This sounds like a feedback loop in the DAW routing. Make sure the output of the DAW isn't somehow feeding the inputs.

Unheard, post: 362906 wrote: ...I THINK it has to do with the fact there's already a AC plug running to the Motif, and with the 6-pin FW plug (which also delivers some electricity) they kinda crash into eachother somehow...

Is the whistle a continuous pure tone or does it change in character or intensity as you perform different actions in the computer?

Does the Motif run when just powered through the FireWire cable? If so, do you get the whistle when configured like this?

TheJackAttack: This sound is also around without any programs started up, though, i did try to change the sample rate, the whistle does change, but doesn't go away.

Bosswell: It does kind of change, also - What i noticed is that it reacts to my Harddrive, when something loads up - The whistle also stops.
The Motif isn't able to run without the main AC Adapter

Thanks!

does it change in character or intensity as you perform different actions in the computer?
In fact, yes.

Unless you can do some swapping around, this is going to be tricky to diagnose, and there is not necessarily a complete solution.

You should try to borrow another FireWire-equippped computer and plug your Motif into that. See if the whistle is still there, of the same intensity and comes and goes with disk activity similar to the way in which your own PC behaves. It could well be that you get a different noise with another computer, maybe less, maybe worse than with your own.

There are ways of isolating FireWire connections to reduce this type of effect, but none of them are particularly cheap. It may in the end come down to accepting that there are some combinations of gear at this level that give background problems, and spending money to re-engineer the setup is the only way to work round them.

Sorry not to sound more positive, but one reason that pro studio gear costs what is does is that it is designed and built so you can (usually) plug one piece into another without encountering this type of problem.

Hello Boswell,

Thanks for responding! ;

If the Whistle responds to my HDD, could that mean it's a grounding problem? Because i already tried a cable with different isolating, but that didn't change anything...

Maybe a DI box ...?

Not sure what to do.

I don't think it's a grounding problem as such. It may be a power noise problem, in that it might improve if you were to use a 6-pin to 4-pin FireWire cable and go through a 4-pin FireWire adaptor at the computer end so that no computer d.c. power went down the cable.

A DI box is not going to help.

In my previous post I suggested trying a different computer.

Alright.

Getting another PC here with Firewire gonna be a challenge but i will try.

Also, i think 6 pin to 4 pin is a very good suggestion, but my Computer doesn't have a 4 pin slot .... hmm

Plug your computer/screen and all your hardware into the same outlet on a power bar or power conditioner. Unplug your printer and any firewire external drives or other devices. I had the same problem with a Firebox and could hear the mouse movement on the screen as well as my HD through the speakers. I put EVERYTHING onto the same outlet and it went away. It's probably a ground loop. If you are able to run a dedicated plug from your panel do it.

That's why I mentioned a 4-pin adaptor. You can get these for digital cameras and the like that come with a 4-pin cable and people need to plug them into 6-pin FW sockets.

Even another desktop PC you could transfer your PCI FireWire card to would give some information, but I think the 4-pin FW trial is liable to be more rewarding.

Don't be discouraged. These are often the sort of problems that you have to nibble away at over a period of time as and when you get the opportunity and the chance of exchange equipment. In your case the whistle may be annoying during monitoring and mixing but at least it should not be captured in your recordings.

Thanks for the replies :)

I found a 6 to 4 pin converter, and i found a FW PCI card WITH a 4 pin slot.

Unfortunatly ... doesn't work. As soon as i plugged it in the very high peep came in again .....

Gonna try to plug everything into the same box now!

And yeah ... and really cant work with this annoying peep.... gets on my nerves after 20 minutes :(

So i contacted Yamaha....

He's asking me if my power supply gives enough Volts, and concludes something is ****ing it up in the setup.

Also, he keeps on HINTING me on getting a Texas Instruments Chipset. Because this is the most compatible with the Motif.

The hell does he want me to do, buy a new Motherboard???

This is really frustrating.

Nomt another motherboard, a new firewird card. For a desktop you would get PCIe card. For a laptop an Express Card wit a TI chipset.

Yeah, i figured that out when i started looking ... hehe, Thanks :cool:

I guess it would be worth it to give a PCI-E Firewire TI card a shot ......

But please, keep the suggestions coming. hehe

Try SiiG. It's been an excellent card for me. Mine is a 4-port and I don't see one on their site anymore, but here's a link...

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.siig.com…"]SiiG Firewire 400 PCIe cards[/]="http://www.siig.com…"]SiiG Firewire 400 PCIe cards[/]

I'd be surprised if that fixes your problem, but possible. Regardless you'll be happy with the card.
Lame to spend money on a potential fix if it doesn't cure the disease.

Yeah i agree.

Thanks for the link, looks like a excellent card!

I'll put it on for my favorites, and ill wait until i get a new Yamaha Answer.

Because i would find it kinda strange if this would fix the problem. Because the slot of my Motherboard gave the exact same beep as when i put it into the Firewire PCI card. The signal didn't become less or more.

It WAS a cheap Firewire card... but still.

Not all firewire chips conform to the IEEE 1394 standard despite being labeled firewire. Cheap chips have been an issue with audio video editing since the start of firewire. Your mobo onboard chip is not likely TI either but most motherboard manu list what it is somewhere. In the past several years not all SiiG cards have TI chips either so just double check at the SiiG website first.

Unheard, post: 362906 wrote:
Here's some things i tried to fix this problem:
-Got a better isolating Firewire cable - Didn't work.

I've had this problem. Having a RME FireFace 400 I found out that it was super-finicky about what type of Firewire cable will work with it. I'd suggest the clear "braided" Firewire cable (which was supplied with the unit). Any other Firewire cable had the high-piched whine.

Wew, really FidelityHigh?

You able to look up the type nr./model of this cable? Never really heard of the word "Braided".

Thanks!!

Something like this?:

Features:
- HotPluggable.
- Twisted pair construction for extreme velocity data transfer rates.
- Molded strain relief and PVC overmolding to ensure a lifetime of error-free data transmissions.
- Outer shield and inner shield (foil and braid) ensures compliance with the latest IEEE 1394 standards, which reduces radio frequency and electro-magnetic interference.

Unheard, post: 363447 wrote: Wew, really FidelityHigh?

You able to look up the type nr./model of this cable? Never really heard of the word "Braided".

Thanks!!

Here's a link that shows what a braided cable looks like:

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.monopric…"]For only $1.48 each when QTY 50+ purchased - IEEE-1394 FireWire iLink DV Cable 6P-4P M/M - 6ft (CLEAR) | 4 - 6 pin Firewire Cables[/]="http://www.monopric…"]For only $1.48 each when QTY 50+ purchased - IEEE-1394 FireWire iLink DV Cable 6P-4P M/M - 6ft (CLEAR) | 4 - 6 pin Firewire Cables[/]

(not promoting the website, just using the visual)

Found a cable on a website at our place.

Outer shield and inner shield (foil and braid) ensures compliance with the latest IEEE 1394 standards, which reduces radio frequency and electro-magnetic interference.

I guess this is what your talking about? I'll order it, with a TI PCIE card

Unheard, post: 363450 wrote: Found a cable on a website at our place.

Outer shield and inner shield (foil and braid) ensures compliance with the latest IEEE 1394 standards, which reduces radio frequency and electro-magnetic interference.

I guess this is what your talking about? I'll order it, with a TI PCIE card

Did you see the cable at the site? I had to re-post the link.

Unheard, post: 363450 wrote: Found a cable on a website at our place.

Outer shield and inner shield (foil and braid) ensures compliance with the latest IEEE 1394 standards, which reduces radio frequency and electro-magnetic interference.

That should be the ticket.

Ah yeah!

Let's hope this'll work out. Hopefully ill get the cable + Card Monday most likely.

Thanks for the suggestion, ill let you know how it worked out. Let's hope it works..

Monoprice is an excellent supply source.

Hey Jack,

I ordered it from a website in my own Country, so hopefully i'll recieve it Monday; or else it'll be Tuesday

Thanks though! :cool:

Slight update:

Got a reply from Yamaha: They are telling me to try putting all plugs into the same box, which was also suggested here. - I tried this, didn't work.

Their second suggestion: DI-Boxes. - Im gonna try this if my new cable and fw pci-e card doesn't work..

I was wondering though - just in advance, what DI-box isn't too expensive, and does what it needs to do just fine?

Thanks.

Exactly how is a DI box going to solve this problem? A DI box takes an instrument-level high-impedance analog signal and generates a low-level microphone-level balanced signal, whereas your trouble with the Motif is the digital FireWire input modulation breaking through to the analog output.

[="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/print/PrintArticle.aspx?id=57778456"]Here[/]="http://www.thefreel…"]Here[/] is an article about FireWire ground noise, recommending capacitative isolation, and [[url=http://="http://www.powerdes…"]this[/]="http://www.powerdes…"]this[/] is another article about isolating FireWire. If your trouble is indeed due to audio-bandwidth digital currents circulating in the ground loop, then the sort of techniques outlined in the articles should help. A TI [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.ti.com/s…"]set of slides[/]="http://www.ti.com/s…"]set of slides[/] goes into some of the isolation problems with FireWire. However, if the problem is in fact poor isolation of the digital signals within the Motif, then nothing external is going to help you very much.

I hope your new cable and FireWire card reduce the problem to an acceptable level, but I have my doubts...

A DI isn't going to be of any use. A DI box is to go between Hi-Z input devices and the Mic input of a mixer/ preamp. The added benefit of a DI with a ground lift is to break the ground connection between two powered devices (e.g., keyboard & mixer) to eliminate ground loop hum. Although you should probably have a DI in your arsenal anyway for live sound situations or if you do connect to a board some day, if you are getting noise without anything plugged into preamps, it's not going to fix your problem. You're connecting direct with Firewire, no? Sounds like Yamaha is trying to deflect blame in case something is wrong with your Motif.

What do you consider cheap? Art and CBI make really cheap stuff. Radial is the best IMHO and have a decent DI for $79 called a Radial Pro. The Radial JDI as awsome, but $180 'ish. If you can afford it you'll never be dissapointed with a Radial DI of any kind. The really cheap stuff may give you crap sound.

Boswell, you beat me to it. I type too slow :frown:

Yes, i am connecting the firewire from the motif to the pc directly.

i am running a AC adapter for the motif next to it ofc though

Since the Motif is plugged in using a 6-pin firewire cable (powered), does it need the AC adapter to operate or will it work without it? Just asking.

Unheard, post: 363652 wrote: Slight update:

Got a reply from Yamaha: They are telling me to try putting all plugs into the same box, which was also suggested here. - I tried this, didn't work.

Their second suggestion: DI-Boxes. - Im gonna try this if my new cable and fw pci-e card doesn't work..

I was wondering though - just in advance, what DI-box isn't too expensive, and does what it needs to do just fine?

Thanks.

I hate to spring pricy suggestions that may or may not work but sometime down the line you might consider a power conditioner for your equipment as mdb mentioned. It would "put all your plugs into the box" while (hopefully) eliminating ac ground loops while adjusting current flow. Here's yet another link:

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.monopric…"]For only $173.58 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Rack-Mountable UPS Battery Backup for Audio & Video Home Theater System - 1000VA / 500W | UPS for Home Theater System[/]="http://www.monopric…"]For only $173.58 each when QTY 50+ purchased - Rack-Mountable UPS Battery Backup for Audio & Video Home Theater System - 1000VA / 500W | UPS for Home Theater System[/]

Very important to choose the right one here, many are big on claims & short on performing (even some of the big name brands). May want to read the reviews on this one.

Once again, not promoting a website. Perhaps someone can recommend a power conditioner where you are that makes the grade.

Thank for the replies guys =))

I tried to run the motif on just the firewire, but that's not working - not enough power i guess.

Also, someone told me that ground loops are usually lower frequency hums, and mine is High frequency - So could it really be a grounding issue?

gr.

So......

got a braided cable, and a TI pcie card.. DIDN"T WORK ....... Getting depressed. Wasting money this way.

Anyways..... Can it be a Software problem? Because the beep only starts if the Motif program fully loaded, and the sound changes when i screw around with the Sample rate..

When i get home ill also plugin headphones. see if the sound comes through the headphones

What type of lighting do you have? If the room lights (especially with dimmers or florescent light ballasts) are on the same electrical circuit, they can cause noise in an audio system. Turn the lights off in the room and anywhere else they are on the same circuit. Doubt it will help, but it can't hurt to try.

Is there an analog output on the Motif that you can try to connect to the computer with? If it's ground loop you should still get the noise through that as well. Otherwise, I'm thinking it's the Firewire card or some other circuitry within the Motif. Do you have access to another Firewire keyboard you could test on your setup?

I see you posted the same problem on the Yamaha Motifator board, and that's maybe where you picked up the erroneous idea of a DI box to solve it. What you should take away from that board is that you are not the only Motif owner with this problem, and that in my mind indicates the source of the FireWire breakthough trouble being internal to the Motif.

While there are things that contributors to this forum can suggest you try, my guess is that external palliatives will only modify the amount of high-frequency breakthrough and not eliminate it. It could be that you and other afflicted Motif owners should raise the level of concern directly with Yamaha, as it appeared from the Motifator board that the manufacturers were not taking the problem sufficiently seriously.

What type of lighting do you have? If the room lights (especially with dimmers or florescent light ballasts) are on the same electrical circuit, they can cause noise in an audio system. Turn the lights off in the room and anywhere else they are on the same circuit. Doubt it will help, but it can't hurt to try.
I have tried it, but just for my Room - I didn't shut down the other lights of the other rooms. I'll def. give it a try though!!

Is there an analog output on the Motif that you can try to connect to the computer with? If it's ground loop you should still get the noise through that as well. Otherwise, I'm thinking it's the Firewire card or some other circuitry within the Motif. Do you have access to another Firewire keyboard you could test on your setup?
There is a Analog output, ill have to try to find a cable though. I can also try a USB cable, see what that does.

I tried several Firewire Cables, cards, and the Onboard Firewire Slots, and the "beep" is the same on any combination. So i think the problem isn't laying here ... ? :confused:

Thanks mate.

I see you posted the same problem on the Yamaha Motifator board, and that's maybe where you picked up the erroneous idea of a DI box to solve it. What you should take away from that board is that you are not the only Motif owner with this problem, and that in my mind indicates the source of the FireWire breakthough trouble being internal to the Motif.
-Yeah, i did - And yeah, they suggested a DI box.... As they suggested a whole bunch of %(@*&.
I kind of gave up that forum, also noticed the main Yamaha Moderators stopped helping me out. Afterwards i contacted Yamaha themselfs and they ALSO suggested a whole bunch of stuff, and also a DI Box .... But why would it even work if the other 9 things they suggested ALSO didn't work out......

And yes, i get the idea they are putting the problem on my other equipment, even though there's numerous of others having the exact same problem as i am having.

While there are things that contributors to this forum can suggest you try, my guess is that external palliatives will only modify the amount of high-frequency breakthrough and not eliminate it. It could be that you and other afflicted Motif owners should raise the level of concern directly with Yamaha, as it appeared from the Motifator board that the manufacturers were not taking the problem sufficiently seriously.
I totally agree. But i am still hoping for just a simple answer so i can just MAKE MUSIC .... haha. I am gonna try a few more simple things, and else ill return the Firewire Expansion, and get a SP/DIF cable + Usb cable for midi.

I think its total BS..... This problem that is.

Thanks mate.

Unheard, post: 363931 wrote: I tried several Firewire Cables, cards, and the Onboard Firewire Slots, and the "beep" is the same on any combination. So i think the problem isn't laying here ... ? :confused:

I wasn't too clear. I was referring to the firewire card/circuit inside the Motif rather than your PC. I'm beginning to think it's the Motif.