But for a quality mix, quality mastering is worth every penny and usually more...

vhollund wrote: Mastering out costs alot of money.

So does all the equipment people buy to do their own "mastering" only to have it turn out NOT as the expected and then they come here and ask "what CAN I DO?" it has been stated a number of times here. GO TO A PROFESSIONAL MASTERING ENGINEER IF YOU WANT PROFESSIONAL RESULTS. If you don't care or want to learn then do it yourself. If you want a pro then you have to pay pro rates. There is no other way to do it.

You get what you pay for. Simple but true.

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: [quote=vhollund]Mastering out costs alot of money.

So does all the equipment people buy to do their own "mastering" only to have it turn out NOT as the expected and then they come here and ask "what CAN I DO?" it has been stated a number of times here. GO TO A PROFESSIONAL MASTERING ENGINEER IF YOU WANT PROFESSIONAL RESULTS. If you don't care or want to learn then do it yourself. If you want a pro then you have to pay pro rates. There is no other way to do it.

You get what you pay for. Simple but true.

You are rigth , but people simply dont know what good mastering needs till you tell them or they hear it.
I know people who live from doing mastering ao on Cheaper
equipment.
And then all that good work is wasted on the Radio ofcourse.

well, anyway, to answer the question that is the title off this topic:
because a bit of compression and a ton of L2 makes a mix sound more finished...
if you're letting people hear your mix, you'll want it to sound as good as possible..
noone's going to send off every project, demo or just-messing-around stuff to a mastering house right?

this in no way replaces traditional mastering..

respect, aaaait?

huub,

hmmmmm...compressors and coffee... ?

Is this what you usually have for breakfast? :lol:

Is this what you usually have for breakfast?

breakfast is what people who don't spend all night on RO will be having soon.... :shock: (in denmark at least)

bennyg wrote: Well mastering isn't a black art, or magical, or anything of that sort, i don't think that mastering takes that long (as much as you guys make it sound) to learn. Mastering success comes in stages, you start out with a basic idea, that mastering involves EQ and compression, and limiters, and warming, and etc. etc. etc. , but at the same time you have no idea what or where to start, so you get an EQ and compressor, and start to work, then as time goes by, you learn what you have been doing wrong, and you fix it, mastering isn't like a sport, (this is for me, for others it may be different) you can pick up bad habits at first, but you can easily change those habits and techniques in just one night, and the amount of techniques is infinite, that's what i love about forums just like RO, you learn so much, and you pick up talk and techniques, and at the same time you get to share information that you know with others, RO is like an information powerhouse, if i was able to memorize everything in this forum, id be the best Engineer on the planet... well, anyway, mastering- what defines a commercial track, in a commercial track, mixing is 65% mastering is 35%, so if a mix is not commercial quality, neither will the master, and i think that you don't need a 20 year engineer to determine what work needs to be done to a mix to make it sound "good", i'd say that if my room was as good as sterling sound, i'd be a fair challenge mastering engineer, (note: i've been into mastering almost 6 years now (not a rookie))....

So the point of this is... you don't quite need AS MUCH time of experience as some people believe, id say that in 5 or so years, a person can become a respectable engineer if they work their tail off at making themselves one.

If they have good ears and can translate what they are hearing into a plan of action so they can "Master" the project. I have a number of interns working here. Some of them have the necessary ears to become great mastering engineers some of them do not. Some of them get along with clients and some do not (also an important skill) . Some of them have good ears but cannot make the connection between what they are hearing and what needs to be done to correct the problem. I can help them learn the necessary skills to be a great mastering engineer but if they cannot make the connection between what they are hearing and how to make it better then no amount of my intervention will make that connection for them.

I had one intern who was an excellent musician, and excellent composer and was well on his way to becoming an excellent classical music producer. When he would try and master anything it all sounded mid range heavy. He finally went to an audiologist and found that he had an 8 dB drop in both his ears in the middle frequency range. Moral of this story is that you cannot master what you cannot hear.

Just "wanting" to be or saying that you are a mastering engineer and being one are not the same. Agreed someone with 5 years of experience should be well on his or her way to becoming a good mastering engineer IF they have not learned to do all the wrong things and IF they have the ears and the equipment to properly master the material presented to them.

There are a lot of mastering engineers that do have the necessary ears and the necessary equipment to do the mastering but they do not have the people skills that are needed to attract and hold onto clients. These mastering engineer do not stay around for very long as they have no ongoing business.

There are also a lot of people who SAY they are mastering engineers but all they are doing to making everything LOUD by running everything they do though a Finalize or compressing the heck of the song with cheap software using their computer speakers as the final reference.

Mastering is both an art and a science and you have know how to work in both disciplines to make a good master. You have to know what works and what will not in terms of the music and you have to be able to self critique your own work which is something that a lot of people are unable to do. You have to have the knowledge of what lies behind the control panels of your equipment and know how to properly use all the equipment and software you are using. You have to be able to really listen to a piece of music and decide in your head what will make that piece of music sound better and then know how to achieve that result with the equipment and software you have. You have to have good people skills and be able to multitask during a session. You have to be a person with a good background in a lot of different genres of music and be able to pickup on very subtle variances in the music and what to do to bring out the best in the music and the performance. If you can do all of this then you are well on your way to becoming a good mastering engineer no matter how long you have been in the business.

I think money plays a large role but I also think that because mastering has become the final bastion of professional engineers, every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along entertains the idea that they too, can become a mastering engineer.

An example, the individuals who frequent mastering forums for several months asking questions and pumping the experts for the secrets of room design, speaker and amp choice and how it is all interconnected, who then announce they are in business and will master a song free for any prospective client ...

I suspect that the home recordists that is most able to really do their own mastering (the ones with the gear and the ears) probably are the only ones who actually have a pro ME do their mastering, leaving the bullsh*t mastering to those who really don't have a clue ...

Tell me Kurt!
Have I stepped on you toes?

First i will say that I see nothing wrong with ("the individuals who frequent mastering forums for several months asking questions and pumping the experts "). Afteral this is one of the things that this forum is for!

Browsing through our threads I can see that I know a fairly bit more about how electonic circuits work than you. I also know more about what it takes to get correct monitoring.
So you note about: ("speaker and amp choice and how it is all interconnected") don't really fit my profile, and acoustics either.

Please tell me, was it me you where referring to?
Right now i take it as it was... since you also wouldn't give me your email :roll:

not everyone want master own recordings. I asked if someone around dc can do string quartet. noone answer. so many "engineers" in music cheat musicien, and not very many even competent. no surprise musicien says: I cannot make worse then them!!! :twisted:

this is all getting so ugly!
hey, in the end we all love music and audio, right?
we're all passionate about the same thing..
call me a hippy, but,hey...can't we all just.....get along?
peace man,
huub

Sorry no one reponded in the DC area. If your in a rut, there are a lot of good guys in the NYC area that would handle it with loving care.

beemac wrote: not everyone want master own recordings. I asked if someone around dc can do string quartet. noone answer. so many "engineers" in music cheat musicien, and not very many even competent. no surprise musicien says: I cannot make worse then them!!! :twisted:

Call Andrew Lipinski at Tonmeister in DC:

Problem solved. But probably not cheaply-- you almost always get what you pay for.

Rich

Sonarerec wrote: [quote=beemac]not everyone want master own recordings. I asked if someone around dc can do string quartet. noone answer. so many "engineers" in music cheat musicien, and not very many even competent. no surprise musicien says: I cannot make worse then them!!! :twisted:

Call Andrew Lipinski at Tonmeister in DC:

Problem solved. But probably not cheaply-- you almost always get what you pay for.

Rich

merci. i'll also call this one engineer. takes many time to find good people. and "get you pay for" - there were always young people trying to come to where the afirmed are. they did all they could for less - where they now?

beemac wrote: not everyone want master own recordings. I asked if someone around dc can do string quartet. noone answer. so many "engineers" in music cheat musician, and not very many even competent. no surprise musician says: I cannot make worse then them!!! :twisted:

You are of course correct in that some engineers do cheat musicians. They do shoddy work and charge a lot or they take forever to do the most mundane tasks so they can charge more.

A former mastering client of mine told me that he could no longer afford my rates and went with a much cheaper mastering/recording/duplication house to get his mastering done. Most projects we do come in at the $400 to $600 dollar range for 10 songs. My former client was charged $800.00 for his mastering and it sounded REALLY bad. The person only charged $20.00 per hour for his time but took 40 hours to master a 10 song album. He took hours and hours doing "custom" fades and "custom" eq'ing not to mention all the time he sat and listened to the tunes over and over again with out doing anything. In the end my former client did not get the deal he thought he would and he had a terrible mastering job to boot. He was out of money, out of time and had nothing to show for his $800.00 except and badly done badly mastered CD. He asked it I could make it better for a couple of hundred dollars but I told him that it was so badly done I would have to start all over again. Moral of this story is sometimes you DO NOT get what you pay for.

On the other side of the coin some musicians also cheat engineers. They take their listening copy of a mastering session and use it for replication forgetting come back and pay the engineer for his time and trouble. They also cheat by compelling the mastering engineer to do a hurry up mastering job only to bring the material back numerous times afterwards to the mastering engineer for "changes" which they assume will be done for FREE. They also bring in material that is below the quality of what is normally expected at a mastering session and then blame the mastering engineer for not making them sound "professional" when the mastering has really nothing to do with the "professional sound" they are seeking.

I had a recent client who drove up in a brand new SAAB 9000 turbo. He had some material that he wanted mastered. After I had mastered the material he told me that he did not have the money to pay me but if I would make 50 CDs for him he would sell them and pay me for the replication and the mastering at some time in the future after he had sold all the CDs. Talk about a scam artist.

I have also had musicians who thought that the mastering session was a time to fix all the mistakes that were made up until the time it was ready for mastering and were, in some cases, upset that the mastering could not do all they wanted it to do and refused to pay because they did not "get what they wanted". The problems were many including out-of-tune instruments, off the beat percussion, singers who were consistently flat and mixes that were either all in the middle or so widely spaced that there was no middle to the recording.

Mastering sometimes can do miracles but it cannot make up for shody workmanship and poorly played and or poorly witten, poorly recorded or poorly mixed songs.

I could go on but ...

So yes you are correct there are engineers who cheat musicians but there are also musicians who cheat engineers. The music business is not known for being the most honest business on the planet.

Name one business that IS known for being honest. It's all a matter of finding someone that you CAN trust. Whether it's getting my car fixed or mastering a record, you have to find the people that you can trust. Once you find them, then you can finally get things done. Referals are the best place to start, someone has a good experience and are happy to recommend them to others. 80% of my new business are recommendations from happy clients. This is actually the best kind of client. 1) I know where they came from and who they are associated with. 2) They know that I've done great work with others and have heard it.

So how does one go about finding someone? Ask around and look at credits. There is a reason some have a long list of credits and others don't. Credits may not tell you everything, but it's a good indicator of what kind of work they are doing and at what level they are working at.

turtletone wrote: Name one business that IS known for being honest. It's all a matter of finding someone that you CAN trust. Whether it's getting my car fixed or mastering a record, you have to find the people that you can trust. Once you find them, then you can finally get things done. Referrals are the best place to start, someone has a good experience and are happy to recommend them to others. 80% of my new business are recommendations from happy clients. This is actually the best kind of client. 1) I know where they came from and who they are associated with. 2) They know that I've done great work with others and have heard it.

So how does one go about finding someone? Ask around and look at credits. There is a reason some have a long list of credits and others don't. Credits may not tell you everything, but it's a good indicator of what kind of work they are doing and at what level they are working at.

Credits lists are GOOD ways to judge but many people simply list people that they have "worked with" and not just the people they have mastered and or recorded or, more importantly, satisfied with the work that was done for them if they indeed were clients.

In my younger life I was a concert sound engineer and worked with a lot of big name stars. I also worked at a major undergraduate college for most of my adult life. I guess I could include about every major artist that came though the college to perform as performers I have "worked with" (by doing concert sound for them or recording them or being the college's representative while they were here) but I have never mastered any of their works nor had them as clients in my mastering studio so I don't list their names on my brochures or on my website. But I can legally prove that I "worked" with them so I could if I wanted to legitimately list those people on my brochure and on my web site as people I have "worked with" I could but I could not call them "clients" since I never received any money directly from them for services provided.

Names of people I have worked with that you may know include Yo Yo Ma, Sonny Rollins, Issac Pearlman, They Might be Giants, REM, The English Beat, Dave Brubeck, Ray Charles, The Cleveland Orchestra, Pete Seeger, The Boys of the Lough, Phish, Thomas Hanson, Paul Winter, Battlefield Band, Tom Paxton, Michael Hedges, Bela Fleck and the list goes on and on and on.

In my searches of the web I see a lot of sites listing the same exact artists and same exact CDs that they have "done" and some even take credit for mastering or recording such and such artist on such and such CD but if you look in the CD many times you do not even see their name on the CD booklet. Rather strange to say the least since they are taking credit for the artist and or CD.

So this practice of listing people as CREDITS (even though you were only a roadie with the sound crew) is as dishonest as you could possibly get . IMHO!!!!

The best way to tell if someone is good is to experience their work and judge for yourself. Reading a list of phony credits on a web site is NOT a good way to judge anything. (and I am not saying that there are not a lot of people that are very honest about their client list, as I am sure you are. It is just that there are more and more people who are taking credit for doing work for someone famous that they have not really done just to look better when someone does a search on the web)

My thoughts on the matter of "credits"

hello masters of mastering!!! I was very dirrect, but i see everybody know plain talk! this is good!!! we string quartett long in business and remember coming where noone know. recording-mastering people never done and job horrible!!! :cry: musique business horrible in that! my pointe for mastering people:

if you know how much client can make money and how much you help, charge honestly for that and evcerybody happy!!!

There are various ways to check credits like artists direct etc... If you are in this for the long haul, then you have to earn the trust of your clients. Absolutely the best way is to see and or hear the work being done. But if this is a first time relationship, then you have to use alternate routes.

Beemac, you are correct. That's why most ME's I know have a sliding scale. If an artist comes in and is going to make 1000 CD's, of coarse they aren't going to pay the same rate that an artist Selling 1,000,000 CD's is. That is unless you don't want to work with the smaller artists.

turtletone wrote: There are various ways to check credits like artists direct etc... If you are in this for the long haul, then you have to earn the trust of your clients. Absolutely the best way is to see and or hear the work being done. But if this is a first time relationship, then you have to use alternate routes.

Beemac, you are correct. That's why most ME's I know have a sliding scale. If an artist comes in and is going to make 1000 CD's, of coarse they aren't going to pay the same rate that an artist Selling 1,000,000 CD's is. That is unless you don't want to work with the smaller artists.

I musicien classique and can only say :lol: :lol: :lol: to milion cd!!!

If you wanna decent job work for people musique classique selling 1000 CD! If you wanna get money, why chose refining musique?

If you wanna make merde even louder, then...well I dont care :-?

Ok, not sure what you said but it sounds good in french/english.

Fascinating thread. What I don't get is why anyone would skip mastering - it's the least expensive and most effective part as far as I'm concerned. Even some of the most expensive mastering is only $300/hr which should get you about 1.5 song done! Sounds expensive, but when you think about it, not really.
As a home recordist who is VERY serious about my work, I have two views on it. I've spent literally two years recording, mixing, learning, reading EVERYTHING I can get my hands on, listening to others mixes, listening closely to all my favorite music, getting every possible opinion on my mixes - this is all just preperation for starting the real recording, which I want to sound right. I recently got to the stage with two songs where they were to be mastered. I had a friend master one song, he's been doing it for a few years, I had a total pro, high end studio, 30+ years engineer do it right in front of me, I had a crack at it myself on Soundforge and I'm sending it to a mid end studio next week.
Why would I have it mastered so many times? Because this is all part of my learning process before I get down to the real CD I want to record, and I want to know what's happening.
My view so far is that the best version is my own mastered one. I don't fully trust this yet - I might be wrong, it might only sound good on my monitors - and I doubt I'll do the mastering of the CD at the end of all this.
But I DO find it interesting my master sounds the best to me - especially after recording, performing, writing and mixing everything to begin with.
I think it comes down to the person. I'm a little skeptical of this catch phrase "you should never master your own music." That's probably true most of the time. But it's possible that some people's ear's and perceptions are up to the task. Myself, I'm simply obssessed with all the recording, mixing etc that I've been doing. I've made plenty of mistakes and learned a lot in the last two years. The internet has been an invaluable help - without which I could not be where I am because of the sheer availability of help and information is making it possible for me to learn. So far, my mixes translate from system to system and I DO believe my ears are probably up to the task of mastering my own material. But again, this is after two years of obsessive learning and trial and error on my part. I will get my material mastered - but each time, I WILL have a crack at it myself too, to see how it measures up because if I can do it better, I will.
A couple of pointers to the future: Getting projects that are 'serious' projects only could be on its way out. With the downloading of music, I predict the eventual demise of the giants like EMI, Sony, etc. Music will be less and less expensive, until it's free. Even before it's free, there will be a noticeable drop in the quality of projects coming in because there will be fewer people - labels and musicians alike - willing to pay for high end recording. More and more people will want to do it themselves. Add to that that the digital music/software world is still very young, so what doesn't do the trick today or stand up to high end facilities, WILL tomorrow, it's just a matter of time.
Music will be like writing - anyone will be able to do it if they know the language and have the software - which lo and behold, will also be less and less expensive.
I would wager that there are MANY musicians who are quite capable of mastering their own mixes - I've heard their songs and they're great. Quite simply, if they CAN and it works, why not? If they can't, then don't.
For the moment, another pair of ears, far more experience and better equipment wins out.

I agree with beht,

I've been recording/mixing for a few years now and I have seen the progress I have made from song to song and project to project. It has been a dificult task though, many books, research, listening, advice and absorbing a lot of information the internet has to offer. I have to say, my mixing has gotten much better but I'm far from a good master, yet I want to learn, why? Because I think I can learn the art of mastering. It might take a few years but I'll continue taking a shot at mastering when I can.

I have worked with a few people (I mostly do my own stuff) and I always recommend them to a PRO ME but when they see the price, which to me is not expensive when you consider what it is going to do to a project, they ask me if I can do it. I would then go to a second option, the plant I usually do my duplications in also does mastering for a moderate price. Some will go for it and some will not, that's when I come in but I warn them I'm far from professional.

So yes, I want to learn.
Will I master my big upcoming project?
I will do what Beht does, I will send it to a PRO ME and take a crack at it myself.

By the way, what do you think about Disc Maker's Mastering? Have any of you used their services? What has been your experience? Or what have you heard about them? An Inquiring mind wants to know.

digidan00 wrote: I agree with beht,

I've been recording/mixing for a few years now and I have seen the progress I have made from song to song and project to project. It has been a dificult task though, many books, research, listening, advice and absorbing a lot of information the internet has to offer. I have to say, my mixing has gotten much better but I'm far from a good master, yet I want to learn, why? Because I think I can learn the art of mastering. It might take a few years but I'll continue taking a shot at mastering when I can.

I have worked with a few people (I mostly do my own stuff) and I always recommend them to a PRO ME but when they see the price, which to me is not expensive when you consider what it is going to do to a project, they ask me if I can do it. I would then go to a second option, the plant I usually do my duplications in also does mastering for a moderate price. Some will go for it and some will not, that's when I come in but I warn them I'm far from professional.

So yes, I want to learn.
Will I master my big upcoming project?
I will do what Beht does, I will send it to a PRO ME and take a crack at it myself.

By the way, what do you think about Disc Maker's Mastering? Have any of you used their services? What has been your experience? Or what have you heard about them? An Inquiring mind wants to know.

Most of the time places that advertise mastering as part of their package of replication are not really mastering places in the true sense of the word. They have some equipment and someone who can push buttons and chose various presets (Oh this is rock so we will use the rock setting on the finalizer). Most places that advertise this are doing it as a "service" for their clients or as an additional revenue stream. I know of one place in southern Ohio that has a really great mastering engineer as part of their replication operation and he has an awesome mastering setup and does really high level work. I also know that a lot of places use interns or high school students to do the "mastering" and most of it is done in a cubicle that is smaller than a phone booth. There is a place near here that does replication. They have a "mastering room" with some equipment in it. The floor is tile, the walls and ceiling plaster and it is located right next to the high speed cassette loader so it is not a very quiet place. The mastering engineer who works there interned with me and is good at what he does but he cannot hear very well on the equipment provided and so is unable to do really hi level mastering.

If you want to learn to do mastering do it....we all had to start somewhere. One word of advice is don't master on the same equipment you mixed and recorded on if you can at all help it. Monitoring is a big part of mastering and you cannot master what you cannot hear and most tracking and mixing speakers are not good for mastering.

FWIW

Thanks Thomas for your input.

I have been a bit skeptical about sending my work to a place that does mastering as an extra service, and sometimes the price they advertise makes you wonder really how much time they put into each song.

And yes! There is a big difference from mixing equipment to mastering equipment. I was blown away with the price of the b&w 800 speakers, Wow!

I'll keep learning about mastering on my DAW with my Alesis monitors for now.

Thanks Thomas.

PS - Can anyone recommend a few mastering labs I can look into?

digidan00 wrote:

PS - Can anyone recommend a few mastering labs I can look into?

Let the floodgates open. How many messages can this server handle anyway?

Studio B wrote:

Let the floodgates open. How many messages can this server handle anyway?

Oooops!

Maybe I'll ask the question a different way.......what are good signs of a quality mastering lab? After that I'll research and shop around myself.

Best thing to do is ask around. next best thing is to check some of the records you like. next best thing is to look at discographies, equipment, and experience.

don't be afraid to call or email whom ever you are interested in and talk to them about your project.

digidan00 wrote: [quote=Studio B]

Let the floodgates open. How many messages can this server handle anyway?

Oooops!

Maybe I'll ask the question a different way.......what are good signs of a quality mastering lab? After that I'll research and shop around myself.

I am sure there are some really great ones in your own backyard and if not there have to be some really fine ones in neighboring states. Best to attend the session if at all possible. Two reasons first you will learn a lot and second it is always better to "be there" when something is being done to your material. I encourage clients to be at sessions. They trust me but I always like to have that "extra" little bit of advice from them when I am mastering.

Best of luck on finding someone you can work with and trust.

Thanks Tom,

Michael Fossenkemper recommended that I find out who did the mastering on my favorite recording in regards to how it sounds. I did just that and found out that the artist has been using the same mastering studio for the past 2 projects. "Sterling Sound" in New York.
I just checked out their website and they look impressive and maybe a bit out of reach.

I'm just at the other side of the river and I know I have tons of mastering labs in NYC I can look into.

Tom, I will also take your advice into consideration of looking for someone that will work with me at a more personal level.

Now I have to evaluate if my project will be worth knocking over the Federal Reserve.

digidan00 wrote: Thanks Tom,

Michael Fossenkemper recommended that I find out who did the mastering on my favorite recording in regards to how it sounds. I did just that and found out that the artist has been using the same mastering studio for the past 2 projects. "Sterling Sound" in New York.
I just checked out their website and they look impressive and maybe a bit out of reach.

I'm just at the other side of the river and I know I have tons of mastering labs in NYC I can look into.

Tom, I will also take your advice into consideration of looking for someone that will work with me at a more personal level.

Now I have to evaluate if my project will be worth knocking over the Federal Reserve.

Sterling Sound has a new NIGHT time operation called After Hours where they reduce the prices quite a bit. I think if you go to their website http://www.sterling-sound.com/afterhours you can read all about it.

Hope this helps

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
Sterling Sound has a new NIGHT time operation called After Hours where they reduce the prices quite a bit. I think if you go to their website http://www.sterling-sound.com/afterhours you can read all about it.

Hope this helps

Wow! That is not a bad price. $1,500 album package deal for an attended mastering session and $1,200 unattended.

The only curve to all this is that seasoned engineers are doing the mastering and not the seniors. Yet, I think it's a great deal that won't break the bank.

Thanks Thomas, again.

digidan00 wrote:

I'm just at the other side of the river and I know I have tons of mastering labs in NYC I can look into.

Just a side note that i'm extremley excited about....
In the next few months i'll be building a new mastering suite in the northern part of NJ. It's in a nice relaxed country atmosphere but lets say a shorter commute than most F train rides in from brooklyn. I'm right in the process of reaserching the designer/builder....getting close.
Ed

Congrates Ed. you should post pics as it progresses.

On a note about Sterlings after hours. Just remember that the person doing the work is more important. So talk to the engineer that will be doing your work and make sure your comfortable with his or her abilities.

Hey Michael ....
I saw your pic in the lastest edition of EM ... congrats!!

I hate to burst your bubble, but what if you did come accross someone who did everything on their own and had a vast knowladge of mastering and enjoyed it, and was selling thousands of cd's and knew everything about recording, at a recording degree level. and they also cracked there own software and did everything at low cost.

What would you say to that?

Ok, first of all....................................................Ed, congrats. How close are you to Jersey City? I would like to check your place out when your done.

Michael, you are totally correct, you can have state of the art equipment, but if you are a novice your work will also sound like it.

Starmusicdigital, that's one person, now go find me a 100 more like him/her. I believe anyone with patience and some know how can do a decent job, even a good job. But if my toddler son is sick, I would hesitate taking him to his grandma and her 101 home remedies, he's just too important to experiment with. I know that's a crazy example but if you want take a chance at your stuff, then go ahead. Yet, I know there are people out there with golden ears from years of experience that will give you "THAT" sound. So my hard work will go to a pro while I think I can do a good job and when I know I can do job, then maybe I'll do my own stuff.

"I hate to burst your bubble, but what if you did come accross someone who did everything on their own and had a vast knowladge of mastering and enjoyed it, and was selling thousands of cd's and knew everything about recording, at a recording degree level. and they also cracked there own software and did everything at low cost.

What would you say to that?"

I would say that he's starting to believe his own hype.

Good answer Michael!

You summed it up well in very few words.

digidan00 wrote: Ok, first of all....................................................Ed, congrats. How close are you to Jersey City? I would like to check your place out when your done.

Thanks,
Right now i'm 1 path stop away in my humble...but effective west Village studio. The new studio will be in North Haledon nj. a 40 min drive from jersey city or a 1/2 hr train ride from hoboken.
I know I may loose some clients for not being in the city. But the relaxing country atmosphere is worth the trip.
Ed

I'll bet many people here, including myself, started recording because they didn't/couldn't afford a studio. In my case, I figured I could pay a studio a hunk of change for one or two albums, or I could spend the same money on equipment and be able to make as many albums as I wanted.

Yes, there is a learning curve, but it is the same learning curve that EVERY SINGLE PRO ENGINEER had to deal with.

As far as mastering goes, I would love to be able to afford the best mastering engineer in the world. But I can't, and neither can most people that don't have some sort of financial backing.
Every mastering engineer at the top of their game started at the same place everyone else does - at the bottom. They put in the hours needed to grow and gain experience and knowledge. They are not mystical magic geniuses who hold the secret to the Holy Grail. They worked hard to become good.

So how can anyone suggest that someone else can't do the exact same thing that THEY did. Do they think they are the last of the Mohicans? Are they just somehow smarter and more talented than anyone else? Do they believe that no other person could possibly learn the same things that they know?

Anyone who wants to put the time in and apply themselves (and has at least some talent or aptitude) can reach the level that puts them in the top echelon of mastering engineers.

The best were all in the same boat as everybody else at some point, and if they can do it, other people can too. You do not have to be touched by an angel, or be on some sort of elite spiritual level to do it.

Having said all that, the fact remains that if I were to start rolling in money, I would get the best mastering engineer in the world to master my music. But I would sit with him while he did it and learn from watching him to improve MY OWN mastering skills. (I'm not too shabby as it is.)