I can plainly tell you regardless of your equipment, whatever it is you are doing, doesn't work. Plug-in to ride the local levels? Are you kidding me? Yes the kids sounds exactly as you described and so does the recording. You obviously haven't taken quite enough singing lessons from Bob Dylan? So you got a nice hot rodded RME microphone preamp that sound decidedly better than whatever that piece of stuff is you are currently using. This is one of the thinnest, unflattering, crispy lackluster sound that I have trouble even calling sound. I'm so glad you're having such fun making such lousy sound. You'll go far that way. Just give them a list of your equipment and they'll know you're a genius because you sure fooled me. I was expecting something good? I don't know what I was thinking? And what is there to be gleaned from this? You can't possibly be hallucinating in thinking this is good? You did this just to be funny with your Behringer $100 investment level microphone and a mixer? Right?

Oh thank goodness... I thought you were serious there for a moment? I'm so vein... you got me good. Thank God you weren't serious. I mean if you were serious? I probably would've taken a handful of my barbiturate painkillers and washed it down with a nice bottle of scotch. In my suicide note, I'd hold you responsible. That's why no you just joking. I mean that was just about as funny as that commercial of that pretty girl singing in the studio from the control room perspective and then from the studio perspective. I like those kind of comedy demonstrations so I like yours also because it was one of the funniest I've heard in a long time. Neumann TLM-102... yeah that's a good one.

Nothing like having a good laugh before going to sleep.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Remy- What has to snap in your mind for you to think it is okay to talk to another human like this?

Thank you Paul.

I've been saying this for months and its getting worse. Remy has been incredibility rude to me as well to a point I don't post in my own forum anymore. She turns things stupid. I'm beside myself on what to do with her. You are incredibility insulting and its getting worse, Remy. Start by first getting rid of the stupid voice recognition program you use and then read your tone before you post. I've had enough of you talking to people like this.

In my experience Remy has had this tendency since I joined the forum some years ago. She recently blamed her "time of life" which I would fully sympathise with. Sadly though, that could only be a reason for the recent increase in vitriole and not the underlying attidude.

My sympathy to you Chris and I hope you can find some resolution as, when you manage to cut through the crap (often claimed to be humour when challenged), she has much to offer the forum. Is that experience worth the hassle I wonder?

Thank you!

Its not easy removing people especially individuals that you want to help however, there is only so much one can blame on their unfortunate circumstances . Remy's time is limited here now! One more sign of this and I will remove her without hesitation.

I've had enough of it

Sent from my iPhone

And to dish some of your attitude back, I've never learned one thing from her. Majority of her posts are long winded (full of self) dated information useless to my process. I've had so many complaints and allowed this to go on way too long here. She gives inaccurate opinion on gear she has never used nor knows nothing about!

The unfortunate part of being an admin, I need to be extra careful not to appear self serving so Remy, this is way beyond personal.

Sent from my iPhone

She did the same thilng to "Gigcity" yesterday over a charity announcement. Now I'm sorry as hell that I stood up for her.

Yeah. Respect should be the 'norm' here not the exception.
Its hard to respect something that continues to create animosity out of nothing.

For what its worth, the education of those around us with similar interests and less knowledge or experience is very difficult with a format that is basically a headless faceless dialog devoid of direct emotional contact. Reading something into someones comments without actually seeing or hearing the given context is a crapshoot at best.

That being said, there is a continuing disconnect in Remy's commentary. Its growing in its logic to reality balance.

I'm worried but where do you draw the line.

Of course this is in the public realm now. Perhaps the message will be considered.

Now in answer to Bobbo's post....I didnt find anything particularly revealing in your track. except for the guitar sound being probably a bit better than one of those plywood acoustics that mid-70's Epiphones are. I assume its one of the Japan models because the American made Epiphones are on par with anything built at that time but I dont remember if they stopped the production of better guitars made in Kalamazoo by the 70's. So if its one of those Japanese built plywood boxes then you have a good recording of it. everything else is really sort of flat and uninteresting. The sonics arent any better than many mid-priced preamps selections. It kind of has the flavor of a Focusrite Platinum series pre. Lots of extended range but no guts.

It still didnt deserve the comments made and in the way they were made.

The bottom line with any purchase is are YOU happy with it...

well put Dave.

to Remy's comments;

it is hard to make an assessment of a mic pre when the performance and the song distracts. no offence intended but i for one don't care for Paul's remark either. what he said is just as bad imo.. who is he to judge someone else and call them out in front of everyone? that would have better delivered in a P.M.or perhaps an "oohhhhhh! that's pretty harsh." would have sufficed?

i'll talk to someone any way i want to ... especially if they have posted in a public forum. if they can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen so to speak.

however;

the topic was the pre amp .. not the performance. if the post had been made in the song and mix or the track talk forums her comments would have been more appropriate imo.

i understand where Chis is coming from but he's the administrator here and it's his job to help keep things going in a positive direction. but i hate to see everyone pile on once someone is down. it smacks of ass kissing.

there's a history here;

i think there is more to it under the surface than the eye sees. there is a lot of rambling and going on and on in her posts lately. i hesitate to criticize but it's gets hard to glean any useful information when every post is 3000+ words. i myself struggle to keep things succinct and to the point. i suspect both myself and Remy enjoy the sounds of our voices a bit too much sometimes. :tongue:

to the (supposedly) egregious comments made;

the whole jump on Remy bit scares me. i too have a propensity to comment when i think something really sucks. i also say when i think something is good. no way am i defending anyone but i do think that if something sucks we all have a duty to say it sucks.

this whole "politically correct" and "never discourage art in any form" bit has ruined pop culture. there's many people out there claiming to be "artists" of one kind or another who simply need to slapped (hard) and told to get back to flipping burgers or washing cars.

no one wants to work anymore;

by that i mean at learning to play an instrument (bang bang, E minor to C major 7th, please) , sing (if you want to call it that), record (that too was horrid) or pumping gas. some have talent and some don't. it's that simple. we as accomplished professionals should have the balls and the freedom to tell people when they suck. it's not a polite business and it's a not a politeness contest. in many instances we are discussing peoples livelihoods and careers here. "polite" is is the reason for what we have now for not slamming down on rack crap cheap China / Indonesian equipment 10 years ago. look where that's gotten us.

aww crap .... another freakin' book .. sorry :redface:

Nicely put as usual but I don't buy it Dave. Not without this long overdue bitch slap. I've wasted hours and hours responding to her over threads she's disrupted and turned into mass self absorbed stupid. Many topics that could have been intelligent, I erased here because they just got so off topic. What a waste of time.

She insults members in a twisted way. I don't know about you all, if you listen to her work, I can honestly say I haven't heard worse recordings, yet she is some sort of authority on sound engineering here and talks to people like this. Give me a friken break. yes I feel sorry for her but her problem isn't going to become ours anymore.

Part of the reason I don't want to be in the business is directly related to this crap. I just can't stand it anymore. She's been asked to tame it down more than once but it isn't sinking in. Its just getting worse. Her insults and the way she has communicated with members and me over the years, members that will never return because they are so insulted, or disgusted its despicable. You stopped reading Dave, but I haven't. I have read hundreds of her responses and they suck. Plain and straight.

All I needed was a few comments to do us justice. Thank you to the ones for standing up here. Had this not happened, she would surely continue.
How many people has she damaged along the way is all I wonder about.

Kurt, you have no idea.
I have asked members and mods to step in here and NO ONE did, so it continues. I basically begged the mods to help. Has anyone?

No more.

Thank you Paul!

Chris,

i agree with your actions. i said that before and i'll say it again. i'm with you ... but it's your place to say it not any one else.

i actually skip over many of her posts when i see they are 4 million words long ... too much to do, too little time for it.

i just hate to see everyone pile on and start kicking when she's already down. i also fear that we will have to start biting our tongues when we post. that would not be good imo. who's next? it's a slippery slope.

go listen to that song again if you can stand it. it was horrid. the op should be bitch slapped for wasting our time. that 3 minutes i'll never get back. not to mention the time i'll spend trying to get it out of my mind ... here we go again ... Ctrl-alt-Del / Ctrl-alt-Del / Ctrl-alt-Del aww crap!

imo it's a mistake to nurse and coddle these kids. they need tough love. we also need to protect ourselves and an industry that is fast going to hell in a hand basket because every one is becoming afraid they will be seen as overly critical. i'm with Simon on this one. someone needs to say "you're not going to Hollywood.

The truth hurts but it is needed. We are all down. Life is a bitch and then you die

She hasn't listened to me one bit. I will remove this after she reads it, and I hope its taken well. She needs to look at herself and see that its not just me that is offended. Remy, we love you but you need to reflect.

Yes, right on Kurt! You know I'm with you on this 100%.

Last year I said to Davedog in a PM, I've had enough of the BS on forums. I set out to get a shit load of gear 5 years ago and to start testing stuff. I'm so sick of all the misinformation being posted, reading crap from people that should get out of the business, or that should be accountable when they say something that effects a product or a person. If I haven't used something, I don't talk about it.

I'm on a mission to say ya... Prove it. Prove to me that you are able to walk the talk.
Look at Gearslutz now. What total joke of misinformation. The largest audio site in the world that appears to be more about adverting and being liked than accountability.
So... without going on. I don't need ads here. I don't care if I am the most loved or hated guy on the planet. I'm not here to stroke anyone. I'm here to learn. I am here to help people if I can. So I say, lets kick some ass. So I'm with you Kurt. I think we can do it kindly , not like Remy is displaying at all.

I don't think I can disagree with this in any way.

I have said all along that the disconnect is becoming very apparent in Remy's replies and the behavior is becoming more extreme by the day. Sorry, Remy, but its true. Yes, like Kurt, I have stopped reading the 4000 word posts which usually resolve into nothingness. I am always interested in things like her dissertation on tape alignment and technical things which I have no business commenting on. But these are becoming rare, and I wonder if its mostly because the technical side of the business has changed its face.

I am having to learn new ways. Its not easy when you're my age, but I'm doing it.

I am on the fence about feeling responsible to calling crap, crap. I think there's a way to do so without insulting the intelligence and motivation of someone trying really hard. Unfortunately I dont know what that is. I've lost more than several clients by not being able to keep my mouth shut when asked my opinion. But thats another story.

We, as a community, do have some responsibility towards others in that same community. Those that can accept guidance and instruction are those who stand a chance at succeeding in this dog-eat-dog business. But not everyone is like that. A lot of people come here to gain a sense of where they are at as far as accomplishment in their craft. Very few want to hear the truth. Its a pill not many will take without sugar water but who has that kind of smooth delivery here? I don't. Kurt certainly doesnt but at least he's not shy to admit it. And Remy.....its an alien world in there and somewhere all is broken I fear. BUT...just maybe it is the software she uses. Or the editor not reading her own blandishments about this and that.

Editing is a good thing these days. While I agree 129% with Chris about NO BS on the net, its a huge huge huge world and everyone has access no matter where they live. And then you have the language disconnect. Many newer posters here have English as a third language and the programs they use as a translator doesnt always get the context correct. And AGAIN, theres that little self-editor on break.........note to all:reread your posts before pushing to 'go' button.....

So where does that put us, as administrators, mods, regular contributors? How are we to KNOW with indisputable evidence of the circumstance surrounding a post? And what should be our credo in responding? Kindness? Callous disregard? Answers in vague terminology designed to be interpreted any way it can be? (my favorite)

Like Kurt said, it is up to Chris how this site is viewed. I support whatever direction it needs to take. I agree that 'other' sites have lost their punch and edge. I sometimes wonder if its just run its course, this discussion on recording gear in general? Because of the access to the world, and because of the access to affordable gear, and because of the access to questionable information which propagates itself rampantly, we are locked into a task which may never be achieved.

But being a light in the wilderness has always seemed like a warm place to run towards.

cheap gear and low talent go hand in hand.

Davedog, post: 402353 wrote: I don't think I can disagree with this in any way.

I am on the fence about feeling responsible to calling crap, crap. I think there's a way to do so without insulting the intelligence and motivation of someone trying really hard. Unfortunately I dont know what that is. I've lost more than several clients by not being able to keep my mouth shut when asked my opinion. But thats another story.

We, as a community, do have some responsibility towards others in that same community. Those that can accept guidance and instruction are those who stand a chance at succeeding in this dog-eat-dog business. But not everyone is like that. A lot of people come here to gain a sense of where they are at as far as accomplishment in their craft. Very few want to hear the truth. Its a pill not many will take without sugar water but who has that kind of smooth delivery here? I don't. Kurt certainly doesnt but at least he's not shy to admit it.

let's tell it like it is.

in the privacy of our own circle of fellow musicians in the studio or at band practice we all talk sh*t about other musicians. we get together with our band mates and fellow musician friends and make rude comments about other players and bands. it's a vicious business we are in.

here's where the hypocrisy comes into play. once we are in public, we tend to temper our comments, opinions and criticism. after all, we wouldn't want to offend now would we? it is a very middle class attitude, this "we must never be offensive" rule.

i'm from a working class background . i was born offensive. the fact that i exist is offensive. i have nothing to lose. so when i think something sucks, i say, "i think that sucks." i might be a "dick" but at least people really know what i'm thinking. at least i'm not a two faced bastard.

here's the quandary. while most the people who can afford to be in the studio business are middle classed or even very wealthy it's this very value system they hold so dear that has destroyed it.

10 or 15 years ago a rash of crap cheap equipment hit the market. a lot of it was designed and manufactured by people who were part of the elite inner circles like "Ferd Berfel".

in the back of our heads we all knew this stuff was crap made just to separate the rubes from their hard earned dollars ... a lot of this junk was marketed as being "state of the art" or "comparable to equipment costing ten times as much" ... but we all knew it was junk. at the same time, the studio and record business was crashing down around us due to our allowing our craft to be cheapened by inexpensive equipment run by self appointed "recording engineers" in home "studios".

we all stood by and let it slide in the interest of "politeness" or what ever other justification we could dream up just to avoid offending our "friends". look where it has gotten us. we were all better off when the price of admission was prohibitive and when there was a talent filter in place.

(smiling!) I agree that this is what began the change in the appearance of this business.

I don't think anyone anywhere has the power to deny anyone the right to try their hand at whatever endeavor they deem to be necessary in their lives. Its unfortunate that this business of recording ones material has no side effect when taken on by the untrained unlike other endeavors like mountain climbing or para-sailing....screwing up with things like that is a costly end....

As for me personally....I NEVER talk shit about anyone while standing around having a glass with the boys. Its unproductive and who the hell cares anyway.....Thats just me though....this bizness is filled with that sort of folk....unfortunately.

Also....here we are all these years later and the discussion nor the results have not changed.

If I could have 1983 to do all over I certainly would have chosen differently. Not sure what would be different here and now though...

RemyRAD, post: 402260 wrote: I can plainly tell you regardless of your equipment, whatever it is you are doing, doesn't work. Plug-in to ride the local levels? Are you kidding me? Yes the kids sounds exactly as you described and so does the recording. You obviously haven't taken quite enough singing lessons from Bob Dylan? So you got a nice hot rodded RME microphone preamp that sound decidedly better than whatever that piece of stuff is you are currently using. This is one of the thinnest, unflattering, crispy lackluster sound that I have trouble even calling sound. I'm so glad you're having such fun making such lousy sound. You'll go far that way. Just give them a list of your equipment and they'll know you're a genius because you sure fooled me. I was expecting something good? I don't know what I was thinking? And what is there to be gleaned from this? You can't possibly be hallucinating in thinking this is good? You did this just to be funny with your Behringer $100 investment level microphone and a mixer? Right?

Oh thank goodness... I thought you were serious there for a moment? I'm so vein... you got me good. Thank God you weren't serious. I mean if you were serious? I probably would've taken a handful of my barbiturate painkillers and washed it down with a nice bottle of scotch. In my suicide note, I'd hold you responsible. That's why no you just joking. I mean that was just about as funny as that commercial of that pretty girl singing in the studio from the control room perspective and then from the studio perspective. I like those kind of comedy demonstrations so I like yours also because it was one of the funniest I've heard in a long time. Neumann TLM-102... yeah that's a good one.

Nothing like having a good laugh before going to sleep.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Well, good points here. We all have our ways about us and reasons why we are still in the business. However, no matter what I do in life, I try and treat people equally and fairly. I talk to everyone the same, with respect. I have a long fuse and try and walk in the steps of others before attacking.

What I cannot tolerate is rudeness and disrespect. At this age in life, we should all have learned how to talk to people by now.

I want to say this too. I am directing this to Remy because she is the worst violator of off topic disruption I've known here.

We have created forums and categories for reason.

Members respect these categories and seek out a forum right for them and post in them. I think this promotes a really healthy circle of people. We rarely see newbies posting in the hybrid or Pro Audio gear forums. They know better. But Remy seems to think she is exempt.

Why is it that she feels it necessary to crash in an start ranting about how her crap is more important or all you need in forums that are clearly out of her price point, league or the appropriate content.

Its like she can't read or figure out where she belongs.
Now, yes its free speech but you know what Remy, I don't give a **** about how software is just as good in an analog discussion.

I told her off last week over this and she said, "some people can't afford this stuff you have Chris". Well you know what, Remy, I don't care or want to hear about how poor you are in a forum about high end analog gear and methods!
I created these forums for the people that can afford high end and who want to discuss concepts surrounded around the technologies. This is what I mean "turning it stupid".

No one that has committed to high end hybrid products cares what you think or wants to hear you go on and on and on and on and on about cheap crap you think is just as good or all you need. When you said this to me last week I though to myself, wow, why would a newbie be in that discussion in the first place. So how do you explain this? You feel it necessary sharing some rudimentary info just in case a newbie stumbles into a forum about high end analog gear?

Do you see what I'm talking about now? Its like you can't understand the forum dynamics and the right times to say things. You are all over the map here.

Where is your respect and sense of direction? I find your crashing in on topic terribly disrespectful, rude and disruptive.

There is a place for all the content here. We aren't going to start telling newbies in the home recording forums to go out and buy a Neve console are we, Remy?
man... do I hate having to be saying this over and over and over and over to you.

I've seen Remy have 3 styles. 1. Good technical info. 2. I wish it was 1975 3. You suck. I have zero problems with 1 or 2. As for the "you suck" one if your going to bring that to the table you better be tactful. If your going to call someone nigger in front of me you better be a hell of a lot bigger then me. I don't wait to pull them aside in secret I WANT to shame them.

I don't know how a person justifies treating people with disdain. Hence my question for Remy still stands.

As for the quality of Remy's work. I heard one clip were she did not use compression and was riding faders for a whole band. I was impressed! It wasn't modern but I am not here to dis anyone's preference. I need to be able to sound retro and like its 2013.

Paul999, post: 402366 wrote: If your going to call someone nigger in front of me you better be a hell of a lot bigger then me. I don't wait to pull them aside in secret I WANT to shame them.

I don't know how a person justifies treating people with disdain..

dis·dain
/disˈdān/
Noun The feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect; contempt.

Verb Consider to be unworthy of one's consideration.

Synonyms noun. contempt - scorn - disregard verb. despise - scorn - contemn - slight - misprize - disregard

as in; i really object to the use of that N word in any context. i disdain it's use.

i see no difference in either Remy's answer or you're response. she shamed him, you shamed her. but somehow, what you did was ok? your post was no better or worse than anything Remy has ever posted that skewed a thread off topic. you also made it about you with your remarks. look where this thread is going. in the end the result is sameo sameo. there's plenty of blame to go around. Remy's struggling on many levels, have a heart.

Critical Listening:
this is a business built on critical thinking, critical listening, and making critical decisions. we listen and make judgements, is this good, is it sh*t? what can be done to make it better? should i forget this idea and move on to something else? who would be the best session player to hire? it only follows that when listening to music we would be critical of it. it's how we are trained. it is also a curse. i find it very hard to just enjoy music without dissecting it and taking it apart.

How many producers does it take to change a light bulb? 10. 1 to actually do it and 9 to say "I could have done that better".

it sucked
i agree with Remy. i thought the ops recording sucked. on all levels. the song sucked, the playing sucked. the singing sucked and the recording sucked. if the purpose of the recording was to demo the equipment it did it no justice. i think they should be ashamed of themselves. if you thought it was so wonderful, you should have posted that and left Remy out of it. no need to call her out.

what ever the ops intention was i felt "disdain" for it. the op came here and made an offering. he should understand that chances are it will be critiqued. if a person does not want to be a subject of "disdain" they shouldn't foist their crap recordings on others. it better be good if you're going to put it on parade.

i come here to help people who are deserving and worthy. kids who have talent and have put some effort into this thing we all love. sometimes the best thing to do for someone is not encourage them if they don't have the talent. if a kid is easily deterred by some harsh criticism here they certainly do not have a thick enough skin to make it in music industry. sure, we may miss one once in a while ... someone who will end up doing something really good ... maybe a mega hit super star. those kids will say "they tried to discourage me but i said fu&k them ... nee neer - nee neer. and you know what? i'll be happy for them. but if someone says "you suck, go give yourself a swirly." and they take it to heart and quit, maybe it really isn't for them. the business is full of rejection ... they better get used to it. here's a good place to start.

imo it would be much better for all if these kind of things ended up over at GS and not here. don't waste my time with that kind of crap. that's 3 minutes of my life i will never get back. i'm sick of every wee wee, drippy, zit farm crappinig in the well screwing up things for everyone else. this guy needs to get a job at Wal Mart and give up ... it really sucked. i have NO problem with Remy said. it was spot on.

there are other issues that Chis has in play here and frankly i agree with a lot of it but i think this is Chris's sand box and Chris should deal with Remy if he has a problem with her. everyone else should keep the hell out of it. he has the keys and he really doesn't need any help, i know this to be true.

this whole thing looks to me like a "witch hunt" and it ain't pretty. i have serious reservations.

We aren't going to start telling newbies in the home recording forums to go out and buy a [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.rupertne…"]Neve[/]="http://www.rupertne…"]Neve[/] console are we

But aren't we, in a way doing just that?

I've seen the comments bounce from supporting newbie efforts and their low budget rigs, to that of sequestering the pros from the rooks by saying that it is all about the gear and unless you have a half million invested, then you are not truly a pro or worthy of discussing this craft of ours...

I respect Chris's opinions, as I do Kurt's, because they are pros, they have a history and years of experience to back up what they say. I don't always agree with what they say, but I sure respect it.

Remy's posts can be long-winded, no doubt.. but if you can hang in there and get through her version of War and Peace, often she provides valuable insight.

Was she wrong in her summation of the OP's audio content? In my opinion, no. I thought the sample was horrendous. Did she go out of bounds in her description? Yeah, maybe. I thought it was harsh and she should have reigned in the toxins in her post. There are ways to say things and then there are "ways" to say things. In my opinion she chose the wrong way, although I agree with the sentiment.

So perhaps a bit of diplomacy would be in order...

But then again, no one is here to encourage dreck, either.

There's so much of it out there right now, as Kurt has mentioned often, that someone needs to step up and say, "okay, enough. This is bad. Go back to square one and try again."
Because people won't learn to be better at what they do if they aren't told the truth. If they are surrounded by "yes" people, then they'll continue to produce garbage.

But by "diplomacy", I am not saying that we should always sugar-coat what we say to the extent that it encourages everyone to continue what they are doing, because, and on this Kurt and I do agree, not everyone is cut out for this craft.

Where Kurt and I diverge is that I personally don't believe it always has to do with the caliber of gear being used.
I've heard some pretty good sounding stuff come off of PT and Sonar rigs...and I've heard some pretty bad sounding stuff come some off of Neve's and SSL's.

If we are going to critique those that are producing garbage on entry level gear, then we'd better be honest enough to do the same with garbage coming off of high-end gear as well, and if you don't think this is accurate, I only need to point to the current level of "professional mastering" where loudness rules and dynamics and tone are completely disregarded. If you think I'm off base here, listen to the current Top 10.
At least half of it is squashed to unbelievable levels, disregarding all semblance of tone and dynamics... and this is stuff that is being mastered by "pro's" on very expensive gear.

We shouldn't be critiquing the rig, we should be critiquing the operator, because in the end, garbage is garbage and gold is gold, because regardless of what it was recorded, mixed or mastered on, in the end, the operator is the one to blame ...or credit.. as the case may be.

In my humble opinion, of course.
-d.

Donny, i think you have me wrong on this. some of my favorite recordings that i've made were done on tascam and fostex narrow gauge machines and mixed on yamaha pa mixers, fostex 450's (you know, the plastic ones?) or soundcraft spirits ... all pretty dismal stuff.

i mentioned on a different thread this afternoon how the first recording i ever made that i was impressed with was made with a rack mount phonic mixer a dat machine an alesis reverb and a old bi amp quad limiter. i mixed through some BIC Venturi speakers ...that recording still kicks ass.

equipment doesn't make a good record and equipment doesn't make a bad record. it does have a lot to do with what's recorded in the first place and then how it's recorded.

but i will say, the first time i got to cut some sides in a decent room with decent console and out board with decent mics and good talent was an eye opener for me .. a real "ahhh! now i get it!" moment. if someone can make good records with crap gear then they can make great records with great gear. good tools only make the task easier and therefore perhaps because it is easier we can be more productive and creative. at least one would hope.

i see no difference in either Remy's answer or you're response. she shamed him, you shamed her. but somehow, what you did was ok? your post was no better or worse than anything Remy has ever posted that skewed a thread off topic. you also made it about you with your remarks. look where this thread is going. in the end the result is sameo sameo. there's plenty of blame to go around. Remy's struggling on many levels, have a heart.

I understand your point and whole heatedly disagree. To me the thread was off the rails as soon as Remy treated this poster badly. At that point the thread ceases to be about hardware and becomes about one person bullying another. I do see a vast difference between shaming a person who put themselves on the line and shaming a person for bullying. In my judgement risking for personal growth should be encouraged and bullying needs to be shamed. I understand that you are not okay stepping in publicly when someone bully's another. I believe stepping to support a person who has been bullied is dignified and the right thing to do.

but i will say, the first time i got to cut some sides in a decent room with decent console and out board with decent mics and good talent was an eye opener for me .. a real "ahhh! now i get it!" moment. if someone can make good records with crap gear then they can make great records with great gear. good tools only make the task easier and therefore perhaps because it is easier we can be more productive and creative. at least one would hope

I couldn't agree more, brother.

And I wasn't really aiming anything at you other than I think we need to equal our criticisms to "professionally" recorded or mastered stuff that falls short as well as the rookie audio that does okay on what they have.

That being said, as I mentioned in my previous post, I am not a proponent for telling everyone that their audio is okay if it's not.

I believe in encouraging beginners, and understand that what they are working with today is probably the equivalent to what you and I started out on with our little Biamp mixers and those noisy Dokorders... knowing that very few beginners will have the money to start out with Focusrites, Pultechs, API's and U87's... they have to start somewhere, just like we did, so, they buy the M box, a Chinese condenser and a prog like Reaper.

Eventually, if they are serious about it, they will move up in caliber, just like we did, just as our money allowed us to.
And, if they are doing some things right with what they have, then they need encouraging to fix the things that they may be doing wrong.... is all I'm saying.

But... that doesn't mean that the critiques should be sugar coated. And a note to the newbies and rooks who post their audio:
You need a thick skin to swim in these waters. You need to accept the possibility that what you've done is crap, and when you are told it's crap, you need to fix the crap...LOL... at which point, it's up to you to either take the advice given, or ignore it and keep doing what you are doing. You've posted your audio here for one of two reasons:

1. Either you want everyone to stroke your ego and tell you that what you are doing is great, or,

2. You posted because you want an honest critique of what you are doing so that you can learn and adjust your methods and improve what you are doing.

If you are here for the first motivation, well, save your time. It says right on the topic's description to be prepared to get honest - and sometimes harsh - critiques. The pros here have years of experience and countless album and single releases to their credit, they've worked on the best gear there is... they've also started out on far less quality equipment and still produced good recordings. So don't show up trying to impress anyone.
The pros here have pretty much seen and done it all.

If you are here for the second reason then listen to what the pros tell you, take what's dished out, learn and adjust. Sometimes you will be told that what you are doing is good, great, fantastic. Other times, you'll be told that what you are doing sucks.

Because if you aren't told that what you are doing sucks, you'll keep producing audio that, well, sucks.

But...as an end note, I think that it shouldn't be narrowed down to just rooks... there's plenty of "pro" stuff that I think sucks, too. ;)

fwiw
-d.

excellent points Donny. i agree with all of that!

with all due respect Paul;

i may have not been so harsh but if i had heard that mess first, i would have told the guy it sucked on every level possible. i guess then you would have been all over me. well i don't need your approval on what i can or can't say here, just as the op doesn't need my approval to post that crap. you have your sensibilities and i have mine and i think that's ok but please don't think i'm going to let you shove your bourgeois values down my throat.

you can try to play the good guy by labelling her remarks as bullying and you posing as the good guy defender but i don't see it. that's a clever red flag to wave, current hot topic and a hell of a jacket to hang on someone. kinda like McCarthy yelling "Commie" or a neighbor screaming "paedophile". One thing Remy is not is a bully. She might be frustrated as hell with the business but she is not a bully. she has helped a lot of people here with good advice and information. for you to be so willing to jump on her like this with a mere 168 posts under your belt is inexcusable. who do you think you are? like i said, it's a "witch hunt" plain and simple, an inquisition and you are acting the part of Torquemada.

her post was sarcastic to a point but spot on. i'm weary of these spotty little drips dropping their turds in our yard.

Kurt- You were well articulated right up until calling me a spotty little drip. Your doing well at keeping new comers out of your sandbox.

Paul999, post: 402398 wrote: Kurt- You were well articulated right up until calling me a spotty little drip. Your doing well at keeping new comers out of your sandbox.

To be fair, I don't believe this is what he said, Paul. If you are taking it that way, as a personal afront, and that it was aimed at you, then you are continuing the argument on a personal level and are just as guilty as that which you propose to be wrong.

If you re-read his post, he did not say "Paul is a spotty little drip". He said, and has said many times before, that he was tired of newbies posting their lousy audio and then getting pissed off when they were critiqued and told the truth about how it sounded.

Donny- I see your point a believe your interpretation is correct. Thanks for the clarification. I'm cool with that.

I agree Paul 100%,

Remy has been warned and she isn't cluing in.

You guys may think its smart talking to people like this but I don't. Remy talks to people all the time like they are idiots. She's talked to me like this many times as well. And its not going to happen anymore. This isn't a witch hunt, Kurt. We are sick of this, period! She's using some kind of software to translate her words and that too isn't working here.
She also disrupts topics over and over. Donny , you may like it and think she is smart talking like this but I don't. I get lots of complaints. And this isn't about Sonar either.

Donny, take her over to your forum. Make my day.

She is done doing this here. I think her communication skills suck, how do we like that? Is this the way we want everyone here to talk?

Her style ain't funny. Its one mass bore and disturbing dribble.

Paul,
it's not my sandbox ... and i didn't call you a spotty drip. i was referring to these kids who can't sing play or record who post crap and run $10 per hour "studios" and drive studios like yours, mine and Remy's out of business.

to be honest, i checked your profile and i think you have pretty cool rig. i would bet your studio is just as nice. i do have respect for you but dude, have a heart! that brain tumour operation really took the wind out of Remys sails. they took a tumour out the size of a lemon ... it bankrupted her and due to the extended illness she lost her business contacts. people weren't going to wait until she recovered to do their projects. by the time she got back on her feet, the business had changed radically and she is left with a remote trailer, no business contacts and no jobs to speak of. she has expressed her desperation many times. all you have to do is pay attention to it. she is getting by selling off her beloved gear. how would you feel seeing a beloved Neve console going off to a snot nose hot shot because you have rent to pay? she really wants to work but she can't find any. she finds release here making posts and yes sometimes it gets off track

i don't think you have a grip on what it's like for us here in the states. where you come from, a life threatening illness isn't a guaranteed trip to bankruptcy court where you loose your house and all your property. i'm fighting the onset of diabetes but i can't go to the doctors because if i run up too much medical debt i will loose my home. if i loose my home i'm on the streets. i can't afford to rent an apartment. this house is all i have. so i am forced to try to control my disease with diet and by keeping active even though i feel like sh*t most of the time. i'm just hoping i can hang on long enough to get a reverse mortgage on my house or for Obama Care to kick in. I'm not sure i'm going to make it though. you guys in Canada have the luxury of free medical and medicine paid for by the state and a disability social net to keep you from going under financially. it's not like that here. get sick and the vultures begin to circle and it's a bitch to get disability.

to boot she is in the same boat i'm in which is approaching 60 and no will give us any significant work of any kind. she is frustrated by drippy little spots who have a computer, a cheap interface, an MXL mic pac and some beerslinger monitors who are taking away what work is left. add to that the musicians can't afford to record any more because the bars and venues don't pay ... it's just not a good time for those of us who have worked all our lives in studios. the owners and politicians crushed the unions so we don't have a soul in our corners .. it really sucks. no wonder we are telling these "spotty little drips" not to bother looking for jobs in the studio biz on one hand and then lashing out at them in frustration when they post such dreadful dreck ...

i've said what i have to say. i'm done with this thread.

Kurt, we all have problems in life and we aren't a hospital here.

Do we need a Caveat beside her or the word banned? I'm thinking banned.

I've made my decision.
She is done here. Thank you for your support.

This topic will self destruct shortly.

On a side note: Paul should be a moderator here.