Josephson's should be great. You might want to look at a pair of Earthworks TC20 (AKA SRO's) or if you can stand to spend a little more the TC30k. The Earthworks are omni vs the Josephson which are cardiod. So they solve different problems.

Steve

Hey thanks so much. I added the SRO's and 30's to the list. I'll check them out. I'm not shure about getting omni's, I've never used them before. I'm worried that my room might not sound good enough for the omni patterns. I see that you sell these mics, send me an email with pricing and availibility if you will. Thanks

reverbdeluxe2000@yahoo.com

Any one with these mics care to share??

Its a good idea to worry about the sound of your room when considering omnis.

You really need to try mics before you buy them. Find a pro audio dealer that will let you do this or at least provide a reasonable return policy.

Also, because of my position as moderator I am going to ask that you go to another Earthworks dealer for a quote. I recommend Earthworks because I use them on almost every album I record.

Thanks for asking though.

Steve

I have a matched pair of Earthworks TC-30K's. Yes they are a lil pricey, but they are definately worth it in my opinion. I have yet to use them on something that they sounded horrible on. Granted, they aren't always picked over some of the other mics, but they always sound good. I mostly use them for OH's and Acoustic Guitars. ALtho on the right voice, they work very well for vocals too.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another pair if they were stolen or if they broke down.

One con that i will mention is that they are quite fragile, as you could prolly tell just by looking at the pic. the capsul is so small and the neck is very thin. I'd immagine that one drop on the capsule end would do some pretty significant damage. Also, i had a problem with one. It had much more noise than the other one did at high pro levels, and it also crackled a bit, but earthworks was glad to help. they even paid for all the shipping.

Hope this helps

Thanks sdevino and marching ant for the input. Ant, that is one thing i'm scared about is drummers nailing these things. I have a wild man behind the kit now and he's already dinged my MK012. Sounds fine, (perhaps even better...ok not..) but I like the fact that the Josephson C42 looks like a tank. Any other users out there? I don't want to spend the $ unless it's gonna be a big improvement over the MK012's so keep that in mind please. Thankx

That's not a "wild man", that's a shitty drummer. Make the motherfucker pay for fixing the mic.

Hitting the drums consistently is part of his job... if he can't fucking do that then he shouldn't be playing drums.

Now, with that said, pretty much all the mics you've mentioned are pretty bullet proof when it comes to things like have a moron hit them... of the mics mentioned, I've found that C-42's generally make the better set of drum overheads, especially with Zildjian cymbals... with Sabine's and Paiste's they might be a bit 'zippy' on the top [not a whole lot more so than the Earthworks, but still a bit more so than I generally like... as always, YMMV].

Re: Any Josephson C42 or Earthworks TC 30k/SRO users out the

J-3 wrote:
Josephson C42
Audix M1290
KM184
KM 84 (if I can find them used)
AT 4051
Gefell 300 (prob can't afford them)
Earthworks TC 30k or SRO's (omni's)
any others??

Good choices. Though, I don't think you should have to upgrade from the Oktava's. As long as you have a good pair of them, they are great mics! However, if you feel the need to spend more money, then most of the mics in your list are good.

However, since you seem to have a drooling dip-shit of a drummer, you might want to avoid the Audix M1290. I'm a huge fan of these mics for many things, but I don't think they would take too many beatings very well. Don't get me wrong, they're not the most fragile mic in my locker, but they are small and a decent sized dent could put you in danger of damaging the internal workings. If you like Audix (and I do,) try their SCX-One's. They're pretty good too and can take a beating.

BTW, if you're worried about the $$ difference between the matched pair Josephsons, then the KM84, KM184, M300s are out of your price range. And, for what it's worth, spend the money to get the matched pair of Josephsons. While I've been seriously impressed with the stuff to come out of their shop, there are some minor inconsistencies (as there is with pretty much all mics). Matching them will be a big help.

Fletcher:

Paiste's and Sabine's zingy? Nah! They have a magical quality of sound to them - much like that of a trainwreck, or fingernails down a chalk board, perhaps even serated knives through the ear drums. But that is regardless of the mic choice. :)

Well Cucco, you do bring up a good point. I think the MK-012's sound pretty good, but I've only had real use of the MK012's, a SM-81 and Shure 4.1 bg's (?) I liked my Rode NT2 untill I got my Neumann TLM-103 to my ears this made a huge improvement in my sounds. I was hoping going from the MK012's to KM184s or C42's would have the same WOW! impact. Do any of you guys with experiance with these mics think it'll be a WOW! or a yep they sound good too, perhaps a little better???? If I don't upgrade overheads I certainly could use the money toward another pre or tom mics or ..............

any suggestions very much appreciated. Thanks

Hey Cucco, I just read on anther post where you said the C42's are a worldclass mic and will portray the subtle details and thill me for a life time (hope I got that right). That's what I'm talking 'bout. THe MK-012's are getting the job done, but I want to up the stakes and get as close to Holy Shit! as possible. If an absolute upgrade in sound is to be had then it's worth the $. Same from going from the C42's to the KM184's or TC 30k's it's a little more money but if they're $400 better sounding than the C42's it's worth the $400. This is where guys like you come in. You guys have had experiance with all of these mics first hand and can give an honest opinion. Much easier than buying, using and returning the mics untill i get a set I like. Unfortunatly that's the only way I know of around here to test gear out. I'm leaning towards C42's moslty because A. they're cardiod (i've never used omni's and I figure I can order the omni caps for the MK012s) and B. every review I've read about the C42's say they bring out somethng magical in what's being recorded. Anything I'm missing?? Thanks so much for your valuable time and invaluable experience.

J-3:

You're absolutely right, I love the Josephsons. However, under the right conditions, I love the Oktava's too. There are times when I will absolutely have uses for the Oktava's and nothing else will do. All that being said, if you want to add the Josephsons to your closet and not replace your Oktavas, then this is probably a smart move.

FWIW, I would take the Oktava's or the Josephson's over the KM184 any day. For that matter, I would take the SP C4 over the 184. I think these things are some of the biggest pieces of junk to come from the Neumann factory in a long time. If you're looking at something in that price range, check out the Gefell M300's. They are everything the Neumanns wish they could be.

As for the omni's - 80-90% of the mics in my locker are omni. However, I also record acoustic music exclusively too. But, only a few years ago (okay, more like 8 years ago, damn I'm getting old!) all of the mics in my closet were some type of directional mic. I think the marketing guys at Earthworks have it right when they say, once you learn how to use an omni effectively, you never go back!

Just some more thoughts. Good luck with your decision. (BTW - omni capsules on the Oktava - good purchase - make sure you get them from Sound Room though.)

J...

Cucco wrote: Paiste's and Sabine's zingy? Nah! They have a magical quality of sound to them - much like that of a trainwreck, or fingernails down a chalk board, perhaps even serated knives through the ear drums. But that is regardless of the mic choice. :)

Sheesh... I try to be polite once... but yeah, that was exactly what I meant.

J-3 wrote: I liked my Rode NT2 untill I got my Neumann TLM-103 to my ears this made a huge improvement in my sounds.

Note to J-3, bring extra clothes, particularly underwear should you ever experience a real mic....

---------------------------------------------

Another thought, one that is actually cost effective... FWIW I've been digging the Avenson [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.harmony-…"]STO-2[/]="http://www.harmony-…"]STO-2[/] in a big way in all the applications where I would have thought to employ a TC-30K.

Just a thought, not necessarily a good one.

Paiste's and Sabine's zingy? Nah! They have a magical quality of sound to them - much like that of a trainwreck, or fingernails down a chalk board, perhaps even serated knives through the ear drums. But that is regardless of the mic choice.

Which Sabians do you have experience with? I'm curious because for the most part they sound very similar to Zildjians...they're made using the same secret Zildjian family formula in the old Zildjian factory where a lot of the Zildjians many of us know and love (manufactured before about 1982) were made, by the same people...

Paiste cymbals are another thing entirely...different forumula, different method of manufacture, different philosophy...although there are times when I really like the sound of some of their higher-end lines.

Oh, and I have a pair of SRO's and I love them. Even in less-than-ideal environments they've done well for me. You can move them closer to the source without problems, which can often negate or at least mitigate the negative qualities of a room.

-Duardo

Sweet, now we're getting somewhere. A post isn't a good post untill someone needs new underwear. Yes, Fletcher I agree the TLM 103 isn't "killer" but it's a big jump in the right direction from the NT2 (imo). I just heard a acoustic gtr clip from "the listening sessions" and compared a V69 Mogami to the 103 and the damn MXL mic sounded better, way better. Now, in real world use that may not be the case as I really can't stand to even listen to MP3's much less discern criticly between two mics. I have thought of selling the 103 and upgrading but I figured there were better areas to upgrade first such as the MK012 to C42's etc. What would you suggest as a logical upgrade for the 103? I've heard good things about the ADK mics also the Ifet 7 and U195 come to mind.

Fletcher, reguarding the Avenson mics. I just checked your site and read the review to the link you sent. They look pretty sweet except I'm not shure about the roll off of highs as the chart shows. I really wish I had a set of omni's to experiment with before I make this big purchase. I think I'll go ahead and order the omni caps for the MK012's so I can do some experimenting. Unfortunatly i have to make the big purchase soon for a big session coming up.

Here's a ? to all of you. Which is easier to get nice sounds as overheads cards or omni's? My room is ok (you can see where the kit sit's if you click on the link below) and I'm willing to do even more room treatment. I just want to get a nice set of mics that will last a long time and be a definite upgrade from the MK012's. Looks like it's getting down to the C42's the SRO/TK30's and perhaps the Avenson. Thanks guys.

cuccoo do you have any experience with the km 183? du they also sound shitty? i loved the km 84i, whic h was the predecessor of the km 184. it sounded wonderful on any saxophones, wood instruments or guitars...is there an omni version of the m300?

I don't believe there is an Omni version of the M-300... the only thing a KM-183/184 has in common with a KM-184 is the shape of the body tube. The capsule is different, the amplifier is very different, the sound is totally different, and not in a good way [IMNTLBFHO].

The MT Gefell/Neumann M-296 are some of the sweetest sounding omni directional mics I have ever experienced... a true joy!!

J-3 wrote:

Fletcher, reguarding the Avenson mics. I just checked your site and read the review to the link you sent. They look pretty sweet except I'm not shure about the roll off of highs as the chart shows.

Check the scale of the chart. It's very little rolloff.
These Avenson mics are of interest to me, too.