Hey all, I'm a new owner of a Zed-R16 and one of the really cool features the mixer has is of course the analog mixdown option where you can send the tracks back from the DAW to the mixer and mix the tracks like one would on a traditional analog mixer. But what I'm having hard time understanding is how its actually done or more importantly how is the mixed signals then recorded? Where does the analog mix go and how can I record that mix? Right now I'm running Ableton Live because that is what I'm most familiar with. How is Ableton going to send the track signals to the audio digital converter on the zed and be able to record the mixed version of those signals at the same time? Or is that even how it works? As you can see.. I'm confused. :cool:
A concise explanation to this question or point in the right direction would be much appreciated.
Thank you!
Comments
Regard the output of tracks from the DAW to the mixer as complet
Regard the output of tracks from the DAW to the mixer as completely separate from what happens to the two-track mix.
The raw tracks from the DAW come in via FireWire and can be selected to be the input of any or all channels. From there you can mix down to an analog two-track. This comes out on the XLR main outputs as analog and is also digitized and can be returned to the DAW as input channels 17 and 18, as Mo Facta indicated.
You do not have to use the internal digitization on the two-track master; in fact, I have had slightly better results by taking the analog two-track outs to a separate external A-D converter.
The manual is so vague. Im having a hard time with routing confi
The manual is so vague. Im having a hard time with routing configurations. It seems that only the first two channels can be mixed and those are the stereo outs. I cant figure out how to mix each channel individually. The faders work for each channel but the EQ's don't. Does anyone have experience setting this up?
If you have the Firewire connected and the ZED ASIO driver assig
If you have the Firewire connected and the ZED ASIO driver assigned in Ableton then you should see a total of 18 audio ins and 18 audio outs that can be assigned to tracks in Ableton. I don't know if Ableton is like Cubase but that's about it. If you only see one then maybe Ableton can't handle multiple channels at the same time, or you don't have Ableton setup properly, not sure I don't know much about Ableton.
The ZED gives you 16 mono channels and then the "Main" channels 17/18. You can assign any of those channels in and out or "to" the DAW or "from" the DAW.
EQ is switch selectable for each channel "In" or "Out". All this is thoroughly explained in the manual. If you don't have much experience with a recording mixer you should read it over several times and try each thing. If you figure out one channel you have the bulk of the thing down because all 16 channels are identical. The rest of the stuff is MIDI control and monitor sections. Each channel being mixed down is switched into the mix by the L/R pushbutton on each channel to the Main mix pair 17/18 on the firewire (the red faders).
The four pushbuttons on each 16 channels assign different configurations for each mono channel on the ZED and of course you need to select the appropriate one. The manual explains all this or look over the block diagram to get an idea how everything works.
Hope that helps.
Mo Facta, post: 371631 wrote: Just add a stereo track in your DA
Mo Facta, post: 371631 wrote: Just add a stereo track in your DAW, set it's output routing to "not assigned", the input to 17-18, and record-enable it. Then, when you're happy with your mix, record the results from start to finish. EASY.
Cheers :)
Exactly, in fact you can do that for any group of channels or just a couple of channels of the ZED.
Say you want 8 or 10 channels of drum mics as a mixdown. You can EQ, add effects like reverb either ITB or OTB with hardware etc mix those down to 17/18 the way you like it and "bounce" those down to your DAW.
Do the same thing for a group of guitars or vocals etc etc.....the possibilities are endless.
After you have these "stems" done, send them back to the ZED on any mono or stereo channels you like and do it all over again until you have everything in place and blended just the way you like. You can do that as many times as you like.
That is one of the great things about the ZED and using your DAW together as a hybrid system ITB/OTB.
The ZED lets you add analog warmth and richness to a source and the DAW acts like a big giant multi-track tape deck.
The flexibility and creativity of the ZED and your DAW gives you unlimited options.....
Ok, thanks for all the help. So Ive figured it out to the poin
Ok, thanks for all the help.
So Ive figured it out to the point that I can record the mix from the mian (red faders) in my DAW. And I can adjust the EQ for both of those channels which looks like the signal for the main is running though channels 1 and 2 on the mixer. So how do you adjust the EQ for each individual track? The only EQ's that respond are on channels 1 and 2. Shouldnt you be able to adjust the EQ's for each individual track? The only function that responds on each track is the faders. The EQ's dont (I do have them activation buttons for the EQ's engaged).
Ive been throught the manual front to back many times. Im not finding the answers to these questions so I thank everyone for your patience.
Which of the four pushbuttons on the channels do you have pushed
Which of the four pushbuttons on the channels do you have pushed in?
You keep saying only 1 and 2 work? Those are just two of 16 channels available.
Do you have the rest of the channels setup in your DAW or just 1 and 2?
Are you tracking with the ZED or mixing with the ZED?
Top = DIGITAL SEND POST (After) EQ
If you want to use the ZED EQ on your source as it's going into your DAW use this.
Second = DIGITAL RETURN PRE (Before) Insert point.
Use this if you want to bypass the insert point and go straight into the DAW.
Third = DIGITAL RETURN POST (After) EQ
Use this when you want to use the ZED EQ on your source coming back from the DAW.
Bottom = MIDI
Use this to use the MIDI control channel fader and control that same fader in your DAW track.
Like I said you can easily see how these work from the block diagram on Page 12 and the functional descriptions on Page 17.
Understand there are two stages to using a recording desk like this.
#1.) Tracking and recording your inputs.
You don't need to be too concerned with the main 17/18 channels at this stage.
At this stage you are setting your instrument levels at the board using the PFL and meter checks, adjusting EQ if you like, using the insert point for outboard hardware effects and adjusting that if you like, setting up each channel into your assigned tracks of your DAW and then recording that.
#2.) Mixing down those recorded tracks from your DAW to a master.
Once your tracks are recorded and complete, you can now play those back from the DAW track outputs to any of the ZED channels into the mixer.
At this stage each channel can be changed and setup with different settings like pan positions, EQ if you like and each one can be selected to go onto the master mix bus using the L/R switch.
At this stage your just playing back what you've recorded and mixing them.
Once you get a good analog mix of the tracks you like, setup a stereo bus in your DAW (within the same project) and assign that to input the master 17/18 channels. Record that. Make sure you don't have any output so you don't get a feedback loop.
Hope that helps.
Im talking about mixing tracks that are already recorded into th
Im talking about mixing tracks that are already recorded into the daw. I have the second button (yellow) engaged. But it only works on channels 1 and 2. I engage the second button (yellow) on channels 1 and 2, push play in the daw, and can draw the faders up on each channel and hear each individual channel. I can also lower or raise the mix volumes with the main faders and record that in the daw on a stereo track (i have to select channels 1/2 on the track to record the mix). What isnt working is the EQ for each channel on the mixer; Just the EQ's on channel 1 and 2 which adjust the mix. I'll be spending tonight working with it again and report back. Thanks all.
OK, I figured out how to route each track into the mixer from th
OK, I figured out how to route each track into the mixer from the DAW. I can run the mix to the mains but when I open a new track in my DAW and select 17 and 18 as inputs there is nothing coming in on 17 and 18, or so thats what is looks like in the DAW. The stereo track in the daw isnt recognizing the incoming signal.
Yeah..if only it was that easy. It must be the settings in the D
Yeah..if only it was that easy. It must be the settings in the DAW. I can add a new track and select the 17 and 18 in the "extension in" for that track in the daw but the daw isnt recognizing any signal coming in from the mixer. I know its sending information back because each channels "dig send" (top button) will send its own individual channel back to the daw if its engaged.
I would check your Audio Device channel configurations in Ableto
I would check your Audio Device channel configurations in Ableton and make sure you have all 18 channels assigned and showing up in there either in stereo pairs (which would be 9 stereo pairs) or 18 mono channels or a mix of those.
I use Cubase 6 and I usually have a configuration template with 8 mono channels (1-8) and 5 stereo pairs (9/10, 11/12, 13/14, 15/16 and 17/18 the main master pair).
The ZED is pretty straight forward and it will always send and return 18 channels back and forth over the firewire all dependent on where you have your channel switches set.
But you have to have the DAW software match those channels in its audio configuration using the ASIO ZED driver (which should be the latest version from A&H BTW).
Then its just a matter of where on the board you send and return things from Ableton and which controls you use on the ZED.
The ZED doesn't control the audio configuration inside Ableton or add them automatically. You have to set them up in Ableton yourself manually. Once all the channels show up in Ableton then its just a matter of starting a new track in Ableton set the "in" to whatever ZED channel you like and set the "out" to whatever ZED channel you like.
It doesn't even matter or have to be the same channel you go into or come out of. Take your pick. The only audio channels that are kinda special are the 17/18 master pair but those are effectively your main red faders no master EQ but then that's what the rest of the channel EQ's are for.
If you don't have the L/R mix bus switches engaged on each of the 16 channels you want on the 17/18 mix bus you won't hear anything on that pair because they're not selected.
So...it really is that simple and plenty of people everywhere have it working just fine with Ableton, PT, Cubase etc. Granted it is pretty confusing to a new user because it does have so many routing options and features and all those knobs can be sort of overwhelming. Maybe reading a good mixing book would help.
Each ZED channel is identical so if you understand one channel strip you'll get them all.
Then tackle the monitor/mix section.
I've helped three different friends with the ZEDR16 so far and everyone of them struggled with the very same things you are.
I think you just have something either configured wrong in Ableton or your not punching in the right buttons on the ZED.
Keep at it....you'll get there.....a light will come on and you will have a moment...Ahhhh!
I hope this helps!
Hello. I'm now using pro tools and just about everything figured
Hello. I'm now using pro tools and just about everything figured out and have recorded quite a few songs with the band. BUT I still cant record the mains (17/18). Ive tried everything. And i know i have the track routing correct because when i make adjustments on the mixer (ie EQ) i can hear it through the monitors. I know everything is routed to the mains because i can adjust the level coming out of my monitors by adjusting the red faders (and the LR button for each channel is engaged). But when i create a stereo track in pro tools and route the mains in, that track doesnt recognize or doesnt "hear" anything coming in, no signal. The console is switched to 44.1 and the session in pro tools is set at 44.1 @ 24 bits.
Could the bit rate be the reason the mains arent being returned to the DAW?
Any ideas?
Do you have "17/18" inputs showing up in your PT setup and is it
Do you have "17/18" inputs showing up in your PT setup and is it assigned to that track and armed to record properly?
When you start playback of all the other tracks do you see any meter movement on the 17/18 track.
Sounds like you have something not routing or setup for CH 17/18 to and from the ZED rather than any bit rate thing.
But double check the little switch in the back...
djmukilteo, post: 376345 wrote: Do you have "17/18" inputs showi
djmukilteo, post: 376345 wrote: Do you have "17/18" inputs showing up in your PT setup and is it assigned to that track and armed to record properly?
When you start playback of all the other tracks do you see any meter movement on the 17/18 track.
Sounds like you have something not routing or setup for CH 17/18 to and from the ZED rather than any bit rate thing.
But double check the little switch in the back...
Yeah, its gotta be pro tools. The console is all setup right. And yes, i create a stereo track in my session, route the mains to that track, arm the track, hit record and play in the transport window, and all that stereo track records is a couple flat lines, its not receiving the signal from the zed. I know all my tracks are routed to the mains because i can hear the session playing through my monitors and when i make adjustments like EQ i can hear the difference.
hi there, i had just bought PT9, have been using the Zedr16 with
hi there, i had just bought PT9, have been using the Zedr16 with Logic 8 and no issues but now having the same problem with PT9 where I cant seem to get the master channels 17/18 on the zed to be recognized by PT9, have tried all the same solutions and have the same outcome, has anyone sorted this one out, can help me out?
andyrock1, post: 378907 wrote: hi there, i had just bought PT9,
andyrock1, post: 378907 wrote: hi there, i had just bought PT9, have been using the Zedr16 with Logic 8 and no issues but now having the same problem with PT9 where I cant seem to get the master channels 17/18 on the zed to be recognized by PT9, have tried all the same solutions and have the same outcome, has anyone sorted this one out, can help me out?
Without knowing some details about your entire setup and your peripherals it hard to say other than people have gotten those to work together on both the ZEDR16 and the bigger unit the GSR24.
Usually it's something simple that's been missed. Seeing as though everything works fine with Logic and you changed to PT9, I would look through PT9 and make sure everything is correct with that first.
andyrock1, post: 378920 wrote: hey, yeah, I think I have sorted
andyrock1, post: 378920 wrote: hey, yeah, I think I have sorted it out! thanks, I found that the master track I created had to be actually recording before it would show anything on the meters, where as in logic it just had to be "record enabled"
Cool...glad you sorted it out!
Now on to making some fab tunes!
Just an update from me. Sent my console in to A&H and they repla
Just an update from me. Sent my console in to A&H and they replaced it. Just got the new console this weekend and it works fine. Turns out we were all on a wild goose chase. The console was faulty. I just did my first successful analog mix-down. Thanks everyone for all the trouble shooting advice. Especially DJMUKILTEO.
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Hi Guys, a little of topic but I couldn't find a dedicated R16 thread. If anyone is interested in wooden side panels for the R16 we're having a 15% off sale over at [[url=http://[/URL]="http://mixingtable…"]Allen & Heath Zed R16 wooden side cheeks[/]="http://mixingtable…"]Allen & Heath Zed R16 wooden side cheeks[/] until 15 march. Cheers, Pete thumb
This is great and exactly what I am trying to do. I'm using Abl
This is great and exactly what I am trying to do. I'm using Ableton 9 (screenshot attached).
As I hope you can see, I've set the template up so that I can export a track from Ableton, run it through the Zed, EQ it and stuff, then I want to route all 16 channels back into Ableton via tracks 17/18, and record them in Ableton as my "final mix."
I have the first 16 tracks set up so that I can hear the EQing on the board. That is, If I drop an audio clip into one of the tracks, I am able to tweak the sound on the Zed.
What I am completely failing at, however, is capturing the post-EQ sound in Ableton. When I record the "Print Track" file, I get no audio. I've set the Input to 17/18 as djmukilteo suggested, but get no input when recording. Any ideas what I am doing wrong? I've tried multiple variations of button setting, finally just stabbing aimlessly at buttons hoping that I would get some input on my "Print Track" file.
My Zed settings are: the first two buttons are selected - DIG SND (Post EQ) and DIG RTN (Pre Ins).
Any help would be much, much appreciated. I must be doing something that is easily fixed. Argh.
douglas
djmukilteo, post: 371652 wrote: Exactly, in fact you can do that for any group of channels or just a couple of channels of the ZED.
Say you want 8 or 10 channels of drum mics as a mixdown. You can EQ, add effects like reverb either ITB or OTB with hardware etc mix those down to 17/18 the way you like it and "bounce" those down to your DAW.
Do the same thing for a group of guitars or vocals etc etc.....the possibilities are endless.
After you have these "stems" done, send them back to the ZED on any mono or stereo channels you like and do it all over again until you have everything in place and blended just the way you like. You can do that as many times as you like.
That is one of the great things about the ZED and using your DAW together as a hybrid system ITB/OTB.
The ZED lets you add analog warmth and richness to a source and the DAW acts like a big giant multi-track tape deck.
The flexibility and creativity of the ZED and your DAW gives you unlimited options.....
Attached files 
ltjbukum, post: 402612 wrote: This is great and exactly what I a
ltjbukum, post: 402612 wrote: This is great and exactly what I am trying to do. I'm using Ableton 9 (screenshot attached).
As I hope you can see, I've set the template up so that I can export a track from Ableton, run it through the Zed, EQ it and stuff, then I want to route all 16 channels back into Ableton via tracks 17/18, and record them in Ableton as my "final mix."
I have the first 16 tracks set up so that I can hear the EQing on the board. That is, If I drop an audio clip into one of the tracks, I am able to tweak the sound on the Zed.
What I am completely failing at, however, is capturing the post-EQ sound in Ableton. When I record the "Print Track" file, I get no audio. I've set the Input to 17/18 as djmukilteo suggested, but get no input when recording. Any ideas what I am doing wrong? I've tried multiple variations of button setting, finally just stabbing aimlessly at buttons hoping that I would get some input on my "Print Track" file.
My Zed settings are: the first two buttons are selected - DIG SND (Post EQ) and DIG RTN (Pre Ins).
Any help would be much, much appreciated. I must be doing something that is easily fixed. Argh.
douglas
Not sure I can help or make sense of what you're trying to do and I'm not familiar with Ableton, but if you read through the ZED block diagram & manual you should see that you need to route all your recorded Ableton tracks through each ZED channels and have the L/R switch engaged on each which puts them onto the mix bus at the main master analog bus L/R.
Then you should setup a new pair of tracks (stereo) in Ableton to record the main master bus using 17/18 as input. You really don't need to assign an output for that because you can monitor on the ZED headphones. The DIG master pushbutton should be off or out.
Do a playback of your tracks in Ableton and do your mix setting levels using the red faders making sure everything is the way you want it.
Hit record on that 17/18 master track and record the mix.
Be careful when using monitors and use headphones so you don't get a feedback loop.
On the channel fader switches I think you only want the DIG RTN Pre Insert and not DIG SND as that will put the track after the EQ. Check the manual and block diagram.
It sounds like you already tracked with the EQ so not sure if you want to EQ again??
Hope that helps
Got it. Thank you very much. My problem was the red faders. T
Got it. Thank you very much. My problem was the red faders. They were down. I dialed them down, as I use the control room plugs to control volume. I did not realize the signal was routed through the main red faders. I am embarrassed it was such a stupid mistake, but your email mentioned the red faders, and that's what the problem was. Thanks again, djmukilteo.
djmukilteo, post: 402614 wrote: Not sure I can help or make sense of what you're trying to do and I'm not familiar with Ableton, but if you read through the ZED block diagram & manual you should see that you need to route all your recorded Ableton tracks through each ZED channels and have the L/R switch engaged on each which puts them onto the mix bus at the main master analog bus L/R.
Then you should setup a new pair of tracks (stereo) in Ableton to record the main master bus using 17/18 as input. You really don't need to assign an output for that because you can monitor on the ZED headphones. The DIG master pushbutton should be off or out.
Do a playback of your tracks in Ableton and do your mix setting levels using the red faders making sure everything is the way you want it.
Hit record on that 17/18 master track and record the mix.
Be careful when using monitors and use headphones so you don't get a feedback loop.
On the channel fader switches I think you only want the DIG RTN Pre Insert and not DIG SND as that will put the track after the EQ. Check the manual and block diagram.
It sounds like you already tracked with the EQ so not sure if you want to EQ again??Hope that helps
Help Me, Please. I'm going a little nuts Hi, I know this is an
Help Me, Please. I'm going a little nuts
Hi, I know this is an old thread, but I'm having some of the same issues. I am working in Logic Pro 9.1.8 with a ZED R16 (Allen & Heath). I have gotten everything up and running FROM my DAW, however, I cannot get any signal to register coming back in. I have tried everything that I know to do. I have set the ITB channel to 17/18, enabled dig send etc. Anyone with any experience who may be able to tell me what is going on would be greatly appreciated. I'm beginning to wonder if something is wrong with the dig output on my desk. Thanks in advance!
pwaters, post: 408292 wrote: Hi, I know this is an old thread, b
pwaters, post: 408292 wrote: Hi, I know this is an old thread, but I'm having some of the same issues. I am working in Logic Pro 9.1.8 with a ZED R16 (Allen & Heath). I have gotten everything up and running FROM my DAW, however, I cannot get any signal to register coming back in. I have tried everything that I know to do. I have set the ITB channel to 17/18, enabled dig send etc. Anyone with any experience who may be able to tell me what is going on would be greatly appreciated. I'm beginning to wonder if something is wrong with the dig output on my desk. Thanks in advance!
Do you have 16 mono tracks set up and assigned in your input and output channel settings in Logic?
You should also have a stereo bus created for 17/18 Main Master as well.
There are a total of 18 channels in and out of the ZED. Your DAW has to have those setup in Logic.
The only time you will use the master 17/18 channels is to bounce a stereo mixdown back into your DAW or to play back that stereo to the ZED.
When you create a Logic track you have to assign the input to 1-16 and the output to 1-16 and then press the DIG RET Post EQ button (Red LED 2nd from bottom). You can assign any channel as input for tracking and any output for mixing.
djmukilteo, post: 408294 wrote: Do you have 16 mono tracks set u
djmukilteo, post: 408294 wrote: Do you have 16 mono tracks set up and assigned in your input and output channel settings in Logic?
You should also have a stereo bus created for 17/18 Main Master as well.
There are a total of 18 channels in and out of the ZED. Your DAW has to have those setup in Logic.
The only time you will use the master 17/18 channels is to bounce a stereo mixdown back into your DAW or to play back that stereo to the ZED.
When you create a Logic track you have to assign the input to 1-16 and the output to 1-16 and then press the DIG RET Post EQ button (Red LED 2nd from bottom). You can assign any channel as input for tracking and any output for mixing.
I Do. Everything is metering and mixing correctly through the desk. I have a stereo channel set up in Logic with input 17/18 assigned. I also have 17/18 assigned as the outputs in I/O assignments (Preferences>Audio>I/O Assignments). I'm using the desk's EQ so DIG RET Pre-INS is depressed on the desk (Yellow Light Third from bottom on every channel being processed). I also have DIG MASTER TO L-R engaged, although I get a green light there. I'm running monitors through CRM 1 & 2, and a grot box on ALT Channel, all of this works great! I just can't seem to get Logic to "see" the returning signal from the ZED. You mention a Bus, should I have something set up for that as well? I've also tried the templates on the A&H site, and have the same problem, plus they seem to be missing the audio info at download, so I have to drag audio files into the track window or record in the templates to test, but still the same result. I've tried tweaking the settings in system AUDIO MIDI settings (Which I find cryptic at best), but no luck there either. It just seems like Logic can't "hear" 17/18. Thanks for your quick reply btw. I'm sure there's something I'm missing but it's driving me mad… any other advice will be greatly appreciated!
When you say "see" in Logic what does that mean exactly? You can
When you say "see" in Logic what does that mean exactly? You can't create a stereo track in Logic and assign 17/18 "IN" to it?
Are you trying to "record" the 2 track master mix (17/18) back into Logic while playing your 16 channels?
Is it possible you have old firmware?
One other thing is that DIG Master to L/R button. That is an inp
One other thing is that DIG Master to L/R button. That is an input routing from your DAW back into the main master mix. You would press that in when you want to "listen" to 17/18 not record 17/18 back into your DAW.
It should typically be off unless you already have a master 17/18 track already recorded in your DAW and you want to mix that back into the master L/R mix or listen to it.
For example let's say you have a stereo track already recorded in Logic, you could assign it's output in Logic to 17/18 and pressing that DIG Master to L/R will route that into the master L/R mix.
Whenever you set up a new stereo channel in your DAW to record the full mix (Master L/R) you need to be careful of feedback, so make sure your monitors are off and you monitor using headphones. If you don't the thing will squeal like a banshee!
I can set the input of the new channel to 17/18, but when I arm
I can set the input of the new channel to 17/18, but when I arm and record on the track with 17/18 input I don't get anything. There is also no indication of input on the channel meter. I tried with and without dig send engaged with the same results. I have the output of the channel set to "no output" to avoid a loop.
pwaters, post: 408300 wrote: I can set the input of the new chan
pwaters, post: 408300 wrote: I can set the input of the new channel to 17/18, but when I arm and record on the track with 17/18 input I don't get anything. There is also no indication of input on the channel meter. I tried with and without dig send engaged with the same results. I have the output of the channel set to "no output" to avoid a loop.
Well that does seems odd? Do you have signal showing on the ZED's main L/R meters?
DIG Master to L/R should not be pressed in.
pwaters, post: 408303 wrote: I do have signal. The analog side i
pwaters, post: 408303 wrote: I do have signal. The analog side is working perfectly as far as I can tell. Eq is great!
The only thing I can come up with then would be your FW cable or port or something in Logic not set correctly.
If those are all good then maybe you do have a bad codec chip in the ZED!
The master channels 17/18 are a separate 2 channel codec chip. Did you say you can "listen" to a 17/18 track played back through the ZED?
If that works OK and it just won't show up in Logic than I would think the codec chip is OK and there's something going on in Logic.
Is this a Mac or PC system?
I'm doing this, only a different product to analog sum. See thi
I'm doing this, only a different product to analog sum.
See this video explaining the process. A few members have your console that will be able to fine tune your question but check this out because it really explains OTB mixing and why some of us are doing this.
See this diagram and just replace the MixDream with the ZED R16 on how it works:
http://spl.info/fileadmin/user_upload/produkte/mixdream/mixdream_2384_integration.pdf