Since I'm on the beginners forum... please, watch the budget :)
What kind of mics do you guys have and use to track drums?
Comments
Over the past couple of years, I have steadily decreased the number of mics I use on a drum set. I started out with the typical set up: 2 Neumann KM184s overhead, a 57 or 421 on snare and a D112 or KD421 on kick. The first change was to delete the snare mic; that change was barely noticeable. For the past year or so, I have been working almost exclusively on roots rock, blues or small jazz combo's and I have finally gotten rid of the kick mic. The two overheads alone provide a more realistic drum sound than any close mic'd set up that I have heard. It finally sounds like you are listening to a live drum kit. The final step is to remove one of the two overheads and record the drums in mono; for this I am still trying to decide between one KM184 versus one Royer R121. The KM184 sounds good almost anywhere I put it, the Royer isn't that forgiving, but it sounds REALLY good when I find that perfect spot.
I often have to use close mics because of room acoustics. I use AKG C418's on toms. '57 on snare top. Oktava MC012 snare bottom. AKG D112 for kick. AT 4041's for overheads and a TLM103 for a room mic (sometimes). If I have good room acoustics I just use either a pair of MC012's or the 4041's for overheads and '57 for snare and D112 for kick. It depends on what kind of sound I'm going for. I hope this helps.
Bob
I have found time and time again that if the drummer and room are right it doesn't really matter what mic(s) you put up or where they are.
But as a general rule my budget setup is:
Kick: D112
Snare: 57, 421
Overheads: hmmmm....hard to cut corners here. maybe those Octava small diaphragms. This is where I wouls spend my $ on good condensors.
Room: 414, KSM 32/44 or whatever else is around and might sound good through a Disressor or RNC.
Charles
Originally posted by jeronimo:
Hey gie, your setup is pretty close of what I'm planning to have. How do you like it? Do you have anything recorded with it that you can share with us!? And thanks for all the posts yall...
Sorry can't share anything on that setup.
Why not?
-because I only used it 2 times (normally I don't use a "budget" setup...), and I'm not allowed to put MP3's of them on the internet.
Sorry :(
I recorded a couple drum tracks the other day that sounded phenominal. I credit the room I record in for most of the sound. It's the first floor of my apartment, deeper than it is wide, with 12ft.+ ceilings and a basement (the basement is about 5ft. deep, and the only thing between the roof of the basement and the tracking room floor is the wood flooring). The accoustics of the room still need a little taming, but taht's ok for now.
The drummer has an interesting set-up; most of the action happens in the snare-area (his floor tom, ride, china, splash, hi-hat, etc. are all there); he has one mid tom in the middle, a low-mid tom where the floor tom usually sits, and a crash between the two.
Anyway, on to the point:
I used an NT1 about 4ft. back, placed directly in front of the kit even with the cymbals and aimed at a downwards angle. I had an EV N/DYM 4XX (discontinued model, extra presence in the hi's) next to the low-mid tom, about 1.5 ft. away from the drummer's right arm, pointed at the snare; and a Shure BG-57a (I think) underneath the snare-side cymbals, about 6 inches off the ground pointing up and towards the high-hat. The bass drum wasn't quite there, but we all loved the rest of the kit sound, so we propped a cheap radio shack mic up with a shirt, next to the floor about 1in. from the bass drum, and turned the EQ bass & high all the way up. It was mixed directly to a stereo track, so I had the two side mics panned hard left & right and got the levels where the average peaks were even on either side; the room mic got mixed in centre at about half that volume, and the bass drum mic got mixed in...well, somewhere where it sounded nice, and in the centre.
Maybe that's too much info, but I felt like typing to read my own post. =D Next time I do a kit, I want to see what sound I'll get from a pair of X-Y NT1's as overheads and a bass drum mic (probably an SM58 or the Shure Beta Green mic again, as opposed to the handy radio shack SM-57 knockoff). Hmm. =D
I can't believe how many people still use D112's. The ATM 25 totally kills it. I love what the engineer I intern under says about the D112 "if you mic a kick with a d112 its going to sound like a d112 regardless as to what kick youre miking". My setup at home works like this.
kick- atm25
snare-57 or this crappy dynamic that distorts and makes the snare really crack (black mic, i have no idea what it is but sounds awesome)
toms-421's, these are really low in the mix but just there in case i need them... can be replaced with anything, i lucked out on a pair for $300
OH's-octava 012's cardiod capsule
Room-rode ntk or a pair of 012's with the omni capsules.... only when my friend brings them over.
My general drum setup is:
Kick - AT25, or D112
Snare - Beyer M201 or Shure SM57
High Toms - Sennheiser 504s (same as 604s) or SM57s
Floor Toms Sennheiser 421
O/H - Audix TR40s, Shure SM81s, MXL 603Ss, or Oktava MC012s.
For the few times that I've miked the hihat, I'll use a Beyer M201 on the backside of the hat, pointed towards the snare.
My first time miking a kit was a few months ago,
but I was very happy with the dominant sound
being a TLM103 out in front of the kit about 10 ft. I have a big room (@30x30 w 10 ft ceiling and carpet floors)
In addition to that I had some mics from a
budget AT mic kit that I used on
kick and snare. Used 57s of all things as
overheads, and surprisingly they worked OK, but
with hindsight I'd recommend hotter mics like
the condensors most are mentioning.
I tracked through Symettrix 488 compressors to a Paris DAW.
Overall, I'm happy with the sound. I like the control over the snare the snare mic gives. The weakest element of the micing I felt was the kick.
Shane
Bear, I tracked my band's demo about 2 months ago, and I used a RE-20 on the kick and 421s on the toms... I liked the sound of the RE-20 on the kick while on the studio, but when I'm mixing at home... it's not nat great... it does need a lot of 6K for some attack and a little 63 to fill the kick a little better... I would have one on my set, but... sometimes (like this time) we "forget" to spend the necessary time on placement (or maybe I didn't have all that time... :) ) and later we have some trouble to make things cut thru the mix... but thanks for the info... I'll check the M-201s and the RE-15s! Thanks
I'm working on my band's cd currently. Most of the tracks were done with a d112, some with a 58 (which seems to work pretty well, actually).
I brought a 2nd hand atm25 after most of the recording was done, and used it on the song I'm currently working on. The atm25 was used a touch off axis just inside a hole in the front skin. I've got an ok sound at the moment (cut at 400, roll off <50, very small boost at 125, small boost at 6k), but was wondering what setting others might be using... I would like to get more of a "snap" to it, or something... Still a bit "boomp"
Other mics I use are a couple of peavey 480 condensors as overheads and a 57 on snare.
I normally use an x-y on the overheads, but tried something I read in an audio magazine in australia (the column was "Stav's Word", don't know the issue). He said to find the place in the room where the floor tom was most resonant, and place the 1st overhead where its sounds loudest (by walking around the kit, moving head up and down). Then build the kit around the floor tom. Repeat procedure for the 2nd overhead. I've only tried this once, and the overheads ended up being a good 6 feet away from the kit on either side of the drummer.
But, the drum sound on that track came up pretty good.
An x-y setup is way less trouble though.
FWIW: What microphones I use for drums vary greatly depending on a lot of variables (song/drummer/kit/room/available outboards). I prefer to use as few mikes as possible, most often I use some combinations of the following mikes:
Kick: D12e/D112/AT-25/MD-421/C-3000 B
Snare: SM-57/EV BK-1
Toms: Milab D-37/SM-57
Floor tom: D-37/MD-421
OH/Ambience: Calrec 1050/SM-81/KSM-32/KM-84/Microtech Gefell UM-70
(I seldom mike Hihat, but when I do I often try Calrec 1050 first)
/Mats
I've had quite good luck with the following:
Kick: Sennheiser e602 (amazing mic, I use it for bass too)
Snare: SM57
Rack tom: SM58
Floor tom: SM57
Hat: AKG D880 (with windscreen removed, out of the airflow path)
OH: Pair of Marshall V57M, about 3 feet over the cymbals, spread by about 3 feet, set equidistant to the center of the snare head to avoid phasing issues.
The V57M is a $99 large-diaphragm condensor that is a Mars Music exclusive. Not the most rugged mic in the world, but it sounds _very_ nice, especially considering the price. I think it's probably a relabeled 2001.
I own both a D112 and an e602, I've also owned a PV 520i (but we won't talk about that), also Live I've used an SM91 and Beta 52. all i can say is I'd buy a 91 right now (if they made them still.. the betas are a bit crap) or the 52. The 602 is a fab mic though (way better than the d112) fuller bottom end and great attack in the top end.. as mentioned before sounds good on Bass too.
On a budget for condensers? the PV 480i sound good and have a really wide pickup. I've recorded violins, harps as well as hats/overheads with them and they sound good (obviously I'd buy a pair of KM184's instead but $$$ is the problem as usual)
Sennheiser have a new evolution mic based on the cardiod version of the K6 mic... priced nicely too from what I can see
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://sixpence.tri…"]Sixpence Studios[/]="http://sixpence.tri…"]Sixpence Studios[/]
I don't know if anyone else is using them, but I really like EV 408 or 408B (newer version) on toms. The way some drummers set up their cymbals, 451s are sometimes impossible to fit around the kit. The 408 series captures a very punchy sound, and with the small egg-shaped body mounted on a swivel yoke, it's really convenient for slipping into tight spaces. I'm not sure EV still makes them - maybe check the website. Otherwise, keep your eye out for used ones. On live gigs they also make a nice trombone mic. The 308 series is a little less expensive version, but I haven't tried it myself. I've read about a number of engineers liking some of the mini clip on mics (can't remember the model: ATM35 maybe?) for toms, but haven't tried those yet either.
Originally posted by cjogo:
Still tracking using MIDI pads only---21 pads direct to a Kurzweil 2500 rack---10 separate outputs to the board --great drums everytime--easier punches and simple corrections---No leakage problems--can track directly along with an accoustic instrument or a vocalists in the same room ....
cjogo http://fp2k.redshift.com/cjogo/crystalrecording.htm
Not disrespect, but, what about all the _millions_ of different sounds that a real drumkit literally can provide? Don't you limit your sonic options severely by using a midi-kit only? Same "real" kit & different players = very different sound.
Leakage can be a problem if you track another source in the same room but if tracking drums only, leakage is not a problem - it's an asset IMNSHO! I consider the entire drumkit as ONE musical instrument. (You wouldn't say: "I have such problems with leakage when recording piano, I wish I could track each string with complete separation", would you?). The sound of any acoustical instrument is the sonical result of all parts contributing to the sounding output.
Having said that, I need to clarify that I'm fully aware of the fact that we all face different situations and realities every day that we must cope with according to what's available and needs to be acomplished. Each to his/her own.
/Mats
Have used all of the following in different configs.
Kick: ATM25, AKG D112, "AT Pro25"
Snare: "SM57", Audix D1 or D2, MXL 603
Rack toms: Audix "D2's", ATM33's
Floor tom: 421, ATM25, "D2"
O/H: "ATM33's", AT4041's, MXL603's, AT4050's, AKG3000
Room: TLM103, "MXL67", AT4050, AKG3000 :(
I can't answer the budget issue but the one's in " " are the least $. If you've got a good drummer, kit and most of all arrangement, the mics ain't gonna matter that much.
I've gotten some of the best snare sounds with the 603 on the side of the snare under the hi-hat.
Wayne in LA (Lower Alabama) :D
Originally posted by Bob:
I often have to use close mics because of room acoustics. I use AKG C418's on toms.
An Engineer-friend-of-mine recently playd back some recordings he had done with C418's on toms wich I really liked...
I have to look into these little baby's.. ;)
Bob:
-Do you use them al the time?
-Why did you choose this mic? (did you compare with others? Like the 604?)
-What are the Pros & Cons?
ThanX!
I use a D112 on Kick, SM57 on snare, C418's on three toms and a CAD CM17 for overhead. The CM17 turns out to be a really clean warm mic for hardly any money. I'm not sure they still make them but I bought five of them for $69 each and use them for acoustic guitars, fiddle, banjo, mandolin, sax and even vocals on occasion.
I run the kick and snare through a compressor and since the kit is used mostly for rock and roll I'll track the drums to analog tape and mix down to two track digital. Slamming the levels on analog really makes the drums fat.
I have using a 4 mic set-up to track drums. The mics I use are the following:
Overheads: I was using a Rode NT-1 and an MXL 2001 (I have recently upgraded to a matched pair of Nuemann TLM 103)
Snare: Shure SM57
Kick: Audio Technica ATM25
Coz