Lynx and always getten great respect for the sound of their converters.

My own choice was to go with RME for the great suport and bullet-proof drivers and installation. And I chose Mytek for my external converters.

Aardvark is also worth a look.

Bill

Bill,

So would you rate the Mytek converters better than the Lynx and RME converters? Also have you seen the Apogee X-Cards, in particular the X-Firewire card? Talk about sweet. An external converter that serves as a soundcard as well!

My funds are tight, but I may be able to squeeze in one big purchase soon, just trying to maximize. Any more opinions on Lynx vs. RME vs. External Converters?

I'm sure not everyone will agree with me, but you asked for personal opinions, so here's mine:

I've used both the RME Hammerfall and the Lynx L22. (I reviewed the Lynx in Mix last year.) Both are very good cards, but personally I'd go with the Lynx. As recently as a couple of years ago RME ruled the roost, though I have heard a few reports of the RME drivers being a bit of a problem under XP. I'd imagine they've sorted those problems by now, but I must say I was very impressed by the Lynx....sonically, it's probably the only PCI card I've encountered that truly compares to a dedicated external hardware converter. And the construction of the hardware...not only the card, but even the breakout cables...is really high quality.

That said, I'm not in any way disparaging the RME. Both are quality interfaces. It's largely a matter of personal preference, I suppose, and I'm sure people come down in either camp. But IMHO, the Lynx impressed me more.

I'm looking into the Rosetta 800 and was wondering about the firewire option. I believe it won't be out till april(x-firewire), but this is the setup I really want to go with. Definatly a bonus when you have more than 1 DAW. I have 2 plus a laptop(new) all with firewire and currently use a motu896. I know the rosetta 800 would be an improvement over the motu, especially with the x-firewire card. I hope it all works fine with my current setup(all machines audio only on xp with nuendo and sx).

:p:

" though I have heard a few reports of the RME drivers being a bit of a problem under XP. I'"

Well, I've never heard that, but a trip to the RME newsgroup would verify it one way or another. I had been using 2000 for a long time, and only switched to XP about a year, year and a half ago. No problems since then.

My own view is that one should keep the converter seperate from the cards.... not for any electronic reasons, but for practical ones... like, if you decide to update and the converters are tied to the card, you have to install a new card. If the converters are seperate, you just unplug them and plug in the new ones.

Myself, when I get a card that I like, I don't want to change it. And when I find one made by a company that supports it's cards as well as RME does, I particularly don't want to have to abandon it to upgrade the converters. So I bought an RME all digital card, and Mytek converters.

I can't comment on RME converters compared to the
Lynx converters. I've never had the two side by side. I do have an RME Multiface for my laptop, which has 8 of their cheaper converters, and I do have an ADI-8 AE, which has their mid-range converters, but owning a rack of Myteks, why would I use the RMEs if I don't have to do so?

Bill

I read reviews in SOS of the Lynx Two and the REM HDSP 9632. Basically, Daniel your sentiments were reflected in those two articles, with the RME having the better drivers, features, etc. but the Lyns with the superlative converters and sound.

As I'm Mac-based, I've two main concerns.

1. I've heard that RME Windows drivers were better than their Mac drivers. Haven't heard much about Lynx Mac Drivers.

2. The card must be G5 ready, for when I'm ready to sacrifice a limb and make the plunge.

2a. As I don't yet have a G5 and I'm still in OS9, the card has to work in OS9 on a G4 Quicksilver.

Looks like both cards will cover me on both accounts, and, given that, I'd pick the better converters. I just don't have money for internal this and external that. But if I did, I'd get a Rosetta 800 with the FW card. Now that is schweeeet.

mitz

Originally posted by Mark Jones:

Looks like both cards will cover me on both accounts, and, given that, I'd pick the better converters. I just don't have money for internal this and external that. But if I did, I'd get a Rosetta 800 with the FW card. Now that is schweeeet.

mitz

Sure is "schweeeet" Mitz....can't wait until april. That is my only purchase for 2004 btw :s:

wish i could scrounge up $3k for it. of course $1k will be hard enough for me to get the fiancee to agree to.

Mark,

"
2a. As I don't yet have a G5 and I'm still in OS9, the card has to work in OS9 on a G4 Quicksilver. "

RME (and apparently everyone else) had problems with OSX. As far as I know, the RME drivers are fine for OS 9. But be smart... go to their newsgroup and ask. It's a good group, no flames, helpful people, and you can get there through the RME site.

What I really like about the RME is the Totalmix software.

Bill

yup...

If I had RME and totalmix I would maybe consider tossing that mixer of mine.

Can you save presets in totalmix? Such as for cue mix presets?

thanks,
Brock

Originally posted by BrockStapper:
yup...

If I had RME and totalmix I would maybe consider tossing that mixer of mine.

Can you save presets in totalmix? Such as for cue mix presets?

thanks,
Brock

Brock,

Yes, there are pre-made presets and you can replace the stock presets with your own.

I did toss the mixer.

Bill

cool man, thanks.

Yes, pretty much everyone's had issues with OS X...at the risk of sounding like I'm flaming Apple (which, honestly, is not my intent), even they admit "OS X was released before it was fully baked." (That's a verbatim, off-the-record quote from someone high up in their organization.) I did an article on OS X for EM a year or so ago, and since then Apple's been working pretty hard to sort out MIDI and audio issues, but for anyone using more than a single company's products (IOW, 99.99999% of users) the transition hasn't been without its bumps....several drivers and plugins lost along the way, etc.

FWIW, Lynx was showing their wares at NAMM and the person I queried said G5 compatibility was imminent. They're good about responding to emails...check their site.

As to RME, I agree their stuff is great and well supported. I do know there was a fair amount of traffic on the Steinberg beta forums and the (now closed) Tascam Giga forums regarding issues under XP....as I said upstream, I can't verify if that's still the case.

Bill, I don't necessarily disagree with your point about converters and card being separate, but I think Mark's original question was regarding the converters in those two cards. In any case, dedicated hardware converters are a beautiful thing, but if budget dictates an interface with the best possible converters, Lynx and RME are right up there.

Thanks guys,

As it turns out, my fiancee vetoed the purchase, so it looks as if ,at least for a while, I'll be stuck with my M-Audio card. Well at least it works.

I have a question concerning the effect of quality DACs on monitoring. I have a pair of Event 20/20s, bi-amplified. I know they're not the greatest monitors but what sort of difference would top quality converters make on my monitoring chain, if I go directly from, say, the Lynx to my events? I hear words like openness and clarity, and stereo depth. But to me, who's never experienced it, except in others' studios, how would it sound different?

mitz

The monitor chain will have an affect on what you will be able to hear (er.... duh? sorry for stating the obvious....) I can't tell you anything about the 20/20s as they did not make my personal 'cut' when I auditioned them, and I've moved well beyond that now. I can say that when I moved from the Mackies to the Cello/Dunlavy setup, removed the console, and added Mytek converters, the differences were stunning. I only considered this because of the TotalMix softare from RME, which made it possible for me to loose my console.

But is is highy possible for your monitoring chain, including your room and anything else which affects the sound between your source and your ears, to mask any advantages one might gain from better converters.

I had started on an article about converters and was investigating this very issue (with the input of Michal from Mytek and some other guys who would actually -know- the right answers,) when Lynn started to put together his converter disk set. I dropped my work in favor of his project, and I think that if you want to know if you will be able to hear the difference among converters, you might buy his converter CD and give a listen.

Bill

Originally posted by Bill Park:
I can say that when I moved from the Mackies to the Cello/Dunlavy setup, removed the console, and added Mytek converters, the differences were stunning. I only considered this because of the TotalMix softare from RME, which made it possible for me to loose my console.

Bill, I was basically a new-b and I took the advice of a salesman who told me that the 20/20s were the best thing under twice its price (meaning I would have to pay $1400 for better monitors). But he also convinced me to pick Logic over Cubase (sayng it was the best thing besides PT), and the MOTIF over the Triton and K2600, both of which were smart purchases IMO. And he advised me to pick up a used OASYS. (best thing I ever bought, well, besides my fiancee's ring and last thing I would sell, including the ring :o

So let me ask you, what do you use for an attenuator for your monitors, if your main mixer is of the soft variety? Surely you don't switch to TotalMix every time you want to turn them up or down?

mitz

Here's a link that uses software to show the difference between cards, i believe you can download it somewhere,,or some similar software

it shows the RME DS8 pro , and a Lynx 1 card, plus others,,

i had a link comparing lynx against RME , if i find I'll post,,

myself i have the RME HDSP 9632 attached to ADI 8 DS pros,,

was also considering a pair of channels under Mytek, but "hearsay " said clocks weren't as stable as other two discussed,,

either way , hope the link helps

http://www.channld.com/distspec.html

Sanity Inn

http://www.htpcgear.net/hifisound/hifisnd-01.html

Good stuff sanity.

For me the second article is much better, because spec measurement doesn't describe the sound. However its still useful.

Many thanks!!!

Mark,

"what do you use for an attenuator for your monitors, if your main mixer is of the soft variety? Surely you don't switch to TotalMix every time you want to turn them up or down?"

Funny you should ask...

I built an attenuator from a schematic from Bob Katz. It uses a couple of Fred Forssell op amps and a TKD stepped attenuating switch. All in all, I have about $900 invested in it, in a handful of extremely high quality parts. (Example.... it has 2 caps, $50 each.) I've never calibrated it. It's leaning against my desk, waiting for me to install it. I use TotalMix, which sits behind either Sequoia or SAWStudio. One mouse click brings it up, grab the faders and, done.

I use two ninteen inch LCD video monitors, so I generally leave about a half inch of the far right display showing the desktop, on which sits TotalMix.

I do need to get my attenuator installed, as it's reason to exist is to supply calibrated and repeatable listening levels.

There are many options, including some new ones. ButColeman Audio makes the most popular ones. NHTPro has a low-cost one. DACT and GoldPoint each supply parts and/or kits to build your own.

Bill

Mark,

oh, and I'm curious... why isn't the girl on the list of things that you would not sell???? (g)

Bill

My fiancee is absolutely wonderful, but she won't let me buy new toys anymore :td: So she didn't make the list.

You guys have a really nice discussion going so I hope i don't interupt too much. I'm in a similar situation as Mark (I'm saving for the engagement ring-although we both know were going to get married-just haven't bought the ring yet) and I'm also trying to upgrade my gear on a limited budget. I'm using and Maudio Delta 44 (I think that's the same one Mark said he had on another post) and I get a lot of hum from it. i have no idea how or where to find if I have a grounding problem. Someone recommended that i get a better card because I'm going to be upgrading my whole front end in the near future. They suggested the RME Multiface. I started investigating the multiface and then found other things such as the RME ADI 8 AE and SD that Bill mentioned that he has. What are these things and how do they work? I've always used a soundcard (my first one was the Lexicon Core 2 and now the MAudio) with a breakout box. When I look at the external converters such as the ADI8's it all looks greek to me. And what are you guys talking about when Bill mentions 2 sound cards like his Mytek converter and RME card? I thought that if you got something like the ADI 8, then you don't need another sound card. How does the Multiface compare with the ADI 8's? I thought I was just starting to understand all this stuff but now I feel more confused. Also, do ADI's and the Multiface do the converting outside of the pc? Maybe you can shed some light on all this stuff for me Bill and also sell me one of your extra RME converters :) just kidding ;) . Thanks!

David,

" i have no idea how or where to find if I have a grounding problem. "

Solve that first.

"I started investigating the multiface and then found other things such as the RME ADI 8 AE and .... What are these things and how do they work? "

You can buy audio cards that include converters, or those that don't. The Multiface has 16 I/O (plus spdif), 8 on its own internal converters, and another 8 accessable via Lightpipe/ADAT. The Multiface is a breakout box, and uses either an RME PCI card interface, or an RME PCMCIA interface. (one for desktop, one for laptop)

The Digiface has only digital I/O, 24 channels on 3 ADAT ports and spdif. It is a breakout box, too.

The 9652 has a similar configuration, but is an internal PCI card.

"When I look at the external converters such as the ADI8's it all looks greek to me."

These particular ones use ADAT ports for I/O. Some use TDIF. Some use AES/EBU.

"...when Bill mentions 2 sound cards like his Mytek converter and RME card? "

I use Mytek converters with my all digital I/O RME Digiface interface. Mytek converters are a step or so above Apogee.

"I thought that if you got something like the ADI 8,"

It is not a sound card, it is only converters.

" How does the Multiface compare with the ADI 8's?"

It is a sound card, and has 8 converters that are not quite as good as the ADI converters.

" Also, do ADI's and the Multiface do the converting outside of the pc? "

Yes, but this is really not an issue, except for cheap cards.

Bill