Shure SM58

Acoustic and electric guitar, assorted strings, possibly hand held percussion.

Read what I post before answering, not just the topic. There is no chance of me getting that mic.

You should try out all the mics you list before making a decision. Also, this has been discussed on numerous occasions right here. Use the search function or spend the time going through the various posts regarding your question.

BTW. Your reactions to folks making what might be a very wise choice for you, will determine the amount of 'help' you receive. A simple 'thanks even if its something you have looked into will go much further than some pissy response.

He read your post, so did I. Do a search on this forum on the Fathead. You'll find that a very experienced moderator here, RemyRAD, and another, JoeH, had very different opinions on that mic. I would certainly not recommend a ribbon as a "first" mic. They are definitely a "niche" mic, and need to be handled VERY carefully to avoid damage, no matter who the manufacturer is.
I'm curious; which of these mics have you actually USED? You dismissed the SM57/58 very quickly. Why? Unless you are seriously treating the acoustics in your basement (and I don't mean some egg cartons on the wall), an LDC like the B1 or the ADK's (I own a Vienna and am very fond of it...in the right situation) can create more problems than they solve. LDC's are notorious for having poorer off-axis coloration than a smaller-diaphragm. When you combine that with their wider pick-up pattern, you can get a muddy "room sound" because the mic is picking up too much of the environment. A "live sound" mic, like the SM58, has a much tighter pattern, less off-axis crap getting into the foray. For $100, I'd say get an Audix i5 for prercussion and overall instrument mic'ing, and a 58 for vocals.
But what do I know...my "first mic" was 30+ years ago.
Over 250 mics bought, sold, swapped, and stolen. Happy Holidays.

I've used both the SM57 and 58 before, to respond to your question. I like them for what they are, a good all around mic, but that really isn't what I'm looking for. I'll be recording acoustic and electric guitar, possibly some other acoustic strings. That's all. When I need a mic for vocals, I will buy one for vocals. When I need one for kick, I'll buy one. I'm sorry about my anal response, but I've spent countless hours online getting the same crap about those mics. Now, I know you're going to say "there's a reason" but I've used them and I know that's not what I want.

I don't need enough to record a whole band right now. I'll be building up over time. And to make up for costs, I'm doing things like building my own acoustic treatment, mooching software off of a rich friend who was upgrading, etc.

Lastly, I'm sorry I didn't look farther into you're archives of threads. I read three about the fat head, and they didn't really answer my questions, because they were either something I already know, or discussing using it in another application. I will look further.

You've got quite a list of mics there. I assume you've tried them all.

I want to break that "sterile" feel of what I've been screwing around with so far, plugging straight into the mixer.

Tell us more about the "sterile" feel - have you got any examples?

How many different mixer / mic preamps have you auditioned?

I don't...actually...have a mic pre right now, I'm using the on board mixer pre. It's alright for now, better than I expected. As for mixers, I tried out some behringers, other phonic models, mackie, and yamaha.

I'd like to eventually (a year from now?) get maybe a RNP or something in the $500- area, but I have yet to try many.

I have the mixer I do because I got an undeniable, screaming deal on it. It's just the size I need and in near perfect condition. I started looking into ribbons because of the thin, bland feeling tone I get in it. That is, though, plugging straight in. The only mic I own is a Ross dynamic which was used for harmonica for the longest time, and actually kind of...well...sounds like something crawled in my tone and died.

I'll post a little sound clip here in a second.

Cool.

Now, think carefully about this one:

In your opinion, which mixer sounded the least colored out of the list that you have there - which was the most transparent?

well...probably the mackie. It was well out of my price range, though.

Here's a sample. It's just a couple of chords and a scale, first on the neck pickup then the bridge.

http://www.mp3crib.com/users/514-aaronp-e39897/samp2.mp3

Can't help but think there is a bit of operator error going on here.

My first thought is; what are you plugging your mixer into? Directly into your soundbasher card? That could be half of your problem right there.

Honestly, I've gotten passable results (not good but surprisingly not bad either) from a Shure PG 57 (the budget younger brother of the sm57. Essentially a snare mic) on a crappy acoustic guitar. It wasn't beautiful but in a pinch you make do.

IMHO making do is what shapes you. You can go and buy more gear but if you're using the same techniques, what's to say that you aren't going to get the same if slightly better results?

I do also need to get an interface, and that WILL help my sound tremendously. right now I plug into the POS on board sound card. I want to get a firewire or PCI interface, but the specific model will be whatever presents itself. Edirol, M-audio, presonus, RME Fireface 800... you know, budget stuff.

Ok just listened to the clip. What amp are you using? It's bone dry so, I'm not exactly sure what you are expecting. There wasn't anything dynamic going on. That is, you weren't inducing any breakup by strumming harder. Yeah it was pretty blah but what you were playing wasn't really saying "check this out" tone wise. What style do you play? Jazz? Rock? Country? That sample didn't insinuate any style at all. In which case it was as sterile as the intent put upon it.

I guess that's true. I was playing direct, no amp, no mic, to show you kind of what I meant by sterile. I'll plug up to the amp and do another.

Well, I was about to post a little diatribe about low cost mixers, but I can wait. Please humor us and throw up another clip.

AaronP wrote: I guess that's true. I was playing direct, no amp, no mic, to show you kind of what I meant by sterile. I'll plug up to the amp and do another.

That kind of defeats the purpose now doesn't it? If you're intent is to give an example of how your mic is sterile, you should post an example of how the mic reproduces your tone. Or am I missing something here.

Feliz Navidad, in the Christmas spirit. As you can hear, the mic i have just sucks all the warmth out and leaves me with this....this suck. I played this with a Carlo Robelli jazz guitar through a fender deville 2x12. Bass was at 12, mid at 7, treble at 5, no drive.

http://www.mp3crib.com/users/514-aaronp-e39897/feliz%20navidad.mp3

Just to add, after Christmas I think I'll have about....$150 to spend on a mic, plus anything else I can scrounge up. Hopefully I'll get a job a little before spring(I'm in high school) and be rakin in a whopping $50 a weekend, or so.

Okay. My next question is: What are you listening on.

Oh, ummmm........ well, I don't know what they're called....or where I got them....

They have "Gateway" written on them... That's probably bad, huh?

Oh wait, the logo is "UL" in a circle. What's that? *sarcasm*

Anyway, they're ultra-suck.

A better answer to Hueseph's question would have been "I'm listening on some small computer desktop speakers".

I can also take completed mp3s over to the surround stereo in the living room. It's alot better.

*geek steps out of the closet. Extreme lisp from braces*

You know the only way to kill a troll is to burn him with fire or acid when he's down. That's why I have my +3 staff of fireball casting.

*steps back into closet*

Now on the other hand. How are you supposed to know if you're hearing what you recorded if you're listening on crappy little speakers? You listened on the stereo and it sounds ok. Good! Next time use a wav file and I bet you'll be amazed at how much better that sounds.

As you can see, there is more to the sound than what you think you hear. Even slightly better computer speakers will probably do you better than what you currently have.

At any rate make the best of what you've got. Forget about spending money until you can make it sound "awesome"(relatively speaking) with that bit of gear you already have.

I like that kind of advice. I have no problem with not spending money, as I come from a long line of Jews.

Here's something I did with my Ross mic, a $3 adapter, and Audacity freeware:

http://www.mp3crib.com/users/514-aaronp-e39897/Johnny%20B.%20Goode%20intro.mp3

uh.....alright. I'm not going to lie to you. Beyond the hissssssssssss it didn't sound that great. Your performance was fine but there's definitely some issues there. Lot's of clipping....err....unwanted distortion. Levels are too hot. Turn that gain knob down.

This geek steps out of the closet.
"Guitar wizard needs better mic, mixer, and ADC... badly"

Rolls 2D20 - pick child-proof lock on kitchen drawer succesful.
Retrieves +2 bottle opener of heightened reasoning.
Wielding +2 bottle opener, rolls 1D4 - success - opens 2nd Heineken.

:lol:

hueseph wrote: uh.....alright. I'm not going to lie to you. Beyond the hissssssssssss it didn't sound that great. Your performance was fine but there's definitely some issues there. Lot's of clipping....err....unwanted distortion. Levels are too hot. Turn that gain knob down.

On that Johnny B Goode I didn't have the mixer yet, or any software to fix it up all fancy. With what I have now I can make it sound fairly good if I have a couple of hours to spend setting up. The mixer has really been a big step up for me, along with the software I know have (cakewalk).

OK, that being said... When did you record the Feliz Navidad bit?
Whatever that was done on has a serious bout of DC Offset - this can be traced back to nearly all consumer level sound cards.
Also, it has those artifacts (clicks and pops) that Hueseph mentioned.
Those entering into the picture are going to keep anything you throw at it from sounding 'fairly good'.
Not to mention the hiss, it's way over the top.
You are not following the basic tenet of gain structure, are you?
It's in my signature below, in case you were wondering...

Its okay to be young and inexperienced. Its not Okay to be a young fool.

You are hearing the reality of what your trying to accomplish. Take heed. By accepting what you're being taught, you can move forward and be successful. Listen and learn. If you're not interested in learning, dont be surprised or offended at the results.

First. Phonic does not make very good sounding mixers. Usable, just not even close to a USED MACKIE of which there are around a million or so in circulation AND for sale. A GOOD soundcard is a cheap way to improve the sonic signature of a recording. Cheap cheap cheap.......compared to the alternative. A SHURE SM57 is a 600% better mic than what you have now. No matter WHAT you think you NEED, you arent even close to demonstrating the ability to sound good.

LEARN learn learn. Listen. ANd for Gawds sakes pay attention.

hey bent I'm sure you've posted an article or two about gain structure on here, wanna link me to it? PM it to me if you don't mind.

thanks bro

AKG C1000S if your looking for mics on a budget.
We did a drum kit the other week and used 2 for overheads, if you put them in the right place they are damn good!

Ie: the air vents lol

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I'd like to get some decent monitors so I can frikn hear what I'm frikn doing. Right now it's sort of guess-and-check experimentation.

So, then, is it this that I should invest in first? The interface? The mic? I have frequent problems with the sound card, sometimes it lapses into this regular pop-pop-pop-pop every half-second or so. ruins the whole take. Then again, my mic is so suck there's nothing that I'm really missing when the take gets screwed. But how do I fix either of these if I can't hear them?

It's like...chicken and the egg.

Well it would be nice if you had something a little better than what you have to listen with but don't go and blow a buck fifty on monitors that are so so anyway. It'll be pointless considering the gear you currently have. But, find a pair of speakers that at least have some sort of woofer or a reasonable full range speaker even. It doesn't have to be fancy at this point in the game. Save the big bucks for when you're ready to buy a full hobby studio set up. If you buy piece buy piece, you'll never know if what you bought was a mistake or not. Your sound quality is only as good as the weakest link in the chain and of all things don't let that be you!

Sounds good to me. I can probably get a decent pair of speakers for like $20-30. easy.

Another question, while I have your attention. Do you think my mixer was a good purchase? I already got Davedog's "Phonic does not make very good sounding mixers" seal of doom. I mean, you'd have to be stupid to say that johnny b goode sounded cleaner than feliz navidad, but that's about as far as my experience with mixers and pre's and all that expensive stuff goes.

SOUNDCARD! Get a new one, preferably a FW or USB one!

:!:

I would trust DDog's judgment. He didn't get where he is from not knowing his gear. If you must have an answer from me though....it's not what I would call prime gear. You get what you pay for after all.
And yeah, a usb interface is cheap these days.

Well, check out what these went for:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TASCAM-FW-1804-FireWire-Audio-MIDI-Interface-MINT_W0QQitemZ260189452196QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41784QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/MOTU-828-Firewire-Audio-Interface_W0QQitemZ250197165030QQihZ015QQcategoryZ41784QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/MOTU-2408-MKII-Audio-Interface-with-324-PCI-card_W0QQitemZ270195062835QQihZ017QQcategoryZ41784QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Like I said. You get what you pay for.

Well I paid a crisp $65 for my mixer.

New:
http://www.azmusicpro.com/shop/product_view.asp?storeID=23UWQQAXLPSW8H365Q929KNJR8500439&menu=&seg=0&brand=Phonic&brand_id=818&private_brand=&pr=123120&priv=0

I'm not concerned about what you paid for anything.

I'm saying (again) get yourself a better ADC for your computer, and a 57 for your guitar.

I dont care what the prices on them are, who can get you what for the lowest price, nor which truck they fell off of. Save up a few bills and get something better than what's currently sitting in your CPU.

DC, hiss, crackles and pops... That doesn't cut it, my man.