Studio Projects B1. SE Electronics ? The AT2020is not an LDC. The capsule is only 1/2". Does that qualify as an LDC?

The best one for you is the one you like the most.

We can sit here all day and spit options at you but they wont mean anything because it subjective.
You're the subject. Go and try them out, hit up a shop, hit up a studio. Test and try and discover for yourself.

Let me rephrase that, what is the best vocal condenser I can get for under $150?

Of all of the cheap condensers, the Studio Projects hold their own consistently. Get a B3 it has patterns and isnt as dark as a B1.

i am with Davedog. sp mics are some of the best value out there right now. i own the c1 and am very happy with it. i paid $149 for new one from my local dealer.

Neumann u87

Davedog wrote: Of all of the cheap condensers, the Studio Projects hold their own consistently. Get a B3 it has patterns and isnt as dark as a B1.

Davedog I have both B1 and B3. It's the opposite in my case - B3 is darker. And that's good because my B1 is a bit too bright.
ThirdBird these are good mics for the money. I bought them when they came out a few years ago and was shocked how good they were considering the price I paid. They are even cheaper now. I could tell you what I like and what I don't like about this mics but it doesn't matter because the ones made now probably sound different. Listen to the mics before you buy them. And remember there is no such thing as "the best vocal condenser for under $150". Greener is right about that.

Oh dear! I bought an MXL 990, and thought it sounded just fine. I guess maybe my ears are shot, but I liked it better than the Audio Testicles mic I tried. (AT2020)

I could show you usable recordings with an AT2020 long before you could show me anything on an MXL990.

Having said that why must you buy new? Get a Blue Bluebird used, and don't ever look back!

And am thinking about the AT2020.

NONONONONONONO! Do not buy that mic. I got it, and it is the most unbearably bright, harsh mic I have ever used. I used a dual windscreen, put a freaking sock over the mic, put a major low pass on 4KHz+, and it was still unbearably harsh on the vocals. I do like it on my guitar cab, but then again I play speed punk. I really would recommend staying away from anything cheap that comes with tubes, because they never sound good. And by cheap I mean under $500. A sm58 costs $100 and sounds better than just about any tube mic under $500 for any application. I reasoned myself in to buying a cheap condenser (AT2020), "because I might as well have a cheap condenser." Well, I learned from my mistake, and that is never happening again. Although, I really do like the AT2020 on my guitar cabinet: gives a nice buzzsaw, grating sound. But it doesn't sound good on anything else, that's for sure. :D

Here we go again..... So I can get a Rode NTK under $500 and its garbage?!?!? Making a blanket statement like that is retarded. I can get a store demoed Rode K2 for under 500, and a new K2 WITH a Rode M3 package deal for $600 and that again is garbage. Blue Baby bottle garbage...see where Im going with this. If you said most condensers under $150 were garbage, I would even still cringe.....SP has some badass mic's right at that range. Dan just not a good reply, try again.

Here we go again..... So I can get a Rode NTK under $500 and its garbage?!?!? Making a blanket statement like that is retarded. I can get a store demoed Rode K2 for under 500, and a new K2 WITH a Rode M3 package deal for $600 and that again is garbage. Blue Baby bottle garbage...see where Im going with this. If you said most condensers under $150 were garbage, I would even still cringe.....SP has some badass mic's right at that range. Dan just not a good reply, try again.

Try applying the same logic to tube guitar amps and see how far it gets you. Cheap condenser mics only sound great to untrained ears. Sure, maybe you can find a used condenser that's $300 to $400 used that sounds AS GOOD as a good dynamic. But you might as well buy the dynamic that sounds just as good for a lot less money. Do you get the point I'm making here?

You are comparing apples to oranges. In a thread asking whats the best condenser mic for >$150 you reply with dynamics. Dynamic mics are going to give you a totally different sound. Good sound is an opinion based statement. But then again I couldn't find a $500 condenser that would rival a Shure Sm58. If you want to talk best mics under $100 you would tell me a Shure SM57-58 is the best, and thats your opinion. I would ask What is being mic'd....and I would probably reply Audix I-5.

I'll say it again, and I don't think there is really anyone who is going to argue that there are really no condensers mics that sound better than dynamic mics under $150 for any normal application. Like I stated already, the AT2020 actually sounds good for getting buzzsaw guitar tones, but how many people really want that? Cheap condensers are always noisy and harsh. The benefits to having tubes doesn't kick in until a higher price point is reached.

I'll say it again...that's a retarded statement. I think anyone on this forum that been recording longer than a day will argue that point with you.

Jeremy wrote: I think anyone on this forum that been recording longer than a day will argue that point with you.

I would argue with some very nice sounding jazz tracks I recorded with a single AT2020 on the overheads, but they are on my computer at home.

You might have gotten a shit capsule.

Or you just have a bad room/placement.
Way too many variables to say it sounds like shit all the time.

And to the point you made on no condensers sounding as good as a dynamic, that is completely dependent on what you are recording and how you want it to sit in the mix.

case and point.....the witness is yours.

I think you have a defective AT2020. Anyway, the Rode K2, Studio Projects T3 are pretty nice mikes. Both around $500.

NCdan wrote: I don't think there is really anyone who is going to argue that there are really no condensers mics that sound better than dynamic mics under $150

ncdan, you're off your rocker. i disagree with everything you've said so far.

no one should believe what this clown says

NCdan wrote: I'll say it again, and I don't think there is really anyone who is going to argue that there are really no condensers mics that sound better than dynamic mics under $150 for any normal application. Like I stated already, the AT2020 actually sounds good for getting buzzsaw guitar tones, but how many people really want that? Cheap condensers are always noisy and harsh. The benefits to having tubes doesn't kick in until a higher price point is reached.

I think this guy thinks all these mic's have tubes in 'em.

Ha...Jeremy I totally missed that. Makes even less of an argument now that you pointed that out...

I think I waited like 5 months until I posted my first thread because I felt like I would sound stupid.

It just makes me mad because you could find almost all of this stuff out by just reading threads/books/articles.

Why post a new thread?

If you wanted to talk cheap tube mics that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

I think you have a defective AT2020. Anyway, the Rode K2, Studio Projects T3 are pretty nice mikes. Both around $500.

I believe I stated that there are no great condenser mics under $500. I'm not saying any condenser mics under $500 are unusable or sound like absolute crap, but, they are NOISY, and tend to be somewhat GRATING. My AT2020 is not defective. My whole point is that a good dynamic mic will sound better than a cheap condenser FOR NORMAL APPLICATIONS. I don't think anyone in their right mind would disagree with that.

I know that not all condenser mics have tubes, but most of them do, and the cheap ones without tubes (and especially with tubes) will, at best, sound about as good as a dynamic mic. My whole point is that a good dynamic mic is probably a better way to go than cheap condensers.

Dan we are ALL arguing that. There are FANTASTIC condensers under $500. What is normal in recording? You need to be thinking outside the box at all times...don't go into projects with a cookie cutter approach. Self noise from the Rode's listed are not terrible, and neither is the bluebird. Dan quit while you are ahead and we only think you are retarded.

There are situations for everything.

I know of people using Behringer omnidirectional measurement microphones as overheads, and it sounds mad good.

You need to get over this whole idea, and quick if you want to continue progressing.

NCdan wrote: I believe I stated that there are no great condenser mics under $500. I'm not saying any condenser mics under $500 are unusable or sound like absolute crap, but, they are NOISY, and tend to be somewhat GRATING. My AT2020 is not defective. My whole point is that a good dynamic mic will sound better than a cheap condenser FOR NORMAL APPLICATIONS. I don't think anyone in their right mind would disagree with that.

I know that not all condenser mics have tubes, but most of them do, and the cheap ones without tubes (and especially with tubes) will, at best, sound about as good as a dynamic mic. My whole point is that a good dynamic mic is probably a better way to go than cheap condensers.

The Studio Projects C3 is a very nice mic $250. Rode NT1000, NT1-A $300, AT4040 $300. The Studio Projects B-1 $99, AT2035 $120.

The more you pay, the better they get definitely. Worse than a 57/58? Depends on the application. Sometimes they are "better" for the situation. I would take a B-1 for an ambient mic over a 57 any day.

I think we need to be careful of blanket statements. They are almost never good.

[quote=NCdan]

I know that not all condenser mics have tubes, but most of them do

That is also a generalization.

Honestly I would say there are more solid state condenser microphones than tubes. I say this because the cost to manufacture these are less expensive.

The reason your AT2020 probably sounds like crap is you haven't upgraded to some kick ass 12AX7's!

While I think that Dan is having a bad night and is wrong on just about every count here, I have to say that I agree with the general idea that at the sub $200 price point dynamics are a much better long term value than condensers. There are plenty of dynamics in that price range that you will keep for life even if you had a lot more money to spend. The condensers you would replace as soon as you got the cash. What's worse, you can get into the trap of "climbing the ladder" and making small marginal upgrades and ending up spending a ton of money without really ending up with a great mic.

Now that I've said something in his favor, I'll take my turn in piling on Dan: The Shure SM 81 is a small diaphragm condenser for $350. I guess you can't call it a great mic when compared to SDCs that go for $3K a pair, but noisy? grating? You will find it in an awfully lot of good studios. And the "'most' condensers have tubes. If by "most" you mean "a small fraction"...

Jeremy wrote: Honestly I would say there are more solid state condenser microphones than tubes. I say this because the cost to manufacture these are less expensive.

The reason your AT2020 probably sounds like crap is you haven't upgraded to some kick ass 12AX7's!

Can you do that? How do you fit the tube into this solid state mic? :lol: Just ribbing ya. It's not a tube mic. In fact You'd be surprised how many people buy a reasonable tube mic only to find out they don't like the way they sound. They can be dark sounding.

On Bob's point:
With all of my 'experience', which basically is me recording a few bands a month, I think I learned that if I want to make anything sound really good, I would go to a real studio. My mics are decent, but I wouldn't spend much money on say a Neumann or nice AKG without first seeing how my money might be spent renting out some studio time.

Just my .02

All righty kiddies....This is a discussion that could last well into next week.

So, lets step back a moment and consider that due to differing circumstances ie: different environments, different musical styles, different instrumentation,different recording gear....etc..etc...there can be a vast difference in personal experiences with these mics. ESPECIALLY at this price point.

The quality control departments for gear at this price arent really heavily involved in their shipping them out to the masses....ergo...You and me.

However we can thank the folks at companies like Studio Projects, ADK, and a couple others who have brought the quality up on less expensive gear. Some pieces to the point that you might choose them over a more expensive brand simply because the sound for a particular source is the right sound. So it is getting better.

Voices definately fall into this category.

Theres a lot of half-truths and no-truths and confused opinions being bandied about on this thread and before it gets becoming a shitfest I feel that it needs to be dealt with appropriately.

Lets find out why we all have these opinions and why they differ so vastly.....Instead of trying to show-our-stuff.

Lets explain our personal experiences with these pieces and how they affected the recordings we produced with them.

I have a lot of experience with different mics and am always willing to try something out that I dont know about. Most of the time I'm pleasantly surprised at the results. Other times I'm not surprised and it turns out to be the piece of crap its been touted to be.

Very seldom does this prove to be tied directly to pricepoint. Except on very high-end things. On these, it becomes a rather smug..."A-HA....Thats the sound " kinda thing tempered by whether or not its the RIGHT sound for the track and whether you can work this into your vision of the sound for the song.

So we can start HERE and go forward.....all who have chimed in please continue, or I can start a new thread about this subject. Which seems to be needed.

Ya'lls call.

Going back to the price point, I've owned an original B-1. It's a decent mic for some things. Nice on acoustic guitar but you have to be careful about placement. Distance always made it sound better on my classical. I found my voice sounded quite nasal with this mic. Sounds better with female vocal imho.

Thats what I'm talking about.

I too have owned a Studio Projects B1 and a B3. I kept the B3 because of the patterns. If i remember correctly, the B1 was right at $100 brand new in the box.I remember thinking it was one of the better $100 I've ever spent on gear as its sound far outweighed its expence. I sold it because I wanted a Kel HM-1. The HM-1, while being a different mic than the B1 and having a bit more limited useage, is by far the superior mic for what I can use it on. I continue to find more uses for the B3 than I thought possible. I use it on the outside of a kick drum. I use it as a drum overhead. A room mic. Banjo. Mandolin. A distant electric guitar mic. Vocals. It never fails to find a place in most sessions.

NCDan has mentioned noise as a problem for these inexpensive mics. While MOST of the cheaper MXL's and B@&%%ger mics I have heard have this problem, the SP mics are dead quiet as are the ADK's, the Groove Tubes, the SE's, the Oktavas, the low end AKG's , the 20 series Audio Technicas, and many other budget mics. Perhaps Dan has a bad one.

I love an AT2020 mashed up against a distorted guitar cab! I even use it as a room mic for vocal sessions, to pick up some nice room ambiance. I have been dying to get a Kel HM-1, I hear great things of that mic.

I once got a pair of Oktava MK319's for $100. Best $100 I have ever spent on mic's period. I still can't believe how great these mics are for capturing live music.

They simply have to be experienced to believe the value. Sure they have some noise, but its the character I'm looking for. Remember the best thing about a DAW is the ease of editing and getting rid of noise when nothing is there.

I also own a real Russian MK-319.I've had it about seven years now. It has to be a 'Wednesday' mic because it sounds GREAT. The tone is almost the same as my mid 80's Neumann U87. Theres some differences but not in the tone.

We call it the Rooskie Newman.

I will eventually get another and do the Michael Joly mods to it.

And yes it was >$100.

I would never hestitate to out this mic up on any source. And I'll be damned if theres very many folks who could tell its not the Neumann.

I assume the MK-319 isn't variable pattern?

I think you guys have a lot of pent up aggression. If you guys actually read what I was saying and didn't take one or two sentences completely out of context, you'll realize that I: 1. Do indeed use cheap condensers for certain applications, 2. Said that cheap condensers aren't downright bad, 3. am not disagreeing with what has been said. I'm just saying that buying a cheap condenser is like buying a Mexican strat. Does it work? Yes. Does it sound good? Depends on what you use it for. In the world of dynamic mics, you get a lot more than you pay for when comparing dynamic mics to condenser mics. My Carvin V3 is great, but I shelled out over $1,000 for it. My Kustom solid state head is downright good, and I shelled out $250 for it. And, believe it or not, I can get every tone I need out of that cheap Kustom guitar head. The V3 is a luxury item that sounds a little bit better for a lot more money. Go ahead and buy a cheap condenser, but don't come crying to me when it ends up mostly collecting dust. :D

"I really would recommend staying away from anything cheap that comes with tubes, because they never sound good. And by cheap I mean under $500. "

Dan please explain how this completely incorrect statement was misconstrued of taken out of context?

The only thing collecting dust is your comments because they are useless. Dan we understand you are a total n00b, but dude don't act like an elitist we see through BS. I am by no means great at the art of recording, and I admit I have been wrong before on this site. Just admit you made a bad call, and lets move on. Otherwise you can ride that dead horse till everyone on this site tells you that you are wrong, and you can still argue with them.

Here's a perfect example: Buy an EV re20 and buy a rode K2. Both are fantastic mics. Put both mics on a kick drum and the RE20 will destroy the K2. Set the K2 as a room mic with RE20, and the K2 will more than likely shine. The K2 would probable be better served as an overhead mic than the RE20. Depending on the vocalist and style of music being recorded each mic has its place....but you told me the K2 is garbage.