That would depend on the business plan.

I built my tiny place by living next door to it. I did little or no hands on work on it. Merely keeping an eye on contractors and the friends I got in to do it. I found I had PLENTY to do re it's build without physicaly laboring on it. We made a lot of stuff up as we went along, I had a walkie-talkie set up between my 'office' and the studio, I would zip round if needed, (and that was OFTEN)

Can you afford to stop working to be at the consruction site all the time? (when it's done will you still have an audio business left?)

Chums / indavidual contractors need a LOT of supervision - I recomend that you live / set up an office nearby.

Hiring a pro team will allow you to work freely & live 'off site'.

Will you be doubling up on gear? or using the trucks gear? Strikes me you should be designing your place so whiping gear in and out of the studio racks / truck - at short notice is always possible. I have a friend who doesn't like any gear that is not flightcased! DONT get hung up on 'fitted gear looks' - dont lose sight that you are the KEY MAN! And you are a MOBILE KINDA GUY! If your new palce has wheelable flightcase racks for outboard instead if wooden cabinets - SO BE IT! Yoo da man! Make your mobile / stationary studio dream, plan for all occaisions. I were you I would plan to be working say on a remote choir gig, but be able to rent out the studio to a trusted engineer and have enough equipment for him/her to be able to record a rock band. Two sessions at once, more money = more chance to survive.Also a studio is easyier to rent out when you are away on holiday (trusted engineer friend) than a mobile truck I immagine.

Good luck!

:)

Can you afford to stop working to be at the consruction site all the time? (when it's done will you still have an audio business left?)
------------
That's the rub. I don't think so. If I were to give up the day gig, the income from the Mrs. alone wouldn't hold us.
------------
Chums / indavidual contractors need a LOT of supervision - I recomend that you live / set up an office nearby.

Hiring a pro team will allow you to work freely & live 'off site'.
-------------
The property has a house that I will live in. So I will be on site.

It also has a 932 sq ft office/lounge area that has a section that could be turned into an additional 576 sq ft of sleeping accomodations.

There is an unfinished barn that is 32x32 and an existing addition of 16x32 that should work fairly well as either iso booths or a drum and percussion suite.

I want a quality facility when I'm done. Heck, if I'm gonna do this, I want to do it right. So, I know I'm going to need to hire a good designer/architect for the control room and any other additions plus the completion of the studio itself.

I've got about half a dozen musicians who are qualified carpenters and my son-in-law is a commercial roofer. But I don't really know if this is a really practical approach or not.
-----------
Just my 2 euro pennies.
-----------
... and just how much is the interest rate to borrow those 2 euro pennies?
----------
Good luck!
------------
Thanx, I gonna need it...

Originally posted by Ang1970:
That would depend on the business plan.

Seriously, I'm not being a smart-ass... but this IS part of the process of putting my business plan together.

i.e. If I'm the contractor, then I can build the studio as I have the funds and time to do it. But if it's a foolish way to proceed with the physical aspect of the studio, then I would need to write the business plan to reflect the needs/requirements for the additional funding for a turnkey operation.

If it's a generally acceptable risk to build as funds are available then I can possibly build the studio for less than $150-$175 US per sq ft. Otherwise I will be looking at a $250-$350 US per sq ft cost.

So, are the cost savings worth going after to use on gear to outfit the studio? I dunno. Any ideas?

Thanx,
Max

If you haven't built at least half a dozen studios from the ground up, hire someone who has. You can read books on acoustics, but they will not replace an experienced acoustician. You can use friends who are skilled carpenters, but if they've never built a studio before, you will at very least require a project manager that has.

A recording studio is a very labor intensive bit of construction. It starts to look like something quickly, then can languish for weeks before you see any real noticable changes. This is often one of the largest causes of frustration during the process. This frustration can lead to corners being cut, which will lead to your studio being less than it should/could be.

There are a million and a half "little" details that all need to be addressed, from wire troughs to 120vac/audio line separation. How to best build the floor to accomodate both, so you can use the shortest runs possible, while avoiding stray field induction. Power into the building...3 phase? Single phase? The pro's and con's of each (they're often different for each application), do you want to run the majority of your equipment on 220vac rather than 110vac? Why?

If it's done properly, it can take 2-3 days to mount the main monitors in the front wall...down to whether the control room will be on one level all the way across, and if the rest of the facility will have the same level floor, or if there will be ramps.

I would never presume to give advice on such things on an internet bulletin board, but I would definitely advise you to hire a professional to design and oversee the project. In the long run, the results should be superior, and just the reduced number of "ahshits" will more than justify the added expense.

[FYI, an ahshit is when you realize you forgot something seemingly minor that turns out to be rather critical].

Best of luck with the project!!

Note:
I kinda fell out with ALL the chums I got in to work for me. :)

Perhaps alert the studio builder co to the local talent you have, but let him decide to use em or not. Keep your friends and things cool with relations!!!

Originally posted by xaMdaM:
i.e. If I'm the contractor, then I can build the studio as I have the funds and time to do it. But if it's a foolish way to proceed with the physical aspect of the studio, then I would need to write the business plan to reflect the needs/requirements for the additional funding for a turnkey operation.I mean what do you intend to do with the studio once it's built? I know you want to scoop up the loose bucks that are flying past you, but you haven't really described what kind of clientele you're going after, what specific services they need, and what they will be likely to pay for them. You've calculated the investment risk, but it doesn't quite seem like you've calculated how you're going to pay it all off. Think more long term, and that will help you with the decision immediately in front of you.

Originally posted by Fletcher:
If you haven't built at least half a dozen studios from the ground up, hire someone who has. You can read books on acoustics, but they will not replace an experienced acoustician. You can use friends who are skilled carpenters, but if they've never built a studio before, you will at very least require a project manager that has.

Thanx for the heads up. That's EXACTLY what I was wanting to know. While I had no plans to design the studio/controlroom itself, I wasn't really sure if I should attempt to tackle the project management.

A recording studio is a very labor intensive bit of construction. It starts to look like something quickly, then can languish for weeks before you see any real noticable changes. This is often one of the largest causes of frustration during the process. This frustration can lead to corners being cut, which will lead to your studio being less than it should/could be.

There are a million and a half "little" details that all need to be addressed, from wire troughs to 120vac/audio line separation. How to best build the floor to accomodate both, so you can use the shortest runs possible, while avoiding stray field induction. Power into the building...3 phase? Single phase? The pro's and con's of each (they're often different for each application), do you want to run the majority of your equipment on 220vac rather than 110vac? Why?

If it's done properly, it can take 2-3 days to mount the main monitors in the front wall...down to whether the control room will be on one level all the way across, and if the rest of the facility will have the same level floor, or if there will be ramps.

I would never presume to give advice on such things on an internet bulletin board, but I would definitely advise you to hire a professional to design and oversee the project. In the long run, the results should be superior, and just the reduced number of "ahshits" will more than justify the added expense.

[FYI, an ahshit is when you realize you forgot something seemingly minor that turns out to be rather critical].

Best of luck with the project!!

Thanx Fletcher! ...BTW, I did contact most of the firms you've suggested and figured that they 'll call after the first of the year.

xaMdaM

Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
I believe you're in the same neck of the woods as Wes Lachot, who's a studio designer who was profiled in Tape Op and did an article for them on bass cancelations in the control room. I don't know his work personally, but the profile piece says he shoots for making studios from new construction no more expensive per square foot then a residential house. Maybe treat him to lunch to get a rough idea of what he could do for the place.

Bear

Hey Bear,

Thanx for the remider about Wes. He's got a great reputation around here as a good designer. Any ideas as to any project managers in my area?

xaMdaM

Originally posted by Ang1970:
I mean what do you intend to do with the studio once it's built? I know you want to scoop up the loose bucks that are flying past you, but you haven't really described what kind of clientele you're going after, what specific services they need, and what they will be likely to pay for them.

My current clientele is comprised of choirs, gospel groups, acoustic acts, percussion ensembles, jazz, fusion, and rock bands.

I'm tracking everything from 5 song demos to full blown album projects. The work I'm missing is everything from the whole project to the mix-down with overdubs... and only because I don't have a decent facility to come back to to do the work.

You've calculated the investment risk, but it doesn't quite seem like you've calculated how you're going to pay it all off. Think more long term, and that will help you with the decision immediately in front of you.

I think I'm following what your saying here... i.e. owning a studio for the sake of owning a studio is the wrong reason for building one. If I can get bookings for the mobile because I've got a decent facility to do the mix/overdubs/etc., then the reverse should also be true. I'm not sure if there is really a calculation or some type of measurable formula that I can plug in here, is there?

I know that I lost 6 complete projects this past year due to no extra facility. I've also seen 5 other projects become MAJOR "awshit" :mad: situations as I have had to utilize what limited space I have here now for overdubs and the like... besides, mixing on nearfields is a bitch. Getting a good mix is tough enough without the added hassle of having to redo the damn thing because of issues related to the lack of a well built mixing room.

xaMdaM

Originally posted by xaMdaM:
If I can get bookings for the mobile because I've got a decent facility to do the mix/overdubs/etc., then the reverse should also be true. I'm not sure if there is really a calculation or some type of measurable formula that I can plug in here, is there?There is, actually. But you have to have a degree in business to convince anyone that it isn't complete BS. :)

I would give it a go on your own. Check out the F. Alton Everest books availble at Amazon.com. I personally liked the "Sound Studio Construction on a Budget" the best. also check out this link.

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

Joe

Bear brought up Wes Lachot before I did- I have heard good things about him. I wouldn't worry so much about finding a project manager yet- if you follow Angelo's rough estimation plan, and then contact Wes, you will have a budget to hand him, and I'm 99% sure that he is going to be more plugged in to the project managers/ builders/ contractors around your area than you. Let him help you through that part, as well as the actual design. Keep us all posted, too!

Originally posted by xaMdaM:

xaMdaM

Originally posted by Jon Best:
Bear brought up Wes Lachot before I did- I have heard good things about him. I wouldn't worry so much about finding a project manager yet- if you follow Angelo's rough estimation plan, and then contact Wes, you will have a budget to hand him, and I'm 99% sure that he is going to be more plugged in to the project managers/ builders/ contractors around your area than you. Let him help you through that part, as well as the actual design. Keep us all posted, too!

Jon,

I talked to Wes yesterday afternoon and much to my surprise, he was not opposed to managing the project as well as design the studio and control room.. As a matter of fact, I think he's actually used to doing both the design and project management. He seemed pleased to know that his name and reputation were being put out there.

He really does seem to be interested in making this as good of a project as can be done within my budget. So I am hoping to at least get his input on the feasability of making this happen right...

I'm not ashammed to admit it here, or anywhere else for that matter, that I while I could "probably" handle the project management, but just like it is with lawyers... I'd have to be a fool to represent myself. I will definitly let you all know how things progress along.

I also recommeded that he sign up for recording.org. Anyone know if he's signed up yet?

Thanx,
xaMdaM

Looking good!

Are you going for soffit main monitors (in the wall)

Are they a little old fashioned and impossible to get right?

Free standing the new trend?

+ Cheaper?

In addition to all the helpful aforementioned tips about design, costs, etc. I would like to mention that you may want to check your local zoning laws.
If it is 10 acres of residentially zoned property, your local zoning ordinances may forbid a commercial operation on the property.

It is better to find out in advance than to spend the money building the studio only to have problems with the local zoning board. It may not be a problem. But if it is a problem, they can shut you down.

Just something to think about in addition to the 10,000 other concerns during such an ambitious undertaking. I also suggest opening an account with your local contractor supply house if you do the DIY route. You will get to know them and visit them often! They can help you out on pricing and will usually deliver promptly. They know all the local contractors and can guide you to the right person for the right job.

BTW, I hired a consultant, named David Rochester out of Nashville. I believe he is also currently the service manager for Amek in Nashville. He was immensely helpful, quite affordable, and saved me a bunch of money during my construction and design.

Good luck on your endeavor.

Chuck

Originally posted by Julian Standen:
Looking good!

+ Cheaper?

Haven't quite gotten that far in the decision proce$$. I would prefer to, but I doubt if the budget will really allow for it.

Any other opinions?

xaMdaM

Originally posted by Chuck Jopski / Summerhouse Sound:
...
If it is 10 acres of residentially zoned property, your local zoning ordinances may forbid a commercial operation on the property.

Chuck

Chuck,

The zoning issue was the first criteria I gave to the real estate agent. Zoning ordanaces here in NC are a bit different... The property is out in the county. Most property over .5 acres is zoned for dual purpose. (residential - small business/cottage business) Unless the business is commercial in nature, i.e. manufacturing or storefront retail, I shouldn't have to worry about it. But that is being looked into and I am supposed to have an answer tomorrow by noon.

There's plenty of timber on the property - Oak and pine. I've got a couple of friends who have sawmill operations who should trade out 1:1 on the lumber. (Thank God!) I also have the sawdust making hobby of making furniture and repairing antiques, so I've got a really good source for other types of exotic and domestic hardwoods... I can't see doing the entire floor in Zebra, Koa or Cocobolo... but it sure would be nice.

Here's my general list of STD... (Shit To Do)
What's Done:
No commercial air traffic within 30 miles.
Light air traffic (no jets) is limited to daytime only and we would be 4 miles off the landing approach. (airport is 15 miles away)
No heavy commercial/industrial with 2.5 miles.
Nearest grain elevator is about 1 mile away.
Nearest house is approximately 1500 feet.

Left To Do:
Verify Zoning - 99.5 percent sure it's OK
Soil Testing - Compaction
Water/Septic - Adding a bathroom/shower
Power - Line Load/Grounding/Stability

Once all of these are completed only then will I make an offer on the property.

If it does work out that the list is ok up to this point, then I should be able to get an estimate on the design/construction costs.

That's when I go for the rest of the financing... so far my budget looks to be around 175-200. Wes indicated that this should be a decent enough budget to work with...

Maybe a referb'd VR w/FF, a couple of A820's and Whirlwind copper... and if Jules will lend me those 2 euro's at a decnt rate :D I might look at a API lunchbox. Whatdaya think?

xaMdaM

Radon testing?

All wood eh? Will an axe get through to your equipment? Alarms etc

Will it be residential? How many will it be able to sleep? Fire exit's for the residents. Smoke alarms.

Work with choirs eh? How many cars can you park?

Clients with kids? Stuff for them? (go karts - air rifle range - ciggarette machines, beer etc) Seriously a swing outside and a ping pong / pool table might just get folks out of your hair when you need it..

Make it uncomplicated to clean / hose out.. remember we are talking musicians pre-ocupied with their recordings, not where to put an applecore or candy bar wrapper. Some designs beg tidyness others give the feel 'oh whats the use'! Goe for the "keep it clean" look as opposed to the "homey vibe", cause - it aint their home!

Can they cook there to save money on food delivery.. Will Balducci's deliver? ;)

It aint your house either, so build in lockable cupboards, and storage to keep pocketable items away from light fingered folks. Make it so if a client turns up with delinquent kids - you dont feel nervous - leaving to drive into town to pick something up you need...

Comms
Fax
Phones
Internet (recomend wireless laptop connection)
Can a manager or artist make a call and not disturbe the session? (cordless)
Cost of calls? Metered? Do Cel phones work out where you are?

If you have natural daylight (dont like it myself) watch out for my pet peeve, GLARE. carefully organise window / control window, live area windows so everyone can SEE and not be blinded by the reflections. (Fletcher and I don't have one BTW) Where do YOU want to see the light from YOUR vantage point in the control room - in the morning & at night. Angle the property accordingly..

Oh and if you could organise a pitch black cellar with a coffin and some earth from 'the old country' I might be really comfortable working there..

Make it so ANY freelancer / savey self recording artist could learn his way round in 15 mins... and not need the 'code book'

:eek:

Originally posted by Julian Standen:
Radon testing?

Actually, I know that Radon is required for the home, but I guess I wouldn't be able to have the additional testing until the buildings are complete... thanx for the reminder!

All wood eh? Will an axe get through to your equipment? Alarms etc

Again, I'm ultimately gonna have to wait until I talk with the designer to get the list of materials... There is already an alarm system in the house so it should just be the add on of the other buildings to the panel.

Will it be residential? How many will it be able to sleep? Fire exit's for the residents. Smoke alarms.

There's a 24x24 area that I should convert to sleeping for 4-8. Probably more with sleeping bags.

Work with choirs eh? How many cars can you park?

What I roughly measured was enough room for about 12 cars and 2-buses.

Clients with kids? Stuff for them? (go karts - air rifle range - ciggarette machines, beer etc) Seriously a swing outside and a ping pong / pool table might just get folks out of your hair when you need it..

There's a nice playhouse, swing and a 24' aboveground pool... plenty for the adults to do, huh?

There are some of those additional recreational type things within a couple of miles.

Make it uncomplicated to clean / hose out.. remember we are talking musicians pre-ocupied with their recordings, not where to put an applecore or candy bar wrapper. Some designs beg tidyness others give the feel 'oh whats the use'! Go for the "keep it clean" look as opposed to the "homey vibe", cause - it aint their home!

I was really thinking about a fairly nice atmosphere. Something comfortable but you do raise an interesting point...

Can they cook there to save money on food delivery.. Will Balducci's deliver? ;)

Yes, there will be a kitchen... The Mrs. has already told me that the stove, refridgerator and dishwasher ARE going to be replaced in the house, so... guess where they go?

Still not sure about delivery.

It aint your house either, so build in lockable cupboards, and storage to keep pocketable items away from light fingered folks. Make it so if a client turns up with delinquent kids - you dont feel nervous - leaving to drive into town to pick something up you need...

EXCELLENT! I really hadn't thought about that.

Comms
Fax
Phones
Internet (recomend wireless laptop connection)
Can a manager or artist make a call and not disturbe the session? (cordless)
Cost of calls? Metered? Do Cel phones work out where you are?

Cells definitely work fine. I'm contemplating a T1 so that we could transfer files to duplication facilities and possibly do web-casting and e-commerce. But again, you raise an excellent point about the metered long distance... damn there's alot of shit to put into action!

If you have natural daylight (dont like it myself) watch out for my pet peeve, GLARE. carefully organise window / control window, live area windows so everyone can SEE and not be blinded by the reflections. (Fletcher and I don't have one BTW) Where do YOU want to see the light from YOUR vantage point in the control room - in the morning & at night. Angle the property accordingly..

Again, I'll refer this to the design aspect that I haven't dealt with, but the heads up on the glare is something to keep in mind.

Oh and if you could organise a pitch black cellar with a coffin and some earth from 'the old country' I might be really comfortable working there..

Make it so ANY freelancer / savey self recording artist could learn his way round in 15 mins... and not need the 'code book'

;)

xaMdaM

Just got officially GREAT NEWS!! :D

It's official, I have NO ZONING restrictions... and hey, I've got an extra 4 acres in front of the house that's suitable for pasture...

I can either put horses, pigs and or AR guys out there! ... not so sure how safe the pigs would be with the AR guys in the same field... as long as they were vacinated they should be ok shouldn't they?... the pigs that is. :p

As far as monitors... I'm leaning toward Genelec in a wall mounted configuration. Anyone know anything about Griffin monitors? I believe they are made in Norway.

xaMdaM

"I'm leaning toward Genelec in a wall mounted configuration."

I think that could look great.

However ask around, wall mounted speakers might be a PITA, $$$ & not sound as good as free standing... Ask around... Do what SOUNDS best, if it a visual thing skip it, spend the money elsewhere..
As a freelancer I know wall mouted stuff to be 99% weird sounding / unusable.

On that subject, Nomis studio London descided to tear down the Tom Hidley designed main studio (the main monitors sounded great there - each sides amp was about $10,000 (some Japenese custom amp))
The accounts dept decided they needed more office space... :)

Dont assume wall mounts are the best...

I was supposed to go to a listening of the Griffins during the AES, but things got so crazy I had to back out. I figure I'll be sitting in on a mastering session soon that uses them anyway. Unfortunately that doesn't help you much right now, eh? I can tell you that the Griffin can be done in eiter free-standing or soffit-mounted versions.

For Griffins, get in touch with the American half of the design team, [="http://www.fmdesign.com"]Francis Manzella[/]="http://www.fmdesign…"]Francis Manzella[/]. He is located in Yorktown Hts. NY, and is number is 914-248-7680. Francis also happens to design studios, so he might have some useful suggestions about your situation as well.

Cheers!

p.s. You don't have to worry so much about vaccinations, but somebody might still call the [[url=http://="http://www.aspca.org"]ASPCA[/]="http://www.aspca.org"]ASPCA[/] on you for treating them that way.

Originally posted by Ang1970:
p.s. You don't have to worry so much about vaccinations, but somebody might still call the [="http://www.aspca.org"]ASPCA[/]="http://www.aspca.org"]ASPCA[/] on you for treating them that way.

Who... the AR guys or the pigs? The way I look at it that at least a pig has potential value... ham, bacon, ribs, etc... THEY are worth vaccinating against desease infested varmits... Oh wait, that WOULD be the definition of AR right?

[[url=http://="http://www.fmdesign…"]Francis Manzella Design[/]="http://www.fmdesign…"]Francis Manzella Design[/] is where I saw the Griffins. Damn they look nice, and if they sound as good as they're being touted, I might be better served going stand alone as opposed to a soffit mount and come out about the same... but with far fewer headaches.

If you do hear em' please let me know your opinion. I've listened to some KRK's and wasn'tr all that impressed.

I've listened to some Meyer stage monitors and would think that the X-10's might be worth giving a listen to as well.

I've used EAW and MacPherson in FOH and Monitor applications and didn't know if anyone had ever used the EAW stuff or not. Don't know of a Mac box that would even be worth considering.

xaMdaM
xaMdaM

Howdy everybody! I love this thread very interesting.

About the monitors. I'm a New Genelec dealer, and I would definately go with them. I am of course biased, but I think they are a great solution. If you do wall mounts with Genelec you need to let me know and I will get you hooked up with the engineers. Your price covers installation, a very touchy thing, as you guys know. If you contact them after the fact (after construction has begun) then it is a can of worms. Thats why you contact them first so they can help you design the whole wall structure so it is done right, and to specs. The price is around $50k, but it is done RIGHT.

Let me know if you have any questions or gear needs, I don't know all the answers ... but I know where to get them. Keep up the thread! I love this board

Darren
www.dixondigital.com"]www.dixondigital.comhttp://www.dixondigital.com[/url]

Originally posted by xaMdaM:
... not so sure how safe the pigs would be with the AR guys in the same field... as long as they were vacinated they should be ok shouldn't they?... the pigs that is. :p

You might want to keep the girl pigs in a separate field. Also, I'm not sure, but I've heard that you shouldn't feed pigs stuff that contains the ground bones of AR guys.
:w:

Originally posted by xaMdaM:
Who... the AR guys or the pigs?

The pigs of course! I don't think there's a ASPCA&RG (American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Artist & Repetoire Guys), if there was it would be pretty sickening.

Originally posted by Ang1970:

The pigs of course! I don't think there's a ASPCA&RG (American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Artist & Repetoire Guys), if there was it would be pretty sickening.

Hmmmm, ASPCA&RG... isn't that actually a bit of a contradiction of terms? Beides, if it did exist, shouldn't that be a organization with another name... Unemployment Benefits?

...and I don't think I could get a union dues card for a member that just says "pig" either...
wait that didn't make sense... AR Guys aren't union are they? :p

xaMdaM

Originally posted by patrick:

You might want to keep the girl pigs in a separate field. Also, I'm not sure, but I've heard that you shouldn't feed pigs stuff that contains the ground bones of AR guys.
;)

But you are right, you would want to keep the pigs (hogs and sows) in different fields from the AR Guys.. They might breed with with one of them. I'm not sure what you would call it, but you damn sure wouldn't want to eat it!

xaMdaM

Originally posted by Darren@dixondigital.com:
... Your price covers installation, a very touchy thing, as you guys know. If you contact them after the fact (after construction has begun) then it is a can of worms. Thats why you contact them first so they can help you design the whole wall structure so it is done right, and to specs. The price is around $50k, but it is done RIGHT.

Darren
dixondigital.com

Darren, et al,

You mention that $50k is an installed price. What I guess I'm trying to figure/calculate/justify/whatevertermyouwanttoinjecthere is this;
Who wins the pissin' contest when/if there's a difference of opinion as to the wall/soffit construction?

Who's gonna pay for the changes if your engineer's give my project manager/architect incorrect spec's for my room size and dimensions and construction methods and materials?...

I'm not being disrespectfull at all. This would and does apply to any vendor on any project as complicated as a control room.

I know I end up on the short end on the sheckles, but who generally accepts the legal shit when something, an "awshit" , as Fletcher so appropriately put it, happens?

I'm realizing, as most of you seasoned pro's already know, that we are talking about some serious damn dollars here. Are there contractual obligations/loop-holes that I need to be concerned with in this area? (

Hey Julian, is this what you meant?DUH

... Or does all of this stuff get addressed PRIOR to the first nails... and is this common practice to iron out these types of details at the time of RFP's? or at design?

Inquiring minds want to know... and so do I.

starting to get the swimmies... xaMdaM

Been busier than a cat in a litter box trying to find a new piece of property... since the last one fell through, damnit.

Have a few more questions and considerations...

As far as a new board... a smaller frame SSL w/5.1 upgrades and a RADAR 24, a full blown 48 track ProTools rig, Yamaha DM2000, or possibly a couple of TASCAM DM24's ganged together?

Any thoughts?

My thoughts, not on a new board, but a new piece of property (I's a rural landowner myse'f):
Don't give in too early! Hold out for what you really want. There's property coming up all the time, and you're going to sink so much into developing it and the studio you best get what you're after! May not be too popular with the agents and that.
Happy hunting!
Ted

Whoah!

That sort of indecision on gear throws up some red flags!!!

:)

A couple thoughts.

First, Alsihad HD IS going to really change how people work over the next five years depending on how good or bad it turns out to be. I wouldn't invest in anything other than walls, monitors and a lounge until the second shoe drops on that issue.

Second, it's important to understand that a studio's clients need to be able to conduct their own business while they attend recording sessions. Things like a receptionist, a comfortable lounge, FAX and copying machines plus having several private rooms available for meetings or phone calls are more important to many clients than what kind of console or recorders you have. If you are not around the corner from a Kinkos and across the street from a restaurant, this kind of stuff will make or break your business.

Yer Oh so right Ted.

The only problem is finding AFFORDABLE property. Example:
20 Ac - BEAUTIFUL piece of land - $240K - NON-NEGOTIABLE! UGH! (100x80 barn)
150 Ac - Can subdivide - $2.5Mil
10 Ac - Hard to get to - $220K ea. - Two sites
5 Ac - Great Loc - $220K - 3200Sq ft home*
5 Ac - A bit out of the way - $178K - 2350Sq ft home
3 Ac - Good location - $229K - 2100Sq ft home
*This is the one we go look at tomorrow.

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson:
A couple thoughts.

First, Alsihad HD IS going to really change how people work over the next five years depending on how good or bad it turns out to be. I wouldn't invest in anything other than walls, monitors and a lounge until the second shoe drops on that issue.

Second, it's important to understand that a studio's clients need to be able to conduct their own business while they attend recording sessions...... will make or break your business.

This too is adding to the pseudo "problem" of selection of a new console. (Sorry about the red flag Jules) Lemme' 'splain it dis' way...

The more construction I have to do, the less overall dollars are left to invest in gear.

To build a complete studio from "ground up", I'm going to be a bit stretched to put in much more than something like the Yamaha or the TASCAM... and therefore I would end up with a smaller control/mix room.

If I can find existing facilities that work halfway to the end result, e.g. lounge, office facilities, dining/kitchen, media room, meeting room, etc... I end up being able to afford a more "conventional" approach to a larger control room. Thus planning for a larger format console like an SSL or a complete ProTools system becomes a reality.

Either way I go, I realize that the gear is not the whole picture. Nor is the facility the be all end all... if I don't have gear that will give the best performace/return for the dollar.

As Julian mentioned, these are indeed difficult times to make gear decisions. If I were looking to put in just a tracking facility, I would be looking at this in a totally different way. Again, the work I'm really missing out on is due to lack of a good mixing facility. So I know this is a great big balancing act.

If the whole thing would happen the way I'd like, I'd find a facility that would just need a control/mix room added/fitted up and I'd put in an SSL/RADER24 (x2) or 48 track ProTools system.

I guess I'm just struggling with wanting to have the best mixing facility I can afford and what gear is going to meet those needs.

Certainly one thing to consider is that a lot of buildings sell for far less than they would cost to construct today.

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson:
Certainly one thing to consider is that a lot of buildings sell for far less than they would cost to construct today.

I may be completely insane here... ok, I'm at least partialy insane, I guess that's why I love this business! But, what I'm really thinking is going to be the best situation for me is to try to put the studio in the house/home where I live.

Commercial property in the area is more that insanely priced. Most relatively decent buildings are running around $45 sq ft for less than 1000 sq ft. Buying is worse... So far the only 3 acceptable facilities were in excess of $200k each. Thus, I keep coming back to putting it on 5 or more acres and incorporating into my home.

I've found a 5 bedroom, true modular... and it could possibly work. It's 3100 sq ft with the entire second floor able to be committed to the business. I just need to build the control room facility and some how get steps into the upstairs in a way that doesn't destroy the look of the home. It shouldn't be that hard, just a bit of tedium in moving all of the outside HVAC units and centralizing them to a better location.

Any thoughts?

Max

My house studio, in no way suited to commercial recording business, lacks a really good control room. I like the idea of building an outbuilding for a control room, so I could have an old school huge thing 20x30 absolute minimum and high slanted ceilings. It could be an advantage to have it close to but not physically connected to the tracking area (which sounds less crucial in your case), as sound travel would be at a minimum and you can monitor on video if it's impractical just to have windows on both buildings that you can see through into the tracking area. Just an idea.
I've been loving the quiet out here in my little valley. I've got a ridge in between me and any neighbors. :p If they want to run a backhoe all day I hear only a vague subtle subsonic tone. Gunshots can be a problem but these are infrequent. The single cargo air route over the house is like clockwork. I've never had a problem with it but it would be easy to figure out the schedule and take a five minute break then.
So I have no soundproofing at all and record with the windows open- birdcalls don't really pickup, oh well! And I have no air conditioning, forced air furnace, refrigerator or anything else to cause rumble issues.
If your paradise is not this quiet you should look for a huge concrete agricultural building. In my area there are pear cold storage facilities you could park a small airplane in. Very cool! Masonry is the best soundproofing.
Big houses are very spendy, I bit big outbuildings are not nearly so much. For many buyers they are almost a nuisance.
I agree that this is trying times for buying gear. A really good room will be useful with whatever they have in 2050. The best investment, although you could probably use a good piano too if you do much classical, choirs and that.
Maybe you should squirrel away some dough for equipment and forget about it until all the other facilities are in place. If it takes a couple years (reality sometimes! Especially when moving and developing the place at all) the gear scene could be really different. Let everyone else make mistakes in the meantime and learn from that what you really need.
Ted

I like the idea of building an outbuilding for a control room, so I could have an old school huge thing 20x30 absolute minimum and high slanted ceilings. It could be an advantage to have it close to but not physically connected to the tracking area (which sounds less crucial in your case),

You got it... that's exactly the situation I'd love to get into.

as sound travel would be at a minimum and you can monitor on video if it's impractical just to have windows on both buildings that you can see through into the tracking area. Just an idea.

A damn good one if you ask me. My thoughts were also pondering on whether I could possibly set up a VERY basic video system that would allow for webcasting... IF, big IF, I could potentially hook up with a decent video/internet video/audio outfit... (Some pipedream huh?)

Masonry is the best soundproofing.
Big houses are very spendy, I bet big outbuildings are not nearly so much. For many buyers they are almost a nuisance.

The only problem has been in finding that situation without it being thirty miles and fifteen turns off of any major road. I'm not giving up hope. I know that it'll be tough to find, but I expect to persevere.

I agree that this is trying times for buying gear. A really good room will be useful with whatever they have in 2050. The best investment, although you could probably use a good piano too if you do much classical, choirs and that.

I've got a line on a 1930's or 40's full size Steinway grand. Low miles and not too bad of shape... still negotiating... if I get it, I'll pay premium dollars I know, but I'd like to get Steinway to move it, set it up, and go through it... Besides, the AWF (Agreeable Wife Factor) indicated that this would be an absolute necessity to actually put a studio on the same property as our home.

Let everyone else make mistakes in the meantime and learn from that what you really need.
Ted

I'm beginning to sense that the overall consensous is to disregard the gear entirely at this stage of the game. But, don't I at least need take into account some sort of dimensional reasoning with the console? With wiring ducts and all, I'd almost think that it would be a necessity...

Max