Ya, I know its a CPU hog. I struggled with BFD2 for a long time and then discovered never to allocate CPU cores on the DAW. And I forget the setting in BFD2 but there is something there in the CP of BFD2 that your make sure is selected. I'm in session right now so I cannot look but will later and report back. It made everything rock solid.

But, you are also using a lot of plug-ins where I don't so it may never help you in the end anyway, but its worth a shot. BFD2 is great.

I'll keep it installed, then. In Cubase all I have to do is just select an instrument, since it is a MIDI track anway. So switching back to BFD is a trivial matter. Let me know when you can and I'll try it. I've already tried putting the mixer in it's own thread, and using 16bit sound. Didn't help. Even with 8 Gig RAM I get a low memory warning.

I'm betting this is a major issue most people suffer from this and other big programs like BFD. Do you have a performance setting for your DAW? An option that enables how many processors you use? I can select up to 8. I used to put it on 4. I've deactivated that.

I deactivated the multi-proc setting in Cubase. Actually helped a bit. Don't know why. Also gave audio and MIDI equal priority. Helped a bit, too.

Thing is, I'm still freezing every track except the drums. Still getting skips.

I was hoping to actually increase latency. The FP10 has a max of 40ms. If I could give it, say, 1500ms then the CPU would have 1.5 seconds to think before having to output the answer. Perfectly fine for mixing and editing.

That's a good sign.

Load BFD2 and go Preferences. ( the icon with the Check mark) There are settings in there to tweak. I see one for looping in cubase and others for groove etc.
I don't use BFD for looping or beats I only use BFD for the samples and the mixer so this may or may not help you. I also use external sequencers and/or the DAW sequencer. I also usually record the new track to replace it in audio once its ready and then close off VSTi's. I also basically only use BFD2 for replacing existing drums that suck. So it really is my go to traditional drum replacement library.

In preferences left hand side is the "Engine" . Click on "Mixer in own thread".

Let me know if this improved?

Also, rescan your data path for new files can help. Sometimes rescanning all databases can help. That is located in the Data section.

Did all that...got me to where I am now. Will try the rescan idea though. Hadn't thought of that. I have my BFD audio on a sep drive.

Hey audiokid, how do the zillion-dollar studios do this stuff? They can't have pro clients listening to a bunch of skips and crackles or a bunch of latency.

They must be linking computers together. I can build computers easily; but I'd like to know how to link them together for better studio performance.

Good question.

I can only comment from my experience. And, this could could go on as long as one of Remy's lol so I'll cut it short hehe.

I use sequencers for a reason. DAW's suck compared but I've leaned to make them work too. I can run 24 channels at a 32 buffer on one computer with my rig. How do I do it?
I use the best interface, the best DAW and mix as much as I can OTB. I am all about delegating the task best suited for the DAW, analog and when to do it at the right time. Its all about doing things proficient in the right order. Removing overlaps, getting rid of processes etc. Big big topic.

I've done this for so long now, you learn the secrets to optimizing voice count. Thats what its all about.

To put us into categories, there are recording engineers, mixing engineers and remix engineers and mastering engineers. I think a lot of recording engineers don't know how much happens long after it leaves their studio. And the ones that never get that far, they don't care anyway so its all a big wall of rejection if we talk about this stuff.

I bough a server for running libraries but it didn't work. So I now have a MPC Renaissance and a Kronos which is the same thing. the Keyboard is just like having a second computer made for triggering samples and morphing.

Welcome to the world of hybrid musicians. Thats really what we are.

I was just looking at the Cubase manual. It has all the software solutions a studio needs for linking computers. They propose several scenarios in there:

1. A dedicated mix computer with;
2. A dedicated MIDI computer handling the MIDI instruments,
3. A dedicated drum/percussion computer,
4. A dedicated computer used as an effects rack, including analog FX loops.
5. Archival/storage computer.

Cool! After my next core upgrade, my current rig will still be used as a second or something!

Cubase can make use of SPDIF for the linking, and this motherboard has SPDIF.

Things just got even more interesting.

All of the above aside, and back to the original subject of the post, it may be that your voice simply doesn't fit contextually within the particular track you've chosen.

You could use all the EQ, compression, and FX in the world... but you have chosen a track, because of its fame, notoriety and ingenuity, where it's almost "sacrilegious" to attempt.

There are many great singers, wonderful singers, who can sing certain songs and do them great, but there are "those" certain songs that they simply can't sing. It's no reflection of their individual talent...Paul McCartney is a great vocalist, Lou Graham is a great vocalist, so is Steve Perry, these guys are pitch perfect and have made their marks numerous times in the rock world...but for as good as they are, I can't hear any of those cats singing Stairway. By the same token, I can't really hear Robert Plant singing Yesterday, either.

That track may be one of "those" songs where the song was made by the singer, where it was owned by the guy who sang on it. Perhaps that's why we haven't heard a remake of that classic since its release in 1971... because it simply can't be done - at least not to any amount of justice or acceptance - when performed by anyone else other than Plant.

And this shouldn't be taken as a negative comment to your singing. It's just a matter of the right song for the right singer.

just sayin...

I have to agree with Donny. Some classic songs should never be redone. This is one of them. Everything is just to perfect in its own unique way.

what i heard: put a high pass filter on the vocal. those lousy limy bastards ;) back then did a high pass on everything below 100 hz, even the bass. Bill Wyman said once that he had to raise hissy fits when they were recording to keep the engineers from rolling off at 100. more reverb and echo ... that's all it needs.

and for all the tech stuff about freezing and allocating recources blah blah ... i thought DAWs were supposed to be easier? i would rather have to clean align and bias two half tracks and a 24 track before every song than to have to mess with all of that stuff. at least i know how to do it instead of standing around with my pud in my hand wondering, "what to do now?"

I like the idea of doing a song that is off limits in so many minds of the recording world. My next challenge for someone would be to recreate Bohemian Rhapsody or just jump right ahead to Yes Close to the Edge! I do agree that there are these songs that have come to be "owned", as Donny said, by the original artist. However, trying to learn how much work was put into something is never quite experienced just by listening. Sure you can sit and listen to these songs all day long, and you could learn how to play them too. Nothing is more revealing though until you either record or play them with a band. I don't say let everyone or anyone listen in the commercial meaning of it all. Just do it as an exercise in futility of such an endeavor, do it for you. I would want to hear it too!

Nothing is easy... It just gets less mechanical. I still completely feel that reel to reel is the best sounding way to record. If I had one I would still use it and it would be worth what they call a "hassle." Hey all this digital stuff is just a hassle in many ways too. Some days it all somehow works and on those days we are happiest.

DrGonz, post: 401188 wrote: ... However, trying to learn how much work was put into something is never quite experienced just by listening. Sure you can sit and listen to these songs all day long, and you could learn how to play them too. Nothing is more revealing though until you either record or play them with a band. I don't say let everyone or anyone listen in the commercial meaning of it all. Just do it as an exercise in futility of such an endeavor, do it for you. I would want to hear it too!

Ya know what Doc? You're right. While I still believe there are those songs that shouldn't be covered - I guess I was saying it more from a commercial p.o.v.in that I'd personally find it ridiculous for someone to record Stairway and then release it.

But from a technical stance, you're absolutely correct. It's a fantastic learning tool to try to recreate that which we love, not only in terms of the recording itself, but also in terms of production and musicianship.

Songs like Stairway, or Bohemian Rhapsody or A Day In The Life, or Strawberry Fields have much to teach us.

Several years ago, I was involved in recording backing tracks for my solo act, where I record the accompanying tracks to songs, leaving out the parts that I play live - guitar, vox, keys - and what I found was that even the "easiest" songs weren't as easy as I thought at all, in trying to stay authentic in the sound of the tracks. You'd think that a song like My Girl would be a breeze, right? Three chords, simple bass line.. man, that song was a right bitch to get sounding like it should. Then I attempted to tackle Peter Gabriel's Red Rain...LOL... and it sure taught this old veteran a thing or two he thought he knew but in truth didn't... that song was like an onion, layer after layer of textures, tracks, with all kinds of stuff going on both musically and technically in the recording. Damn thing nearly killed me. ;)

But.. the end result to covering those songs as authentically as possible was that it taught me a lot... as a musician, as an arranger, as an engineer. It turned out to be priceless educational tool.

And a track like Stairway would be a prime teaching tool in terms of all of those things, because in all of those things it shined. Okay, so yeah, as musicians we're all pretty sick to death of it now, my old joke about songs like that are that I loved them the first ten thousand times I heard them... but in reality, it's one of those songs where no matter how many times you hear it, you can always pick up something new in the performance or the recording every time you hear it. For example... I wasn't aware, until just a few years ago, that the "flute sound" wasn't a Mellotron as I had originally thought, but were actually recorders...played by John Paul.

So I say go for it... because as a teaching tool, it's a wonderful example.

fwiw
-d.

Well I have two comments on this.

I have literally programmed, mixed and performed a few thousand cover songs from classic to current pop. Its how I made money and learned what I know. There comes a time where you put your time into things that count and quit messing around. If you are doing things to learn, fly at it but learning is a lot to do with discovering who you are and using that to your advantage. Everything should help us discover tricks and techniques but keep your eye on the eight ball. This industry isn't about greatness as much as it is about timing and doing something that fits you. Because , its you that people want and will reward you, and hopefully long after your artistic greatness has reached it time.

It takes about 10,000 hours at something to find yourself and become a master at it. Finding yourself and keeping ego out in this business is the key ingredient. When you reach that threshold, don't waste your time on the things that don't highlight exactly who you are. Life as an artist isn't as long as it seems. Don't waste your time on things that will be heavily scrutinized and measured against peer greatness.

I put great value in discovering what fits for me. Always have. Even though I love Stairway to Heaven and other songs that inspired me to get into this business, I never played that song once in my life to an audience. And I am a master guitarist that can play very close to this including other great guitarists like SRV, Santana, Clapton, Knopfler . Its never been about my greatness though. Its been about what fits my audience and gets me closer to my goal. What is your goal?
Everything I did in front of a crowd was advertising who I am. So, after the first ego maniac in a band, I figured that one out and went on my own. Once I figured out where I belong, doors opened and opportunities started flowing. I listened to agents criticism, trusted some peers and read my crowd that kept building. I let certain people in the business feel welcome to share their opinions about me and trusted my gut. I already knew I was excellent as a musician so that wasn't my focus anymore. I think you are excellent as a musician John. You are amazing. Discovering who we are is the hard part.

So, in my eyes, there has been nothing greater than making a living with my passion. So this has made me realistic.

IMO, Classic Rock is and was always about sex drugs and alcohol, real freedom and the American Dream.. Live drums and an unplanned happening is what I hear when I listen to that song. It happened like that. I'm sure they were overdubs but thats not what I'm talking about here. If I was going to redo this song, it would be in a completely different direction. But I don't think I could actually pull it off because I grew up in the generation. Someone from this generation would have to do it.

I know you can do it but why? You will likely never be rewarded for all the time you put into it. Maybe I'm wrong, just saying this because I've heard your originals and they are great!

My only regret, I should have stopped performing as much and focused on writing long before I did. I should have also waited a lot longer before I got totally messed up on women.

that's my theory.

I wouldn't typically suggest a plug-in first... but the Eddie Kramer set from waves really is quite good at achieving what you are looking for. Why re-invent the wheel, when he packed up the wheel schematics and is selling them for $100/pop. I'm sure you'll find other uses for the EK package too beyond the vocal channel plugin, it's a great set of tools.

DrGonz, post: 401188 wrote: I like the idea of doing a song that is off limits in so many minds of the recording world. My next challenge for someone would be to recreate Bohemian Rhapsody or just jump right ahead to Yes Close to the Edge! I do agree that there are these songs that have come to be "owned", as Donny said, by the original artist. However, trying to learn how much work was put into something is never quite experienced just by listening. Sure you can sit and listen to these songs all day long, and you could learn how to play them too. Nothing is more revealing though until you either record or play them with a band. I don't say let everyone or anyone listen in the commercial meaning of it all. Just do it as an exercise in futility of such an endeavor, do it for you. I would want to hear it too!

Nothing is easy... It just gets less mechanical. I still completely feel that reel to reel is the best sounding way to record. If I had one I would still use it and it would be worth what they call a "hassle." Hey all this digital stuff is just a hassle in many ways too. Some days it all somehow works and on those days we are happiest.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.youtube…"]Split Screen Bohemian Rhapsody - Richie Castellano - YouTube[/]="http://www.youtube…"]Split Screen Bohemian Rhapsody - Richie Castellano - YouTube[/]

I'm sure some one has seen this.

SteveMilner, post: 401209 wrote: I wouldn't typically suggest a plug-in first... but the Eddie Kramer set from waves really is quite good at achieving what you are looking for. Why re-invent the wheel, when he packed up the wheel schematics and is selling them for $100/pop. I'm sure you'll find other uses for the EK package too beyond the vocal channel plugin, it's a great set of tools.

This. I have them. It is instant Classic rock.

I agree with Chris 123%. It would be higher but I'm getting over a cold.

If you're going to do something that has such an established voice that people can whistle the lead guitar part, you had better be really accurate or really inventive at suggesting the song and bringing it to you as who YOU ARE.

We all are seeing the tribute band business cropping up in the live venues now and there are folks who are doing great jobs at being someone or something that they may have aspired to but never really reached the level of. There's actually good money in this business but its been going on long enough now that only the very best are getting the return on their efforts while the rest remain in the novelty categories at best.

I play in a classic rock band. We're actually pretty good at what we do though there are things we cannot or will not play simply because we cant pull them off. Like Chris said, rock is all about the attitude and the fuel that generates that attitude.. So when I'm doing my thing on a stage and giving it my best Paul Rodgers, I'm looking more at how I bring the 'effect' of the song as a live entity rather than as an exacting copy. I know lots of players who can cop the licks, pull off the sounds, play the arrangements, but I know a lot fewer than can bring the mojo and the attitude.

I've been playing this stuff for over 40 years. Since before it was 'classic'. I was in a band that lived the first two Zep records when they were new records. And the same thing was true then as now......bring it.

So, doing this cut as a learning curve is one thing. Doing this cut as a release is quite another. Trust me when I say that Zep NEVER played the same thing twice nor did they want to. Page talks about this in the Rolling Stone interview of a couple of months ago....right around the Kennedy Center thing.. Its the main reason they never reunited. People would want to hear the old renditions that they're so familiar with and Zep knew they couldn't honestly deliver it because of their own development as musicians. They next time they played it would be the first time because they were new to it also in so many important ways. Listen to the 2007 reunion thing @ the 02. Similar but different.

There are many artists that want that live duplication when they go out and its simply a matter of responding to the ticket buyers who are their support group....the fans. Some artists want to improve the songs that got them first billing at the big rooms...the A listers..A great example would be the difference in the music between the original releases of any Little Feat record and the incredible arrangements and expanding mind of Waiting For Columbus. As a huge fan of that particular group from the beginnings it floored me that they could be so much better in person every time I saw them and a lot of it was due to the growth and their willingness to move outside of what was well-known into what is new and exciting.

Its too damn bad that the music today will never allow that.

DonnyThompson, post: 401189 wrote: A Day In The Life, or Strawberry Fields have much to teach us.

Already done those. Great fun! Even used "dragging tape" on Fields by bouncing to another DAW project and using the software to slow it down/drop the pitch. Sounded authentic.

I don't have actual Recorders for this, so I'm using a VST rip of an old Mellotron. Supposedly this is the same Mellotron used for Fields. IDK about that, but it sounds fantastic in a late 60s, lo-fi kind of way.

In the latest (unreleased) iteration, I added a simulated transformer effect to get a little saturation. Dirtied it up a bit more. Also worked on "breath marks", since real wind instruments can't play forever.

I'll try that Eddie Kramer plug in. I think I've got it already.

Davedog, post: 401224 wrote: [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.youtube…"]Split Screen Bohemian Rhapsody - Richie Castellano - YouTube[/]="http://www.youtube…"]Split Screen Bohemian Rhapsody - Richie Castellano - YouTube[/]

I'm sure some one has seen this.

Thats awesome and what I appreciate the most is this guy can sing great and I love the harmonizers. But its the same and not quite Freddie so where will it get him? This is my point. This guy should create a new song that sounds like this.

audiokid, post: 401228 wrote: Thats awesome and what I appreciate the most is this guy can sing great and I love the harmonizers. But its the same and not quite Freddie so where will it get him? This is my point. This guy should create a new song that sounds like this.

He's doing this for fun. He's already a well established professional. He's the current guitarist in Blue Oyster Cult and he can really really play. He also has a video up of the last four songs on Abbey Road much like Will Lee and those guys did a couple of years ago....only Richie, again, does it all. He's just having fun on YouTube!

JohnTodd, post: 401227 wrote: I'll try that Eddie Kramer plug in. I think I've got it already.

Its a whole package. One part that has individual instruments and other parts like the PIE comp, the PIE EQ and the Kramer Master Tape. All are very very good. The only other plugs that would help as much would be the Helios EQs.

Well there ya go. Shows you how up I am on BOC . Its definitely very well done but I'll never listen to it again. Its great education for the new generation though, showing them we don't need anyone once again. The Drums are a bit weak but a great production. Basically what I've been saying all along around here, it can all be done in a mix room.
Doesn't it seem odd he would spend time on that song though?

Chris if you google him and do a little research you'll see hes been a child prodigy and now this is all he does. Hes got his live and pro gig nailed down and hes dinking around in his little home studio. Look closely at the level of gear. Its not much. And who knows how much time he spent? Maybe it was only a day or two.....some folks are that good!

Oh I know, its not hard once you know what to do. The video probably took as much time, but you also have to break it all down and put it together. I'm seriously wondering though, whats in it for him. I know how to do things like this. Its what I do, I'm just not as talented a singer but that took more time than a few days. He spent time to learn that at one time and also took the time to get it all accurate and mixed.

Never the less, what I saying to John here is, he is so good with his originals, I would be pushing that direction full steam ahead. I'm sure he is going to do a great job with Stairway To heaven but why. Its a great cover but because we all know about the one man band now, it doesn't impress us the same way. And when its so close, its never close enough.

Keep on your original path. This song is just too classic. Its in the top 5 of all time.

I agree.

Davedog, post: 401241 wrote: I agree.

What, that I'm just not as talented a singer hehe... Kidding! :tongue:

audiokid, post: 401208 wrote: Well I have two comments on this.
What is your goal?
Everything I did in front of a crowd was advertising who I am. So, after the first ego maniac in a band, I figured that one out and went on my own. Once I figured out where I belong, doors opened and opportunities started flowing. I listened to agents criticism, trusted some peers and read my crowd that kept building. I let certain people in the business feel welcome to share their opinions about me and trusted my gut. I already knew I was excellent as a musician so that wasn't my focus anymore. I think you are excellent as a musician John. You are amazing. Discovering who we are is the hard part.

So, in my eyes, there has been nothing greater than making a living with my passion. So this has made me realistic.

I know you can do it but why? You will likely never be rewarded for all the time you put into it. Maybe I'm wrong, just saying this because I've heard your originals and they are great!

My only regret, I should have stopped performing as much and focused on writing long before I did. I should have also waited a lot longer before I got totally messed up on women.

that's my theory.

LOL... Gimme a break. You became a rock n roller for the exact same reason I did... for the girls. Yeah, maybe the spark that lit the fuse for us is different, for me it was seeing The Fabs on the Ed Sullivan Show on that long ago cold February night, with the camera's cutting to all the screaming chicks in the audience... I sat mesmerized in front of my Grandparent's TV, and when they had finished the first song I looked up at my Grandfather and said "That's what I wanna do when I grow up. I wanna do that...." much to his chagrin, LOL.. I can still see his face perfectly in my mind to this very day, and the exaggerated eye roll I got as a response. LOL

I agree with my esteemed colleague in regard to finding your own path and making your own mark artistically, John.

Chris is dead -on when he suggests that you concentrate on your originals, making your own mark, finding (or creating ) your own foothold.

But, Chris and I are going to have to agree to disagree with the "reward" you will get from covering a piece like Stairway. Yes, I know that I originally said that perhaps this wasn't the song for you to do because of the mark it left on popular music, that perhaps you weren't the right singer for the song, and because it was a song of such artistic endeavor that covering it for the sake of commercial release was probably a bad idea... but as far as a learning tool, I find it a perfect example of the type of song that should be "reverse engineered" and dissected, because it offers so much in terms of performance, arrangement, production, recording, etc.

And I don't believe that this learning process should ever be stopped. We must never stop learning.

While Stairway, along with others of the same cloth - like Bohemian Rhapsody, Strawberry Fields Forever, or other songs from classic pieces like Dark Side Of The Moon, Sgt Pepper, Machinehead, Aja', , and the other multitude of songs and albums that were considered pinnacles of the genre, should be, in my opinion, "must learns" for those entering this craft of ours, I don't feel that it should be limited to just those that are new students.

I've been at this for about 34 years now, and I still learn new things all the time - and a great resource for that knowledge is right here on this forum.
I learn new things everyday....and I want to. I never want to get to a place where I am satisfied with the knowledge I have. While I feel I have a lot to teach, I still have a lot to learn as well.

So, when we take apart songs like this - regardless of their age - when we dissect them for the sake of learning, we find that there is indeed much to learn, these songs have much to teach us, and while there may not be the financial reward as Chris suggests, they are priceless in terms of expanding our knowledge - so I suppose the "reward" part is subjective. No, it won't pay your mortgage, but it could help to make you better at what you do, which will pay off monetarily in the long run.

fwiw
-d.

well said Donny and a good story on how you got inspired!
Led Zeppelin is more a sacred ground thing.

I may have a different opinion on this for someone less creatively talented but in John's creative interest I say this.
Problem I see here, and I've seen this happen time after time, as soon as you start playing live too much (when you should be focused on originals), and especially in your local area around friends ( hmm), gigging and doing that bar circuit has pros and cons. The covers start taking over your life. Your mindset changes and you start playing to the crowd requests. Jukebox hero. Keep your eye on the eight ball.
This song is a classic example of this happening and too me are the warning signs. Before you know it, you are a puppet of the system and derailed. Just saying.

I may have a different opinion on this for someone less creatively talented but in John's creative interest I say this.
Problem I see here, and I've seen this happen time after time, as soon as you start playing live too much (when you should be focused on originals), and especially in your local area around friends ( hmm), gigging and doing that bar circuit has pros and cons. The covers start taking over your life. Your mindset changes and you start playing to the crowd requests. Jukebox hero. Keep your eye on the eight ball.
This song is a classic example of this happening and too me are the warning signs. Before you know it, you are a puppet of the system and derailed. Just saying.

or, didn't you see the sign?

Attached files

LMAO!

hehe, !!!!!

Thats great. Where do you find these, Kurt!

uhhh ....ermmmmm.. google.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=No+Stairway+To+heaven&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I worked in a music store for a year and I can relate lol! Every guitar player doing this, drove us crazy.

And Smoke on the Water

Holy shit that's so funny in this context!

thumb

i didn't intend to be mean ... it really was just a joke .... sorry john. lol

No, seriously, I was laughing. I'm not offended at all. I had forgotten that part of WW and it made me LOL over here.

's all good!

yeah you did sort of lean into that one ... again, it was meant as good natured, not as mean. mean people suck.

No worries.

Lets continue the philosophical discussion.

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