Actually AC/DC is NOT heavily distorted Marshalls. If you've ver really listened to the guitars on those records they are rather clean for Rock guitars. Malcolm's tone is way clean and Angus a bit more drive, but I would hardly call it heavy distortion.

Also, the Def Leppard records that Mutt Lange did (especially High and Dry) are not Bradshaw rigs. but Marshalls turned up and rockin'.

high and dry, bradshw rigs weren't around yet...i was talking pyromania, hysteria.

If a Marshall turned up to 11 isnt a distorted sound then I've been kidding myself all these years.It is NOT yer typical 'extreme' distortion you hear so much of these days, but it is pushing the 12-15%.Its the nature of em. I would say AC/DC's sound is the sound of an UNAFFECTED distortion.Its big and clear and right in front of you.But it is definately a Marshall on 11 in a very dead room.

thank you....i guess i said it wrong. but i agree wholeheartedly. old marshalls have one sound.... distorted. great sound though :)

Not to be a dick but I hate that whole "Marshall turned up to 11" thing.

Angus & Malcolm DO NOT turn their amps up all the way. Either you haven't listened to many AC/DC records or you haven't had much interaction with Marshall amps.

" just crank up a little bit of bass and put a little bit of middle in. If it’s too bassy, I’ll cut it back. Usually, all the controls are set about halfway, never full up. A lot of people think it sounds best when you drive the amps to death, but I never do it that way. I think that when you turn things up too much, the sound sort of goes a bit mushy."

And.

"Your tone is actually much cleaner than many people think.

It is. The amp is set very clean. A lot of people who have picked up my guitar and tried it through my amp have been shocked at how clean it is. They think it’s a very small sound when they play it and wonder how it sounds so much bigger when I’m playing. I just like enough gain so that it will still cut when you hit a lead lick without getting that sort of false Tonebender-type sound. I like to get a natural sustain from the guitar and amp."

Right from the horse's (Angus') mouth.

Ha Ha!! Pretty much proves you wrong right there Davedog! So much for your "it is definately a Marshall on 11 in a very dead room." theory huh?

Also, sosayu2? I couldn't disagree more with your "old marshalls have one sound" comment. Do I need to start listing all of the many guitarists who use old Marshalls and sound nothing like each other? I could never understand the one sound Marshall idea. Jamie West-Oram from The Fixx uses Marshalls and he sounds nothing like Jimi Hendrix, or Angus Young or Billy Gibbons....

Originally posted by Rambo66:
Ha Ha!! Pretty much proves you wrong right there Davedog! So much for your "it is definately a Marshall on 11 in a very dead room." theory huh?

The master could still be on "11" couldn't it? On "11" doesn't say that the pre amp is overdriven... I saw Daves post as saying it was very loud in the room when recorded, not heavely overdriven. BTW, Hendrix didn't always use Marshalls.. I have seen a lot of video and pictures of him useing Fender Showmans also...

Well actually he said "Old Marshalls" if you read his post and stock "Old Marshalls" don't have master volume controls.

Yeah, yeah I know Hendrix occasionally used Dual Showmans but then he sometimes used a Flying V too. We both know he did the majority of his work with Strats and Marshalls and that is what he's mainly know for and is the gear he used to get his trademark sound.

Also, Angus uses JTM-45's in the studio and Malcolm uses old Plexi tops, both of which are non-master volume equipped amps.

Don't try to bust me and prove me wrong Kurt. I have been known to be wrong but not in this case.

Modeling amps were made to practice with @ home, not for recording or performing. Some can be used for recording, but you will never replicate the sound you are looking for with a POD. Try a POD against any tube amp live, and you will see what I mean. The POD will be on 10, and still have its sound crushed by a tube amp on 2. (But mine goes to 11)

The sound you seek is created with tube amps (Boogie, Marshall, Soldano, etc..)running hot into multiple cabs (4x10, 4x12, 2x15), mics in the right places (this is an artform in itself), and most important of all, good players. Depth can be created with mic technique and room placement. And as stated before, a solo'd guitar sound is not the same as a mixed guitar sound. Get it sounding good alone, but don't make final adjustments until the whole mix is there.

Originally posted by Davedog:
If a Marshall turned up to 11 isnt a distorted sound then I've been kidding myself all these years.It is NOT yer typical 'extreme' distortion you hear so much of these days, but it is pushing the 12-15%.Its the nature of em. I would say AC/DC's sound is the sound of an UNAFFECTED distortion.Its big and clear and right in front of you.But it is definately a Marshall on 11 in a very dead room.

Rambo66, I don't see the words "Old Marshall" anywhere in this post.. It seems you are wrong, at least about that. Where did you get your information regarding the amps and guitars AC/DC used in the studio? This is, IMO one of the most difficult things to do, to "Monday Morning Quarterback" any aspect of what someone has done while making a record.. There are so many variables.. sure, you can say "they usually use this", or "it sounds like it might be that" but unless you were actually there while everything was recorded, there's no telling what was done. I forget myself what I have used on some recordings. That doesn't even address the possibility that the amps may have been modified, or may be using a cabinet attenuator.. There are lots of possibilites. ... Kurt

Well actually Kurt here's the quote, sosayu2 said "old marshalls have one sound" am I still wrong? You are forgiven.

Where did I get my information? I've talked Guitars and Amps numerous times with both Angus and Malcolm so I would think they know what they use in the studio right?

That's funny I don't hear ya mentioning Hendrix and his Dual Showman's?

Kurt, just because you're the moderator here doesn't mean you know everything or are required to set people straight. I know what I'm talking about, give me some damn credit! And don't be so eager to attempt to flex your non-existant superior knowledge! I'm right you're wrong and that's the way it is. Get over it.

Hendrix also used a Supro Thunderbolt suprised you didn't mention that.

Rambo,
Opps! I was wrong! I went back and re read the comments and you indeed did address them to sosayu2

I am very sorry.. I gotta get some new glasses... Once again, very sorry and humbled... Kurt

I think its great that folks get to hammer the moderators! I actually enjoy it myself.But let me clarify something about my statement.And I really dont give a rats ass whether the wording bothers anyone at all as to what I said in a light attempt at humour.My statement about the Marshalls on 11 is simply a quote from the movie and serves as an analogy for LOUD.Yes, I have been around a LOT of Marshalls.Probably as many as most of you.I've personally owned a JTM45,JCM800,100 watt SuperLead and a frickin Marshall Major.And as a bass player for 35 years, I've played with a LOT of em in my ear.Anyone had one of those things laying around? You cannot overdrive that amp.It is 'clean'(a loose term) on 11.My take was simply on the use of the word 'distortion'.To say that +/-15% is not distortion of a signal is silly.If thats actually a clean signal then all of my recording gear just got a lot better.As for AC/DC, I'm pretty old and remember them from the beginning.Yes, they have a very good guitar sound.And as I said it is very uneffected,loud,and right in yer face as far as recordings are concerned.I dont think the amps in the studio are on 11(just an expression of LOUD) but they sure as hell are too loud to talk over.And the closeness of the mic'd sound leads me to believe they're in a very dead room and quite close mic'd.Of course I could be wrong...And if I am, oh well... :c:

AC/DC has had a lot of different recorded sounds over the years (although all from a similar family, granted).
Back in Black (being the holy grail for most fans generally) certainly was a JTM-45 fairly closely mic'ed in a fairly dead room.

And I'll agree that Marshalls don't have to get the ONE sound... for one thing there are many Marshalls... and for another people drive them differently.
Yes, Jamie used two JMP's when I produced the Fixx, and yes, not much like Angus!
Marshalls DO have a family resemblance though, sonically.
That's not a bad thing.

The Mutt/Def Leppard thing is a layering of lots of different guitars, some clean, some dirty, some high, some low.. but all incredibly, anally, TIGHT with each other.
Lots of people I know agree that good as they sometimes can sound, one real drawback in the PODs of the world (the Vetta included) is that multiple layers of them tend to get fizzy and muddled quickly. Much MORE quickly than layering 'real' amps.

As far as Eric Bazilian and the VG-8 , he had a flirtation with it, but my impression is it's passed.
And he NEVER stopped using his seemingly endless collection of AC-30's and rather nice guitars as well (even on his solo record).
We never used the VG-8 at all on any record I made with him. Simply because it never sounded even close to as good as the real things we had available.
We DID use it live on the Letterman show to get a 12 string sound with minimal hassle...

Also, sosayu2? I couldn't disagree more with your "old marshalls have one sound" comment. Do I need to start listing all of the many guitarists who use old Marshalls and sound nothing like each other? I could never understand the one sound Marshall idea. Jamie West-Oram from The Fixx uses Marshalls and he sounds nothing like Jimi Hendrix, or Angus Young or Billy Gibbons....

rambo, you pretty much made my point for me.... i'm not trying to argue with you. i've had many marshalls over the year. i didn't say they all sound the same. in fact the opposite is true they all sound really different but once you find the one great sound from that amp, don't mess with the settings. you could have ten of the same model of an old marshall and they will all sound different.
same as no 2 old les pauls are exactly alike, they are all slightly different.

It goes either way... I think Dream Theater's guitarist John Petrucci was using just his tri-axis preamp DI'ed into their PA when I saw them play, and I believe Nevermore's guitarist Jeff Loomis does the same with Line6 gear, and their sound is plenty heavy. So does SymphonyX's guitarist Micheal Romeo, I believe. Now, I've only met Petrucci, and didn't ask him about it, so I could be wrong. But these guys have live sound that rivals anything that a Marshall stack could create. It's as much their hands as their gear, but their gear is obviously up to snuff.

But that's what they do live. Who knows what they used in the studio? I've seen guys get a phenominal sound out of a Peavey Bandit 112 turned down so far that sneezing will drown out the guitar.

I personally believe that part of the powerful sound of the guitar comes from making a lot of air move. When you run a DI for live sound, the PA still makes air move. When you plug a POD into the mixer to record, it just doesn't have that 'forced air' sound.

I'm sure that getting a good direct sound is possible, and if you fiddle with it enough, you might strike gold. I've tried, but I end up sounding like Trent Reznor every time. I know the amp works, so that's what I use.

In the end, do what you can with what you have. The idea behind sound production is to communicate a musical idea, and if the musical idea is good and you play it well enough, the sound can be secondary.

Good luck!

Eric's into the non-top boost AC-30's is he not? I've heard it before from many people who are way into AC-30's that they like them better.

Eric is a great guitarist who always gets a great tone even way back when he was using that Boss multi-effect thing. P-90's and Vox's RULE!!!

AHA RAMBO!! I finally gotcha...

We agree! Amazing!

The only thing slightly out-a-whack is yer statement about what the guys who are 'really into' the AC-30 thing like...ie. topboost or no...I know a lot of Vox-in-ators and they're like everyone else...all different.Its a pretty sweeping generalization to call it one way or the other when there are SO MANY...I've seen Tom Pettys rigs up close, and it seems he had one of each..maybe because its the ones he had found that sounded the best to him.Like any hot car, tube amps all sound different...same model and parts down to the gnats ass...different sound.And the older they get the more diverse.At one time I owned three different Vox Cambridge Amps.2 tube models and one solid state.I had the tube guys gone through,recapped,retubed,the speaker numbers were within a month of each other...WAY DIFFERENT...so it goes.

Eric has lots of AC-30's and although we've toyed with many over the years we seem to always come back to two, one of his and one of mine, that sound the best and end up getting used almost every time.
And both are built-in top-boost models. His has grey speakers, mine has blues.

also, i remembered a story widely repeated at the time Pyromania came out that Mutt had auditioned 85 Marshall heads ot find THE one to use for that record.
I don't know for certain if it's true, but it's a good story!

[ August 18, 2003, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: MPlancke ]

I've gotten a decent sound with a POD 2.0 plugged into a Fender HotRod Deville. Could be a good solution if your guitarist just HAS to use the pod. And no, I can't get a really good sound out of the pod by itself...it just sounds sterile, too clean and fake. Plenty of people like it though. The clean tones are shite! Really bad.

I LOVE my POD! I think it rules. Sometimes I'll pump the POD through a monitor and mic that in the room for a little space, sounds great!! Throw a monitor speaker in the bathroom and put up a mic.

has any one tried out amplitube? they have a new "live" version which is designed to run in real-time through your computer (though, the original amplitube program can do that too)

I know alot of people I know seem to think it's just tons better sounding then any POD stuff. That's why i mention it. The demo is free.

Nothing beats tubes and microphones. While I like some of the stuff the modelers can do, I think they're really only usefull when used in combination with the real thing.

Also panning EVERYTHING hard l/r is almost the same as leaving everything straight up the middle. You've got 180degrees to play with. Use all of it. Spread things out. Stick lower freq guit on the inside (closer to centre) and higher stuff cutting through from the outside.

Originally posted by Pootkao:
Also panning EVERYTHING hard l/r is almost the same as leaving everything straight up the middle. You've got 180degrees to play with. Use all of it. Spread things out. Stick lower freq guit on the inside (closer to centre) and higher stuff cutting through from the outside.

Good tip, Pootkao (Hey, what's that smell? Did you poot?)

Later :cool:

Because the guitar's are DI its obvisley going to be hard to get that distance your looking for. But 1 way ive found good if im looking for some distance from a DI recording is to cut back 1-5 kHz. Then try to add some room effect. But like i said before DI anything and its going to be hard to get distance if you want it.

by the way, i almost never pan anything anywhere but left, right or centre. I don't even switch in the actual pan pots most of the time.

Really. Hmmm so where would you theoretically pan the following instruments in a mix.

Lead vocal
Doubled Lead Vocal
Harmony 1
Harmony 2
Drum Kit
Bass Guitar
Acoustic Main
Acoustic Capo
Electric Rhythm
Piano
Hammond
Pedal Steel
Percussion

Bass, center;
Lead vocal, center;
Leads, center;
Doubled Lead, hard left/right;
Kick and snares, center;

Others, depends on what they're doing. Is the piano doing light accompaniment or moving the music along?

Edit: Looking back, I can't figure out for the life of me what the heck I meant by "Leads", but "Doubled Lead" refers to the doubled vocal.

Hmm... "Leads". Wonder which little crevice of my brane that came from. Chalk up another mystery for Scooby Doo to solve.

[ August 21, 2003, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: falkon2 ]

i like moving things around when panning, cause it acts sorta like when eq'ing. if you push something a little left or right, it might move it out of it's way from another instrument much like frequency juggling does, to make things clearer. panning the reverb returns to someplace other then the original instrument. yet, not so drastic as "the opposite side" or anything...

Another 'pertinent' thread revitalized for those that missed it before.

Amazing how one's opinion can change over the course of half a year though. I'm looking back at the older posts and asking myself "did I write this?". :D