>Is there any other POS out there that really gets under your skin?

Anything by Steely Dan?

Really, it's all a matter of taste.
And there's simply no upside in telling the public that they're "wrong".
If millions love it it's "good", as far as those millions are concerned.
There will always be successful records that you hate and unsuccessful records that you love.
People vote with their wallets in this race.

Kelly Osbourne rocks! "Not". If you think tallent has anything to do with it you are kidding yourself. You have heard Pink live haven't you?Jack Osbourne Rocks too, when he's comming down after a bad batch, curled up on the bed clutching his knees and sweating like a melon that's been pulled out of the refrigerator.... :D Unfortunately the marketing guru's have managed to get their grubby little claws into our industry and have made a mockery of everything we believe in. :mad: There will be plenty more of this crap going on in the future but you are right to be pissed off about it considering how much real talent is going unnoticed.

do you guys still listen to the radio?
At least in Brazil it is the best way of putting your time and renting your ears to total trash.
:(

There are only 2 FM radios in Brazil that are worth listening. One that only plays foreign music ( sung in english), of hits of 60´s-90´s ( Beatles, Rolling Stones, Genesis,Peter Gabriel, Toto, Police, simple Minds, Mariah, etc) and another one that only plays Pop/Mpb Brazilian music.

You know, when the Bealtes came out, I knew people who were into 50's music (exclusively) who moaned constantly about how they had killed all the "good music' off the radio.

I don't know how to spell her name, but that Avril Lavin is really, really annoying.

David
I heard that wonderful piece for the first time on the way into work tonight. I laughed until tears were falling from my eyes as the song... ahem..."progressed" into a delightful sampler of the common cliche'. I didn't know it was a hit, but why the hell not! Every new hit breaks a barrier, just not the ones we wish they would break. I know the masses have spoken, but album sales don't make the album. Ever heard the saying 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong? Well they are all f#$%ing dead wrong (pun intended). I just can't seem to agree with all the teenage girls on a great band/album/song. Most popular music today is a big joke, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who gets it. -Andy

Hi ,
I think that from a long time the Grammys this year were more close to the music.Norah Jones-yes!,but anyway where are these songs like "Bridge over troubled water".Don't misunderstand me -I'm producing dance,house music and our stuff is tuf-ca-tuf-ca ,but.... the real songs sound like music by Stevie Wonder,Chicago,Eart Wind & Fire.
That's my opinion:)

Donny

Ok, we have a few opinions on whats good, could go on forever. Howabout the Worst Chart Topper As Far As Recording Technique? Norah Jones has already been pounded on this.

My vote goes for The First Time by Roberta Flack. The tape hiss is 20db above the music! And it was a real Chart Topper.

The most painful thing I ever saw/heard was the Presidential salute to Paul Simon last Christmas. James Taylor and Carly Simon did "Me and Julio"- it was so bad I had to laugh to keep myself from vomiting. John Mellencamp (nee Cougar) covered "Graceland" in a weird Elvis meets Nina Simone vampy, strutting kind of fashion that made me wonder if he was insane. Paul Simon, in full knowledge that millions of people at home were watching his reaction to this "celebration" of his music, simultaneously smiled and gritted his teeth, looking like an android that was about to explode. Every once in a while the camera would cut to President Bush bobbing his head and snapping his fingers, trying to be in to it, looking confused as to why anyone would want to "celebrate" this particular music in this particular way. I adore Paul Simon, and trust me it was complete torture. Doc

so, my list list of shit goes: Britney ( hey guys, isn´t she in the same boat as Milli Vanilli used to?) - New female singers using that same RB loop that Mariah, Braxton, Janet and a few others have been using to death; Back street Boys, Foo fighters, Nirvana ( yes, you can crucify me), Rolling stones after the 90´s, U2 after the 90´s, Simple Minds latest albums, Celine "Die-on" never ending songs and vocal extension ego, these new garage/semi grunge bands that can hardly do a lead, wanna be singers that are married to "autotune".

At the moment lots of shit is being released in Brazil either, exploring asses, women sex appeal and so. Very few artists doing nice mpb, samba, pop/rock or bossa.

I myself have been trying to finish my Cd since 2000 and just can find the right songs. It will end up with compositions, arrangements from 1989 to recent days.
lol
I have been involved with music for so long and putting out an album with 5 or 6 real good songs, it is really difficult.

People are so worried about money and so that inspiration seemsto knock at someone else´s door or maybe a foreign planet.

:)

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
Celine "Die-on"

He he Alecio . I know you dont speak english as a first language

But dude I take my hat off to you on that

Funny, man, :cool: funny

Celine Dione's "I Drove All Night" immediately comes to mind .... more like "I Barfed All Night'. She is more obnoxious than a French person ... oh! Wait .. she is ... DAMN! Now I understand... :D

Anything by Celion (sealion) Die one really!

...and Britney , Cher ,Mariah , Nicole (Kidman)
There's absoloutely no soul.Nice arse though.

"Enrique Iglesias" had some shocking stuff out. :d:
I felt sick everytime it came on.

Commercial music is always full of it.
It's not as bad as the eighties though!

Britney Sperms - lol

Thanks invisible! In fact I am brazilian and possibly the most annoying creature of the web chats.lol

I was listening to some of Celine Die-on´s records and ..
Man, it is so stressing voacl all the time. Mariah Carey is another one that I have just cur from my list.
Man, that album Buttefly totally sucks. At least to me is very bad tracked, mixed, sometimes there are very little tune problems also.

I mix Chacka khan´s "Facts of Love", Lisa Sansfield´s "The real Thing" and even Madonna´s "Live to tell".
This was good pop female music.

Good News... Rush Live in Brazil is soon to be released.

I am eager to listen to new Toto and Tears for fears Albums.

I did not enjoy Audioslave. Very boring > It sounds a lot like whitesnake, soundgarden and so.
Maybe a few songs due to the great singer and reasonable guitar chops.

Hey Sebatron, 80´s ruled!!
U2, INXS, Tears For Fears, Mister Mr., Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Europe, Simple Minds, The Cure, Smiths, REM ( I hate this one), Midnight Oil, Men at Work, Kenny Logins, Johny Hates JAzz.. not so bad, agree?

Early Soundgarden rocks, and the first Rage Against the Machine album was great, but, yeah, I agree that Audioslave kinda sucks. The music, with the exception of some of the guitar work, is boring. Cornell is an amazing singer, but none of the lyrics stand out. They sat on this album for a while before releasing it, I wonder if they really like it either.
Audioslave reminds me a lot of the 70s supergroups, who, as well, sounded good on paper, but never lived up to it. It was always "Hey, what if there was a band with X on guitar, Y on bass, and Z on drums... man, that would really rock..."
Unfortunatley X+Y+Z always managed to = zzzzzzz (snore). I am thinking of bands like Asia. The musicians were always GODS, but the end product generally sucked (a few exceptions here and there).
My theory for that phenomenon is this- nobody wants to deal with the pain of telling the other guy their part needs some work. The band gets together and jams out some songs, which come together quickly because everyone is pro, but no one steps back to listen for overall quality. Gimmicky studio tricks and virtuoso musicianship also got in the way, and five minute drum solos (also, to be sure, egos). Why worry about writing something authentic, with real emotion, when Tony Levin and Carl Palmer are going to do alternating bars of 7/8 and 3/4? Especially when the song is 23 minutes long and called "Procession of the Headless Gnomes".
Now don't think I am picking on people. I went to see Tony Levin last year and it was a great show (even some old Genesis and "Elephant Talk"). Like I said part of the agony was that the raw talent of most of these acts was prodigious.
Which brings us to Audioslave. Strong players. Great singer. Great producer. No overwhelming hunger to make a great album.
Bomb.
Doc

Hey, Doc! Don´t you like Asia?
Except for that "Gipsy Soul" song of the 90´s, that sounded like a pop weak band, they really do fine!

I have heard an album, it was an imported version.. I think that only Geoff Downes still plays, but it was quite nice.

ACB,
No, not big on Asia. I like old Yes, King Crimson, Peter Gabriel, Roxy Music, Talking Heads. It's just a personal taste thing, I certainly respect the individual players. Hey, you don't like Nirvana! :p Doc

As long as you don't say anything bad about The The, Depeche Mode, Garbage or Bel Canto I'm ok with it heheh :) :) :)

Hey Doc,
Peter Gabriel is a genius.
The guy that invented the Phil Collins drum sound but didn't get credit for it.

Hey Sebatron, 80´s ruled!!
U2, INXS, Tears For Fears, Mister Mr., Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Europe, Simple Minds, The Cure, Smiths, REM ( I hate this one), Midnight Oil, Men at Work, Kenny Logins, Johny Hates JAzz.. not so bad, agree?

sorry , you're right ACB.
Early eighties is better...more adventurous.

Although 90125..one of my fave albums (YES) :eek:

Trevor Horn still producing number ones I see!!
...another Genius

Cool! 90125 is a must.It is a matter of taste, indeed...
Nirvana, Metalica, Rolling stones ( after 80´s), Foo Fighters, REM.. I hate this...
:)

Seems like there were a couple of periods that were really exciting for rock music, 1966-1971 and 1976-1983. Someday I am going to make a graph, using the release dates of great rock albums, to figure out if there is any sense to be made of why some time periods are more exciting than others. Or maybe I won't. Doc

Originally posted by Divo:
You have heard Pink live haven't you?

Actually, I've heard her live opening for Lenny Kravitz, I don't think it was bad at all, I've seen MUCH worse. I also had the pleasure of working with Pink a year or so ago. She wrote this really pretty song "Missing my past". It didn't make it on her latest album, she ended up giving it to Mya, but in the studio she's very spot on.

I think Neil Young is a fantastic songwriter, yes it IS true. All kinds of non musicians agree with me, and it is their opinions that matter. Technically speaking, he is sloppy as hell. Emotionally he is all over everything. I would record him for free just to see it.
The problem today is that Neil Young wouldn't have a hope in hell to get signed.
Music today, unfortnately is a manufactured product. Just like toilet paper.
So go and get a 98 degrees cd cover and use it to wipe your ass. I do. :eek:

By the way, I LOVE the chilies. However, if we are on the topic of bad recordings, have you listened the californication album? Was it a demo or something? Well mixed(except for the first song..the intro sounds like sh*t)and the toms sound like hell. How about the first system of a down? Life is peachy by korn. Transmissions by the tea party, bad sounding records.

Good stuff...jing go lo ba-santana, Diamonds on the soles of her shoes-Paul simon, The sickness-disturbed, the last taste-fiona apple, salisbury hill-peter gabriel, mystic rhythms-rush.

u seem to miss the point of listening to crappy singers and bands for me its so i can hear production value nothing like takin a piss poor band say creed or averial and make um sound like a million dollars my hats off to the engineers and their toys also im sure im the only one that does this but i spend about 20 dollars a week buying cds no ones ever heard of at 2 to 4 bucks a cd just so i can hear diffrent mixes i literaly have over 500 cds good ear training

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
Celine Dione's "I Drove All Night" immediately comes to mind .... more like "I Barfed All Night'. She is more obnoxious than a French person ... oh! Wait .. she is ... DAMN! Now I understand... :D

Good Call Dude.

Gee, I sounded angry... sorry 'bout that! :D

Hi
Great board. First time poster here.
There are very many songs that bug me but way more I like. This subject is always an interesting subject. The record companies control the radio waves is true but if people like it they like it. I used to argue this fact with my wife. I would point out a particular fact about a song and she would say " I don't care I like it" We get caught up in making good music and run into brick walls trying to get airplay so we tend to want to rip on stuff we consider crap but this has been going on forever.
Before Video the music had to stand on its own. Now its all part of the show. And for every person who hates someone, other people will love it. They are not stupid. They like it or they don't.

The great composers were not appreciated in their time.

The early Jazz scene was considered crap.

The beatles were frowned upon by the older generation.

Rap and hiphop were put down my many people in the business. Now I here it's influence in many other kinds of music.

The Britney Spears have always ben around.

I had a discusion years back with an engineer I work with and he said " this rap thing will die"
and I remember thinking. Lets see, a type of music where anybody from the street can relate to and preform. I knew it would be big.
I record alot of rap now and have added my own musical style to it. Ten years ago I was afraid to touch it.

Bad recordings are another thing too. People don't care. They really don't. They do not read all the mags or stress out over which plugin to buy.
I will still only make what I think is good but that is because that the only way I know.

Jimi

So go and get a 98 degrees cd cover and use it to wipe your ass. I do.

This must hurt! :)

chris

Celine Die-on, Mariah WhoCares, Britney Sperms...

I think that todays corporate record industry is hard core proof that marketing is king. When the record labels produce a boy band, they actually survey young girls(their key target market), about the cuteness, and bio info of numerous guys before they select the four or five dudes in the act.
I will never appreciate these types of people as artists, but I have to admire the ability to perform. These people are actors! Not mucisians.
It would be the saviour of good music, and possibly the end of a lot of antimosity towards the big labels, if they would spend this much timemoney developing true artists.
In addition I think that music with true depth influences people with true depth. In todays society, I see the shallowness of various kinds of media influencing people with shallowness. If the value structure of modern media was altered, don't you think at least to some extent, the value structure of our society would follow?
Sorry if this post should be on "sociology.org", but I think this is the real reason why all these "artists" bug the hell out of me.

The pendulum will swing back towards quality over image- swomebody will fill the need for good, exciting music that most of us haven't heard on the radio in a long time (at least not in any quantity). The crap bands have always been there, and always will be there, but the high quality acts have all but disappeared. Sure, Radiohead, Beck, Sleater-Kinney, Modest Mouse, and Built to Spill put out good music, but you rarely hear even Beck or Radiohead on the airwaves anymore.
The major labels may not have the desire to offer quality music anymore, but others will... and with internet and satellite radio for outlets... It's a whole new ballgame. Doc

Why should anyone be surprised that music made for twelve year old girls sounds exactly like music made for twelve year old girls?

When discerning listeners start buying more of the "sophisticated" recordings made by, and for, people with actual pubic hair, the industry WILL comply! Otherwise, why put a million bucks into advertising a Rolls Royce when that entire market could be reached by phone in about two hours!

I think the worst stuff out right now is the young country shit thats played on the radio.I work in a factory so Im forced to listen to it all day long.To me it sounds like the same band,same producer,same everything.From what Ive read making a country record is like sience its not creative at all you just use these mics,these pres,these players and when yer done with the music(that is played by the same studio musicians) ya bring in the "artist" to sing a song that the record company picked fer them to sing.I grew up listening to country music and bluegrass but I cant stand what is played on the radio its not country.There are alot of good country bands out now but they dont get played on the radio.what kind'a fool do ya think I am.Im sorry Im at work right now and that song is on the radio.I do pretty good job of blocking it out but sometimes it hurts to much to fight it.LUV RODNEY

This will be a very unpopular opinion here, but I'm going to voice it anyway. I think that one main thing that has "ruined" music, is the ability and practice of recording seperate tracks at different times. This is certainly nothing new, but it isolates the musicians too much. There's no dialogue. It's the same as doing what we do here on the internet as a replacement for conversation.
The Miles Davis Sextet live session recordings from the late 1950's and early 60's were magic. They may not have had the studio production quality that we are capable of today, but musically they were magic.
It is much easier on the nerves of sound engineers and producers to do seperate tracks. They can isolate and hone and even re-record a given track. But at what cost? I miss the magic of the old live session recordings. Sure they may not have been as polished, but the musicians were playing together and communicating.
Sorry, I'm an old jazzman at heart, and when you track jazz like that, it just ain't jazz anymore.
-Jeff

Rodney,
I am glad to read an opinion from somebody who loves country music but thinks that what is played on the radio today is something Merle Haggard or Graham Parsons woulda quickly wiped off the end of their boot. I am not a big CW fan, but I agree, more than any other genre country is ass-kicked by the industry. Wow, imagine, the current assessment of CW fans is that they are even more gullible than rock fans or jazz fans. I am ready to kick somebody's ass! Who's with me? Doc

Originally posted by Doc@BeefyTreats.com:
I am glad to read an opinion from somebody who loves country music but thinks that what is played on the radio today is something Merle Haggard or Graham Parsons woulda quickly wiped off the end of their boot.

I've lost all comprehension of what "country music" even means these days. Shania Twain has a hell of a lot more in common with the Backstreet Boys than with Merle Haggard or Johnny Cash. Mainstream country radio is basically just mainstream pop radio with a bit more steel guitar.

Hey Jeff I agree with ya I dont think you can make a great jazz record overdubing everything.Theres got to be something live something real happining.Another thing I think is ruining music is to me it sounds too perfect so much so that it allmost doesnt sound real anymore.With all the edits and comped tracks it has no human factor anymore.What ever happend to a good performance?I just got a book last night called TEMPLES OF SOUND THE HISTORY OF CLASSIC RECORDING STUDIOS.I had a chance to look at it it looks great some great pictures of Miles Davis, John Coltran and lots of others in these big ass rooms with mics all over the place.
Doc thanks fer the reply Im not a big CM fan either but I do like alot of it Merles my favorite.Its still sad that music that used to have alot of soul has no soul at all anymore. I dont understand it CM fans are like worker ants no mind of there own ill help ya kick ass you start in BC Ill start in Detroit we'll meet in the middle.By the way ya no what sucks?I have a permit to carry a hand gun butt I cant just kill whomever I want its my gun I should be able to choose who I want to shoot it would really make my life more pleasent.I can be trusted not to shoot any good people just the bad ones.Maby there could be a limit like two a day or something I dont know LUV RODNEY

Originally posted by RODNEY:
Another thing I think is ruining music is to me it sounds too perfect so much so that it allmost doesnt sound real anymore.With all the edits and comped tracks it has no human factor anymore.What ever happend to a good performance?

The current state of music actually makes a lot more sense if you realize that there is "music" and there is "product". "Music" is a form of personal expression, whereas "product" is something created to sell. There's nothing wrong with "product". It serves a purpose. Just don't confuse it with "music".