It sounds to me that the room you're in is not treated to minimize 'standing waves'. When you pound an untreated room with a 4x12 behemoth, you've got so much sound pressure going into so much air space. Then the low-mid resonance points in the room are going to show their ugly little heads and screw with the 57. A single 12" works better in MANY studios because it's moving less air in the room. Plus, it's a single 'motor' (instead of 4 that are oh-so-slightly out of sync), so there is the punch and clarity from that simplicity. When a player comes into my studio with a 4x12 and attitude, I'll have him try it with this ancient Bogen Challenger 15-watt tube PA head pushing it. Cranking that up instead of a 100-watter to get the distortion and sustain doesn't overdrive the room.

moonbaby wrote: It sounds to me that the room you're in is not treated to minimize 'standing waves'. When you pound an untreated room with a 4x12 behemoth, you've got so much sound pressure going into so much air space. Then the low-mid resonance points in the room are going to show their ugly little heads and screw with the 57. A single 12" works better in MANY studios because it's moving less air in the room. Plus, it's a single 'motor' (instead of 4 that are oh-so-slightly out of sync), so there is the punch and clarity from that simplicity. When a player comes into my studio with a 4x12 and attitude, I'll have him try it with this ancient Bogen Challenger 15-watt tube PA head pushing it. Cranking that up instead of a 100-watter to get the distortion and sustain doesn't overdrive the room.

Yeah exactly. The room is a simple living that is obviously not meant and is not treated for recording. But rather than giving up I'm trying to find a solution. I could have him try my 15-er which I use to do some personal tracking, other than that I would have to try to find a way to slap those sound waves in the face. What about putting something some absorbing surface in front of the cab? Such as foams or heavy blankets? Since the room is large and the 4x12 is overkill for the room.

my man you could do some recordings with an amp sim like a pod pro, or go software style like native instruments guitar rig 2, and not have to worry one bit about your room being untreated.

This thread has some relevant information:
(Dead Link Removed)

I think that in the room you describe you may get the best results from miking a single-speaker amp.

Good info in that other thread.

In this case, I do not have money to go out and buy a DI. I was wonder what ways I could get around trying to go straight from the amp to the interface but that would not work. I'm not sure if his cab is this way, but I know that some guitar cabs have 2 speaker outputs, one which outputs to 2 speakers and same with the other. 2 speakers mic'ed is better than 4.

I also don't want to have to buy anymore software either. I just spent money on Cubase STudio 4 and a Firestudio, trying to save up to ugprade my compressor and hey what do ya know... Looks like I'll be getting a DI too.

So my choices so far seem to be...

1. Deal with it, put an SM57 to the cab and deal with the size of the room and hopefully some good mixing will make it unnoticeable.
2. Try and dampen the sound and swat any extra frequencies flying around by using material to alter the sound
3. Use my practice amp or borrow a practice amp from someone (1x12).
4. See if we can get his amp to only play out of 2 speakers instead of 4 to limit the number of sources.

I never like DI'ing a really dirty guit

If the track is meant for the cab sound then it wise to mic the cab and mix it good. However, listen to the guitar sound on Sultan's of Swing by Dire Straights, cuz that was DI'd to capture the crispness. I am having the same problem as you are having w/ my guitar rig. By the way thanks for the logical idea to use 2 speaks instead of 4, cuz I have a switch on the back of my Marshall cab to make the input stereo. If your using this cab there are two 1/4 inch inputs and a stereo switch will route each one to only 2 speakers then. Thanks I will try that tomorrow. I tend to go overboard lol
My best advice is go w/ all four of those ideas and go overboard w/ your creativity!
8) 8) 8) 8)

Re: I never like DI'ing a really dirty guit

DrGonz wrote: By the way thanks for the logical idea to use 2 speaks instead of 4, cuz I have a switch on the back of my Marshall cab to make the input stereo. If your using this cab there are two 1/4 inch inputs and a stereo switch will route each one to only 2 speakers then. Thanks I will try that tomorrow.

You may already know this, but just in case....If you are using a Marshall tube head, you may want to also change the impedance switch on the back of the amp head to 8 ohms, if your cab is like mine. Mine has four 16 ohm speakers paralleled for 4 ohms in mono. Switch it to stereo for only two speakers, brings it up to 8 ohms/side. Marshall amps are kind of fussy about their impedance.

Check that out whatever amp you're using, and double-check the cab to be sure. Better to be sure, than to watch your amp have a melt-down...as interesting and fun as it may be to see smoke billowing out of it!

Kapt.Krunch

If you have a single 15" speaker cabinet use that.You had it right in the beginning in your thinking that the 'other' speakers were hitting the mic at different times. This produces MUD. Simply and easily. The untreated room at high volumes produces MUD. Blankets over the cabinet will dampen the standing waves and nodes associated with the room. This is a good idea.

As a continuation of Krunchs' take, the Marshall will explode without the proper use of the impedance selector. Well, maybe not explode....but it might. Forgive me if my memory isnt what it used to be, but I seem to remember the Marshall cabinets having four 16 ohm speakers wired in series/parallel and being at 16 ohms per cabinet, with the stereo selectable models making eight ohms per side in that configuration. Maybe the new junk....err...stuff is different........... :!:

As for the 15" speaker ....You'd be surprised just how clear and clean a 15 is for heavy to metal rock. You may not be getting the speaker distortion you get with the low wattage 12's, but you will get the amps' grind and the harmonic overtones at an enhanced rate.

As always....YMMV.

Davedog wrote: As a continuation of Krunchs' take, the Marshall will explode without the proper use of the impedance selector. Well, maybe not explode....but it might. Forgive me if my memory isnt what it used to be, but I seem to remember the Marshall cabinets having four 16 ohm speakers wired in series/parallel and being at 16 ohms per cabinet, with the stereo selectable models making eight ohms per side in that configuration. Maybe the new junk....err...stuff is different........... :!:

Exactly...maybe. That's why I suggested that it be checked to be sure. My cab is 4 ohms mono, 8 ohms/side stereo. Doesn't mean everyone's is. I know a lot of Marshall cabs are 16 ohms. That's so when you add another for a full stack, it brings it to 8 ohms. I'd have to rewire mine to use it in a full-stack configuration, or else construct a series speaker cable to connect both to bring it up to 8, assuming the other was wired similarly. I couldn't do two 4 ohm cabs in parallel. It would be 2 ohms. Check yours. :wink:

Kapt.Krunch

Exploding amps is bad

Exploding amps is a bad thing huh? lol I remember someone telling me to always use speaker cable for speakers and never use a basic guitar cable. Seems that the cable might meltdown!
Well I used my 8ohm output and used two speaker config on the amp, and it sounded interesting. I used two mics w/ an SM57 on one speaker and an audix i5 on the other. I think the part I am playing is easily muddy or too piercing sounding. Its like a chord like solo w/ lots of changes, so sometimes the playing might be muddy or too busy in the 1st place. Its amazing tho when u add MS imaging to the track, EQ it, and compress a bit for control. Maybe when it is done I will post it on here so u can hear my muddy solo lol
:wink:

Sounds great guys.

The guitarist is actually using a Peavy, I forget which model. He has a really brutal solo tone but I've always had problems with his rythm tone so we're going to have to mess with the settings. I think they do have 2 1/4" outputs and a stereo switch, so we wil ltake a look at it and try to do only 2 speakers... I'll let ya know how it goes and post some sound clips! I will do that this w eekend I think...

How about moving the cab to another room? Garage? Bath or closet? Each has an advantage.

I always try to work with the guitarists' sound, however he gets it. Players that like 4x12 cabs like that low end thump.

Try moving the cabinet around until it sounds right in the room, then try to capture that sound with the mic. With large guitar and bass cabs it's a lot of work, but maybe the only way to find the "sweet spot."

I've moved on to software amps and cabs for that very reason. But most guitarists resist change...