This:

"Not all volume controls are created equal – some affect frequency response at different levels, some introduce noise, some rely on tone-snatching digital level controls. the MONITOR ST’s volume control is a relay-actuated stepped analog attenuator made from top-shelf audiophile-grade components, expertly implemented into Chris Muth’s no-compromise analog signal path. From the remote’s elegantly-shaped knob, you’ll get crystal clear sonics with dead-accurate volume level recalls and better than 0.01dB gain tracking between channels. Whether you’re blasting playback through the mains or squinting at your small monitors at whisper volumes, the MONITOR ST will never color your sound or skew your stereo image. And because all the switching within the MONITOR ST is handled by relays, your audio signals are delivered to your speakers unadulterated, removing all the guesswork while tracking, mixing or mastering."

source: http://www.dangerousmusic.com/products/monitor-st

That's the good news. And it is good news, something I'd love to implement into my rig.

The bad news is that I am light years away from getting one, with my current budget for gear, which is, sadly, no budget at all.
Things are pretty rough for me right now financially.

kmetal, post: 434974, member: 37533 wrote: That's exactly how I understood it sir. Also been meaning to ask for a long time what does namaste stand for???? Lol

Well Kyle, my understanding is that it's a Sanskrit word. Sanskrit is an eastern language from ages past, created with the belief that the structure of these words, when verbalized, resonate with the universe with intent. Namaste can be a greeting, a statement, a goodbye. The meaning is basically the god/soul/spirit/energy/vibrations etc. in me recognizes/honors the same in you. Kinda "woo woo", metaphysical, spiritual, yoga-ish, quantum physics, string theory, etc. etc.!

Many times you'll see it verbalized with a physical gesture of hands in front, palms together with fingers pointing upward and a bow of the head and heads simultaneously. I will often use the gesture alone as a thank you. I'm no guru, just really like it! Fits real nicely with my ethics, beliefs and values which is why my handle and eventual studio name is Vibrations. I guess I'm just an old helpless hippie throw back and proud of it! Glad you asked.
Namaste

DonnyThompson, post: 434998, member: 46114 wrote: This:

"Not all volume controls are created equal – some affect frequency response at different levels, some introduce noise, some rely on tone-snatching digital level controls. the MONITOR ST’s volume control is a relay-actuated stepped analog attenuator made from top-shelf audiophile-grade components, expertly implemented into Chris Muth’s no-compromise analog signal path. From the remote’s elegantly-shaped knob, you’ll get crystal clear sonics with dead-accurate volume level recalls and better than 0.01dB gain tracking between channels. Whether you’re blasting playback through the mains or squinting at your small monitors at whisper volumes, the MONITOR ST will never color your sound or skew your stereo image. And because all the switching within the MONITOR ST is handled by relays, your audio signals are delivered to your speakers unadulterated, removing all the guesswork while tracking, mixing or mastering."

source: http://www.dangerousmusic.com/products/monitor-st

That's the good news. And it is good news, something I'd love to implement into my rig.

The bad news is that I am light years away from getting one, with my current budget for gear, which is, sadly, no budget at all.
Things are pretty rough for me right now financially.

Yeah d. I hear the financial hurt. I'm way ahead in these gear choices than I am actually close to buying them. What was going to be my gear loan turned into a car loan due to me totaling it. As is life. I'm young and dumb when it comes to gear and would rather eat Raman for a while and where cheap clothing, not go party, and drive a cheap car. Things most people my age focus on. My parents are extremely generous and are loaning me some money to buy a home, so I'm trying to aquire gear before that, as home owning will occupy everything I have for a while. I've also sold almost all my gear to pay for living expenses. I've been on hiatus for 6 months now. Long story short I got burnt out, and had been working thru a chronic back injury. I'm in the process of applying for ssi disability due to my back, and my ocd/bipolar. Discovering the mental things has been a huge relief, as up until a year or two ago, i was always wondering 'what that thing' is that made me feel different.
I put these off for the last 7 years to get to a certain level of proficiency in the music field. I couldn't afford to say no.

Fortunately Massachusetts allows you to earn x amount of money each month, to encourage people to be productive. They also allow you to save money, for schooling, and they allow you to be a business owner. They encourage this so you can maintain a higher quality of life, and hopefully one day get off disability, if your medical conditions allow. I'm certainly not trying to take advantage or milk the system, rather use what's available to get me where I need to be. Belive me, when your on public benefits there's a stigma attached. And I wouldn't wish my conditions on very many souls, as there is no cure yet, only treatment. My relationships have suffered severely (I've been single most of my life) and I shower more in one day than most do in a week. That's only the beginning.

The upside to the trade off is, I tend to have a very strong attention to detail, catch on to most things very quickly, and I have a fairly high level of intelligence. All of which can cause problems in there own right. Anyways all I can say is I sort of understand financial hardship, and I hope things turn better for ya.

As far as my gear goes I only have one true chance in the next decade so I'm going big (high end)and accept the possibly of big failure. I'm also not purchasing a lot of it, and I truly feel my skill level has finally merited the top notch stuff. Slowly I will aquire it.

I hope things turn around for you man.

vibrations1951, post: 435000, member: 34341 wrote: Well Kyle, my understanding is that it's a Sanskrit word. Sanskrit is an eastern language from ages past, created with the belief that the structure of these words, when verbalized, resonate with the universe with intent. Namaste can be a greeting, a statement, a goodbye. The meaning is basically the god/soul/spirit/energy/vibrations etc. in me recognizes/honors the same in you. Kinda "woo woo", metaphysical, spiritual, yoga-ish, quantum physics, string theory, etc. etc.!

Many times you'll see it verbalized with a physical gesture of hands in front, palms together with fingers pointing upward and a bow of the head and heads simultaneously. I will often use the gesture alone as a thank you. I'm no guru, just really like it! Fits real nicely with my ethics, beliefs and values which is why my handle and eventual studio name is Vibrations. I guess I'm just an old helpless hippie throw back and proud of it! Glad you asked.
Namaste

Awesome!! I've been into zen, physics, cosmology, eastern philosophy, Ect lately as I've made some significant life changes a year and a half ago. I've been listening to talks/teachings of Alan Watts a lot lately. He bridges the gap between all of those as well as psychology. A very well rounded easy to understand guy. One whose not afraid to give answers. As many in those fields stick with possibilities and more questions. Very cool stuff vibes.!!!

Kyle
You're a very courageous man and deserve a ton of respect as do all here on this forum and others, just trying to get by while doing what they are passionate about and love, and at the same time, being open and willing to share to help others, with no expectations other than helping others to survive in really tough times all around! Over 20 years ago I went through similar struggles as yours K after 30 years of false starts. Had I focused upon my true bliss at that time (MUSIC) rather than ego etc., focused upon all the wrong things, I may have had a smoother path. Guess I needed the AFOFG'S (Another F%!*ing Opportunity For Growth)! At 40 years old it gave me support from family, a new 25 year career, a home, a new blended family, and enough finances to finally return to my foundation and perhaps do what I have always loved most for my remaining years. I will have to live on Social Security Retirement and what I can get out of the studio along with a back up of a reverse mortgage if I can swing it. I do love providing psycho-emotional therapy but I feel I've reached the end of that path even though I could continue for years to come.

So to bring it back, even though I'm often stuck in the analog world, with lacking experience there as well, I see what others here are doing to get the biggest bang for their buck while producing the best sounds they can with what they have, embracing all available avenues. Seeing what Donny has achieved and others are doing gives me hope. I'm always amazed at the willingness of so many experienced, skilled and knowledgeable folks to freely share and encourage! I haven't had the chance to crank up my Samp Pro X2 suite yet and integrate it into my 2 DAW growing set up and barely feel worthy! My focus is elsewhere to fund these latest gear commitments.

K, I want you to know that you are one of those people here that consistently provide beneficial support to me with your experience and process. FWIW, if you ever have a desire to pursue more discussion or resources about the connectivity of so much we don't we don't know, I always enjoy a healthy soul/mind expanding conversation (PM). Alan Watts is one of many I just love to hear/read! Bottom line universal truth for me is the more I learn the more I know I don't know.
You're a standup guy Kyle! Enjoy the Raman's!LOL! At the risk of sounding too psychobabbley, it only gets better if ya let it man!
Back to lurking for me...
Namaste

vibrations1951, post: 435043, member: 34341 wrote: Seeing what Donny has achieved and others are doing gives me hope.

I'm glad it does, and I appreciate your kind words... but truthfully, I haven't really accomplished anything more than what any of my other same- generational colleagues or peers here have.

I'm certainly not as financially secure as I'd hoped to be by this age; and recent personal developments have made things even tougher. Accolades and awards are nice ... sure, it's always nice to be acknowledged by one's peers for our accomplishments, but you can't eat awards, and my mortgage company doesn't accept them as payment, either. ;)

Honestly, making a living as an audio engineer, or owning your own mid-level facility has never been tougher, has never had less chances for success than right now.

If you enter into this biz, you need to know going in that you're not gonna get rich, and in most cases, you'll need to pad that income with something else just in order to live on a scale to what most of us would consider to be "fairly comfortable". It's not like it used to be, it's not even close. There was a time when I ( and guys just like me who came up at the same time and worked really hard) was able to buy cars, boats, motorcycles, pay my mortgage, my utility bills, eat very well, and still have money left over for gear upgrades - and even a nice vacation here and there, too - all from being an engineer and owning my own mid-level studio(s). I remember one week in 1988, walking around with about $ 2000 in uncashed checks in my pockets because I hadn't had time to get to the bank, because I was working 60-70 hours a week doing sessions. I had so much work that I was actually turning it down... These days, you'll be lucky just to be able to make your rent doing this job.

Those who remain successful in this business have found a niche of some kind, a specialized service that few others in their area offers. In my own heyday, I made most of my money engineering for solo artists and songwriters. Because I had the gear, because I had the engineering knowledge, because I was skilled with MIDI, and because underneath all of that I was also fluent on 5 instruments ( and vocals), and a pretty decent arranger, too, I was able to produce solo artists - those who would bring me ideas on matchbooks and cocktail napkins, and who could strum a few chords on a guitar, and I could send them out the door, 10 hours later, with a completely finished song - arranged, recorded, mixed, and ready for press or broadcast. I made a LOT of money offering that service for many years. I also had 4 - 6 corporate accounts at any one time that paid BIG money, every month or two, and it was easy work. I'd work around 15 hours a month on each account, and bill out at $ 2000 - each.

But that doesn't shake-out anymore. Everyone has their own "studio" now. Everyone thinks that they can do it all themselves, regardless of whether they even know which end of a mic to sing into, and the quality of both music and fidelity have suffered greatly on a mass scale because of that mindset. They don't see that it's not the same as working with experienced and knowledgeable engineers and musicians, and because the bulk of what they currently hear sounds "fine" to them ( mediocrity has become commonplace and acceptable), they don't want to spend the money to have professionals do it for them, because they don't think the difference is worth it.

Several things have become polar opposites as to what they used to be... It ain't 1982 anymore, ( or even 1992 for that matter) when the ratio of studios-to-clients was still around 1/50. That ratio has been flipped. Now you have 50 little studios for every client. It used to be that talented people created art, and technology was used in a way to enhance and support that talent and art. Now it's reversed, and technology has become a way to create "art", to artificially create "talent" ... often where very little of either exists to begin with.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone here from following their dream or passion. If it makes you happy, if it fulfills you, then you absolutely should. It's very important to be happy in what you do for a living. But there also needs to be a momentary look at the logic and reason of it all, and a realistic current view of what this business is about now, so that those who do choose this path are going into it with their eyes wide open, and with a realistic sense of what is really happening out there these days.

IMO, of course. ;)

DonnyThompson, post: 435047, member: 46114 wrote: I'm glad it does, and I appreciate your kind words... but truthfully, I haven't really accomplished anything more than what any of my other same- generational colleagues or peers here have.

I'm certainly not as financially secure as I'd hoped to be by this age; and recent personal developments have made things even tougher. Accolades and awards are nice ... sure, it's always nice to be acknowledged by one's peers for our accomplishments, but you can't eat awards, and my mortgage company doesn't accept them as payment, either. ;)

Honestly, making a living as an audio engineer, or owning your own mid-level facility has never been tougher, has never had less chances for success than right now.

If you enter into this biz, you need to know going in that you're not gonna get rich, and in most cases, you'll need to pad that income with something else just in order to live on a scale to what most of us would consider to be "fairly comfortable". It's not like it used to be, it's not even close. There was a time when I ( and guys just like me who came up at the same time and worked really hard) was able to buy cars, boats, motorcycles, pay my mortgage, my utility bills, eat very well, and still have money left over for gear upgrades - and even a nice vacation here and there, too - all from being an engineer and owning my own mid-level studio(s). I remember one week in 1988, walking around with about $ 2000 in uncashed checks in my pockets because I hadn't had time to get to the bank, because I was working 60-70 hours a week doing sessions. I had so much work that I was actually turning it down... These days, you'll be lucky just to be able to make your rent doing this job.

Those who remain successful in this business have found a niche of some kind, a specialized service that few others in their area offers. In my own heyday, I made most of my money engineering for solo artists and songwriters. Because I had the gear, because I had the engineering knowledge, because I was skilled with MIDI, and because underneath all of that I was also fluent on 5 instruments ( and vocals), and a pretty decent arranger, too, I was able to produce solo artists - those who would bring me ideas on matchbooks and cocktail napkins, and who could strum a few chords on a guitar, and I could send them out the door, 10 hours later, with a completely finished song - arranged, recorded, mixed, and ready for press or broadcast. I made a LOT of money offering that service for many years. I also had 4 - 6 corporate accounts at any one time that paid BIG money, every month or two, and it was easy work. I'd work around 15 hours a month on each account, and bill out at $ 2000 - each.

But that doesn't shake-out anymore. Everyone has their own "studio" now. Everyone thinks that they can do it all themselves, regardless of whether they even know which end of a mic to sing into, and the quality of both music and fidelity have suffered greatly on a mass scale because of that mindset. They don't see that it's not the same as working with experienced and knowledgeable engineers and musicians, and because the bulk of what they currently hear sounds "fine" to them ( mediocrity has become commonplace and acceptable), they don't want to spend the money to have professionals do it for them, because they don't think the difference is worth it.

Several things have become polar opposites as to what they used to be... It ain't 1982 anymore, ( or even 1992 for that matter) when the ratio of studios-to-clients was still around 1/50. That ratio has been flipped. Now you have 50 little studios for every client. It used to be that talented people created art, and technology was used in a way to enhance and support that talent and art. Now it's reversed, and technology has become a way to create "art", to artificially create "talent" ... often where very little of either exists to begin with.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone here from following their dream or passion. If it makes you happy, if it fulfills you, then you absolutely should. It's very important to be happy in what you do for a living. But there also needs to be a momentary look at the logic and reason of it all, and a realistic current view of what this business is about now, so that those who do choose this path are going into it with their eyes wide open, and with a realistic sense of what is really happening out there these days.

IMO, of course. ;)

YUP YUP YUP! Thanks Donny, a good dose of reality I've had to accept for a while now. I can't help but think that generally speaking, history has shown that when things get bad enough change occurs. Not always for the better but change nonetheless. At the risk of sounding like a Pollyanna, maybe we're at a bottoming out, headed for a door closing with a better one opening...?

Maybe I'll live long enough to experience it in this business or not. I'm fortunate that I don't have to plan on this being my primary means of financial support as you and other's here. I admire your attempts at survival and as far as I can tell it's happening everywhere. We seem to be in a climate of lack of ethics, respect/remunerations for experience, knowledgebase and skill with a higher value placed upon when to think rather than how. Just follow the money to see who really benefits! Smell the coffee right?!!

Either way, the great sharing and support that takes place on this forum can only help enhance and preserve positive vibrations of all sorts, and just maybe a little shelter and food sometimes. I daily work for children, adults and families who don't know where/ if the next meal or bed will come from, and to no fault of their own, but ya know what, they all take solace in music because sometimes, that's all they got to feel better. Helps me keep perspective!
....sorry for digressing.....Thanks again Donny for keepin' it real!
Namaste.

Reading some of the posts here from members and from my own experience, I think that it is safe to say that being an audio engineer is being part of a dying breed.

1991 was the year I enrolled in my audio engineering course, I was a muso and having a love of all things audio and being somewhat tech savvy I thought it was the logical thing to do. DAWs, if they were even referred to as such back then were a new novelty.
I had only seen one that was on one of those early macs that was about a foot high and 6 inches wide with the built-in screen.

I remember our lecturer, an old school hippie from England who had been in audio since the early 60s' showed us an early DAW program..."its the future for music..." he would say with glee, with all the enthusiasm of a kid in a lolly shop. I scoffed at the thought, after all, we were using analog consoles and 2 inch tape, that was what they were teaching us and that was the way it had always been, and always would be...so I thought.
Little did I know coming out of that course how things would change so much over the coming years.

After completing the course I continued down the track as a muso rather than putting all that newly aquired knowledge to better use. As a muso I thought that it would be an advantage to know all this stuff, after all it means that you have to pay one less guy at a gig if you know the back end stuff, so a career in audio engineering took a back seat to performing and a regular 9 to 5 job that paid the bills. There was the odd gig here and there doing FOH stuff for other bands I knew, but apart from that nothing I would call a career out of the knowledge I had gained.

Fast forward nearly 20 years, sick and tired of having to deal with wanna-be rock star egos, a decline in live music venues, venue owners who expect you to invite 100+ facebook followers before they let you play in their sh*ithole and then expect you to play for beers, dingy over-priced rehersal rooms that smell like a cats' litter box and dealing with people whose only view of music is a 3 hour weekly escape from their nagging wife and mundane lives, I'd just about had enough.
I thought f*ck that...I don't have to rely on others when it comes to my music, and the desire to get back into the recording side of things seemed like a good idea.

It was an eye-opener for me getting back into engineering to see how far technology has come in that 25 years...and Donnys' right, its opened the door for those with no talent or ability to make music, and the music is whats suffered. And in the end we all suffer because of it.
I remember a time when you would book a studio every night for a week to record, and the drummer having to do take after take after take to get it right. One time the first two nights were just getting the drum and bass tracks down, get it right or start again...you had to know your sh*t,...one drummer I know did 60 takes all night until the engineer was satisfied the drum track was acceptable. You'd come out of that studio and it was daylight...you'd then have to go to your day job and be back there at 7pm to do it all over again. Every night for a week. Sleep was a luxury you couldn't afford apart from a lunch break at work.

Now its plug and play, if its no good you can just edit that sh*t out. No more doing take after take after take until you get it right.
Is it a good thing?...that depends which side of the fence you are on I suppose. Practice makes perfect, but who needs practice, right?
I look back at how far things have come in the past 25 years and I wonder where its all going. I can't imagine where it will be in another 25 years, who knows.
Its getting to the point where you don't even need to be able to play an instrument to make music. Whats' next??

I know one thing for sure, those that have the knowledge and experience to call themselves an audio engineer are a diminishing breed in todays' environment, custodians of knowledge that is slowly being lost to fewer and fewer. Thank god for RO where that knowledge can be passed on to those that want to learn the craft.
Many people in todays' want it now, fast-paced Macmusic culture wouldn't even invest the time, money or energy to study this field like so many before them did, let alone practice a craft night after night doing the hard yards in dingy back street dives getting paid next to nothing, playing to three people and a dog with fleas just to enable you to become better at what you do.
For the love of it and the desire to be the best you can be?...it must have been...
'cause I still had to get up the next day to go to work a regular job to help pay the bills.

Society wants their music like they want their coffee or cheeseburger, on demand and now.
In an online on demand on the clock world no-one has time to think about yesterday, let alone what happened last week. Its all about the here and now.
Blink and you miss it.
FOMO culture abounds and surrounds us. A world that seems to be obsessed with what the next download will be, the next fad, the next big thing, whos' wearing what and whos' banging who, whos' friending who on facebook and whos' in the news. Somebody pisses on a canvas and somebody else calls it art...theres' no time to pause for quality in todays' world.
Quality equals time and time equals money in todays' world, a world where we all pray to the altar where a crucifix has been replaced by a dollar sign.

And a casualty of all this is the quality of music that proliferates modern life. Another casualty, our eardrums.
No more investing in a quality product that takes time to produce, was created in a great room by great people through great gear.
Today it can be made in an instant like coffee in a bedroom with a closet for a vocal booth...for next to nothing and in no less than an hour.

I look back on those 25 years and a part of me is sad that I didn't use what I learned back then to forge a career as an engineer in the industry, all that additional knowledge and experience foregone. But a part of me is thankfull I didn't, given the current state of the industry. Maybe I'm unlucky, maybe I'm lucky, who knows.

Call me cynical, but thats my 2 cents...

vibrations1951, post: 435043, member: 34341 wrote: Kyle
You're a very courageous man and deserve a ton of respect as do all here on this forum and others, just trying to get by while doing what they are passionate about and love, and at the same time, being open and willing to share to help others, with no expectations other than helping others to survive in really tough times all around! Over 20 years ago I went through similar struggles as yours K after 30 years of false starts. Had I focused upon my true bliss at that time (MUSIC) rather than ego etc., focused upon all the wrong things, I may have had a smoother path. Guess I needed the AFOFG'S (Another F%!*ing Opportunity For Growth)! At 40 years old it gave me support from family, a new 25 year career, a home, a new blended family, and enough finances to finally return to my foundation and perhaps do what I have always loved most for my remaining years. I will have to live on Social Security Retirement and what I can get out of the studio along with a back up of a reverse mortgage if I can swing it. I do love providing psycho-emotional therapy but I feel I've reached the end of that path even though I could continue for years to come.

So to bring it back, even though I'm often stuck in the analog world, with lacking experience there as well, I see what others here are doing to get the biggest bang for their buck while producing the best sounds they can with what they have, embracing all available avenues. Seeing what Donny has achieved and others are doing gives me hope. I'm always amazed at the willingness of so many experienced, skilled and knowledgeable folks to freely share and encourage! I haven't had the chance to crank up my Samp Pro X2 suite yet and integrate it into my 2 DAW growing set up and barely feel worthy! My focus is elsewhere to fund these latest gear commitments.

K, I want you to know that you are one of those people here that consistently provide beneficial support to me with your experience and process. FWIW, if you ever have a desire to pursue more discussion or resources about the connectivity of so much we don't we don't know, I always enjoy a healthy soul/mind expanding conversation (PM). Alan Watts is one of many I just love to hear/read! Bottom line universal truth for me is the more I learn the more I know I don't know.
You're a standup guy Kyle! Enjoy the Raman's!LOL! At the risk of sounding too psychobabbley, it only gets better if ya let it man!
Back to lurking for me...
Namaste

Your too kind vibes. I've always respected your willingness to learn, and respect anyone who's dedicated and crazy enough to build one of rod Gervias monsters!! It's great that your hard work is paying off for you. A satisfied soul leaves little to be desired!!! Cheers buddy.
May I add Donny is extremely talanted. I've heard engineers, who were peers from his time, who have racks of gear and professionally tunes and built studios produce stuff not to Ds quality on his modest rig. Belive me some will talk about how good they are, there gear is, or how many record label have their name on it. The final product speaks for itself.

DonnyThompson, post: 435047, member: 46114 wrote: I'm glad it does, and I appreciate your kind words... but truthfully, I haven't really accomplished anything more than what any of my other same- generational colleagues or peers here have.

I'm certainly not as financially secure as I'd hoped to be by this age; and recent personal developments have made things even tougher. Accolades and awards are nice ... sure, it's always nice to be acknowledged by one's peers for our accomplishments, but you can't eat awards, and my mortgage company doesn't accept them as payment, either. ;)

Honestly, making a living as an audio engineer, or owning your own mid-level facility has never been tougher, has never had less chances for success than right now.

If you enter into this biz, you need to know going in that you're not gonna get rich, and in most cases, you'll need to pad that income with something else just in order to live on a scale to what most of us would consider to be "fairly comfortable". It's not like it used to be, it's not even close. There was a time when I ( and guys just like me who came up at the same time and worked really hard) was able to buy cars, boats, motorcycles, pay my mortgage, my utility bills, eat very well, and still have money left over for gear upgrades - and even a nice vacation here and there, too - all from being an engineer and owning my own mid-level studio(s). I remember one week in 1988, walking around with about $ 2000 in uncashed checks in my pockets because I hadn't had time to get to the bank, because I was working 60-70 hours a week doing sessions. I had so much work that I was actually turning it down... These days, you'll be lucky just to be able to make your rent doing this job.

Those who remain successful in this business have found a niche of some kind, a specialized service that few others in their area offers. In my own heyday, I made most of my money engineering for solo artists and songwriters. Because I had the gear, because I had the engineering knowledge, because I was skilled with MIDI, and because underneath all of that I was also fluent on 5 instruments ( and vocals), and a pretty decent arranger, too, I was able to produce solo artists - those who would bring me ideas on matchbooks and cocktail napkins, and who could strum a few chords on a guitar, and I could send them out the door, 10 hours later, with a completely finished song - arranged, recorded, mixed, and ready for press or broadcast. I made a LOT of money offering that service for many years. I also had 4 - 6 corporate accounts at any one time that paid BIG money, every month or two, and it was easy work. I'd work around 15 hours a month on each account, and bill out at $ 2000 - each.

But that doesn't shake-out anymore. Everyone has their own "studio" now. Everyone thinks that they can do it all themselves, regardless of whether they even know which end of a mic to sing into, and the quality of both music and fidelity have suffered greatly on a mass scale because of that mindset. They don't see that it's not the same as working with experienced and knowledgeable engineers and musicians, and because the bulk of what they currently hear sounds "fine" to them ( mediocrity has become commonplace and acceptable), they don't want to spend the money to have professionals do it for them, because they don't think the difference is worth it.

Several things have become polar opposites as to what they used to be... It ain't 1982 anymore, ( or even 1992 for that matter) when the ratio of studios-to-clients was still around 1/50. That ratio has been flipped. Now you have 50 little studios for every client. It used to be that talented people created art, and technology was used in a way to enhance and support that talent and art. Now it's reversed, and technology has become a way to create "art", to artificially create "talent" ... often where very little of either exists to begin with.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone here from following their dream or passion. If it makes you happy, if it fulfills you, then you absolutely should. It's very important to be happy in what you do for a living. But there also needs to be a momentary look at the logic and reason of it all, and a realistic current view of what this business is about now, so that those who do choose this path are going into it with their eyes wide open, and with a realistic sense of what is really happening out there these days.

IMO, of course. ;)

Your pretty much the only engineer I know who worked through that era, who's niche was producing songwriters like that. A sort of one stop shop. In many ways you were way ahead of the times, as in this DAW era, many many people are singing over tracks that another person eh hem, 'created'.

I will say that I belive the magic of group creativity is once again on the horizon. This time it's across the world in realtime over the Internet. As soon as that becomes accessable, as avid has started, and source connect has, to the mainstream, we can have world wide mediocrity! Lol I mean sparks of genius. While the energy of being in the room can never be duplicated, collabs from people's own studios where they are comfortable and relaxed has something to offer.

I'll never forget in high school where I used to kinda half ditch half be permitted to leave music class and play one of the guitars in a little practice booth. I thought I was decent, and had some soul w a few blues licks... This random kid who barely spoke English, from like South America or the Amazon or something ask to jam. Sure I said, within minutes he goes nah nah, check this out. And I say there for quite some time listening to this kid play so eloquently, right from the heart some standards from his culture. It was a beautiful moment.

Sean G, post: 435075, member: 49362 wrote: Reading some of the posts here from members and from my own experience, I think that it is safe to say that being an audio engineer is being part of a dying breed.

1991 was the year I enrolled in my audio engineering course, I was a muso and having a love of all things audio and being somewhat tech savvy I thought it was the logical thing to do. DAWs, if they were even referred to as such back then were a new novelty.
I had only seen one that was on one of those early macs that was about a foot high and 6 inches wide with the built-in screen.

I remember our lecturer, an old school hippie from England who had been in audio since the early 60s' showed us an early DAW program..."its the future for music..." he would say with glee, with all the enthusiasm of a kid in a lolly shop. I scoffed at the thought, after all, we were using analog consoles and 2 inch tape, that was what they were teaching us and that was the way it had always been, and always would be...so I thought.
Little did I know coming out of that course how things would change so much over the coming years.

After completing the course I continued down the track as a muso rather than putting all that newly aquired knowledge to better use. As a muso I thought that it would be an advantage to know all this stuff, after all it means that you have to pay one less guy at a gig if you know the back end stuff, so a career in audio engineering took a back seat to performing and a regular 9 to 5 job that paid the bills. There was the odd gig here and there doing FOH stuff for other bands I knew, but apart from that nothing I would call a career out of the knowledge I had gained.

Fast forward nearly 20 years, sick and tired of having to deal with wanna-be rock star egos, a decline in live music venues, venue owners who expect you to invite 100+ facebook followers before they let you play in their sh*ithole and then expect you to play for beers, dingy over-priced rehersal rooms that smell like a cats' litter box and dealing with people whose only view of music is a 3 hour weekly escape from their nagging wife and mundane lives, I'd just about had enough.
I thought f*ck that...I don't have to rely on others when it comes to my music, and the desire to get back into the recording side of things seemed like a good idea.

It was an eye-opener for me getting back into engineering to see how far technology has come in that 25 years...and Donnys' right, its opened the door for those with no talent or ability to make music, and the music is whats suffered. And in the end we all suffer because of it.
I remember a times when you would book a studio every night for a week to record, and drummer having to do take after take after take to get it right. One time the first two nights were just getting the drum and bass tracks down, get it right or start again...you had to know your sh*t...one drummer I know did 60 takes all night until the engineer was satisfied the drum track was acceptable. You'd come out of that studio and it was daylight...you'd then have to go to your day job and be back there at 7pm to do it all over again. Every night for a week. Sleep was a luxury you couldn't afford apart from a lunch break at work.

Now its plug and play, if its no good you can just edit that sh*t out. No more doing take after take after take until you get it right.
Is it a good thing?...that depends which side of the fence you are on I suppose. Practice makes perfect, but who needs practice, right?
I look back at how far things have come in the past 25 years and I wonder where its all going. I can't imagine where it will be in another 25 years, who knows.
Its getting to the point where you don't even need to be able to play an instrument to make music. Whats' next??

I know one thing for sure, those that have the knowledge and experience to call themselves an audio engineer are a diminishing breed in todays' environment, custodians of knowledge that is slowly being lost to fewer and fewer. Thank god for RO where that knowledge can be passed on to those that want to learn the craft.
Many people in todays' want it now, fast-paced Macmusic culture wouldn't even invest the time, money or energy to study this field like so many before them did.

Society wants their music like they want their coffee or cheeseburger, on demand and now.
And the first casualty of all this is the quality of music that proliferates modern life.
No more investing in a quality product that takes time to produce, was created in a great room by great people through great gear.
Today it can be made in an instant like coffee in a bedroom with a closet for a vocal booth...for next to nothing and in no less than an hour.

I look back on those 25 years and a part of me is sad that I didn't use what I learned back then to forge a career as an engineer in the industry, all that additional knowledge and experience foregone. But a part of me is thankfull I didn't, given the current state of the industry. Maybe I'm unlucky, maybe I'm lucky, who knows.

Call me cynical, but thats my 2 cents...

Geez Sean, that's well put man. I'm familiar w the better bring your whole Facebook clan, and you'll earn beer gigs. It's why I've shyed from performing and have retired from bar sound gigs. No permanent install? I can put one in for ya, otherwise play a place that does or find another guy. Not that I'm ungrateful, any money for this job is good, but really it's just not worth it at a point.

Lmaoooooo 6ft Mac. Too much man, too much.
How bout the club actually promote itself, or hire a headliner to bring a crowd in for the minion bands.

Fwiw, my engineering isn't really the breadwinner, it's a bonus. I've done a ton of free recording over the years for fun. If I didn't do gear installs and tech support, or build studios for people I'd still be pushing carragies or delivering pizzas.
My niche has been the studio construction. It's a market that has burst wide open as of late. I'm 7 years strong without having a 'job' job. The caveat that I've paid for all my living expenses, beside rent. The mortgage will be a different experience. It was all chance, just from my cousin wanting a home studio and me finding rods book on Amazon, when trying to figure HTF to make a studio.
In essence I'm feeing off of the new wave of mediocrity.

RO RULES! It's a real sense of community here. Chris runs a tight ship but doesn't discriminate.

Keep it going full speed full speed fellas!

Sean G, post: 435075, member: 49362 wrote:
I remember a times when you would book a studio every night for a week to record, and drummer having to do take after take after take to get it right. One time the first two nights were just getting the drum and bass tracks down, get it right or start again...you had to know your sh*t...one drummer I know did 60 takes all night until the engineer was satisfied the drum track was acceptable. You'd come out of that studio and it was daylight...you'd then have to go to your day job and be back there at 7pm to do it all over again. Every night for a week. Sleep was a luxury you couldn't afford apart from a lunch break at work.

Now its plug and play, if its no good you can just edit that sh*t out. No more doing take after take after take until you get it right.
Is it a good thing?...that depends which side of the fence you are on I suppose. Practice makes perfect, but who needs practice, right?
I look back at how far things have come in the past 25 years and I wonder where its all going. I can't imagine where it will be in another 25 years, who knows.
Its getting to the point where you don't even need to be able to play an instrument to make music. Whats' next??

I know one thing for sure, those that have the knowledge and experience to call themselves an audio engineer are a diminishing breed in todays' environment, custodians of knowledge that is slowly being lost to fewer and fewer. Thank god for RO where that knowledge can be passed on to those that want to learn the craft.
Many people in todays' want it now, fast-paced Macmusic culture wouldn't even invest the time, money or energy to study this field like so many before them did.

As a self-taught musician, editing/mastering my own stuff, and having come about 1000X further than I ever would have if not for the invention of the DAW and the DI, I would agree with most of what you have to say. But I should say that for every vocal or instrument take you will hear in any of my recordings there are AT LEAST 1000 takes that were tossed before I got there. And as regards Electronic dance music and all things 'rap', I would also agree that it has become possible for people with no musical ability or aptitude to (over)produce a lot of crap. Unfortunately there has always been a majority of people whose taste runs toward the most banal, and the most commercially made crap imaginable. The DAW has taken that monopoly away from Disney.

kmetal, post: 435078, member: 37533 wrote: I will say that I belive the magic of group creativity is once again on the horizon.

I'd love to believe that, Kyle. Time will tell, although I don't know if I'll still be here to see it. ;)

kmetal, post: 435078, member: 37533 wrote: "May I add Donny is extremely talanted. I've heard engineers, who were peers from his time, who have racks of gear and professionally tunes and built studios produce stuff not to Ds quality on his modest rig. Belive me some will talk about how good they are, there gear is, or how many record label have their name on it. The final product speaks for itself."

"Your pretty much the only engineer I know who worked through that era, who's niche was producing songwriters like that..."

You're far too kind, K ... but I'm certainly not the only one here from "those" days who has done that kind of work ( I know for a fact that Chris also has an extensive history with this type of solo artist production assistance, too) and as far as overall experience, Chris, Bos, Kurt, Tom Bethel, Dave, Paul, ( audiokid Boswell Kurt Foster Thomas W. Bethel Davedog paulears - unless I'm mistaken , are all also from that era originally ... ( and I'm not intentionally leaving anyone out, gang... I'm just naming guys off the top of my head whom I know to have come from that era )... in fact, if anyone, Boswell is probably the most experienced audio engineer here on RO - but we have many "veterans" here on RO, people who remember what it was like to spool a reel of 1/4" onto a 15ips half-track mixdown deck ... and who remember what things used to be like - both the good ... and the not-so-good. ;)

But .. we have many younger engineers here who are just as knowledgeable in what they do as what the "veterans" among us once did.

I've not done anything differently than any of these guys; my colleagues here .... in many ways, are far more knowledgeable than I am. That's the great thing about RO - it brings together people of all eras, who can all contribute, through their own styles, workflows, specialty knowledge and experiences. For example, K - guys like you and Brien H. ( @Brien Holcombe ) know more about acoustics than I could ever even hope to know. Marco ( pcrecord brings his vast amount of knowledge in computers and audio-related technology, and integrates it with classic pre's like Focusrite's and UA's to achieve his own sound.

Chris? Well, Chris is a #*&@ -ing rock, our leader, our very own "guy-in-the-know" about what's hot - and what's not so hot - and he tests these new ideas and methods using actual music to do so, and is not the least bit shy about sharing his experiences, or cutting through the BS - even if it goes against the grain of what the "popular" accepted methods and workflows are! We need that here. We need someone to be able to tell these truths, to cut through the BS that is so prevalent out there these days... we need someone like Chris to step up and say, "You don't need a $ 3000 digital clock in order to make great-sounding music! " .... even if it pisses-off a multitude of people who have just bought one. ;) LOL

I would have never even considered the 2 DAW method had it not been for him - and he took a fair amount of crap for it, too. I also wouldn't have ever tried Samplitude had he not beat me over the head with an LA2A and forced me to at least try it. LOL

Think about what we have here - we have guys who's experience goes back to the 60's, and we have modern day hi-tech gurus. We have guys who love transparency, we have guys who love color ... guys who prefer tubes, and guys who prefer transformers... and guys who prefer neither. We have members who are accomplished musicians - most of whom were so before they decided that they also wanted to be engineers, and who brought that musical talent with them, marrying it to technology.

We have members who can solder in their sleep, who can read complex schematics like the average person reads the funny papers. We have digital experts, we have MIDI experts, we have analog experts. We have acoustics experts. We have guys who love tape machines and consoles and guys who are 100% ITB... and we have guys who have integrated both.

I've visited many recording forums over the years - going way back to the early 90's when I was still using dial-up to connect, LOL, searching newsgroups, AOL chat rooms, etc., and out of the hundreds of audio related sites I've visited over the last 20 years or so, I've found two - TWO - places that I found to be valuable ( priceless) sources of information and experience. RO is one of the two.

We're all in this together, and we all share a love and passion for a craft which has suffered over the past decade or so, and yeah, sometimes it does appear as though it's barely breathing - but as long as there are people who can keep it alive, as long as there are even just a handful of us left who know how to place microphones, how to set gain structure, how to listen with our ears instead of with our eyes, how to pay attention to that which is most important - producing great sounding music - then it's not dead. ;)

FWIW

-d.

DonnyThompson, post: 435095, member: 46114 wrote: You're far too kind, K ... but I'm certainly not the only one here from "those" days who has done that kind of work ( I know for a fact that Chris also has an extensive history with this type of solo artist production assistance, too) and as far as overall experience, Chris, Bos, Kurt, Tom Bethel, Dave, Paul, ( audiokid Boswell Kurt Foster Thomas W. Bethel Davedog paulears - unless I'm mistaken , are all also from that era originally ... ( and I'm not intentionally leaving anyone out, gang... I'm just naming guys off the top of my head whom I know to have come from that era )... in fact, if anyone, Boswell is probably the most experienced audio engineer here on RO - but we have many "veterans" here on RO, people who remember what it was like to spool a reel of 1/4" onto a 15ips half-track mixdown deck ... and who remember what things used to be like - both the good ... and the not-so-good. ;)

But .. we have many younger engineers here who are just as knowledgeable in what they do as what the "veterans" among us once did.

I've not done anything differently than any of these guys; my colleagues here .... in many ways, are far more knowledgeable than I am. That's the great thing about RO - it brings together people of all eras, who can all contribute, through their own styles, workflows, specialty knowledge and experiences. For example, K - guys like you and Brien H. ( @Brien Holcombe ) know more about acoustics than I could ever even hope to know. Marco ( pcrecord brings his vast amount of knowledge in computers and audio-related technology, and integrates it with classic pre's like Focusrite's and UA's to achieve his own sound.

Chris? Well, Chris is a #*&@ -ing rock, our leader, our very own "guy-in-the-know" about what's hot - and what's not so hot - and he tests these new ideas and methods using actual music to do so, and is not the least bit shy about sharing his experiences, or cutting through the BS - even if it goes against the grain of what the "popular" accepted methods and workflows are! We need that here. We need someone to be able to tell these truths, to cut through the BS that is so prevalent out there these days... we need someone like Chris to step up and say, "You don't need a $ 3000 digital clock in order to make great-sounding music! " .... even if it pisses-off a multitude of people who have just bought one. ;) LOL

I would have never even considered the 2 DAW method had it not been for him - and he took a fair amount of crap for it, too. I also wouldn't have ever tried Samplitude had he not beat me over the head with an LA2A and forced me to at least try it. LOL

Think about what we have here - we have guys who's experience goes back to the 60's, and we have modern day hi-tech gurus. We have guys who love transparency, we have guys who love color ... guys who prefer tubes, and guys who prefer transformers... and guys who prefer neither. We have members who are accomplished musicians - most of whom were so before they decided that they also wanted to be engineers, and who brought that musical talent with them, marrying it to technology.

We have members who can solder in their sleep, who can read complex schematics like the average person reads the funny papers. We have digital experts, we have MIDI experts, we have analog experts. We have acoustics experts. We have guys who love tape machines and consoles and guys who are 100% ITB... and we have guys who have integrated both.

I've visited many recording forums over the years - going way back to the early 90's when I was still using dial-up to connect, LOL, searching newsgroups, AOL chat rooms, etc., and out of the hundreds of audio related sites I've visited over the last 20 years or so, I've found two - TWO - places that I found to be valuable ( priceless) sources of information and experience. RO is one of the two.

We're all in this together, and we all share a love and passion for a craft which has suffered over the past decade or so, and yeah, sometimes it does appear as though it's barely breathing - but as long as there are people who can keep it alive, as long as there are even just a handful of us left who know how to place microphones, how to set gain structure, how to listen with our ears instead of with our eyes, how to pay attention to that which is most important - producing great sounding music - then it's not dead. ;)

FWIW

As long as there is at least one of us left standing to breathe life into this thing we call AE....it will never die;)

Just FYI this is the computer I got. It's still $ 650 at Best Buy, so maybe I rushed a bit. Just every computer I eyed lately went up $ 100 the next week lol.

compression ceilings

Kyle, that link did not work, but I looked up the item number and it led to this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883798488&Tpk=83-798-488

Is that the one?

Terry