Well, you all know I have been vocal about that company for years now. They are such a rip off http://recording.org/blogs/audiokid/34-pro-tools-rip-off.html and so over priced. They will most likely have something new that will keep them all coming back for more. "trade in now and save" . As AG said a few months back , "their best years are behind them now". Can't wait to hear what's next. Hopefully they finally release the software and get out of the hardware business all together.

Thanks for sharing.

Its been indexed here:

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://webcache.goo…"]Ban Sweewater for Firing Brad Lyons - Page 9 - Avid Audio Forums[/]="http://webcache.goo…"]Ban Sweewater for Firing Brad Lyons - Page 9 - Avid Audio Forums[/]

and here: sweetwater fires Brad Lyons - Google Search

Someone at Gearslutz posted it and Jules, or someone in charge there closed it too. How Lame is that and what does that tell you about its real for reason for existence. If I did that when he was a moderator here, I would have been hung for removing free speech and been called a shill . we're seeing a hypocrite... at its worse. Good too see it in living color today. Glad I don't need money that bad that I can be bought and change the morals when a button is pressed against me. . Whom ever broke policy, shouldn't have but removing all this "free speech is telling us all who is being controlled by corporate BS.

Here is the quote from google cache

Sweetwater fires Brad Lyons. The guy posts at the DUC, all he says basically is look for something exciting next week on the HD forum. Next day, he is out of a job. The guy has been an advocate for years, sure he may have made a mistake, but come on. Avid had to of forced this issue, but Sweetwater played right along. They could have given the guy a Suspension, whatever, but to loose his job. Avid and Sweetwater, stop playing God.

Vintage King or someone else, give Brad a job, let Sweetwater know what they did to loose business.

Brad, let us know where you land. I will buy from you only from here on out, just for principle.

Is that what you saw?

I didn't read the initial post from Brad, but I've read most of the threads at DUC, and read the thread over at GS before it was censored, and Brad WAS my sales rep at SW.

I won't speculate what the entire situation was concerning his dismissal.

Nor will I attempt to speculate on much of the situation in regards to what Avid is releasing.

But, to even suggest that Avid is releasing something that will make HD systems obsolete is probably incorrect. They want to remain "the top dawg" and "industry standard".

Avid has been the major player in the video community and IMHO, is what drove them into becoming the "defacto standard" for pro audio. Failure to acknowledge that fact is to ignore reality. Video is a multi-BILLION dollar industry... the pro audio industry as a whole is only a fraction of that market, and in general business terms is really just an add-on segment that the video market is required to support.

That being said, Avid seems to be driving to two ends, and leaving a hole in the middle, by NOT addressing the central market... e.g. The mid-level professional studio.

Avid has geared up it's marketing to the project/home prosumer market, like a moth to a light. They're still strong in the pro-video market as Avid.

With the acquisition of Euphonics, they finally have folks on staff/in the fold, that actually know something about good sounding analog circuitry.

My guess is that with Logic (et al) giving them a pounding in the now emerging market of the mid-market studios, they're (possibly) going to be releasing a product path that will hopefully curb the hemorrhaging in that arena.

Whether it's a software, hardware or some hybrid solution, we'll just have to wait until Monday to find out.

I'm not lifting Avid/Digi to some lofty position. Nor am I defending them. I've certainly got my own axe to grind with them as an owner who spent 6 figures of cash on their product, and don't feel like they give a rats a$$ about me.

(and yes, I knew full well what I was walking into... which is why I have no problem calling them and getting as brutal with the poor sod on the other end of the phone as I am forced to.)

I will point out, that the same can pretty much be said for most of the other major players with product offerings in the mid-level arena. If I call Apple about a Logic problem, I gotta pay STOOPID money for a support contract. If I purchased a 1608 and had a problem, do you REALLY think API is going to give me the same priority as John McBride? (Granted, it's gonna be better than what you'll get out of Avid OR Apple.)

It ALL comes down to how much money you've spent with the manufacturer. (UNFORTUNATELY)

I can guarantee you that when a studio operation in Culver City that has 16 editing suites and 5 sound stages calls Avid, they get better treatment than I do...

All you gotta do is follow the money.

But this has NEVER been a poor man's game. If you want to compete at a professional level, you have to invest in the tools it takes to compete.

IF, Avid actually brings to market a competitive product that incorporates some of the good stuff that Euphonics brings to the table, then their product line might actually be worth investing in, to stay competitive. But for the most part, I have no use to look at the prosumer market as worth investing in as a mid-level studio operation. It DOES however, behoove me to be able to accept and exchange files with as little incompatibility as possible.

I have to say that the fools posting in those deleted threads are spewing so much legal misinformation that it defies belief. Sweetwater can no more allow an employee to disclose Avid's secrets than your bank can allow an employee to give out your social security and credit card numbers on the street corner. And audiokid, before you get up on your free speech horse you'd better be sure that you are not hosting an illegal disclosure of information. FWIW, I don't think you are doing that now. None of us is legally obligated to keep Avid's secrets. But I would not publish info like this posted by someone who was legally obligated to keep it secret.

P.S. Don't forget how Apple put the screws to Gizmodo for publishing legally obtained secrets they were under o obligation to keep.

audiokid, post: 352502 wrote:
Someone at Gearslutz posted it and Jules, or someone in charge there closed it too. How Lame is that and what does that tell you about its real for reason for existence. If I did that when he was a moderator here, I would have been hung for removing free speech and been called a shill . we're seeing a hypocrite... at its worse. Good too see it in living color today. Glad I don't need money that bad that I can be bought and change the morals when a button is pressed against me. . Whom ever broke policy, shouldn't have but removing all this "free speech is telling us all who is being controlled by corporate BS.

Here is the quote from google cache

Is that what you saw?

Yeah that's it essentially. 21 pages of it at the DUC.

Get rid of that segmented audio, PLEASE

I would think that if Avid has anything new to release it will be a new single bit DSD ProTools system. The DSD is the only digital that even comes close to the actual analog quality of sound. Especially given its 100 kHz capable bandwidth. I loathe PCM if not for its convenience. But PCM is like fluorescent lighting fixtures to me. I can't stand the segmented lighting no more can I really enjoy the segmented audio. Yeah, it's been convenient. It's opened up new doors. But like children's toys, it's still a flawed piece of technology. The only technology available back in the late 1970s. Heck, the 3M 32 track digital machine was thought to be the best sounding digital machine of all. And that's pretty funny considering they didn't have 16 bit converters invented at the time. Just 12 bit & four bit, which were cascaded together to create 16-bit. It was near 50 kHz sampling rate that actually improved its resolution over anything else at the time. So hopefully, their new Pro tools system will be DSD? That's probably the rub?

And while so many people argue with me that they can hear the difference between 16-bit & 24-bit and 44.1 kHz to 48 kHz to 88.2 kHz to 96 kHz and up to 192 kHz, I agree! The only problem with all of those is that there are standards still in place that negate those improvements. Sure, those improvements may well be considered important when we get reasonably priced DSD equipment. But really, what's the point? It's still crappy segmented audio. And I have always felt and heard that PCM is PCM is PCM and always will be PCM. There are pros and cons to everything. I still miss the silky smooth & adjustable sound from analog tape. With or without Dolby SR. From the earliest digital days people & programmers have been trying to emulate analog tape. Maybe now they have managed to figure out the proper algorithms to do exactly that? One can only hope. And if that is so? Will we be able to slam meters again for that oh so luscious & limited dense quality we hold analog tape in such high esteem for? Now I'm getting excited! This could be it. This could be the next great & standardized format that may carry us through for another 50 years? And that my friends would make all of us old-timers feel young again.

Oh to be young again since RAD is nearly 55
Mx. Remy and David

Whatever it is, whether it be a new product or new services, the thread at the DUC is closed. I was a bit worried when this forum wasn't loading for about an hour earlier on. I hope this thread hasn't put this site in bad light.

BobRogers, post: 352507 wrote: I have to say that the fools posting in those deleted threads are spewing so much legal misinformation that it defies belief. Sweetwater can no more allow an employee to disclose Avid's secrets than your bank can allow an employee to give out your social security and credit card numbers on the street corner. And audiokid, before you get up on your free speech horse you'd better be sure that you are not hosting an illegal disclosure of information. FWIW, I don't think you are doing that now. None of us is legally obligated to keep Avid's secrets. But I would not publish info like this posted by someone who was legally obligated to keep it secret.

P.S. Don't forget how Apple put the screws to Gizmodo for publishing legally obtained secrets they were under o obligation to keep.

OMG Bob, you've got to be kidding. Who cares at this point, its done and this is the web. Like I'm going to remove my comments now or fear GS or Avid is going to spank me for posting my one mans opinions here. Bring it on then and make my week I say. I'm only confirming what Digi does over and over and how GS so quickly removed a topic, debate over something that was posted that was pretty interesting. The owner of that site wouldn't remove lies that were directed at RO back in 2002 because it served him well. Maybe removing that thread served him well again because of personal gain. I don't know but its is interesting just the same.

What ever Brad said is his burden to bear now. Right or wrong isn't our concern or for any of us! to make judgment. This thread is about other threads being posted about a company that removed something and another site that removed people's discussions about the topic in dispute that is already googled all over the internet..

It all stinks to me. And its all just news and conformation about a company I feel is way over priced and hyped. I bought into this company long before most of the population alive today new anything about digital recording, that I'm positive of. What ever Brad posted online is now cached from google globally. Its already out there bud and its just pro audio news here. I'm not going to be threatened to remove this topic. Do you think I should remove it?

I bet if this was another company it would get less attention. I don't know what he mentioned, and maybe he shouldn't have. I don't care. Just calling a spade a spade and confirming my personal opinions about a company I don't care for either.

Cheers!

No worries Hueseph. I don't owe anyone any favours and I'm not into payola or controlled by anyone pulling strings above me. I sadly had a nice reply that was lost because the site locked up. Could be support is cleaning out the spam we were attacked with last week.

Were are far from ever being effected from something like this. We are growing, independent and healthy here. The cream is rising.

Absolutely serious audiokid. I agree that you are doing nothing wrong here and that GS was doing nothing wrong. No need for you to change anything at all. But there are a lot of serious lawyers including law professors who said that Gizmodo was doing nothing wrong and Apple was able to break them like a twig. I hope that no one ever comes after you, but if you follow the news you know how often this has been happening. If you have deep enough pockets to laugh off a couple of five figure legal bills then I'm talking though my hat and you can stand by your principles all you want and sneer at those who back down.

I don't get it though, what are you insinuating I am doing Bob? Lawyers coming after me now for posting a google link; posting an excerpt of a thread; writing a blog, based on experience about how I personally feel Pro Tools is a rip-off and that there are less expensive DAW's that can serve you better long term, or, wondering why gearslutz removed a controversial thread very specific to the pro audio business and specifically, tools we use? This is so ridicules to be at all concerned or threatened over. I hope Brad comes here and tests out our site. I won't remove anything and I certainly won't be deleting this thread. I may remove a post if someone side rails it or spams us though... I suppose I would if a Judge made me.

That being said, no one needs to share, respect or believe mine or anyone's opinions here. I'm just another musician here with a user number and a voice. I may run this site, but that shouldn't be reason for me to be silent of my opinions unless I am afraid I will loose advertising or something, and that ain't going to happen as long as I run this place. I make enough money outside of RO that I don't worry about who advertises here and I would drop anyone in a heart beat that told me I had to do something or they would stop advertising with us. Money does not make me do things that cause heart burn..
I also totally believe in free speech, absolutely! What we do sensor here is foul language, inappropriate members that are trouble makers and spam. And, we usually all talk about those ones in question as a group. Something here really stinks. I can't believe gearslutz reacted so fast with a panic button. Its just way to close for comfort to me. Their best years are behind them as well.

Over and out. Cheers!

This is the closest thing to a fact that I can find about what was said. Ambiguous as it is, I don't see how it could be harmful in any way.

Brad just said to pay attention next week there would be cool news for hd owners.

What's the harm in that? Stir the pot. Get the pocket change burning. Let the hype build. Of course, it might not be so great if this all just leads to a big disappointment.

audiokid: I don't think BobRogers meant anything by what he said. He's just looking out for your that's all. No need to read anything into it. No one wants you or this site to have to go through any legal ordeal unnecessarily.

hueseph and Bob, I know there's no harm intended towards me here. However, I'm just trying to get my head around the threat of lawyers and suggesting I'm on a high horse in respect to this specific thread.. That sounded a bit harsh to me and calls for standing up to my convictions at best in front of a crowd.
I then am enjoying pointing some fingers at a few others in questions over all this. Which is definitely in question to me. Its all fun and current news for our community. I look forward to what happens next.

I'm not insinuating that you are doing anything wrong. I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I just think you are being a little naive about how easy it would be to make you take down a thread like this - which I absolutely agree that you have every right to keep up. Here's how it could go. (1) You get a "cease and desist" letter from someone. (2) You walk into your lawyers office and show her the letter. (3) She tells you that you are absolutely in the right and the law is on your side. (4) She tells you to leave your $10,000 retainer with the secretary. (5) We all have to look for a new place to discuss recording.

If you are just having a good time giving GS a poke for caving on this issue (which they may have done without provocation) that's fine. But if it really comes down to a choice between your hard earned bucks going to a lawyer and taking down a Google link.....

The basic fact on Avid's side is that they had secret information and someone who was legally obligate to keep that secret revealed it. No idea if this was a contractual arrangement or a handshake agreement, but it's pretty clear that Sweetwater felt they were obligated. hueseph - it doesn't matter if we think the information was important or not. Corporations go to great lengths to keep new product info and release dates secret and they are entitled to use legal means to do so. The information belongs to Avid and they trusted Sweetwater to keep it confidential the way you trust your doctor to keep your medical history confidential, your lawyer to keep you legal problems confidential, your accountant to keep your financial info confidential and your math professor to keep your grade history confidential.

P.S. hueseph - I hope that Brad is making your argument to both Sweetwater and Avid right now and that he gets his job back. I'm sure he intended no harm and was in fact hoping to boost sales at Sweetwater and Avid. But Avid is not obligated to let a Sweetwater salesman determine their corporate rollout strategy.

I don't know about you Americans but here in Canada we are allowed to speak without paying lawyers lol.
Sounds like some marketing drama. It's hard to believe that a corporation would leak critical confidential information to a sales guy in the first place. How did the sales guy even get this information, maybe sleeping with the boss... too funny.

Lets get back to reality.

Aaah the oxymoron of business ethics.

I for one, would be much more likely to do business with a salesman who (despite confidentiality / non-disclosure agreements) gave me a hint that I could get more for my money next week. The net-result would be good for his business and the manufacturer in the long run. Unfortunately that kind of exchange (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) is best done one-on-one in a brick and mortar store. It was poor judgement for this salesman to put anything in print to the masses. The interweb is no place for secrets, or subtle communication of any kind.

I'd bet the buzz around this whole incident will cost Digi a few customers and gain them some others simply because people are talking about it. And let's face it "cool news for hd owners", is more intriguing than slanderous. Digi's only issue would be, as the professor points out, it fouls up their (very analytical I'm sure) timeline. [ make sure v2 is flawless, taper off production of v1, ramp up production of v2, reduce pricing of v1, get v2 shipped, blowout remaining inventory of v1 - oh and v3, v4, & v5 are all in development during all of this]

I'm sure there's a reason this is best left to giant faceless, soulless corporations. The never ending by-product of any tech business is outdated hardware/software. In turn that creates a revolving door of disgruntled customers. These once loyal customers are understandably going feel let's say 'neglected', if they got burned on the cusp of a new release. The allure of the next big thing is the only thing that can keep the machine moving. I don't envy anyone developing cutting edge technology. The business model and the business ethics of it would be an absolute biyatch.

All for [[url=http://[/URL]="http://blog.mixonli…"]this.[/]="http://blog.mixonli…"]this.[/]

Quote: "Avid has released three new Pro Tools interfaces, two of which offer a built-in soft-knee analog limiter."

Dear God, prohibit my envy. Wait, why would I envy that - my consumer camcorder has a limiter. Heck, analog tape will do that. This isn't new.

The only other addition I see is upgraded IO options.

This is why I love this forum and this comminity...The Owner and mods are not corperate lapdogs and the true members give honest and valuable opinions. There's so much BS out there, but Chris I have so much respect for you and how you run your site.

T H A N K Y O U !!

Oh yeah and the Avid thing...meh.

How utterly disappointing. Not even an update to their existing HD cards. Processors continue to get faster and they are still relying on chips that were fast ten years ago. No bones to throw out. Just a feeble attempt to catch up to the competition's converter offerings. Why did I even get my hopes up? I should have realized I already have it as good as it's going to get with ALTERNATE software/hardware. I'd rather spend $12000 on better preamps and a good interface than that garbage.

seems like a big nothing...

Codemonkey, post: 352604 wrote: Quote: "Avid has released three new Pro Tools interfaces, two of which offer a built-in soft-knee analog limiter."

Dear God, prohibit my envy. Wait, why would I envy that - my consumer camcorder has a limiter. Heck, analog tape will do that. This isn't new.

The only other addition I see is upgraded IO options.

So this is it? This is the reason for firing BL? Maybe there's more to the story.

There are "improvements to digital audio conversion quality."

If the converters are stellar this could be a welcome but not life-changing improvement; I have a Mytek stereo ADC that makes me happy, and a lot of guys I know aren't unhappy with the current conversion quality, or have their own box(es) that take it up a notch.

okay then.

It appears we like OMNI and HEAT, collectively. Despite the usual corporate shenanigans and an embarrassingly inappropriate plug for HEAT on avid's HD front page, perhaps it wasn't all bad.