Just a thought J, you might survey gas stations with diesel and whether they carry #2 in the winter. I get asked enough times whether there is diesel available around YNP (YES btw) that it must be an issue in some areas.

Cucco wrote: However, my wife would give me no end to the grief if I actually bought a bus!

Otherwise, I'm torn between the tow-behind and the box truck idea.

Do what all the big nonprofits, government entities, and some businesses do:

Hide it in the budget.

Come up with a budget for the ENTIRE project. Get that TOTAL number in a range she can live with.

Some of the items won't be needed, or will use your existing materials and/or skills (eg. cabling). The money saved goes toward considering the bus option when you rework your numbers for the actual budget.

Sadly, it's not the budget she would care about. That would come out of the studio budget (although, she does do my numbers and my books...)

No, instead, she'd pretty much tell me that I'd need to buy a short school bus b/c I'm "special."

Must feel good to have a wife that understands you, eh?

Cucco wrote: Sadly, it's not the budget she would care about. That would come out of the studio budget (although, she does do my numbers and my books...)

No, instead, she'd pretty much tell me that I'd need to buy a short school bus b/c I'm "special."

hahaha!

Oh, that kind of grief.

Have you checked out any of the ready to roll production trailers out there?

http://www.markertek.com/vptr.asp

They don't normally include a generator though.

What are your power requirements?

J,

In the FWIW catagory..........

I opted for a trailer. The reason being, that if a truck breaks down, I'm not making a gig.

On a trailer, about the worst you run into is a flat tire.

If the towing vehicle takes a dive, I can get a rental and/or a tow from AAA.

I purchased a 7x14x8 high ceiling with curbside and wide swing doors. I would rather have had a drop door. That way I wouldn't have to carry a dock plate or ramps.

When I put the 2nd rig together (probably next year), I'm probably going to do a 24' straight with either a Cat or Cummings diesel. The Cat and Cummings are both pretty much 2,000,000 mile motors and matching trannies that are pretty damned reliable. Be careful about the liftgate. I've heard repeatedly... do not get a Tommy Lift on a big truck unless you buy it new. They just aren't all that strong to begin with, and maintaining the seals is a PITA. So, I'm gonna look for a factory installed lift.

You can find good deals on 10,000 GVW's that are non CDL in the spring. Especially catching my attention is the consideration of a reefer. The only thing you gotta watch out for is keeping the reefer compartment dry. They evidently do like to suck in moisture when they're running down the road.

The thing I don't like about a school bus/short bus, is the frames are welded big time to the box. This makes em' a major PITA to convert.

12-16' straights are limp in the suspension and dogs to keep the transmissions in good running condition.

HTH,
Max

You will also need to live in it as wife will give you the boot!

Forget the school bus route, Cucco. I did that and it was great for traveling, but expensive to restore. The bus companies usually sell them when they are miled out. They are designed for being full of kids and have extra safety add-ons like double brakes, vacuum tanks, lines and so on . I still have mine, its mint. I dumped 25 grand into restoring it. Removed all the windows, added a security system and super duty locks. I'd sell it to you for a few grand if you want to drive up here lol.

One thing I would concider is buying something that rides really smooth. Buses an't a smooth ride. They are tanks. I'd go with something that had a soft ride and then go from there.

I'm actually right on with MadMax's thoughts. I like the idea of the tow behind for the simple reason that if the engine dies in the truck, I'm not completely stranded.

I have looked at the Markertek trailers but they fall outside of my budget and are WAY more than I need.

I'm thinking a used Chevy Silverado and a 6x12 trailer with A/C and a gennie should set me back around $10K (done some research...)

I'd build the inside out myself...

I think you have the right idea with the trailer. I am now dealing with an intermittent starter solenoid & a rusting out power liftgate. But you'll need more than fans in the summertime I can guarantee that. You'll die from heat protestation and so will your equipment. You can get ceiling mounted RV air-conditioners but their noise may be objectionable. I stuck a BARD "Wall Mount" air-conditioner on the back of my truck, with 24,000 BTU's of cooling power but it requires 208-240 volts. Then there is the issue of power distribution if you don't use a generator. A power isolation transformer from Signal Transformer Corp. that can handle 75 amps would be a minimum you want to go with. That is unless you go with a diesel generator. That's what I'm looking into right now after pulling shore power for the past 19 years. putting an additional generator on the truck engine is not what I would call an option. My advantage is that I can have the box removed and placed on another chassis if I should so desire. I haven't gotten there yet. With most any other truck you will want to get "air ride suspension" which are rubber airbags. My old Mercedes will is known for its soft extended leaf spring suspension requiring no air ride. And my box is a fiberglass reinforced plywood body. different problems as compared to metal. I often considered purchasing a used Greyhound/Trailways bus. But most of those already have over 250,000 mi. on them. My track only had 135,000 when it was five years old. I didn't want Windows and I didn't want a side entrance door. I only have the back door. The power liftgate is certainly handy. But I have to get that fixed now also. Heck, it's 25 year old, 1984, antique. What you might want to look into is one of those Freightliner/Dodge/Mercedes vans. Nice tall ceilings, 30 mpg with a five cylinder Mercedes engine, diesel. Something like $36,000 new. Larger than a Chevy van, more sleek than a box truck. How about an old already converted 1984 Mercedes-Benz 1117? I think and getting too old for this stuff? 54 is right around the corner. Can you say arthritis? Ouch.

Chugging away
Mx. Remy Ann David

Years ago we were looking seriously at a camper for a mobile studio. They have a good ride and you can purchase one new without all the interior stuff for a considerable savings. The one we were looking at was about $19,000.00 and was used. It had a very good engine and a good transmission and the interior of the camper was all custom and a lot of the "junque" that many campers have on them was not installed in this unit. There was a bathroom and a small kitchen which would both be nice on extended recording sessions. The shore power was well done and it had a generator located on slide out rails in the chassis which was capable of running the entire vehicle plus about 10 amps. The camper had a roof mounted A/C which was fairly quiet. We decided not to do it based on a couple of personal reasons but it sure would have made a nice mobile studio.

FWIW and YMMV

J,

Just to give you a heads up... I would be really careful on the Silverado's. I was originally towing my mobile rig with a Suburban. After I started to spin the 3rd transmission out of it – it needed to go.

I talked to a buddy of mine who suggested the Ford Excursion. 205k later, the trannie is still holding together just fine.

Seems that the GM trannies just aren't all that beefy except in certain models... so, be careful in which transmission it's equipped with.

I had a Road Trek II, a converted Chevy van, for a couple of years. It was gutted of the rear "bedroom" in favor of an AMEK and a rack of DA88's....LOL!!!! It rode GREAT and the roof A/C was pretty good.
Max is right about the trannies. Mine gave me fits, and the rear end had to be rebuilt TWICE, as well. In a previous life, I was a service manager in a Ford dealership. I saw F350's with 460 engines and C-4 (?) trannies go well over 200K miles. If I was to do it again, that's what I would tow one of those Markertek trailers with...

How was your available space in the conversion van? I've definitely considered an F250 van but need space for a few racks and a pair of engineers. Oh yeah, and a disco ball.

My vote is for a new dodge van.

If you look, you can find F350's or maybe an Excursion.

I LOVE my Excursion... (TheBoss© calls it the Little Bus) It's the best of both worlds. It's like a van, w/o the top heavy issue, and it's like a pick-up, except that you can fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in it flat, with 3" to spare.

You can pull a 40" tall object straight out the back w/o tilting it. And there's no way it'll get wet as the back is totally enclosed like a van.

With a standard 10,000 lb GVW towing capacity, with a 7 pin hitch connector std, it's da' bomb.

I just wish they hadn't discontinued making them. IMHO, it's probably the best commercial use vehicle they've ever made.

The Chevy (Road TrekII) was big enough for an AMEK Big by Langley 32-strip. We kept the recorders in a rack in the bedroom area (by the board) but rolled it over to the "dining area" so that 2 enginners could sit at the board. It worked out pretty well.
Jeremy, if you are looking into a Ford, ask the dealer if they still have the "Club Wagon" chassis, as opposed to the "Econoline". The CW was designed to be a luxury ride, as opposed to a plumbers truck.

J. The Sprinter (in various box and suspensions) with the Cummins diesel and the matching trannie is the shizits. 30mpg. 200,000miles min. You can get them lowdeck and duals...the interior is roomy as you want depending on the box...a/c converters built in DUAL converters @20 amps each!

My last electrical company was switching to these until the economy tanked. So I saw them new and raw. The build out can be exactly what the cia ordered.

and in todays market....hell they may give you lifetime lease with free replacement every 100K miles....

Just a thought.

BTW. The Cummins with a complete set of racks and tools for electrical work did not notice the complete set of racks and tools for electrical work.

I dont know if you're familiar with how much crap we carry around, but its three times as much as any other construction trade. Period.

I know two people who own Sprinters and the say they are the bomb, they have mega high roofs in their models and a 6ft plus person can stand inside with headroom. Garaging it might be an issue though.

Guys and Remy -
Thanks SO MUCH for the wonderful advice so far!
The great news is, even though it's about 3x my allowed budget, I may be able to sell my wife on the Sprinter idea!

I went to the dealership right around the corner from my home and they had a dozen sitting on the lot. All of them were marked all over the windshield REDUCED! PRICE TOO LOW TO ADVERTISE!!!

I'm pretty sure this is a new thing - I haven't seen these markings in the past and I go by their dealership all the time. Sadly, I'm not poised to move though for another few months. I can only hope Dodge is still in the crapper then...oh wait...it's Dodge...of course they will be!

I'm pretty stoked about this! Once I can start making the move, I'll clue you guys into the picture and include photos where possible!

Cheers-
Jeremy

Please do!

If the Sprinter looks like it's as stout as it's being touted... I may have to look into one as well.

Context removal:
"even though it's about 3x my allowed budget, I may be able to sell my wife"

NICE!! I'd hope I could get more for her. She's a good woman - mows the yard and looks pretty hot still.

Is there a discount if you throw in the kids? 8-)

You need a discount to purchase a good looking woman who mows the lawn?

Only if the kids are included!

How about a Mrs.Monkey pic?
Does she pack a pistol too?

BRH wrote: How about a Mrs.Monkey pic?
Does she pack a pistol too?

I would fear something at least, if not more lethal than what J's avatar is packin'....

Why else would the monkey pack that kind of fire power???

(Self preservation)

If you guys ONLY KNEW...

BTW -
Max - how long of a drive is it for someone to get to you from Wilmington (have I asked you before?)

I have a friend/client that needs to get into a real studio soon. When are you officially open for business in the new digs?

TheJackAttack wrote: Is there a discount if you throw in the kids? 8-)

Hey! I've met both the wife and kid. You gotta pay extra for the kid! Worth it at twice the price. He's got a great ear and he's small enough to switch patch cables behind the mixing desk.

I'm told by reliable sources that the kid sips apple juice while you sip single malt. Talk about a cheap date!

That is true Bob! Btw - that Scotch rocks! Thanks again!

I think the Cummins is a come on? I've always been told it's a Mercedes small five cylinder diesel. You see these allover Europe and Mercedes had purchased Chrysler & Freightliner which includes Dodge so, Cummins? I don't think so?

You can't go wrong with a Mercedes
Mx. Remy Ann David

Cucco wrote: If you guys ONLY KNEW...

BTW -
Max - how long of a drive is it for someone to get to you from Wilmington (have I asked you before?)

I have a friend/client that needs to get into a real studio soon. When are you officially open for business in the new digs?

Wilmington's about 3 hours... by the book. :)

Good Lord willing, I'm hoping to be open for actual bidness by late October, surely... :-?

About 200 man hours until my CO and guess about 2-3 weeks to wire the place.

If I can get the doors open sooner, believe me... I will.

RemyRAD wrote: I think the Cummins is a come on? I've always been told it's a Mercedes small five cylinder diesel. You see these allover Europe and Mercedes had purchased Chrysler & Freightliner which includes Dodge so, Cummins? I don't think so?

You can't go wrong with a Mercedes
Mx. Remy Ann David

Yeah my bad. The Cummins is available in the pickups and several of the other trucks...The Sprinter is a Mercedes until this year and I'm not sure who makes this new V6 diesel. I know that Cummins was slated to build a motor for some more of the light and medium duty fleet.

Either way these things are the shizits.

So, I've been doing more and more shopping and more and more thinking...

The Sprinter is still an option, albeit a BIG option (big in size and price!)

The tow behind is still an option too, but I'm curious...

I've found a tow-behind trailer that is about 700lbs curb weight. Adding in the cables, furniture and equipment that I'd need, I'd be at my 1500 lb max towing weight recommended by my truck's manufacturer (Honda Element. And, btw, I love my Element, so it's not likely to get traded in any time soon...) However, it's pretty small inside. (has to be to meet that 1500 lb requirement.)

What would you guys consider to be too cramped?? Bear in mind, my set up would likely be two rolling racks (roughly 12-18 spaces each). The LCD monitors would likely be mounted to the wall itself and the speaker/monitors would be Adam A7s on stands (securely strapped and mounted to the floor - this plan may change and I may decide to mount them to the walls as well).

I'd have a small folding table for the keyboard and mouse and 2-3 chairs, 1 rolling and 2 folding.

The trailer I'm talking about is about 5' across, 5' tall and about 8' long.

While being towed, it would need to hold cables (500' 8 channel snake, 300' 8 channel snake, 100' 8 channel snake and about 80 lbs of miscellaneous mic cables and patch cables as well as 500' of heavy gauge extension cable for shore power), mic stands (3 latchlake mikings and a handfull of traditional smaller boom stands), and all electrical gear - preamps, computer, interfaces, monitors, etc.

I'm not terribly worried that the trailer can handle the equipment while it's in tow and I'm certain I can keep that vehicle under the 1500 lbs limit. I just want to make sure that I won't go crazy sitting in it for hours on end...

Oh...and FWIW...
The only gear that would be left in the trailer while it's stowed would be the preamps, monitors, mic stands and cables. The computer, interface(s) and mics would NOT be left in place. The mic preamps *may* get offloaded as well (hence the rolling racks.)

Thoughts???

Really, it is the tongue weight you need to be concerned with as I don't think you are likely to hit to many 70mph stretches with your gear. If your 'truck' can't handle the tongue weight then you end up dropping the hitch and whatever it is attached to, to the street. This is highly entertaining to watch when it isn't your truck. Also, despite the tow limit of 1500# I would still make sure you purchased a Class III or IV hitch-IV really IMO-if they make one for your rig.

Just the opinion of a KS farm boy...

Now where was that C4, it's time to go fishin'.

Yeah...a class III would be my minimum. They do have it (in fact, there's a Honda made accessory class III trailer hitch.)

You'd be surprised about how many 70 MPH stretches I hit...
One of the main reasons I want to get this set up is so I can hit the road more.

My average commute to recording jobs is about 50 miles. However, last year alone, I went to Florida, Kansas City, MO and New York, not to mention DC, Maryland, North Carolina and West VA.

And Hey! Why did you put "truck" in quotations. You slamming my Element?!?! ;-)

So...
I've started pricing out and spec'ing out the capabilities.

I'm leaning towards the tow-behind option. The 5x8 would work with my weight requirements, but would be cramped. If I went bigger, I'd have to get a more "capable" truck for towing. I'm considering the Mazda Tribute (I need a *small* SUV and have owned the Tribute before and liked it). The Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner are similar/same. They can haul 3500lbs with no issue.

If I go that route, I can get into a 6x10 trailer. I looked at one such trailer, a Homesteader, yesterday.

It's nice. I can fit everything I want into this trailer with no issues and can easily stand up inside of it. It was also sitting outside yesterday during a 103 heat index day! Inside the trailer was a cool 82 degrees. Apparently, this trailer has side vents that help to keep air moving through it. That should make cooling it easy! Since I'm discussing cooling, I found a portable AC unit. It's small - 7000BTU and only pulls 910 Watts.

I'm looking at a line of Honda and Yamaha portable/quiet generators. Both lines have gennies that will put out 3000 Watts with a dB rating of roughly 55dB/7M. Both lines include Pulse Width Modulation inverters which should provide clean enough power (along with a decent power center and UPS).

So...after doing the math, including all of the following gear:
28" monitor
2 True Systems P8s
1 Focusrite ISA 428
RME FF800
Dangerous Audio D-Box
PC (500 W P/S)
HVAC unit
2 ADAM A7s
2 60 Watt Lamps
Alesis Masterlink (for spec's only - I don't use one but have a handful of other back up recorders that come it with less power)
Mackie 1202
External Hard Disks

All of this adds up to under 2200 watts of pull at maximum load.

This means, I should be able to use a 3000 watt generator to power the whole lot. Otherwise, I may get two 1800 watt generators and isolate the AC unit on its own gennie.

The gennies can be mounted on the tongue of the trailer. I'd build a box that's mounted to the tongue that provides some level of weather proofing, theft protection, sound isolation and ventilation.

I figure, with this setup, I should be able to run the trailer for several hours without refueling.

I've looked into running isolated deep cycle batteries using a solenoid-based battery isolator off of the vehicle's alternator and then using sine wave inverters behind the batteries. The problems I'm running into are size/weight considerations, maximum output, safety (sealed/unsealed batteries), etc. The gennie idea seems to be the winner so far.

Okay....
let's get your questions, thoughts, ideas and so on.

BTW -
Price-wise, everything is spec'ing out well under $10K! (Except the new truck...that would be my personal vehicle, so I'd cover it out of my own wallet).

Cheers-
J.

2 60W lamps ? go CFL and save 100W
Use a decent UPS and power filter off that generator.