x
anonymous 28 February 2003

I own a pair of Mackie HR824s and after being part of that recent huge thread on the Mackies that went on forever, I've decided to sell them and buy a pair of Dynaudio's.

Does anyone have any opinions on the BM6A vs BM15A ?

I'm talking about accuracy in the low end and overall sonic quality, etc, as was discussed in the above mentioned thread.

All opinions are welcomed.

Thanks.

Tags

Comments

anonymous Sat, 03/01/2003 - 07:07

Hi Macaroni !

I too am an owner of HR824's (among other speakers) and some time ago I also had the similar idea - to switch my HR824's for BM15's, cause I was soooo impressed how BM15's sounded when I tested them in a local music gear store... but, after a long time of working with a huge array of different nearfields (including all genelecs, most tannoys, jbl's, event's, & dynaudio BM6a as well) I concluded that the mixes I did on HR824's where the most accurate and translated best of them all, esspecially in the bottom end... BM6's & BM15 are definitely impressive sounding speakers (as all dynaudio speakers are :)

anonymous Sat, 03/01/2003 - 08:07

Hey Hypo...

I really like the Mackies too, but after participating in that mondo thread (did you read it?) a while back, I've decided to change.

Many very experienced and expert contributors explained in detail about the weaknesses of the Mackies in the low end. Not that the low end is weak, but rather not accurate.

As you said the Dynaudios were too nice, many experts felt that the Mackies were also too nice and not as accurate as one would want.

Anyway, I don't want to rehash things again. After much research, I'm convinced the BM6As will be an improvement, so I'm ready to move up/over.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

I've got an almost new set in my sights, so I'm hoping to bag them soon.

anonymous Sat, 03/01/2003 - 22:50

I worked, owned and still own all kind of monitors NS10, EVENT20/20, GENELEC 1031, TANOY REVEAL, JBL4206 and some speakers designed and built by myself but the monitors I like the most are the DYNAUDIO BM6A. They sound great and it is a pleasure to work on them. I worked for more than a year on GENELEC 1031 and it was a strange period. I knew GENELEC is a big name in the monitor busines and thought there is something wrong with me because I didn't liked them.
I bought last year a pair of BM6A and since then I'm happy.
I would also mention that I record classical music not only modern things. The acoustic instrument's sounds are reproduced natural [close to the real instruments].

chrissugar

robb007 Tue, 03/04/2003 - 08:09

Ron !Your gonna love these speakers {bm6as}I spent half the night listening to my favorite cds.I was hearing things like never before .I was as sceptical as anyone, but Ron good choice! Please give us your review and keep us updated ,I think weve really started a dynaudio revolution here !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tu:

anonymous Tue, 03/04/2003 - 08:38

BM6a's all the way!! I've not heard the 15's, but I also can't see spending more than $1500 for a pair of monitors for a home studio. Had mine about a month and love the hell out of them. You should be able to get them for $1500. I know a great place if you want to send a PM I will give you the address and phone number. Good luck.

anonymous Tue, 03/04/2003 - 15:22

I think the BM15As would be a bit to much for my home studio, and they're more expensive too.

I'm waiting for a friend who may be able to get me a special deal... cost + 10%. We'll see.

I've also been watching eBay for a set of used ones, but there aren't many. I'm kicking myself because a few weeks ago before I made the decision to switch, a guy here in the LA area sold a complete surround setup... 5 BM6As & the sub woofer for $2,500!!! He said he only used them to mix 2 movie projects, so they were practically brand new. I don't need surround yet, so I could have sold the others off and made back most of the money. D'oh!

Anyway, I'll let you know when I get them and how they compare to the Mackies. I'm excited!

Hey Logic Lover, I'm a Canadian too - from Hamilton, Ont - and my sister lives in White Rock BC. I also use Logic Audio Platinum 6.0!!!

Thanks for everyone's input. Much appreciated.

audiowkstation Tue, 03/04/2003 - 16:18

Although I use the mighty Yamaha NS1000's, I will cast a vote for dynaudio as well.

As a speaker designer, I exclusively used dynaudio components in all my custom work.

The 17W75 and the D28 were the drivers of choice and using a 6dB /Octave crossover, doing phase alignment and finding the proper driver spacing, that set-up freaked people out. I was more extensive in my crossover scheme than what dynaudio sent me to tweak on.

I then upgraded all my work to the T-330D esotar tweeters. The actual cost of those tweeters in 1986 was 500 per pair. This is the same tweeter used in the eggeston loudspeakers. All of the serious 10 thousand and up speakers used dynaudio components in some form in their speakers. Dynaudio was always a "head" ahead which was their slogan back then.

Being familiar with aperiodic dampning, aerodynamic baskets, huge 3 inch voive coils on 5 inch drivers and pluse ratings to 2000 watts of power, dynaudio driver were the designers staple in the high end. I am happy this tradition has carried over to professional monitors as well. Dynaudio drivers are not quite as eff. as some other drivers out there but one thing about them, they behave. You can get what you need from them.

Having said all of this, I had a pair of the dynaudio Consequence speakers for review a number of years ago. Setup was a bitch because they were a 6 way line array. Once you did get them properly positioned though, they were worth the 20+ thousand they cost. KEF (kent engineering foundry) also had some monster monitors sporting 1200 watts of internal 4 way amplification that was serious as well.

I never cared for the Wilson /Watt/Puppies which was another staple. Even though they used some dynaudio drivers and a focal tweeter, they seemed too "congested" and having mixed a song on the BBSM 10 Westlakes and knowing all the notes, whole patterns of lowest freqencies were starved back on the wilsons. Not once, but in 4 different rooms I heard them in. Could have been the Krell monoblocks that caused this with their unusually high dampning factor but then again, Wilson sold hundreds of this 5 digit speaker system and really, if it were not for dynaudio, they would have never been made.

In 1998, dynaudio made a decision to discontinue supply parts to hobbiest and rogue (like me) speaker designers. I had a design that I not only marketed but spent years developing. I had to look long and hard to find anything I considered as good for the DIY builder but settled on Scan Speak components. Skaaning is the grand daddy of dynaudio and Scan speak components are of his design. Morel acoustics (owned by Mikiel Shabani of Israel) is under liscence to produce dynaudio clones. Very very close to dynaudio components for the do it yourselfer. The top of the absolute line of components are the signature line from Skaaning.

Ejvind Skaaning has a driver called the SK300-304

680.00 for one 12 inch woofer. The 17cm unit (7") the SK 170-308 that I love building around is now 400.00 my cost plus shipping) for one 7" woofer.

Dynaudio speaks for themselves but having built many speaker systems from the entire inventory of Scan Speak, Skaaning and Dynaudio makes you appreciate what the Danes Do.

If I did not have the NS1000's, I certainly would build using Skaaning components. That is a given. The speaker I am going to build as an affordable monitor will use the Morel tweeter though...close!

Not trying to burst any bubbles but the 17W75 in the BM6 cost 114 dollars. The 28MM tweeter is about 80.00. Add 100 for crossover components and now you see the reason Dynaudio cut itself off to people like me that can build better for less. So you have (cost to build with enclosure) about a 380 dollars each speaker selling retail for 1000.00 This actually in loudspeaker manufacturing is a low markup. Manufacture to retail in loudspeakers is usually cost X5. You are paying for quality guts here. (mackie HD824 woofer is about 24 dollars manufacture cost)

Jon Best Sat, 03/15/2003 - 12:08

My $.02 about monitors;

You *cannot* buy monitors based on anything but listening for yourself and expect anything other than random results. I know a few guys that *love* the ADAMs. I don't like working on them. I'd love to have them in the house. I hate Genelecs. Some guys love them. I liked the Mackies OK. Some people hate them. Tannoy is another with big love/hate crowds.

The monitor I do my best work on *will not* be the monitor that most other people do their best work on. This is true of everyone.

You have to listen for yourself! Sure, use internet research to weed down to three or four speakers, but *at least* listen to those ones somewhere. If you have a credit card, buy two sets with the (up front) intention of returning one set after a weekend of listening. Don't do business somewhere where you can't do that.

It's a pretty personal decision, and I hate to see people buying and selling monitors every eight months because they didn't put the work and research in the first time.

Alécio Costa Sat, 03/15/2003 - 13:32

yes Jon, you are right.In fact I bought the NS10´s a few years ago and hated that thing. But lots of people love them. I will test the BM5´s and BM6´s as soon I go to São Paulo, where there is a nice Dynaudio dealer.
The HR824´s were great, but then when I installed them and tried to mix, it was a hide and seek game.

Have you guys enjoyed the BM6 as well as the BM5´s?

Some brazilian mastering engineers use these 2 models for mastering.
so?

anonymous Sat, 03/15/2003 - 17:24

I've had a dynaudio bm15's (left/right) and bm6's (center and surrounds) setup at home for 2 years now, and I absolutely love the way they sound, a few things they seem to be a bit weak is in their overall low end and in their "dynamics"? --meaning if the volume is cranked good 90 - 95 db @ listening spot they sound Great, but on more normal levels, like 75 - 80 db they tend to "hide" the detail, especially evident in the detail of the Bg's.
A Good "loud" subwoofer made #1 weakness go away, and since I like to crank the volume anyways, they are perfect! (for me :D
They are really the best I could and were willing to afford, and so far I'm very happy with them and will recomend them highly.

Hugo de la Cerda
Re-recording mixer

anonymous Fri, 03/21/2003 - 14:40

Well, I've been looking everywhere for a good used set of BM6A's, but I couldn't find any.

So I just ordered a new set, of "B" stock (minor nick or 2, full warranty) for $1,425! The best price for a new set I found was $1,500 cash, $1,530 credit card.

They should be here in a week or 2, so I'll let you know after I've checked them out. I may not be able to A/B them with the HR824's because my eBay auction may close before I get the BM6A's, which means I may be mixing on headphones for a while.

anonymous Thu, 03/27/2003 - 20:13

They're here!!!

I'm listening to them right now.

First, I listened to 5 different CDs for various references on the HR824s, then swapped them for the BM6As. Steely Dan - 2 Against Nature, Richard Bona - Reverence (excellent stuff), Shania Twain - Come on Over, and some of my mixes from various projects.

Here are my initial observations...

-I had to crank the volume quite a bit to match the level of the Mackies, which is actually driving the Dynaudios in a nice way to let the sound bloom nicely and push the speakers to a nice optimal point.
-I couldn't crank the Mackies too much without them getting really loud, and I think it didn't push the speakers to their optimum.

-The Mackies definitely were more bass heavy and when I moved out of the sweet spot, the bass was too much and the detail was lost.
-Not so with the Dynaudios. The sound & detail was pretty consistent everywhere in the room - nice improvement.
-Especially with the Richard Bona CD, which is quite bass heavy.
-The Mackies were vibrating things in the room with the low end, but the Dynaudios were tight and focused and still had lots of low end without mushing out.

-The imaging is better - not a major difference, but definitely noticeable, probably due to the better bass response.

All in all, I'm very happy and glad that I decided to switch. A definite worthwhile improvement overall, in a very critical area of production.

I sold my Mackies on eBay and got $1,025! The Dynaudios were "B" stock and I got them for $1,425 + $57 shipping & no sales tax for Gray Davis to piss away (that useless fuck) :D

I looked very closely and I couldn't find any cosmetic damage, which is what "B" stock means. I think they may have been demoed and returned or something. Anyway, they have a full 1 year warranty and they are perfect for my room and they sound fantastic!

audiowkstation Fri, 03/28/2003 - 19:04

Yes, I will comment on the HD1's

For retail, they are horribly overpriced. For 2 grand a set, they are a good deal.

Great speakers but for that kind of money...you still are settling for an 8" 2way. All the electronics as well.

It is also about value.

You need to consider many aspects when looking for accurate monmitors..if the sky is the limit, then spend what you can afford...up to the sky.

If you want to go beyond the sky, and still keep in budget, consult some DIY speaker outlets and forums that support accuracy, that is least 93dB 1 Watt 1 meter.

It goes deep, out of time for this post now, will do more later...

anonymous Sat, 03/29/2003 - 03:55

Thanks for the response. Moved up from Events 20/20bas and I was in the right place when the the other boxes came around. I agree the retail is bonkers. I was curious as to the way that stack up next to the Dynaudio's. The one thing I noticed is that you cannot bang them as hard as I did the 20's. Then again I can hear a lot deeper into them better if that make any sense. I really appreciate your input. Because I started toward the Dynaudios. Maybe these will hold for a while. Thanks

Jon Best Tue, 04/01/2003 - 15:31

From an alternative viewpoint, I have more often liked the passive versions of a lot of monitors than the active. Very few powered speakers, in my experience, have anything special in the power amps, until you get up into the several thousand dollar range. I'd try both, at least, and try the passives with something solid and midlevel like a Hafler or Bryston. You may be surprised which ones you like better.

Originally posted by Macaroni:
Hi Alecio...

The BM5 & BM6 are the non-powered versions, so depending on how they are amplified they may not represent the full potential of the BM6A's or BM15A's, which are bi-amped with Dynaudio's own technology. I suggest that you focus on the powered versions for best results.

Jon Best Sun, 04/06/2003 - 08:37

Good god, yes. :) That damn Alesis has got to be one of the worst sounding amps I've ever been subjected to. I'm not a big fan of Tascam amps either...

You could get something like an Adcom 535 or similar Parasound for $100-150 used, and it would be much, much better sounding. The idea is, look at smaller (80-150w/side), used audiophile stuff with a good name.

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
thanks Jon
Due to budget, I am thinking to purchase bm5 or bm6, passive models, using a regular amp styled like ra150 (Alesis) or PA 150 (Tascam). is it a sin my friend?
Thanks
:)

audiowkstation Sun, 04/06/2003 - 08:57

Funny Jon, the RA-100's I have used are good sounding amps. Reports of the 300 have also been favorable. Is the 150 (that I have not used) a rat?

I will say this, the capacitance of your input cables can play tricks with various amplifiers "sound".

The Adcom is a good amp for the money..abit a shade bottom heavy though for me. I have had the 535, 545, 555 and the 5800 in here..they are nice..but not up to a Bryston.

Fats swears by the Haflers. Actually, experimentation with various cables yields wild results.

I was very well pleased with the way the r-a 100's sounded on various loudspeakers compared to my reference amplifiers. I do use ultra premium cables though.

The Sansui G series receivers being used as a power amp only are also nice for the bucks. Just bypass the preamp and go into power amp in. They had FQ res of DC to 300K

Jon Best Mon, 04/07/2003 - 18:32

Sorry, it was actually the RA-100 I was referring to. I have very much preferred, in the same situation, a number of Haflers, new and old, the Adcom 535 (which I think sounds better, at least at low volumes, than the larger 500 Adcoms I have heard), the newer Yamahas, all but the cheapest Crowns, and even an old Yamaha P2200. The RA-100 always sounded fairly small to me. I'd put the Samson in the same league.

I've used heavy gauge copper cable for most of my listening life, and I got some heavy Mogami a couple years ago that seems to be good. I've only heard a couple of high end cables, but I generally seem to only hear a difference wrt how much copper is in the cable, vs. who put it there. There's a lot out there that I have not heard, though, so whether it be room, gear, or preference, your experiences are just as valid as mine.

anonymous Mon, 04/14/2003 - 06:50

Well the only things in a cable that can effect an electric current are inductance, capacitance and resitance and there no need to spend much money getting a cable which will perform well in all 3 area's so I wouldn't worry about buying high end one's.

Better of spending the extra cash on something that matters like good speakers.

anonymous Wed, 04/16/2003 - 02:29

Well you are intitled to your opinion that cables make a huge difference but in IMHO the expensive cable thing is a complete con. And its got nothing to do with the quality of the monitoring systems I have heard.

Although different cables can effect amps badly effecting these effects are measurable and are caused by excessive capacitance found in some cables. And funnily the worst offenders are usually the expensive cables.

You can get a pefectly good cable 50p a meter. If you can give me one single scientific, measurable reason that expensive cables give a better sound then I might be interested but so far no one has.

anonymous Thu, 04/17/2003 - 09:10

Just a quick update, since I'm the one who started this post.

The Dynaudio's are definitely much better than the Mackies, especially in the low end and overall imaging.

I want to thank Bill and others for being persistant and engaging me in the original debate that revealed these things, ultimately ending in my switch. A very important element in any studio and I'm very pleased with this particular upgrade.

As far as cables go, you don't have to buy the expensive Monster cables, but I do believe from direct experience that higher quality cables and connectors make an audible difference. I'm using Mogami cables with Neutrik connectors. They're not nearly as expensive as Monster, but a bit more than standard brands, and my ears can hear a noticeable difference for the better.

x

User login