Hello and welcome!

I just resently got the 2-610, so I will comment on just this piece for now.

Friend, you would be doing your self a rewarding pleasure if you decide to pick up this most incredible mic pre.

I am sure I do not need to tell you the features that it has, but man those EQs really do the buisness on your material, especialy vocals!

Also I think that the XLR line ins are the Bees Knees of all the features!!!

You can colorize any program material through here, tape machine, sub mixers you name it!

I think you would be hard pressed to find a better run for your $ :D

Not to mention it is the sexiest honey out there!

Id strongly recomend her : "The Universal Queen."

Cheers!

Mad John
Zythum Studios

"The present day Composer refuses to die!"
Edgar Varese - 1921

Sorry to disagree, but I'm not at all impressed with the UA mic pre.

If I were to buy more pres today, I would likely get either a Neve 1073, a Martech MSS10, a GML 8304 or a good vintage API, depending on the color I was after. The GT Vipre has a good street buzz too, so I would probably try that unit as well before deciding. Just my $0.02.

Jon

Is this a workhorse preamp? You have to be careful when you have a single " go to" preamp because it will impart its character on everything. There are an elite few preamps that sound great everything and fabulous on some things.

Two that come to mind are API's and Great Rivers.

I agree that the UA ain't hittin on much either. The best bargain in mic preamps is the Great River mp-2mh. Got my two channels for about $1300 new. Transparent and 3-d sounding. Sounds good on everything. Great on most things.

I love my 2-610 :D

Now come on guys....if you dont like the 2-610, at least give us some reasons.

I would love to know what you have to say about the 2-610 that is negative.

Mad John
Zythum Studios

The present day Composer refuses to die!"
Edgar Varese - 1921

Ckevperry

Were did you get your MP-2MH?

Dan-O

FWIW, there is a review in this month's MIX mag by Michael Cooper on the UA 2-610 which is a total rave. Among other things he says:

"... hands down, the most dimensional mic preamp I've ever heard for recording vocals. The depth, clarity, lushness, and tight bottom end it imparts on vocal tracks will astound you."

However, one should note that I think (I could be wrong here) that this the same Michael Cooper about whom Fletcher once did a 2000 word rant, essentially labelling him one of the world's least informed and most error-prone reviewers? (The article in question was a compressor round-up). He may have questioned his genetic lineage as well.

Also note that Fletcher has already stated here that he was never impressed with the origianl UA preamp that the 2-610 is modelled after.

Clearly there is some controversy about the value of this preamp - some love it and some hate it. (I haven't had the opportunity to use it). The switchable impedence is a nice feature, shared by only a few other preamps (all implemented somewhat differently - VIPRE, Avalon 2022, one of the Meeks). None of my preamps have that feature, and sometimes I really wish I had one that did - especially for my Royer 121, which I have to crank pretty high on softer sources on any of my current pres. At less than $1000 per channel street price, the UA is not as expensive as the VIPRE or the Avalon 2022, but it is still a little more expensive per channel than the API 3124 (I've seen as low as about $650 per) or the Vintech 1272 (about $600 per). Apparently the Great River is in that same range. If I was going to start out with one mic pre purchase, I might lean towards the "safer" choice of the API 3124 - because you get four channels of high quality preamps (kick, snare, bass, vox?) that are gonna sound pretty damn good on just about everything AND 4 DI's (and some nice metering, although no EQ)- all in one rack space! Then as you start to add to your collection you can move in the direction of "more transparent" (Grace, Earthworks, DACS) or more colorful (Neve, Vipre, UA) as dictated by your needs.

I guess my problem with the UA is that despite the source, there is always many other preamps that can do the job better to my ears.

Dan-O:

Go to http://www.greatriverelectronics.com and look thru their dealer list. I can't remember who it was exactly so you'll have to call around for the best price.

How can you really trust a mag. review? Does ANYONE here pay for subscriptions? $1300 to $3000 is too major a purchase, for me, to trust some guy. When I finally got enough money to get a good preamp, I went to as many big studios web sites as I could find to the what they have. So I got a 1073. I have since added a 737. I am very pleased with these. Up next will be Great River or API.

For the real deal 1073 or 1089 or 1064, I recommend Brent Averill. He and Avedis are good folks to deal with...they saved my butt a couple of times with telephone help and fedexed spare parts.

If I had the $$, I'd buy a dozen 1073s. They are the busiest boxes in my studio...pretty much always in use...that is, the few days they aren't out earning their keep with rental jobs at other studios. Definitely the best rental item by far that we have.

http://www.brentaverill.com.

Jon

Has anybody had any experiance with the API units by Brent Averill? http://www.brentaverill.com./#apipres

Dan-O

So thats it!?

No one is saying why the 2-1610 is truly undisirable, just that there are "better" pres for the money?

Let me just say , this is a special box and mark my words, in this recession it may take up to a year or more, but I feel quite strongly that this little honey will make an impressive impact in due time! (It is already a History maker!)

I guees this piece is not worthy of its matching sisters, the LA 2A , 1176. :eek:

Mad John
Zythum Studios

"The present day Composer refuses to die!"
Edgar Varese - 1921

Does anyone really think a company like UA would produce a piece of junk?

Does everyone really think Fletcher's opinion is the only one that matters?

Does anyone ever just go out and buy gear to try out for them self's anymore - without engaging in an extensive internet survey first?

Has anybody else realized that at this level they're all pretty damn good?

Still love my 2-610 :D

Originally posted by bassmac:
Has anybody else realized that at this level they're all pretty damn good?

Absolutely. Way better than a Mackie, presonus, ART, etc....

But at this level, there are several other pre's on any given source that I prefer over the UA. And they just happen to be cheaper. Those are the ones I want to use. He asked our opinion and thats just me.....

of course YMMV...

well, having just been to AES...

i have a pendulum MDP-1. very flexible. sounds clear, or you can grunge it up. dosen't handle ribbons well, but if you call greg, he has a fix for it.

the great river mp2-nv is amazing.
the flamingo [crane song] is pretty cool. i'm about to get a spider.
i haven't heard the api, but sounds like a good bet.
the earthworks are transparent as hell, and there is a 4 channel demo unit on sale at mercenary right now for a great price.

also, maybe the drawmer 1969? decent pres, KILLER compressor. that low cut in sidechain switch kicks ass on bus compression [either mix or drums, esp].

but the great river stuff is killer, and dan kennedy is a rad guy who knows his shit.

remember: a great pre isn't worth shit with out good converters. lucids were great for the price, benchmarks are fucking unreal.

and if you can save up enough...the spider is the fucking bomb, sound and value wise.

as for flexibility--pendulum all the way. but i think a great river or an api 3124 is a great idea too. try em out. mercenary has a great return policy, and fletcher has cool hair.

--owen

Dan-O
I own Brent Averill 1073 and Api 312's. They rock. Their support is awesome. I use these pre's with Tube_Tech's and Avalon. Recently I decided to get 2 more 1272's for 1600 instead of a deal with Focusrite for 4 red pre's for the same price.
Tim

Tim 01

I'm awaiting a Vintech 1272 at the moment with baited breath.(thanks Nathan).
Now having sold my car (65' Impala ss) :( I'm looking for more.
This is my jump into quality pre-amp land.
Many under consideration including the 2-610.
But I think I'm really looking for something more aggressive for kick & snare. For the rock stuff anyway.

I noticed that the Brett Averill API two channel has an option to have Reichenbach transformers put in. My understanding is that they are more aggressive sounding transformers than the Jensen's(I read this some where).
Or maybe the Jensen's are more versatile? Any thoughts? They seem to be very well priced.

I will be calling Brett Averill on this BTW. Just thought it would make interesting commentary. :D

Dan-O

Will somebody please try a shoot out with the 2-610? (especialy on vocals)

The more studios/engineers/musicians that really try the pre and work with the special features , may find that it is a welcome addition and perhaps in a class by its self.

Hell, when my credit card isin't throbbing so violently as it is now, I plan on getting a second one!

Some of you will catch on , trust me. ;)

Anyway , Frank Sinatra was noted for favoring this pre and although not exactly the same , it preaches the same vibe , only now with more results!

Cheers!

Mad John
Zythum Studios

"The present day Composer refuses to die!"
Edgar Varese - 1921

John and bassmac,

I'm not a heavy user of tube pres, though the Tubetech MP1A and DW Fearn are excellent and preferable to my ears to the UA pre.

Of the pres I work with regularly, I just find that the Neve 10XX, GML 8304 and Martech MSS10 pres each have a class and a sound that I really prefer. These are not all necessarily pres that I have purchased BTW.

It's nice to be happy with a purchase, but I am curious what other pres you guys own and are comparing the UA pre to.

Jon

Jon makes a good point, afterall, how does one know who's giving the pre opnion, and what kind of pre experience they have.

As for me, I'm not a pro, and I don't have a studio full of high end pre's to compare.

In my younger days making records, I was around some very impressive gear at some of the top studios here in LA. But unfortunately for me, when I wasn't tracking, I was usually out playing pool and doing bong hits with the guys instead of checking out the cool gear - youth!

If you'll notice, I never claimed the 2-610 is better than anything else - only that I loved mine. The only other pre I've owned in this league is the Avalon 737 - and I liked that too, and I'm sure I'd like all the other ones you all talk about as well. I have heard many of them, and I think it just gets to be a matter of personal preference - a lot like ice cream.

If you've ever checked out a guitar forum, you'll find heated battles raging over what the "best" guitar, or amp is. Hell, you use to just walk into a guitar store, play "Smoke on the Water" a few times, and say "I'll take this one". But now with the internet age, and discussion forums, everybody has become obsessed with debating what the "best" gear is. And that type of thinking doesn't leave much room for variety, which is important in music.

I'm an amateur. I make no money from recording - but I still love my UA :D

Right on Bassmac,

I here you.

Me, I had an Art duel MP and before that I just plugged into the toaster , so for me the 2-610 is better than the previous options!

Cant believe this is being debated with out the Mayo!

Mad John
Zythum Studios

"The present day Composer refuses to die!"
Edgar Varese - 1921

The 2-610 is something you want to buy after you have everything. I had a demo that we sold and a new one that we were selling because all I ended up using it for was for EQ's on the returns of my PCM-91. This thing is perfectly suited for that purpose, but it is beyond the catch phrase of "warm" it is highly colored and attenuated in the highs, and it seems to center around the mids quite a bit. If you want that very colored sound that is the antithesis of "clear" (ie millennia/Great River/John Hardy) then it is the way to go. I won't say it is bad or good, it is what it is and it is usable for certain applications.

Vintech, Millennia, Great River & API are a good starting place. I think the Vintech 1272 is the biggest bang for the buck on the pro market today. I don't hear a fundamental difference between it and my Brent Averill 1272, especially for the $500+ price difference.

Dan-O
The Vintech probably sounds great. From what I've read it is a nice pre. There are variations of the same theme at this level. You can't go wrong. After you've got a bunch of neutral and colored pre's it's the source. Let me know what you think of them.
Tim

I have a 2-610 I a/b'd it with what I could find in OZ at the time. (Which is normally not much)
I a/b it with a 737 which sounded thin to me.
Joe meek(do not know why).
Trident signature series all they had at the time from MTA.
DBX silver stuff (again do not know why)
I have a Buzz audio(which is meant to be similar to a Great River).
A neve a/b class quad pre from a broadcast console.
Control24 Focusrite platinum pres.
TL audio quad valve hybrid thing.

I liked the 2-610 the best so I brought it.

Mind you I was holding off awaiting a Flamingo and a Great river Neve to A/b against
The flamingo came in around a month after I got the UA.
The Great River Neve is still coming according to the distributors web site.

I just purchased a 9098 dual that I will do some tests tomorrow with and let you know If I like it better.

Originally posted by davemc:

I have a Buzz audio(which is meant to be similar to a Great River)

No it isn't. The buzz has more of a sound than the transparent GR. It's a great acoustic guitar preamp. Here again, good on everything, great on most things.

I assure you Tim Farrant was not making a preamp to be similar to Dan Kennedy's GR. Both are great but are different flavors.

Hello Dave,

Hurray, thats one mark on the wall for us! :cool:

What qualities of the 2-610 do you find are more prefable than your other pres?

Cheers,

Mad John
Zythum Studios

"The present day Composer refuses to die!"
Edgar Varese - 1921

"Why do you think that is?" - Jon Bon Jovie - 1987

I do not know I just like the color it has for vocals, could be it and the rode classic, go together well.
I know some other people who have brought then and liked then and othersthat thought they were not worth the money. I think with a lot of things it personal taste.
Yes I know the Buzz is not the same as the GR. Lot of people do not know what it is so I put it in the same category.(sorry) The 9098 is again a clean transparent pre, I will give it a go later today I brought it for kick/snare and have the Buzz for OH's. Again I wanted to try out some API's none in the country.

davemc

Do you have any knowledge of this company or the quality of the pre's?

http://www.jlmaudio.com/products.htm

Dan-O

Stephen Paul.. .. What do you think of the 2-610? I have apair of Brent's 1272s that I use along with the Manley ELOP when tracking vox. I use one of your U87s, which sounds unbelievable,BTW. Best mic I've ever heard. Money well spent!!! I'm planning on buying another pair of pres this month. What would you suggest to pair up with the U87 mod? The 1272s sound great, I just want two more channels and anoher option.

Yes Stephen,

I second that.

We would love to hear your responce to the 2-610!

Peace & Dreams,

Mad John
Zythum Studios

"The present day Composer refuses to die!"
Edgar Varese

"I asked you not to tell me that!" Maxwell Smart

Check do an A/B shootout yourself.
In the US you have a better range to shootout with so go for it, everyone is different. We all do different styles here.
I had yesterday off, first day off in a while, have to go down and tonight so I will a/b with acc/vox/amps/drums.

Yeah I have found that JLM place a while ago, sort of interested. They are around 1,400 miles away so it is not easy to just check out.
They are being used by some known people in OZ, maily the Eq's and comps though.

Hi,
Don't sell you Peavey VMP-2 short it is in the same league as the others, they are all just different. Even with a Neve 1272 and a Avalon 737 I still find use for the Peavey even on vocals at times. One of the Neve modules (Vintech, Brent Averill, Dan Alexander, Amek) or a 737 would make a great addition to your VMP-2. I think I might stay away from the Manley or UA all tube models because they will give you the same kind of sound (different but similar in they are also all tube paths). Just my opinion.

Gentlemen/Ladies, Thanks for all your input. I have decided to try out an GREAT RIVERS MP2-NV, I think it may have the sound and flexibility I'm looking for. Thanks to Jay at Mercenary, he was a great help and I like their return policy. I will leave further updates...I still really like the features of the Avalon 2022..maybe next time..
best;Harry :w:

Originally posted by coldsnow:
Hi,
One of the Neve modules (Vintech, Brent Averill, Dan Alexander, Amek) or a 737 would make a great addition to your VMP-2. I think I might stay away from the Manley or UA all tube models because they will give you the same kind of sound (different but similar in they are also all tube paths). Just my opinion.

The Amek is a whole different flavor than the old Neves and clones.

And I disagree that just because something is tube it will give a "similar" sound. It depends on the quality of the maker (Are we talking presonus blue tube or Manley?) and it depends on what the maker was going for (DW Fearn or Avalon?)

Actually most hi end tube preamps are very clean in their linear gain range.

my two cents:

1. ALL the mic pre's that have been mentioned above are very good. hello?
I've been forced in the past (as I'm sure many of you have been) to record on mackie pre's, etc. World class artists nonetheless...I didn't like it but it didn't effect the song or album sales. OK RANT OVER.
2. Again: ALL the mic pre's that have been mentioned above are very good.

I haven't used the new UA 2-610's yet, but I've used the originals (@ OceanWay L.A.), many times. For the situations they was in they were beyond great. 1073's are probably the single all around best channel ever designed. API' s are amazing...if all I had was an API how could I turn to the producer and say.."sorry it doesn't sound great...I've only got API's to work with". Actually you could replace API with any of the PRE's mentioned above.

That said. The problem with comparing any peice of new gear is being able to adjust your technique to maximize the pluses and minimize rhe negatives of said gear. Example; I don't really like gml pre's, I personally find them cold every time I've worked with them. But if I was thrown into doing an album at The Complex (Massenburg's old studio-all gml consoles) I'd adjust my mic choice/placement and gain structure choices to maximize the pre's.

If it were me? save enough to buy at least two pair. Pair#1? UA 2-610. Pair#2? Vintechx73(1073 copy) Why?

A. it's good to have Tubes and Solid State.
B. While not the originals they get you 95% there for ALOT less money AND you get matching repair free gear.
C. The UA gives you impedence matching (For ribbons).
D. The Vintechs give you EQ (1073 style at that).
C. Cost would be around $4k a little more than maybe ONE original 1073.
...etc.

You can argue...but if you couldn't make a record on the above pair's I'd call you spoiled...

Thanks to all for the feedback..It's been a long study. I have decided to get the Great Rivers Mp2-NV..Thanks to jay at Mercenary for the excellent feedback, I also like their rtn. policy If I can't live with it...I'm really taking a liking to the Avalon 2022 also...Maybe next time..need to buy the baby (10 yrs old) some stuff now.
Happy Holidays to all...Harry :w:

Sorry for the double..sticky fingers H

I didn't mean that they sounded just alike. The VMP-2 is actually clean in some respects as well. My point was that if all you have is an all tube model, I would go with something more solid state like the Neve and the Avalons (I know the 737 has tubes but it sounds more solid state with a touch of tube sound to me) for your second preamp.