Jon, While I have no experience with CCRMA you spoke of I have toyed with a few Linux audio apps in the past although nothing approaching the level that CCRMA appears to have achieved. They were very stable, the audio quality was excellent and the UI wasn't bad either. All in all a decent product but primitive compared to Cubase, PT etc. Drivers are the biggest issue I see with further development of Linux based audio programs. That said IMO Linux is the OS of the future and you should see better and better audio apps released for it. Maybe Steinberg or one of the other software makers will put out a Linux version in the next few years.

Is that kernel available for download?

Don,
Thank you for replying. Can you expand on your comment of being primitive compared to Cubase and PT. Out of curiosity, how long ago did you toy with Linux audio? I have read (forgot where) that Ardour (http://ardour.org/) is comparable to PT; at least the audio engine. It seems that the drivers issue is also being taken care of with ALSA (http://www.alsa-project.org/). They seem to support most of the pro-level sound cards. I use the Delta 1010 which is supported. Yes, CCRMA is available for download. Here is the link: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/planetccrma.html. What is “IMO Linux,” I have not heard of that distribution? I have started a thread on the ardour-users-ardour.org mailing list asking what the best Linux configuration for me would be, maybe you also have some suggestions. As soon as it is put in the archives is will post a link to it here, but here is my system configuration:
AMD Athlon 64 3200 939 pin (single)
Gigabyte K8NS mobo (nForce3)
1 gb DDR 400 (2-matched Kingston 512 mb)
2-80 gb Segate 7200 rpm sata drives (1-os, 1-audio)
Matrox G550 32 mb dual head video card
M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card
Thanks,
Jon

Here is the link to that thread on the adour mailing list: http://listserver.dreamhost.com/pipermail/ardour-users-ardour.org/2005-March/001830.html.
-Jon

Thank you Jon for posting this stuff... it's all very interesting... almost interesting enough to make me try some of it.

Jon, As David said thank you for posting this great information. I'm going to have to start downloading this stuff and give it a whirl. It sounds like great strides have been made since I last tried Linux audio.

Can you expand on your comment of being primitive compared to Cubase and PT.

Sure, both of the apps I ran did not contain alot of the DAW functions we take for granted now. The layout was almost an afterthought it seemed although with a little practice it was useable. Editing was pretty minimal and the tools were not up to today's standards. MIDI control was pretty sparse also if memory serves. Only a few sound cards were supported as well. I believe both apps may still reside on my old Linux box which is somewhere around here, I'll fire it up and if they are still there I'll post the program titles.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did you toy with Linux audio?

2 maybe 2 1/2 years ago. The one app I favored I used to record a local accoustic guitar duo several times and the tracks were very nice. No complaints about the audio quality that's for sure.

What is “IMO Linux

I'm sorry, it's a web abbrevation for In My Opinion not a Linux distrubution. I was just saying that in my opinion Linux is the OS of the future.

Again thank you so much for providing the great information and links to the resources. It looks like my current Linux box will be getting a big dose of audio work soon. Please keep us updated and also feel free to drop by the DAW's and Computing Forum any time you like, I'm sure some of our users over there will be interested as well.

Just to keep those of you who are interested up to date, I am currently involved in discussions on the ardour-users (http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-users-ardour.org) and PlanetCCRMA (http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma) mailing lists trying to get as much information as possible before I take the plunge. I will post my findings here (and any other appropriate forums) as soon as I get them. Just a note to the mediators: it might be interesting to start a Linux forum just to see what happens.
-Jon

For those interested in Linux Audio seek out a book written by Dave Phillips. I don't recall the title off of the top of my head but I have seen it in Barnes and Noble. He has worked with some heavy hitters in the Linux community in developing audio tools for the platform. I have spoken with him several times and he really lives and breathes it along with being a pretty damn fine musicians as well.

JonLewis wrote: Just a note to the mediators: it might be interesting to start a Linux forum just to see what happens.
-Jon

yeah
I'm no expert but like you I have been watching for some time and Adour is the current high profile package.
I've never loaded Linux but it will happen one day.

Jon,
when you do begin experimenting, let me know and I'll see if I can organise my time to join you.

We had a linux forum once; there were about three posts in it.

yep
I know... but I think a time will come

Ardour is a great piece of software from what I have used. I have been working on the linux platform for a little over 4 years now and I have never had a reason to go back to windows (well maybe a few but I made do :D)

For those of you that are looking to take the plunge.. I suggest you take a look at this website for an all-inclusive distrobution.

http://www.agnula.org/

I am an old guitar player that took a 6-7 year break from playing and I am overwhelmed by the leaps and bounds that recording industry has taken over that amount of time. I've been slowly working with ardour and it it is fullfilling all my home based needs. I will be throwing a band together soon and it seems as this will fullfil all my needs for cutting a demo without ever having to take a trip to a studio.

The only negative I have ragarding recording on linux is some sound cards just do not work with midi at all. The next issue as mentioned above is device driver support. I recommend if any of you have a spare machine to take a look at linux and ardour. Some of you might be suprised, dont forget the fact that it can be had for free :D

I think Kev's idea is a pretty good one. If you guys are interested we can work out the details as a group and share them on this thread. I'm willing to give Ardour a shot as it sounds like it may be the real deal. Maybe others will join in if we get it rolling.

Trey, it seems like you're the farthest along so if you don't mind would you detail your PC hardware and sound card for us.

I'll be using a Layla 24/96, I'll let you know how it goes once I'm done downloading all this stuff.

yeah
I was thinking the separate machine and probably test without a pro card to start with ...

I wouldn't be lucky enough to find a driver for the AMIII card ... would I ?

Big_D wrote: I think Kev's idea is a pretty good one. If you guys are interested we can work out the details as a group and share them on this thread. I'm willing to give Ardour a shot as it sounds like it may be the real deal. Maybe others will join in if we get it rolling.

Trey, it seems like you're the farthest along so if you don't mind would you detail your PC hardware and sound card for us.

I'll be using a Layla 24/96, I'll let you know how it goes once I'm done downloading all this stuff.

Im definatly a newbie at this recording stuff.. But a friend and I are interested in setting up a decent home studio. So we can record whatever we need when we want :D

Anyways.. my setup is nothing major. Its a a celeron 2.5 ghz machine w/ 1GB of ram, and a cheap soundblaster live card (I only use the line in) I am not running the distro I mentioned above.. I am running Slackware 10. Latest version of jack and the latest version of ardour and alsa 1.06

So far the recordings I have done have been with backing tracks. I dont have the equipment yet (or even know what equipment I need) But I have done a few 5-6 track recordings with great success imo.

Anyways.. I'll make you guys a deal.. Ill help you rid your self of the linux noobness if you help rid myself of this recording noobness :D

btw, what is a 24/96?? :confused:

Kev wrote: yeah
I was thinking the separate machine and probably test without a pro card to start with ...

I wouldn't be lucky enough to find a driver for the AMIII card ... would I ?

It doesnt look like alsa (advanced linux sound archtectirure, this is the project that provides drivers for soundcards http://www.alsa-project.org) supports any audio media cards.

24/96

24 bit ... bit depth of the sample
96 K ... sample clock rate

the above link should have read
http://www.alsa-project.org/

I'm happy to use any sound card the group chooses. Don't make it too expensive and I can hag in there.

I have downloaded what I believe to be the iso's I need from Planet CCRMA, six in total of the Fedora Core 1. Thinking of trying this out some day soon.

One question to the people who have actually tried Ardour. How do the available LADSPA-plugs sound? Are there any good EQ's, compressors etc.?

Kev, is it best if we all use the same card? If it is I'll use whatever the group is using also. You're far better at organizing this type of group project than I am so any suggestions or direction you have please feel free to tell us.

My original plan (for myself) was to use my current DAW which has swappable drives and just trade out the Windows OS and Audio drives for the Linux OS and Audio drives. That way I could run either whenever I wanted and also compare the performance of the 2 since the rest of the hardware would be identical.

If it's best to have us all on the same card I'll just use one of my spare machines as another Linux box (I have 2 machines running Linux now).

Let me know guys.

While the group is small I think close to common hardware is good.

My main DAW is PT so I don't expect drivers and ultimately a NON digi unit is a good idea ... if it also will use digi gear then all the better ... I am thinking AMIII 001 002 M-box here.

forget TDM hardware support as it offers only one bonus ... VIRUS plug support.

This is all about open platform so I think recycled cards is a great place to start ... or the clean lined well priced NEW cards with NEW clocks and converters.

There will be enough trouble with the variety of computers .. so once again I think there is merrit in the the older hardware ... to a point.

Stable PCI slots are good but the future is external through 1394 USB2 and perhaps Ethernet.

cutting edge stuff BUT this world moves to fast to not expect change to come fast.

AS fars as I am concerned ...
a bottom line system need to record and playback to a two 24 track standard and in a modern sense be scallable
and
be capable of import and export to windoze and Mac based machines.

I have more to say
but
... net time is low .... 10 ... 9 ... 8 ... 7 ... oops got to go ... 4 ... 3 .....
:shock:

Gosh, it's so weird how I run into groups like this when googling for totally unrelated topics...

If your interesting in Linux recording (in the context of multitracking with DAWs) here's the DL:

Transport: Jack - cross between a software patch bay and a transport controller. Allows you to send audio back and forth between programs while slaving them all to one transport.

DAW : Ardour - Has all the bells and whistles of a fully featured DAW but doesn't cost a cent. (please feel free to donate though) Works very nice with MIDI based controll surfaces.

Mastering: Jamin - most everything needed to put the final polish on a mix.

Plugins: LADSPA - plugin architecture for linux. there are many many free high qulaity LADSAP plugins available. It's very much like VST. There is also something called DSSI which is very much like VSTi.

Editing: Rezound - There are others, but this one IMHO is by far the best.

The Rest: there are many many other applications used for specific purposes. Things like Midi sequencers, softsynths, samplers, FX units, loopers, convolvers, drum sequencers, and other similar apps indirectly related to DAW multitrack recording

Linux & Hardware: Most and PCI based card is supported. Many USB units supported as well. VERY FEW FIREWIRE UNITS ARE SUPPORTED THOUGH! This is mostly because the company's making the firewired units don't follow any type of common API or protocol and refuse to release documentation so that the ALSA project can create drivers for them. Most people wanting to do audio on Linux would be advised to use maudio cards or RME cards. (I can personall recommend the PCI based RME cards. Very nice hardware.)

As far as the operating system is concerned, it is very stable, very secure, and can take a heavy beating. Your mileage may vary according to the distro you use. (I personally use Gentoo and love it)

If you want to know more here are some good places to start looking:
http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user/
http://sound.condorow.net/

yep
been there and been watching for some time

I kind'a thought this thread might get spotted But am suprised to see an arrival so soon.

welcome to FishB8
:)

thanks for the advice

Most people wanting to do audio on Linux would be advised to use maudio cards or RME cards. (I can personall recommend the PCI based RME cards. Very nice hardware.)

As far as the operating system is concerned, it is very stable, very secure, and can take a heavy beating. Your mileage may vary according to the distro you use. (I personally use Gentoo and love it)

The trouble with Linux and these open softwares is that the user does want to be a geek.
It is the same situation as Digital audio back in the late 80's and Word Processing in the late 70's

Lots of good stuff BUT not one complete and simple idea or install.

Red Hat made Linux quite popular and well know for that reason ... A one CD solution.

Now we need a current ONE CD operating system and a ONE CD audio application install.

If it's too hard they wont bother. Just not enough time in this world to waist on computers and NOT recording music.

It shouldn't feel like a computer.

Once in the application and the record light is RED
... it should even be noticed what it is ... or what it runs on.
Same goes for Speakers and Headphone and Mic ... etc ....

When the Musician is doing there thing ... I don't want to get in the way for any reason.

The trouble with Linux and these open softwares is that the user does want to be a geek.

If it's too hard they wont bother. Just not enough time in this world to waist on computers and NOT recording music.

It shouldn't feel like a computer.

I don't see the "geek" factor to be a downfall of any sort. If people don't want to be computer savy they don't have to be. (Even if they're using Linux) But I do think it becomes a limiting factor when stepping into the digital domain.

For instance, if an audio engineer has a good grasp on concepts such as load, impedance, resistance, and the like, they will always have an edge on those who don't understand these things. Understanding how a tool works will always result in better utilization of that tool. The same extends to software.

But I'm not implying that anybody wishing to use linux must conform to the geek side of things. Really linux is not all that hard. For instance if I want to install Ardour, I type:

emerge ardour

and I'm done. Ardour is installed and setup and I can get to work.

Hello Folks.........

Hello folks,
Hope I am not posting off track here, but here is what I have as a System..

P3 700, 640mb memory, 10 & 13gig HDD, SB PCI512 card. I have ran Agnula, Demudi, DynaBolic?, Turn Key, Planet CCRMA, Mandrake with all the patches, SlackWare with all the patches. And they all worked pretty good on this old system.

I have ordered the Fervent Software's Studio to Go! and am waiting to try it out. My main concern is Soundfonts and having an easy way to load and unload them. Studio to Go! looks like they have done that.

Rosegarden is a nice midi and audio app. That has score printing. Lilly Pond is a score engraver. Audacity is a nice audio editing app. something like Sound Forge. The Jack Audio Connection Kit is does somewhat what Rewire does, and connects everything to everything else anyway you want, as long as it supports Jack.

Please remember I have had somewhat limited access to everything but Audacity and Rosegarden, and even then only off and on with Rosegarden the last year or so. But I have used Linux for recording in that time and have been impressed in how far it has come in the last 2 years! I just thought I would toss my 2 cents in and hope it might help a little in steering some people to other programs in the Linux audio world.

Here are a couple links to some nice sites I have found....

The Linux Audio Blog
http://linuxaudioblog.jawebada.de/

A Hammer Head type drum machine (the only drum machine for Linux?)
Link removed

A nice Listing of Linux Audio Apps, Dave Phillips great site...
http://linux-sound.org/

Using KDE and Gnome, tho I like KDE, the GUI is as easy as Windows to use. I am a Xandros user and the big problem in any Linux OS, at least for me, is the way the file system is laid out. Xandros has an explore - like file manager that makes it easier to use than most, at least for me.

I am looking forward to reading this thread, and gathering info from all the pro's that are gearing up to record some music on here!

nice to see you!

Good to see you here smurf! Now I know where to find you when you're not around the KAE forum! Later!

welcome Smurf

FishB8
I get where you are coming from but my comment was more about the depth of knowledge with the current crop of software and the version/problems and conflicts that do come and go.

It's hard enough just keeping up with the main Applications so popular today and the various conflicts with OS.

As I've said before I've been in this from the start and although been watching Unix Linux and BeOS and Next and others ... SUN and SGI/Unix ... I just have never had the time or the spare machines to put my head down and try testing some of these OS/application combinations.

I think we all probably now have spare computers and current Intel/AMD bulds are cheap and the older 604 and G3 and G4 from Apple are now fair game for some first level experimenting.

When I say Geek I mean that with much respect.

You won't find a geekier group of people than at The LAB and the The Drawing Board at http://www.groupdiy.com ..
I would like to point out that Group DIY was born right here at RO.

We DIY recording equipment and we get watched by the manufacturers just as much as the Linux guys get watched by the major software players.

open forum and open platform ... 8-)

I get where you are coming from but my comment was more about the depth of knowledge with the current crop of software and the version/problems and conflicts that do come and go.

ah, well, I don't think that's avoidable, reguardless of the OS. It's just a part of the business that one must deal with.

You won't find a geekier group of people than at The LAB and the The Drawing Board at http://www.groupdiy.com ..

I've found group at TapeOp to be quite heavy on the geek-o-meter as well... http://messageboard.tapeop.com/ :)

Yep
it probably is

Tape Op people frequent the LAB as they also frequented Tech Talk here before it closed.

Just introducing myself, will get into Tech next time.

Hi all, I stumbled across this thread and I have to say it is what I have been looking for.
I'm new to Linux and audio but I have been assigned a job of digitizing over 200 hours of Jazz recordings dating back to the early 70s. For the last two months I have been researching the DAWs to the job. I have been a Windows man for years but I have always been interested with Linux and have followed it from a distance and I have to say if half of what they say is true about the audio capabilities I'm sold although I have had some very heated debates with Mac users I believe Linux to be the OS of the future.

I would be very interested in getting involved with any group activities you have going, I've read that some of you are joining forces and I would be into putting forward my two cents, as I said I've been researching it for a bit and allot of what has been said above is what I've found to be true.

As I said I have been commissioned to digitize this archive and I have been given a grant to support it, I build computers as a hobby so I'll be building one especially for this project. I'm basing it on a dual opteron (bit over powered but might as well be future proof) and a RME sound card. RME seem to have the best support and least bugs with Linux.

The one thing I have heard that is one of the greatest strengths of the Linux audio software is that the developers encourage feedback from the users. So we as a group could set up communications with them it could prove very beneficial.

Well I have bored you enough with this life story, I'll try to keep my reply shorter in future and I look forward to working with you.

more suggestions

Hey guys I just saw this thread and I thought I'd give some other suggestions. I've been a Linux user for quite sometime now and only use Windows to run Nuendo, Reason, and of course stuff at work. I've tried many distros such as SuSE, RedHat, Gentoo, Arch, Buffalo, DSL, Toas, and Ubuntu, etc.

For users who want to try a distribution that is easy to install, gives you the ability to try it out before actually installing it on the HD, is loaded with features, security, and stability of Debian, give SimplyMepis Linux a try. (I'm running it rght now from the CD-rom while typing this up!)

http://www.mepis.org/

Ever since I tried it I've stuck with it. One thing I liked about it was how it automatically saw all my workstations on my network from the install. (Even from the CD-ROM with no need to install and configure drivers and network settings! My network is half wired and half wireless.)

Pair that up with an RME sound card and apt ardour. (apt works similar to emerge from Gentoo).

And not sure if you guys heard of Receptor.

http://www.museresearch.com/index.php

which is a portable, hardware VST plug-in player designed for performing musicians in a 19" rack.

Also there is Cross Over Office by code weavers which gives you the ability to run certain win32 apps on Linux.

http://www.codeweavers.com/

They have a few apps listed on their site such as Reason, Cubase, Sonar, Wavelab, etc, that haven't been tested yet but if they end up getting fully supported, what out MS.

Receptor does look interesting ... although I don't completely understand it
... am very interested as to what is inside
and how it works.

The computer is a cheap solution BUT I fear that the complexity of software is it's main downfall.

Now that processors are cheap and inter-connectabitity is relative easy IF the manufacturers chose to stay within standard protocols and file types

I think there is room for Hardware Players for soft synths and general plugs

I also think it will not be long before we see an affordable control surface with a recorder built in.

NO not just a VS880 ++++ plus
BUT a name recorder like Nuendo or PT inside a Name unit ....
say Yamaha or Euphonics ... or even Behringer.

8)
UNIWIRE™ http://www.museresearch.com/press_release_musikmesse_2005_uniwire.php

we have been promised products like this for some time
I still wait in hope

mmmm
:D
mixing a live band from a wireless PDA in the middle of the room
....
controlling the IEM system while at the bar getting a drink.

8)

Do you mean something like this?

http://openlabs.com/products/product_info-neko64.htm

You can run Nuendo right in the keyboard workstation. The price of any configuration is high and it probably weighs a ton but it's a true all in one solution unlike other workstations which usually revolve around one thing such as music creation or recording.

The company also makes touch surfaces that give you the ability to move faders and other controls on the screen much like the Mackie DXB 200.

But back on the museresearch and Ardour thing..

I haven't had the chance to really try out the receptor yet but it does look interesting. You can use it with your mac or pc or stand alone.

My only thing with Ardour is the gui and hardware support in linux from pro audio vendors.

yeah

It can depend on the application

That unit is great for a single live use or personal unit
or
if you don't have many other things or have it all in one room.
In large and multi room set-ups I do prefer to see rack Units with Remote Control Panels.

I guess I am thinking beyong the softsynths here and towards audio effects and control

I would like to see more of this product and more of the
from web site

Have it Your Way: With Open Labs'™ Build-Your-Own-
Keyboard (BYOK) ordering system, you can have the exact neKo™ 64 that you want, when you want it, complete with the ability to upgrade at any time.

So who knows what the future may bring.

... the Computer driven native stuff does tend to have too much latency for TRUE live work.

I find the same problems when Over Dubbing. That's why I never use plug-ins on native systems while in tracking mode

I thinks it's a Post Edit Mixdown thing.
Even on TDM there are many plugs I wouldn't use while tracking.