 10 years ago and i have always disliked them, if only for that alone.

nochina if at all possible.

I understand. Thanks for your input. Most of Jim Williams posts were over three years ago and most had validity. I think his take on a lot of gear is spot on. Also, most of the negative responses about the gear at that time were from the same few people. When you perruse these posts you will see that it is only a small handfull of folks on that side and their concerns are certainly valid as are the large amount of positives from a wide variety of people. I have no dealing with the politics of that company and I'm sorry yours was a negative one. Things change over time and as I said we are on the Fourth iteration of the companys release of the mixers and things have been addressed considerably. And maybe because of the negative hype created in 2008 and 2009 by the naysayers. I'm sure they didnt change their politics though and that is a personal matter for you.

As for price. The MAP seems high but the REAL prices...etal: Street is quite a bit lower. Your $5400 gets you into a 16 not the 8. My eight was less than 4K. I just wanted to clear that up for anyone out the considering something like this. It seems unfair to the general reader to quote things that really arent.

And I know that I can use them in a pro way as could you or any other professional or pro caliber part time enthusiast.

Best!

K thanks for the offer. i accept. only i'm in Oregon not Ohio ... does it still stand? lol.

all day baby! i've been looking for an excuse to go visit my cali friends again. i'm a phone call away! :) that offer stands.

i hate the 'cheapening' of a console, and while there's no huge 'end result' push on sample rates, i still think it's best to do high as possible w/ best possible. if for nothing else, digital preservation/contortions.

my whole thought (one at a time grasshopper), is why, w/ such efficient, worldwide tech, and manufacturing, are companies just not making it like the old. It's not the tolerances, of efficiency of the factory, it's the skimping in the processing, and material quality. And part of the renowned magic, is the the higher tolerances. lets do it. lets make overkill machines, and instead of leaking waste to the river, create energy. i'm not a hippie, but my car from '03 stills runs fine, has had almost no maintenance, and is the last of the model from the late 80's honda design.

someday this will all meet for soundguys.

what smart big co's like ibanez, w/ tube screamers, have do is have multiple options, they use different chips, and different prices. if you want an original get one, but at least ibanez makes it possible to buy a hardwired, original-ish pedal, for a premium.

if anything, older designs are much more simple to manufacture, we just have to pay for the waste. or ecess. if a modern co can't duplicate a classic piece and sell it for reasonable prices, ugh. if it's close, cool, i'll try it.

just like pultec, my buddy brought up you can buy a classic pultec for the same as a new one. which one is gonna gain value in the next 20?, his opinion was interesting.

there's a lot more demand than there used to be. and a lot of it is for more affordable gear that is used in a home studio situation. that in it's self drives the need for automated production. there's no way a group of boutique manufacturers could keep up with demand as they did in the 70's & 80's.

there's also the issue that you can't get a lot of the parts that were used in older designs. even dyi guys are forced to use "upgraded" versions of parts many of them lsi chips rather than discreet parts. and a lot of the knowledge has been lost. i'm afraid we will never see the quality that was in design again. it's just a fact of the times. but even more than the lost sonics of the older designs what i lament even more is the loss of the musical chops and sensibilities. i must admit though i have just discovered two bands i knew nothing of that really rock ... and as i mentioned before through commercials on TV ..... so there are some out there that can still rock and that's all i really need. as long as the music it's self is good i really don't care how it's recorded. if it goes fomb be fom be foom and ting a ting a ting, i'm happy.

well, maybe it is just a fact of the times, maybe they'll be another 'magic time span' again but w/ the 'modern take. it's not like people are looking for the 1910 sound, ya know. it's always 50's-70's that people sweat. it's funny to me that deficiencies are what get alot of credit. people forget that tape didn't really die till the 90's. it's all about hiss, and degenerative stuff, to the current mainstream idea of tape, but like by the time they 'perfected' tape, digi took over cuz it was easier. it's not like you hear a nirvana song and go, 'wow thats tapey'. it's just how ya use it, no matter what, i guess.