Lelouch, post: 449650, member: 50238 wrote: If you hear me in person, I don't necessarily sound the way I'm being recorded by the 416. I find myself limited on how far I can go with my voice, since it can sound very bad on recording, even when it sounds really nice to my ears

This is common of every vocal performer, you are hearing your voice very differently than anybody else, including microphones.
The reason is, you are the only one hearing your voice through the room you are in but also through bones and internal ear. This is very missleading to anyone trying to sound natural when you can't hear yourself from outside of your head.

Also, there is no single mic that will record your voice like human ears can perceive it. Your two ears are grabing a 3d print of sounds a very unique way that is nearly impossible to replicate electronicly.
For what it's worth, the 416 maybe the most natural sounding mic for your voice, but voice over recording (specially for adds) is sometime aiming for an unnatural sound (with more bass and highs than normal). So some mic with those qualities will be chosen.

In the end, you can't sound like someone else. With a vocal coach you can enlarge the possibilities of your voice but the basic character will remain the same.
Some people have a very deep voice and others never will (regardless of the gear used)

Lelouch, post: 449650, member: 50238 wrote: but I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada ( The U.S. ), do you know any place where I could test out mics as you recommended ? I searched but didn't really find anything.

Really ??? There isn't any recording studio or music store in Las Vegas ???

pcrecord, post: 449658, member: 46460 wrote: Really ??? There isn't any recording studio or music store in Las Vegas ???

No kidding!
With the number of working musicians out there doing clubs and shows at casinos there HAS to be at least one music store that carries the mics you want to try. GC at the very least.
Google is your friend here.

pcrecord, post: 449658, member: 46460 wrote: Really ??? There isn't any recording studio or music store in Las Vegas ???

DonnyThompson, post: 449659, member: 46114 wrote: No kidding!
With the number of working musicians out there doing clubs and shows at casinos there HAS to be at least one music store that carries the mics you want to try. GC at the very least.

I sent GC a message yesterday asking if they allowed people to try out the mics, still waiting for a reply. And sure, there are lots of studios, I just couldn't find them in a quick google search. But I'll try again.

pcrecord, post: 449658, member: 46460 wrote: This is common of every vocal performer, you are hearing your voice very differently than anybody else, including microphones.

The reason is, you are the only one hearing your voice through the room you are in but also through bones and internal ear. This is very missleading to anyone trying to sound natural when you can't hear yourself from outside of your head.

I understand this, I'v had plenty of choir performances recorded, and even back with the MXL . What I mean is that performances I could give on the MXL and sounded good, isn't how it works for the 416, and vice versa. With these two microphones, I had to adapt my voice for the mic. When I got the MXL, I wrote it off simply as this is what I sound like on microphones. But when I got this one, I could still sound good using parts of my voice that sounded weird and unnatural before.

Idk, I'm not an expert obviously, and it could all be in my head. So I'm trying to go out and try out different mics soon.

DonnyThompson, post: 449654, member: 46114 wrote: like Sweetwater or GC - and then, if you don't like the way it sounds on your voice - and in your studio on your gear - sending it back for another model to try. Just keep it pristine (use a pop filter, don't have it in an environment where people smoke, don't drink a sugary beverage and then sing into it, etc) so you won't run into hassles when you go to return it. Basically, it's just common sense ...Don't give them any reason to deny the return. Keep ALL packaging materials, and pack it up exactly as it came to you.

That's what I'v done with the MXL, and possibly this 416. Thanks for the advice ^-^

Wanted to say that I was driving today, and I passed a GC, so I stopped by. They let me test out the microphones, but I only tested 2 since I didn't have much time. I'm planning to go back next week hopefully. Anyway, I tried out the TLM 103, and the SM7B ( as recommended by someone here ). The 103 sounded REALLY good. But they had nice studio monitors, and I couldn't really know how the thing would sound in my recording space. So I plan to bring my 416 there and test it out as well to see what it sounds like over there. The SM7B didn't sound bad when I was doing more of a commercial voice, but it didn't sound really good otherwise.. And didn't sound as good as the 103 in general. Anyway, that's it. I'll go back next Saturday ( Probably ) with my 416 and test out again. Thanks for the advice

Just because a mic doesn't sound good in your space through your own monitoring doesn't mean it still doesn't sound good.
At some point you'll need to get into a pair of monitors that are accurate and that you can trust to be sure that what you hear in your room will sound good and translate to other systems as well.
If you are testing mics at GC through good monitors, you should probably trust that scenario more, if your own room and monitors lack accuracy.
Both models are fine mics. The SM7 is a dynamic mic and will require a mic pre with a minimum gain of 60db.... minimum.
The 103 is a condenser and therefore gets its power from the 48v phantom power on your preamp. It does not require as much gain, but will be far more sensitive to extraneous sounds, including things like computer fans, as well as picking up more sound reflections in your recording space.
FWIW

DonnyThompson, post: 449706, member: 46114 wrote: Just because a mic doesn't sound good in your space through your own monitoring doesn't mean it still doesn't sound good.
At some point you'll need to get into a pair of monitors that are accurate and that you can trust to be sure that what you hear in your room will sound good and translate to other systems as well.
If you are testing mics at GC through good monitors, you should probably trust that scenario more, if your own room and monitors lack accuracy.
Both models are fine mics. The SM7 is a dynamic mic and will require a mic pre with a minimum gain of 60db.... minimum.
The 103 is a condenser and therefore gets its power from the 48v phantom power on your preamp. It does not require as much gain, but will be far more sensitive to extraneous sounds, including things like computer fans, as well as picking up more sound reflections in your recording space.
FWIW

Yea , I tested the mics at GC , had a nice pair of studio monitors in there . Which is why I wanna bring my 416, to compare what it sounds like in there to my recording space . The only reason I'm so hesitant of the TLM 103, is that it'll pick up my recording space more . I can always put more, thicker layers, to stop reflections, the laptop is the only problem . But I think I can solve it by connecting a TV/Keyboard/Mouse to my laptop and keep them inside , while the laptop stays out side . So I'll experiment and figure things out , but I just can't get over the way the 103 sounded . It was really nice , just hope it'll sound that way in my recording space !

DonnyThompson, post: 449706, member: 46114 wrote: At some point you'll need to get into a pair of monitors that are accurate and that you can trust to be sure that what you hear in your room will sound good and translate to other systems as well.

On that topic, anyone here want to sell me a nice pair xD ? Anyway, what kind of cheap studio monitors would you guys recommend ? I'd like it to be under $100, but I understand that's probably asking to much for even decent studio monitors. So if there aren't good choices in that range, give me some other options and I'll save up for them. Thanks !

Lelouch, post: 449705, member: 50238 wrote: But they had nice studio monitors, and I couldn't really know how the thing would sound in my recording space.

What is important is how your recordings will sound anywhere. it's true that if you can't here it well at home, you won't hear it if something is wrong. So as Donny said, you'll need to deal with that eventually. (we told you many times already so I'm sure you get it. ) What you can also do is to bring your very known headphones to the store and have a listen on those as well has on studio monitors.

Lelouch, post: 449705, member: 50238 wrote: So I plan to bring my 416 there and test it out as well to see what it sounds like over there.

That's the best idea !

Lelouch, post: 449716, member: 50238 wrote: I'd like it to be under $100, but I understand that's probably asking to much for even decent studio monitors.

Most ok budget studio monitors will be sold at 300$ and more each. I doubt someone will give away a +600$ pair at 100$ unless they are defective.

Look for the Yamaha, they are not the best but very good for the price. I use the HS8 and I'm very happy with them.

Lelouch, post: 449716, member: 50238 wrote: I'd like it to be under $100, but I understand that's probably asking to much for even decent studio monitors. So if there aren't good choices in that range, give me some other options and I'll save up for them. Thanks !

Yeah, that's not gonna happen, ( unless you stumble upon the deal of the century on eBay or something). I'm not saying it's completely impossible, but it's highly improbable, at least not for anything considered to be "decent"... pro-spec monitors such as Adams, Focals, Genelecs and Dynaudio can easily reach up to the $1000 range... each.

As Marco mentioned, Yamaha's would be a good choice, as would JBL's and Presonus Eris's. Obviously you'll need an active monitor if you don't have a power amp, so active monitors are where you should look.

Here are a few choices in the "budget range". They're not what pro's would use, but they'd be better than what you have now.
Because of their small woofer ( 5"), neither of these will reach down much below 60Hz, but that shouldn't concern you anyway, if you're planning on doing just VO's, as your voice won't have frequencies to reproduce that low anyway.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/STUDIO50USB

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Elevate5

This is probably as cheap as you're going to get for new models. You might be able to find something cheaper on eBay, but at that point, you are taking the chance of inheriting someone Else's potential problems.
The reason I mention this is is because, by and large, used "pro" level gear is sold by pro's, who have invested money into their gear, so it's usually a good bet that whatever you buy from a pro guy has been taken care of and is going to be in good shape, as opposed to cheap gear, which is often used ( and misused) in damp basements, hot attics, or who have kids with peanut butter and jelly hands playing around with the stuff.
The owners don't have much invested in it, so they don't care as much about keeping it in good condition. I've seen it countless times in my travels as a home studio consultant. It's unfortunate, but typical.

FWIW

DonnyThompson, post: 449721, member: 46114 wrote: Here are a few choices in the "budget range". They're not what pro's would use, but they'd be better than what you have now.
Because of their small woofer ( 5"), neither of these will reach down much below 60Hz, but that shouldn't concern you anyway, if you're planning on doing just VO's, as your voice won't have frequencies to reproduce that low anyway.

pcrecord, post: 449718, member: 46460 wrote: What is important is how your recordings will sound anywhere. it's true that if you can't here it well at home, you won't hear it if something is wrong. So as Donny said, you'll need to deal with that eventually. (we told you many times already so I'm sure you get it. ) What you can also do is to bring your very known headphones to the store and have a listen on those as well has on studio monitors.

That's the best idea !

Most ok budget studio monitors will be sold at 300$ and more each. I doubt someone will give away a +600$ pair at 100$ unless they are defective.

Look for the Yamaha, they are not the best but very good for the price. I use the HS8 and I'm very happy with them.

Thanks guys, I actually went there today with my microphone. Was lucky enough to have the time and I tested out my 416 in their room. I didn't know what to expect to hear from it. Anyway, it only reaffirmed that the mic isn't really the best for me. My voice was great when I went for a commercial read. But otherwise it just didn't feel right. And I understand I sound biased towards the TLM 103, but I tried it again and it was just great. My voice was just captured really nicely. I also tried out a cheaper $300-400 mic, the AKG C214. That one sounded nice too, but not as good ( I was told by them that the AKG C314 would be better to try and compare with the 103 ). Anyway, I'm going to try and fit a pair of studio monitors that you recommended in the budget when I replace my current mic with the TLM 103. So I'v pretty much made up my mind on the 103, so I'll have to mess around with my recording space to make sure it'll be good for it. Thanks for the help and the links.

https://www.sweetwa…

https://www.sweetwa…

Speaking of the links though, they are only a dollar apart in price, so which one would you guys recommend most ? Or are they pretty much the same and wont make a difference ?

I haven't tried any of them but I kinda thrust Alesis more..

pcrecord, post: 449740, member: 46460 wrote: I haven't tried any of them but I kinda thrust Alesis more..

Thanks, if I by some stroke of luck am able to afford it right now, I'll make sure I do.

Considering that they are very close in price, before you make your final decision on the 103, you may also want to try out an AKG 414.
The 414 is an industry standard, found in every pro studio around the world, and is used for a multitude of applications, from voice to drum overheads, and everything in between.
It also has a 5-pattern selector switch - Omni, wide cardioid, cardioid, hypercardioid, and figure eight, so it can be used in countless recording applications.
I'm not trying to talk you out of the 103, it's a fine mic... but you should at least try the 414 before you make your final choice.

IMHO.

DonnyThompson, post: 449798, member: 46114 wrote: Considering that they are very close in price, before you make your final decision on the 103, you may also want to try out an AKG 414.
The 414 is an industry standard, found in every pro studio around the world, and is used for a multitude of applications, from voice to drum overheads, and everything in between.
It also has a 5-pattern selector switch - Omni, wide cardioid, cardioid, hypercardioid, and figure eight, so it can be used in countless recording applications.
I'm not trying to talk you out of the 103, it's a fine mic... but you should at least try the 414 before you make your final choice.

IMHO.

I heard about that mic, but they didn't have it at GC. And I don't know where a studio would have it ( I'v contacted several and only one ever replied to me about what kind of mics they have ) . The best I can do is listen to the 414 and 103 side by side online, which I realize wouldn't be nearly as well as testing it out. But thanks a lot for the recommendation.

Lelouch, post: 449801, member: 50238 wrote: The best I can do is listen to the 414 and 103 side by side online,

That's the worst thing to do.. don't set yourself for deception again..

Took me 5 min of googling to find this studio in Las vegas.
They have both the TLM 103 and 414 and many others.. Book an hour or two to try many mics and bring back the results home. Listen to them on many systems and then decide wisely
http://thetonefactory.com/gear

Lelouch, post: 449801, member: 50238 wrote: The best I can do is listen to the 414 and 103 side by side online, which I realize wouldn't be nearly as well as testi

Have you learned nothing?
What good will it do for you to listen to someone else's voice on a mic? Especially through the sonic limitations of YouTube?
The whole point in you trying mics was to find one that sounded good for your voice.
How much could it possibly cost you to book one hour at the studio that Marco (pcrecord ) found for you? $25, $35, maybe $45? (I'm betting his google search took less than 5 minutes, by the way... something you could have easily done for yourself. )
And, if by chance you did end up liking the 414 more, or even liking it just as much as the 103 -even including the cost of the studio time, you'll still get out cheaper than the cost of the 103.
And, okay, so maybe the 103 does turn out to be your best choice... but for around $25-$40, or so, you've bought yourself an hour in a pro studio, and had a chance to listen to your voice through a variety of pro mics and through nice monitors in an acoustically balanced environment... and, the peace of mind knowing you made the right choice comparing it to other pro mics the studio has...
Or....you can keep reverting back to doing it "your way".
But ...the times you've taken the advice of the pros here on RO who have tried several times to help you, you've benefitted. Whether you realize it or not, Marco has taken his own valuable time and expertise to try to help you down the right road. Had there been anything he told you -or tried to tell you - that didn't benefit you?
And the times you did things your own way? well...
I'm gonna bow out of this thread now. I do wish you luck in your endeavors.
-donny

DonnyThompson, post: 449810, member: 46114 wrote: Have you learned nothing?
What good will it do for you to listen to someone else's voice on a mic? Especially through the sonic limitations of YouTube?
The whole point in you trying mics was to find one that sounded good for your voice.
How much could it possibly cost you to book one hour at the studio that Marco (pcrecord ) found for you? $25, $35, maybe $45? (I'm betting his google search took less than 5 minutes, by the way... something you could have easily done for yourself. )
And, if by chance you did end up liking the 414 more, or even liking it just as much as the 103 -even including the cost of the studio time, you'll still get out cheaper than the cost of the 103.
And, okay, so maybe the 103 does turn out to be your best choice... but for around $25-$40, or so, you've bought yourself an hour in a pro studio, and had a chance to listen to your voice through a variety of pro mics and through nice monitors in an acoustically balanced environment... and, the peace of mind knowing you made the right choice comparing it to other pro mics the studio has...
Or....you can keep reverting back to doing it "your way".
But ...the times you've taken the advice of the pros here on RO who have tried several times to help you, you've benefitted. Whether you realize it or not, Marco has taken his own valuable time and expertise to try to help you down the right road. Had there been anything he told you -or tried to tell you - that didn't benefit you?
And the times you did things your own way? well...
I'm gonna bow out of this thread now. I do wish you luck in your endeavors.
-donny

I can see that I'v greatly disappointed you. I'd appreciate it if you still stayed in the thread and gave your opinions, but I understand if your done. And this isn't " my way ". I'm no pro, not even close. Anything you guys say I accept it as law. But I CAN'T do things sometimes. I know something as simple as going to a studio and spending a few bucks doesn't sound like anything big, but it can be hard to do at times. I got lucky with GC, I literally passed right by it driving, and I stopped by for a little while to test out mics. Then knew I'd pass by it the next day and I brought my own mic. The studio pcrecord recommended is about 15 miles away if I drive an overall 30 minutes, 10-20 of them being on a highway. Anyway, sorry, I can see why it seemed like " i learned nothing ", but I was simply stating one of my only options.

DonnyThompson, post: 449810, member: 46114 wrote: Whether you realize it or not, Marco has taken his own valuable time and expertise to try to help you down the right road. Had there been anything he told you -or tried to tell you - that didn't benefit you?

I greatly appreciate and value the fact that he takes time out to help me. The fact that he's stuck with me through this amazes me, and I feel indebted to him really .

pcrecord, post: 449802, member: 46460 wrote: That's the worst thing to do.. don't set yourself for deception again..

Took me 5 min of googling to find this studio in Las vegas.
They have both the TLM 103 and 414 and many others.. Book an hour or two to try many mics and bring back the results home. Listen to them on many systems and then decide wisely
http://thetonefactory.com/gear

Thanks for helping. That studio is pretty far, but I will look for ones that are close and have the 414. No guarantees.. But I WILL try. I'm sure you don't wanna hear about my personal life, so I'm not saying why, but there are very real obstacles. Thanks again for helping, and taking the time to search up a studio for me, I greatly appreciate it.

Lelouch, post: 449826, member: 50238 wrote: but there are very real obstacles.

I apologize. It was presumptuous of me to assume things were convenient for you.
It's true that I don't know what obstacles you face, and it was wrong of me to assume that doing certain things would be easy for you based upon my own ability to do so.

I also understand that money isn't readily available for many people to immediately pull the trigger on the things they need. Believe me, I understand that.
I think that Marco and I were just frustrated, because it seemed like you were reverting back to what we told you to avoid doing.

Buying a good mic - be it a condenser, dynamic or ribbon - is an investment; and when treated with care, it will last you a lifetime. It may not be the only mic you ever buy, but choosing this first initial "right one for your voice" is important; much moreso than what YouTube could ever be able tell you. You need to hear your voice on the mic. Hearing someone else's voice - particularly on a YouTube video, where the audio quality might be skewed due to resolution - is not what you should be using in making this decision.

In the line of work you want to do, there are several things that are very important: The mic is only one of these things (as is a really good, solid mic stand and pop filter).

The quality of the preamp and converters you use, the acoustics and isolation of the environment you are recording in, and having an accurate monitoring system are also crucial.

Mac or PC? Makes no difference. The DAW program you use? Also will make no difference, other than choosing one that is easy for you to get to know in depth.
Choose a digital recording platform that is user-friendly and that you can learn in depth. You don't "need" Pro Tools, or Samplitude, or any other DAW that is loaded for bear and which has features you will end up paying for but will never use.

Forget all the "bells and whistles" plug-ins. With the possible exception of a de-esser, ( which controls sibilance) you don't need them. Pay no attention to things like "vocal processing" plugs, nor should you care about recreating a "vintage" sound.
There isn't one DAW system out there these days who's "stock" EQ's and Compressors won't suffice just fine for what you are doing, as long as your mic and preamp are of good quality.

Remember that you will be competing for work with other VO performers who take what they do very seriously, who do have professional mics, gain-chains, conversion, and good-sounding rooms. It's already a very competitive biz, so you need to load your gun with the right ammo. Pay attention to the things that are going to really matter (as mentioned above) and don't get hung up on the "window dressing" stuff.

On that note, whichever recording platform you end up using, start practicing your editing chops.
Practice with a vocal track that runs long; say 1:05 that's supposed to be 1:00. Learn how to edit in a way that is fluid and smooth, that doesn't upset the flow of the track. Avoiding "clunky" edits, or edits that are obvious.

Your voice and your ability to perform scripts well is also really important.
Get online and look for possible instruction on voice acting. The more you can do, the better chances you are giving yourself to get work.

Don't be a "one-trick pony". Don LaFontaine was an exception to every rule. He found his niche doing movie trailers, but ... you ain't him - lol - and nobody else is either - so don't try to be. ;)

Have a vocal "trick bag" that you can pull out of several different styles. So ... maybe you're not Mel Blanc, who could do hundreds of different character voices - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't work on a "poignant" voice, or a happy voice, a sad voice, or even voices with different dialects, like British accents ( of which there are many) or a "southern" voice (of which there are also many).

Have a "corporate voice". I made quite a bit of money doing VO's for business presentations, employee orientation tapes, even audio for video medical presentations.
(I had no idea what I was saying with those medical VO's, but that wasn't the point... I acted like I did. To be truly successful in VO's, you have to be able to act. You're an actor. Start saying that out loud. Get used to it.)

The one thing you do have at your fingertips -and what many of us here didn't have when we were starting out - is the information superhighway. The Internet can have its share of misleading information, but there is a lot of accurate, helpful info out there, too... you've found that out yourself by looking to RO for answers.

You are coming up in audio during a very exciting time. Technology is giving us amazing tools at what seems like light-speed. But there's a lot of trash out there, too. Learn to do research about the things that pertain to you.

Read through our glossary of terms here on RO, this will help you begin to "speak the language" of the craft. If there's a term or process you don't quite understand, and you've tried to find the answers yourself but are still confused, then ask us. I promise you, no one is going to bite your head off if you need more understanding on something like mic types, placement, EQ or Gain Reduction. But, try to learn on your own first.
RO has a vibe to it if being a "problem-based-learning" (PBL) environment. Solving problems is important, but learning from them is even more so in the long run.

Finally - If you love the sound of your voice through the 103, then just get it. I was simply trying to give you another high quality condenser mic to consider as an option.
I will say that I'm still not entirely sure that you shouldn't be looking at a good dynamic mic instead of a condenser - like a Shure SM7B - not only because it sounds awesome, but also because it has great rejection of extraneous room sounds and other anomalies that can so often occur in a home recording environment.

I know you were going by what the guy said in the first initial YouTube video you posted - but the second I saw that bonehead speaking from 4' off the dynamic mic he was using, and then using that as the main reason to not use one, my eyes rolled so far back into my head I could see behind me. :rolleyes:
Be it Dynamic or Condenser, NOBODY records VO's that way, regardless of the type of mic they are using.

Hope this helps.
-d.

DonnyThompson, post: 449828, member: 46114 wrote: I apologize. It was presumptuous of me to assume things were convenient for you.
It's true that I don't know what obstacles you face, and it was wrong of me to assume that doing certain things would be easy for you based upon my own ability to do so.

I also understand that money isn't readily available for many people to immediately pull the trigger on the things they need. Believe me, I understand that.
I think that Marco and I were just frustrated, because it seemed like you were reverting back to what we told you to avoid doing.

It's totally fine ^-^. Thanks for coming back .

DonnyThompson, post: 449828, member: 46114 wrote: Buying a good mic - be it a condenser, dynamic or ribbon - is an investment; and when treated with care, it will last you a lifetime. It may not be the only mic you ever buy, but choosing this first initial "right one for your voice" is important; much moreso than what YouTube could ever be able tell you. You need to hear your voice on the mic. Hearing someone else's voice - particularly on a YouTube video, where the audio quality might be skewed due to resolution - is not what you should be using in making this decision.

In the line of work you want to do, there are several things that are very important: The mic is only one of these things (as is a really good, solid mic stand and pop filter).

The quality of the preamp and converters you use, the acoustics and isolation of the environment you are recording in, and having an accurate monitoring system are also crucial.

Mac or PC? Makes no difference. The DAW program you use? Also will make no difference, other than choosing one that is easy for you to get to know in depth.
Choose a digital recording platform that is user-friendly and that you can learn in depth. You don't "need" Pro Tools, or Samplitude, or any other DAW that is loaded for bear and which has features you will end up paying for but will never use.

Forget all the "bells and whistles" plug-ins. With the possible exception of a de-esser, ( which controls sibilance) you don't need them. Pay no attention to things like "vocal processing" plugs, nor should you care about recreating a "vintage" sound.
There isn't one DAW system out there these days who's "stock" EQ's and Compressors won't suffice just fine for what you are doing, as long as your mic and preamp are of good quality.

Remember that you will be competing for work with other VO performers who take what they do very seriously, who do have professional mics, gain-chains, conversion, and good-sounding rooms. It's already a very competitive biz, so you need to load your gun with the right ammo. Pay attention to the things that are going to really matter (as mentioned above) and don't get hung up on the "window dressing" stuff.

On that note, whichever recording platform you end up using, start practicing your editing chops.
Practice with a vocal track that runs long; say 1:05 that's supposed to be 1:00. Learn how to edit in a way that is fluid and smooth, that doesn't upset the flow of the track. Avoiding "clunky" edits, or edits that are obvious.

Your voice and your ability to perform scripts well is also really important.
Get online and look for possible instruction on voice acting. The more you can do, the better chances you are giving yourself to get work.

Don't be a "one-trick pony". Don LaFontaine was an exception to every rule. He found his niche doing movie trailers, but ... you ain't him - lol - and nobody else is either - so don't try to be. ;)

Have a vocal "trick bag" that you can pull out of several different styles. So ... maybe you're not Mel Blanc, who could do hundreds of different character voices - but that doesn't mean you shouldn't work on a "poignant" voice, or a happy voice, a sad voice, or even voices with different dialects, like British accents ( of which there are many) or a "southern" voice (of which there are also many).

Have a "corporate voice". I made quite a bit of money doing VO's for business presentations, employee orientation tapes, even audio for video medical presentations.
(I had no idea what I was saying with those medical VO's, but that wasn't the point... I acted like I did. To be truly successful in VO's, you have to be able to act. You're an actor. Start saying that out loud. Get used to it.)

The one thing you do have at your fingertips -and what many of us here didn't have when we were starting out - is the information superhighway. The Internet can have its share of misleading information, but there is a lot of accurate, helpful info out there, too... you've found that out yourself by looking to RO for answers.

You are coming up in audio during a very exciting time. Technology is giving us amazing tools at what seems like light-speed. But there's a lot of trash out there, too. Learn to do research about the things that pertain to you.

Read through our glossary of terms here on RO, this will help you begin to "speak the language" of the craft. If there's a term or process you don't quite understand, and you've tried to find the answers yourself but are still confused, then ask us. I promise you, no one is going to bite your head off if you need more understanding on something like mic types, placement, EQ or Gain Reduction. But, try to learn on your own first.
RO has a vibe to it if being a "problem-based-learning" (PBL) environment. Solving problems is important, but learning from them is even more so in the long run.

Finally - If you love the sound of your voice through the 103, then just get it. I was simply trying to give you another high quality condenser mic to consider as an option.

Thanks for the advice, I read through it a couple of times and have taken it to heart.

DonnyThompson, post: 449828, member: 46114 wrote: I will say that I'm still not entirely sure that you shouldn't be looking at a good dynamic mic instead of a condenser - like a Shure SM7B - not only because it sounds awesome, but also because it has great rejection of extraneous room sounds and other anomalies that can so often occur in a home recording environment.

I know you were going by what the guy said in the first initial YouTube video you posted - but the second I saw that bonehead speaking from 4' off the dynamic mic he was using, and then using that as the main reason to not use one, my eyes rolled so far back into my head I could see behind me. :rolleyes:
Be it Dynamic or Condenser, NOBODY records VO's that way, regardless of the type of mic they are using.

I don't know about other dynamic mics, but the SM7B had a vibe that I should be on the radio, and didn't really fit me. Also, my room registers under -60dB. I'v taken my laptop out of the room, and have it connected to the inside of the studio through several wires, so I'v now gotten rid of the fan noise, and the room is nice and quiet. The guy was speaking 4' from the mic ? As in 4 feet ( when ? ) ??

DonnyThompson, post: 449828, member: 46114 wrote: Hope this helps.
-d.

It has helped, a lot. Thanks for the post !

Well, this has nothing to do with mixing and all that, but it's pretty important. I have my character/commercial demos ( I uploaded if you wanna hear ), they may make me sound like a " one trick pony ", but this mic has been limiting me on what I can do and sound good doing. Ever since I finished them, I'v been going on site after site, day after day, registering and uploading. I'm not getting any attention obviously, and was hoping if there was any advice you guys could provide. Including getting an agent, which I realize they wont want to take on someone they don't feel lives up to a certain standard. Any help and advice is appreciated, thanks !

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Attached files Character Demo.mp3 (2.3 MB)  Commercial Demo.mp3 (2 MB) 

The mic you use has nothing to do with who you are, what you do, or how well you do what you do.
Stop thinking that a $1000 mic is going to automatically make your performances better. The fidelity may be improved, it might sound better sonically, but it won't do a thing to improve you as a voice actor. Thats like saying that a better quality guitar cable will make a better guitar player. James Earl Jones is gonna be a great voice actor, whether he speaks into a Neumann U87 or a Shure SM57.

Voices
You don't need to be able to do hundreds of voices to succeed in this biz. But you do need to be able to fit the mood of what you are reading.
Truthfully, the current sonic fidelity you are getting is not bad at all. Sure, you can always get better gear, but the best mic in the world won't affect how you perform.
I've said it previously, I'll say it again - Lessons. Voice acting instruction can help you do things you never thought of... things like adding a pause, being able to "break" your voice for effect, how to laugh, chuckle, even how to smile or frown while reading script - because both of those things can actually be heard in a performance ...if you know how.
Lessons can teach you how to do a "conversational" performance... which would come in handy if you get a gig with another voice actor (two friends, man and wife, boss-employee) ... Instruction can also help you break habits you've picked up on - that you perhaps don't even know you have developed. In your case, a majority of the time -at least in what you've posted here - you "drop" the pitch of the last word in a phrase or sentence, and while that may be acceptable to a client occasionally, it's not something you're gonna wanna do every time you read a script or ad copy.
You may want to look at this :
http://www.vo101.com/online.html
I'm Not endorsing this... I just pulled it up doing a google search. But perhaps it's a move in the right direction.

FWIW

DonnyThompson, post: 449848, member: 46114 wrote: The mic you use has nothing to do with who you are, what you do, or how well you do what you do.
Stop thinking that a $1000 mic is going to automatically make your performances better. The fidelity may be improved, it might sound better sonically, but it won't do a thing to improve you as a voice actor. Thats like saying that a better quality guitar cable will make a better guitar player. James Earl Jones is gonna be a great voice actor, whether he speaks into a Neumann U87 or a Shure SM57.

Well, the one I'm using now ( the MKH 416 ) is a $1000 mic. And the day I got it, I started recording, and was surprised. I'm not sure if you heard the " Frenchdown " recording I did, but I use a different style of voice. It was nice, I got a compliment from Marco/pcrecord. When I tried to do it again with my current mic, my voice sounded unnatural. I figured that maybe it was because the voice WAS unnatural, but testing it out on the TLM 103, it sounded just like it should have.

But your right, I do need to work on my own my own ability.

DonnyThompson, post: 449848, member: 46114 wrote: Voices
You don't need to be able to do hundreds of voices to succeed in this biz. But you do need to be able to fit the mood of what you are reading.
Truthfully, the current sonic fidelity you are getting is not bad at all. Sure, you can always get better gear, but the best mic in the world won't affect how you perform.
I've said it previously, I'll say it again - Lessons. Voice acting instruction can help you do things you never thought of... things like adding a pause, being able to "break" your voice for effect, how to laugh, chuckle, even how to smile or frown while reading script - because both of those things can actually be heard in a performance ...if you know how.
Lessons can teach you how to do a "conversational" performance... which would come in handy if you get a gig with another voice actor (two friends, man and wife, boss-employee) ... Instruction can also help you break habits you've picked up on - that you perhaps don't even know you have developed. In your case, a majority of the time -at least in what you've posted here - you "drop" the pitch of the last word in a phrase or sentence, and while that may be acceptable to a client occasionally, it's not something you're gonna wanna do every time you read a script or ad copy.
You may want to look at this :
http://www.vo101.com/online.html
I'm Not endorsing this... I just pulled it up doing a google search. But perhaps it's a move in the right direction.

I listened back to my performances, and your right, I do drop my pitch on the last word of my phrases, didn't really notice ( which promotes the fact that I need lessons ). I'll make sure to look for where to get lessons like that, and then I'll make sure to take them when I can. And thanks for the link, I checked it out and I don't feel like I should throw down with those guys, so I'll look around myself. Thanks for all the help ^-^

Well, tomorrow I will be returning this mic. And it may take a while to get the new one. As soon as the new one arrives, I will record with it and upload an audio sample for you guys. Thanks for all the help guys.

Hey guys, I'm back with a quick question. I've done my own research and all, and I'm not gonna buy any mic other then the 103 since I've actually tested it, but I'm curious about your opinions. Anyway, I was looking at Batman Arkham City behind the scenes ( Cause I love it ), and I saw the microphones being used. After about half an hour of comparing the backs of microphones ! I saw that they were using the TLM 170 . I looked around, and I can see that the mics in the TLM series only have their transformer-less nature in common for the most part. But in comparison between the 103 and 170, which one is the "better" microphone for voice over and such. And I use quotes because I very much realize that's a stupid question since what's good depends on the voice of the person behind the mic, but I don't know how else to phrase my question. Thanks for any advice !

Yes, the TLM170 is better than the 103, so is the U87 and 100 other mics... But they are more than 3k $
At this point I thought you would have realise that a sound engineer will always try to pic the best gear for the source (among what he/she have available) and not because one is said to be better or more expensive.

I have a lot of mic to choose from. This weekend I had a band playing live in my studio. I picked an SM58 for the signer because I wanted to reduce bleeding from the other instruments. A 100$ mic but in a near 2k preamp and 1k converter ....

You should stop listening to youtube to choose gear and start choosing by ear. You'll save a ton of money in the end.

pcrecord, post: 450229, member: 46460 wrote: Yes, the TLM170 is better than the 103, so is the U87 and 100 other mics... But they are more than 3k $
At this point I thought you would have realise that a sound engineer will always try to pic the best gear for the source (among what he/she have available) and not because one is said to be better or more expensive.

I have a lot of mic to choose from. This weekend I had a band playing live in my studio. I picked an SM58 for the signer because I wanted to reduce bleeding from the other instruments. A 100$ mic but in a near 2k preamp and 1k converter ....

You should stop listening to youtube to choose gear and start choosing by ear. You'll save a ton of money in the end.

I was just asking out of curiosity, which is why I said I know that what's " better " is more dependent on the person behind the mic. Sorry if it seemed like I was looking at gear on youtube, I was actually just looking at the behind the scenes footage for Batman Arkham City for personal reasons, and it happened to show the mics, and I got a little curious. Thanks for the information !

So I've been getting measurements and trying to work out how to get the studio monitors in the room. While there's space for them, the problem is that they'll be less then a foot apart from each other, while being about 5 feet away from me. I heard that the positions of the monitors and you should create an equilateral triangle, so that the distance from one monitor to the other, is the same distance as each one of them are to you. Will this problem greatly affect how I hear my audio ( Since I'm not mixing music and I'm simply doing VO, will it matter as much ? ) ? Thanks for the help !

The short answer is yes, this would greatly affect your stereo field in perception. But... being that you are recording a simple mono voice track, unless you are planning on using stereo FX, then you could get by using just one monitor, listening in mono, as this is the way you are recording anyway.
However, if you are planning on incorporating stereo effects/processing, you'd need to get those monitors into as close of an equal triangle possible in order to accurately hear a stereo image. Regardless of stereo or mono, the farther back you are from the monitor(s), the less direct sound from the speaker you will hear and the more of the room you will hear. This could skew your perception of what the mix sounds like.

If you desk doesn't allow it, get some monitor stands :
https://www.sweetwater.com/c762--Studio_Monitor_Stands

Thanks for the replies. Space in the room is the problem, so the stands wouldn't really do anything for me. I have a question about these monitors though, they aren't going to bypass the laptops sound card if plugged directly to the laptop right ? Because even if I put the monitors in another room, I'd have to plug them directly to the laptop which will change the audio. Anyway, there are problems as well that I'd have to deal with, so I probably wont get them for now. Thanks for the help.

Lelouch, post: 450269, member: 50238 wrote: Thanks for the replies. Space in the room is the problem, so the stands wouldn't really do anything for me. I have a question about these monitors though, they aren't going to bypass the laptops sound card if plugged directly to the laptop right ? Because even if I put the monitors in another room, I'd have to plug them directly to the laptop which will change the audio. Anyway, there are problems as well that I'd have to deal with, so I probably wont get them for now. Thanks for the help.

I never encounter someone with so many obstacles/limitations.
But you seem to have enough motivation to get going ! (y)

If your space is that small, you should probably stick with headphones. But do your research first.
You don't wanna go cheap, because cheap models almost always have hyped frequencies (and ranges, like low end) that will lie to you, not truly reflect what you recorded. If your HPs are skewed sonically, then you're going to get a "false" mix that might sound fine in your phones, but that could sound completely different when played back on an accurate system.
Do your research on good headphone models for mixing purposes. Read reviews from publications like Sound On Sound, Mix Magazine and Tape Op.
Avoid YouTube vids unless they are sourced from the publications mentioned above or are posted by well-known reviewers.
You can certainly poll RO members, too... but you have to do your own share of the research first.
In short, stick to pro sources that have earned reputations for being unbiased and trustable in their reviews.

-d.

pcrecord, post: 450271, member: 46460 wrote: I never encounter someone with so many obstacles/limitations.
But you seem to have enough motivation to get going ! (y)

Thanks !

DonnyThompson, post: 450272, member: 46114 wrote: If your space is that small, you should probably stick with headphones. But do your research first.
You don't wanna go cheap, because cheap models almost always have hyped frequencies (and ranges, like low end) that will lie to you, not truly reflect what you recorded. If your HPs are skewed sonically, then you're going to get a "false" mix that might sound fine in your phones, but that could sound completely different when played back on an accurate system.
Do your research on good headphone models for mixing purposes. Read reviews from publications like Sound On Sound, Mix Magazine and Tape Op.
Avoid YouTube vids unless they are sourced from the publications mentioned above or are posted by well-known reviewers.
You can certainly poll RO members, too... but you have to do your own share of the research first.
In short, stick to pro sources that have earned reputations for being unbiased and trustable in their reviews.

-d.

I did a lot of research into headphones before I ever thought about studio monitors. I found this : http://voiceoveressentials.com/product/voice-optimized-headphones

They are called the " Voice Over Headphones ". I'v heard nothing but good things about them (such as how it doesn't change your audio, and that what you record is what you hear), but do you guys know anything about it ?

I guess you guys don't know anything about it ? I did plenty of research and they seem perfect for voice over as it tries to give a very flat response. However, they are made just for VO, so they don't seem to be very popular outside that field. Anyway, I'll get those if I can ( Probably will be able to ), message you guys when I got everything. It's taking a little while to purchase, but hopefully I'll have ordered by the end of the month. Thanks guys !

Lelouch, post: 450372, member: 50238 wrote: I guess you guys don't know anything about it ? I did plenty of research and ...

Define "plenty".
I didn't respond because I've no knowledge of them. My hunch is that Marco hasn't either, which is why neither of us replied to your query on them.
I tried to go a little research and found info on them to be very sparse - which is why I asked you to define your statement, "I did plenty of research"...
All I was able to find was a video from your voice over guy (Dan Lenard), which smelled suspiciously of being a compensated "review" ....along with the typical self-serving written reviews posted on the company's web page. Perhaps your definition of "plenty" is different from my own.
I have no idea if these headphones are good or not. They may be a good choice, or they may not be.
Any flat response, transparent sounding headphones can be used for mixing. Most pro audio engineers prefer nice monitors in a well treated room, and use headphones only for recording or as a mix reference for imaging and FX levels.
"Voice Optimized" is quite obviously a marketing/PR term, thought up to sell more of their product. It's not a technical term, it's just marketing hype.
The only thing you can do is try them...
And now I have a question for you:
What is your criteria for a good set of headphones for your particular application?
Meaning, how will you know if these headphones are "good" (or not)?
What defines "good " headphones for you in your situation?
Just curious.

I took 2 min to read the descriptions of the headphones on their website.

It says they are perfect for voiceover performers. The text doesn't mention mixing at all. . .
It promotes that closed back is needed, Which is good for isolation.
If you read the comments/reviews, none talks about mixing...

So if you dig them, they seem ok for tracking, you can buy them for this purpose.
But you'll still need flat reference headphones for mixing.

The thing is closed back headphones are known to have an unnatural frequency curve. Some are well made but they are among the very few and also highly priced.
A good closed back and that can be used to mix is the Focal spirit professionnal
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SpiritPro 349$

Search for
Reference Studio Headphones

DonnyThompson, post: 450379, member: 46114 wrote: Define "plenty".
I didn't respond because I've no knowledge of them. My hunch is that Marco hasn't either, which is why neither of us replied to your query on them.
I tried to go a little research and found info on them to be very sparse - which is why I asked you to define your statement, "I did plenty of research"...
All I was able to find was a video from your voice over guy (Dan Lenard), which smelled suspiciously of being a compensated "review" ....along with the typical self-serving written reviews posted on the company's web page. Perhaps your definition of "plenty" is different from my own.
I have no idea if these headphones are good or not. They may be a good choice, or they may not be.
Any flat response, transparent sounding headphones can be used for mixing. Most pro audio engineers prefer nice monitors in a well treated room, and use headphones only for recording or as a mix reference for imaging and FX levels.
"Voice Optimized" is quite obviously a marketing/PR term, thought up to sell more of their product. It's not a technical term, it's just marketing hype.
The only thing you can do is try them...
And now I have a question for you:
What is your criteria for a good set of headphones for your particular application?
Meaning, how will you know if these headphones are "good" (or not)?
What defines "good " headphones for you in your situation?
Just curious.

By plenty, I mean I'v read articles and searched for headphones that I can use for both monitoring and mixing ( Which I wont be doing much of to begin with ). Then I found those headphones. And yes, the comments and everything surrounding these headphones by people like Dan Lenard and such are there because Harlan Hogan sponsors them. So I stuck to the facts, and the description says,

" While musicians and many consumers choose headphones because of their eardrum rattling bass, open back and on the-ear-design they are a poor choice for voice work. We need to hear the clear, transparent & honest sound of our voices without artifice and affectation. Because we take direction while speaking we need a closed back, completely over-the-ear design so no leakage or feedback ruins a performance. And we need an extra degree of wearing comfort since voice talents spend many hours with headphones on; performing, narrating and often, editing. "

It's indicating that it has ( or is close to ) a flat frequency response, and Dan Lenard said the same in a comment ( Doubt he'd lie about a product ).

Good headphones for me, would be ones that can show me the flaws in my recordings, because I'v been lied to before ! Mixing purposes aren't that important for me since I'm not going to mess with EQ, and I doubt any good pair of headphones like these would lie to me about a compression and gate !

pcrecord, post: 450380, member: 46460 wrote: I took 2 min to read the descriptions of the headphones on their website.

It says they are perfect for voiceover performers. The text doesn't mention mixing at all. . .
It promotes that closed back is needed, Which is good for isolation.
If you read the comments/reviews, none talks about mixing...

So if you dig them, they seem ok for tracking, you can buy them for this purpose.
But you'll still need flat reference headphones for mixing.

The thing is closed back headphones are known to have an unnatural frequency curve. Some are well made but they are among the very few and also highly priced.
A good closed back and that can be used to mix is the Focal spirit professionnal
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SpiritPro 349$

Search for
Reference Studio Headphones

It does mention trying to be " transparent ", or a flat frequency response. There was a video with the man who made the headphones along with Dan Lenard, and there he mentions mixing with the headphones. Dan Lenards comment said,

" Sound: Clearly different from traditional studio headphones. The upper mid and highs are clear as a bell. No muffling or cross bleeding between frequencies; like a pair of studio monitors. The low is there, but at the same level as the rest of the spectrum. Very nice, and that cures the endorphin producing deep bass of your own voice. Yet, yet, the extreme low end - 200 Hz and below - is amazingly clear. I could hear my son running up the stairs from the basement 2 floors below so clearly, transparent and "dimensional" that it was startling! " - They wouldn't lie, but again they are sponsoring him. Thanks for the suggestion and the link, but they are pretty out of my range at the moment !

ANYWAY, these are not my only choice. I'v found other headphones that seem alright for the job, like these : https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD280Pro . If you guys aren't too sure of the Harlan Hogan Voice Over Headphones, then this pair is probably next up . It's made by Sennheiser ( so it's a reliable brand ), and claims to have a frequency response close to flat.

Thanks everyone for speaking their mind, it helps !

Lelouch, post: 450396, member: 50238 wrote: open back and on the-ear-design they are a poor choice for voice work. We need to hear the clear, transparent & honest sound of our voices without artifice and affectation. Because we take direction while speaking we need a closed back, completely over-the-ear design so no leakage or feedback ruins a performance. And we need an extra degree of wearing comfort since voice talents spend many hours with headphones on; performing, narrating and often, editing.

All this talks about performing/traking !

Lelouch, post: 450396, member: 50238 wrote: I'v found other headphones that seem alright for the job, like these : https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD280Pro

These are also closed back and tracking oriented. The HD380 would be a step further to mixing headphones but not there yet.

What I say is, there is a difference between tracking and mixing headphones. If you truly want the best reference that will be the next best thing to a studio monitor (which would be a greater choice here) you need a headphone that is made for mixing.
All those stated as 'studio reference headphones' in this search are better choice than both your suggestions :
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Reference+Studio+Headphones&Go=Search

Now again, I feel we are discussing these and fear you'll do a move in a different direction than the ones discussed here.
I remember you bought a mic that wasn't in any of our suggestions and end up in deception and forced to buy another one...
It is your right to do what ever you want and I encourage you to do so, it's a good way to learn, refine our ears and taste.

The HD280 is better than many headphones available and if you feel you should buy those or the Harlan, go ahead.
My job (well what I try to give to the forum) is to inform you that they are not made for mixing/mastering.
Now that doesn't meen you won't enjoy these and do great recording and mixing with them. Just that they are not the real thing.

pcrecord, post: 450397, member: 46460 wrote: All this talks about performing/traking !

These are also closed back and tracking oriented. The HD380 would be a step further to mixing headphones but not there yet.

What I say is, there is a difference between tracking and mixing headphones. If you truly want the best reference that will be the next best thing to a studio monitor (which would be a greater choice here) you need a headphone that is made for mixing.
All those stated as 'studio reference headphones' in this search are better choice than both your suggestions :
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Reference+Studio+Headphones&Go=Search

Now again, I feel we are discussing these and fear you'll do a move in a different direction than the ones discussed here.
I remember you bought a mic that wasn't in any of our suggestions and end up in deception and forced to buy another one...
It is your right to do what ever you want and I encourage you to do so, it's a good way to learn, refine our ears and taste.

The HD280 is better than many headphones available and if you feel you should buy those or the Harlan, go ahead.
My job (well what I try to give to the forum) is to inform you that they are not made for mixing/mastering.
Now that doesn't meen you won't enjoy these and do great recording and mixing with them. Just that they are not the real thing.

Thanks for the telling me. It's just that I can only afford to buy one pair of headphones. So I was hoping I could get one that I could use for both monitoring and mixing. I realize that I should have a pair of headphones for each ( or that expensive pair you linked ), but it's simply not possible right now. I was hoping to be able to get away with a pair like the Harlan Hogan since Voice Over doesn't require such fine tune mixing as music does.

So quick question, what kind of headphones would you recommend for mixing ( That's around $100 ). I wouldn't mind monitoring with them ( I never get " bleeding " ) !

pcrecord, post: 450397, member: 46460 wrote: All this talks about performing/ tracking !

These are also closed back and tracking oriented. The HD380 would be a step further to mixing headphones but not there yet.

What I say is, there is a difference between tracking and mixing headphones. If you truly want the best reference that will be the next best thing to a studio monitor (which would be a greater choice here) you need a headphone that is made for mixing.
All those stated as 'studio reference headphones' in this search are better choice than both your suggestions :
https://www.sweetwa…

Now again, I feel we are discussing these and fear you'll do a move in a different direction than the ones discussed here.
I remember you bought a mic that wasn't in any of our suggestions and end up in deception and forced to buy another one...
It is your right to do what ever you want and I encourage you to do so, it's a good way to learn, refine our ears and taste.

The HD280 is better than many headphones available and if you feel you should buy those or the Harlan, go ahead.
My job (well what I try to give to the forum) is to inform you that they are not made for mixing/mastering.
Now that doesn't meen you won't enjoy these and do great recording and mixing with them. Just that they are not the real thing.

Thanks for the telling me. It's just that I can only afford to buy one pair of headphones. So I was hoping I could get one that I could use for both monitoring and mixing. I realize that I should have a pair of headphones for each ( or that expensive pair you linked ), but it's simply not possible right now. I was hoping to be able to get away with a pair like the Harlan Hogan since Voice Over doesn't require such fine tune mixing as music does.

So quick question, what kind of headphones would you recommend for mixing ( That's around $100 ). I wouldn't mind monitoring with them !