Thanks thor, I'm hearing you!

I just received the A Design Nail for a test run and it's a Hybrid Design to my surprise (Tube and Solid State) and is it ever nice! So there you go, never assume. I spent the day with it and after 30 min I was hearing the love. It can be quite aggressive or subtle. I stuck with subtle for starters , set my gains and heard the glue happening right away. Its very versatile. Works great on the 2-bus for sure, and quiet as well; very important.
This is a very cool compressor. KUDO's Peter, I love this thing.

I Just received an email from a guy with a used STC-8 M. Now I'm having fun.I hope my wife doesn't read this thread. smoke

Just got the update on this used STC-8 from a fellow that inherited it. It looks a bit grimy. The owner says its the Mastering version.

many other pots are denteded as well. the ones below...like attack and release are not

This sounds like the H version yes? I'm very reluctant buying used..

audiokid, post: 379639 wrote: Just got the update on this used STC-8 from a fellow that inherited it. It looks a bit grimy. The owner says its the Mastering version.

This sounds like the H version yes? I'm very reluctant buying used..

The only detented knobs on the "H" version would be the presets knob and the output gain, nothing else. Could be a custom semi-mastering version, but who knows.

Last question on the STC-8 I think.

John, you mentioned recall. How does the recall work and how many recalls do you have? I'm thinking pots moving like the SPL (PQ 2050) Are the pots motorized, but they are stepped? Is there a remote?

audiokid, post: 379649 wrote: Last question on the STC-8 I think.

John, you mentioned recall. How does the recall work and how many recalls do you have? I'm thinking pots moving like the SPL (PQ 2050) Are the pots motorized, but they are stepped? Is there a remote?

I'm not John but I play one on TV...

There are no motorized pots on the STC-8. When John mentioned "recall" he meant the ability to reset the pots to the same positions by way of the detents.

hehe, well you haven't seen recall until you've seen the SPL PQ then. That is what I call recall in the 21's century :tongue:. Okay, I'm getting the complete picture now. So, this STC-8 I'm looking at must be the Mastering version then.

thanks for chiming in acorneau , much appreciated!

audiokid, post: 379662 wrote:
thanks for chiming in acorneau , much appreciated!

Please, call me Allen.

:cool:

Hey audiokid, Talked to John on the phone earlier today and he mentioned that you may be looking for an STC-8/m, I have a 2yr old one in excellent condition with very little use, that, sad to say. doesn't get used enough to justify it sitting in my rack. :frown: Well, not when I could use the $ toward some other gear. If you are interested, PM me.

I'm about to purchase an STC-8 H. But out of curiosity and final thoughts I'm still wondering about some others. I could save up another 6 months or just do this now. oooo that feeling of spending money. smoke

Has anyone here used the innerTUBE Audio Dual Atomic Squeeze Box?

I have used the single channel version of the Atomic Squeeze Box... It's a great piece of gear but pricey. All Stanes stuff is top notch (the Mag mic and U87 retrofit are both awesome) It will do tons of compression without the normal artifacts, kind of like the STC-8, DW VT7, and the GML. not as "sterile" as the GML. IMHO it is probably closest to the VT7, but slightly more transparent... the VT-7 has a certain mojo that I like, the STC-8 is more neutral

Before I take this plunge. Sequoia 12 is near. I'm going to upgrade. It has all I need for ITB tools. Ammunition, which is their killer compressor makes me wonder if I shouldn't be thinking about something with some mojo now. The fearn sounds interesting. I've been researching that for hours. Same with the knif stuff. And the GML , looks great.
http://recording.org/pro-recording-forum/51571-george-massenburg-demonstrates-gml-8900-dynamic.html

This STC-8 H I'm prepared to buy for $3200 is only a year old. I suppose I could sell it for close to that if I didn't like it. But there are quite a few for sale right now that don't seem to be moving ( sign of the times).

Looking back on old threads here, from some of the old vets, so may guys were satisfied with a few but now there are so many opinions and changes. How can this be so different 8 years later?
For me, I find something that works and I usually stick with it and just learn it inside out.
I've read dozen of threads on the STC-8 and Vari Mu. Now those guys that raved about them don't use them.

For me just getting into mastering, why is this? The most consistent engineer I've followed has been John Scrip. You've loved your STC-8 for what, 7 years now?

I've actually had quite a few compressors, but honestly my workhorse for mastering has been a Manley Vari-Mu. I've been using one for the good part of 12 years. The one I have now has been modded... Tbar, s/c filter and a new set of tubes (which added a little extra something) I have a VT-7 and an STC-8/m (both of which Dave Hill designed the compressor circuit) those two are very close as far as sound goes and between those two, I reach for the VT-7 more. I like the way sounds and it is more intuitive to me. However, the VT-7 is not a mastering comp- but I have talked to Doug a few times and he would be willing to do some detented switches instead of pots, at least on some (L and R are linked so you wouldn't need it on all controls). John puts his STC-8 to use a lot more than I, so he may be better suited to discuss the differences between the Manley VM and the Crane Song. At this point I am looking for something that has a little more "punch" so the API 2500 is on my short list.
As far as people changing their minds, I used to love my CL-1b (for years it was my vocal tracking comp) until I got my VT-7, but 80% of the time I still use a distressor (on my short list of "only 1 compressor... deserted island... scenarios") in fact, some of the biggest pop and hip hop records I recorded were with a Distressor (usher, mariah, nelly, etc) but I dont think I would master with them. It's really about using the right tools for the sound you hear.
Most of my clients mix ITB these days, and they seem to like what the vari-mu does for their mixes. For me it seems to polish things a little more, but it does add character to a mix, sometimes its right, sometimes too much. For me, that's when I reach for a vt7 or stc-8. Other people may like the transparency of the stc-8 or gml for day to day use.
Now regarding Sequoia... I'm on a mac so I can't speak on that specifically (although I have heard great things about it) but I have yet to hear a compressor plug that sounded as good as a well designed hardware unit. EQs I'm on the fence about... they have gotten sooo much better in the last few years that I now find myself using them more and more... compressors, they still haven't gotten them 100% right, but that's just my opinion

John Scrip. You've loved your STC-8 for what, 7 years now?

Yep. Very transparent, clean gain, "color" options if you want (and full recall, which I'd still highly suggest). I still use my VariMu when I need it, but it doesn't get nearly the workout as the STC which is more or less "on" before I even start playback. Couldn't tell you the last project it wasn't used on... Some projects, it's the only analog piece in use.

FTR, AM-MUNITION gets a bit of use here as well -- Usually in M/S mode. That thing is a beast.

Hello, I currently mastering ITB and was looking to move into the analog domain. I have my sights set on my first EQ (NSEQ-2 FF) but going back and forth on the compressor. I recently ready many reviews/posts on the Thermionic Culture Phoenix that it is quite versatile, some transparent when set and colored when wanted. I'm looking for a compressor that can bring ITB mix to life, provide that 3D sound and glue the mix well....not really for aggressive compression. But what I read that the Phoenix does better over the Manley is retain detail.

Not sure if anyone has experience with the two unit but by the sounds of it the Phoenix might be a contender as a well rounded mastering compressor.

Hi Mike, welcome.

I looked at that too. Man, there are so many options out there that are close to what I think I need . . . Slow and steady I go on these bigger investments. Buying second hand seems to make more scene. Much easier to recoup your investment if you don't like it. But its also a bit scary buying second hand and also costly being in the Great White North. Shipping is expensive. Insuring gear in transit is expemsive. So, to try anything like this is $200 turn around. Times that by 5 demo's and you have half a second hand API 2500 or almost a Lavry Black.

Its starting to look like there are a couple of dozen contenders and a few real deals for my requirements. My STC-8 H will be here in a few days. Have you considered one?

audiokid, post: 380966 wrote: Hi Mike, welcome.

I looked at that too. Man, there are so many options out there that are close to what I think I need . . . Slow and steady I go on these bigger investments. Buying second hand seems to make more scene. Much easier to recoup your investment if you don't like it. But its also a bit scary buying second hand and also costly being in the Great White North. Shipping is expensive. Insuring gear in transit is expemsive. So, to try anything like this is $200 turn around. Times that by 5 demo's and you have half a second hand API 2500 or almost a Lavry Black.

Its starting to look like there are a couple of dozen contenders and a few real deals for my requirements. My STC-8 H will be here in a few days. Have you considered one?

I have been reading alot of the STC-8 and I will now definitely put it on my short list of compressors. It sounds like the STC-8 (H or M) would be a very good compressor to get as my first analog comp as many ME said it's all-round and versatile in many situations. My main criteria for an analog compressor is to give that final polish, glue and slight character to ITB mixes and it sounds like the STC-8 can do just that as well.

Put my STC-8 through the test tonight. Recorded a beautiful classical singer accompanied by a piano and it was right on. I wasn't sure about this comp but I get it now. I see why you guys love it so much. It will crush without smashing and pumping really well. Very smooth and clean in a great way. Thanks for the recommendation!

Since I chimed in on this thread, I've added the STC-8 H, an LA-2A, The Nail, and an 1176LN which should be here in a few days. I'm shopping around now for an API 2500 and then I should be styling.
The LA-2A is really nice. I couldn't live without that one now. Its amazing on vocals. Highly recommend that one indeed.

Do you feel that the LA-2A sounds or responds that much differently from the transistor LA-3A? Are you really trying to saturate the tubes? Their gain reduction devices are both identical. Transformers may even be similar? And you've got triode's instead of transistors. I don't feel that any of my microphone tube preamps are actually superior to the discrete transistor versions. They sound different, sure. I can't really say that one is all that much better than another. Just different. OK, so I've never really personally played with an LA 2 A. What are you trying to do? Trying to make me more poor than I already am? Of course if I had more business, I'd be thinking more about it. You think there is much difference between the new rerelease vs. the original? I mean why don't we see more tube EMT plates instead of the transistorized ones? I saw an EMT plate recently listed on eBay and it was going for around $500. That's 1/10 what I paid for mine back in 1978. My last one I got $2000 for in 1983. Those still out reverb any electronic reverb today. But I digress.

I need some more business so I can buy an LA-2eh. Which I believe is the Canadian version?
Mx. Remy Ann David

I tent to agree with you on the FET design. I used to be on a big tube kick, especially after owning older pro tools, because it is rash. However, the last few years of upgrading everything, my system is now very open sounding, I don't look for ways to "warm" digital up as much and I use less plug-ins. SS seems to be what I like more.
But the LA2A is the bomb.

I have no idea on comparisons between the LA3. I looked at that but read way too many testimonials on the LA-2A being choice for vocals so I bit, and am I ever glad I did!

I track ( which I've never done before) and mix with it. I love it. Its compression is so subtle I see why so many track with it. Something a plugin will never rival. The tube must give it a subtle vibe and glue factor. Just plugging into it is nice.

I was told it was going up 33% Jan 1st because of build costs and availability of parts is getting more difficult. We know where analog is going and I want it now ... They are now $3500.00, over $4000 in Canada by the time your taxes and shipping are in so that was motivating enough. I now have a classic that I doubt a plug-in will replace. But we know most people that don't have one of these will still say it does.

I don't doubt plug-ins will rival most hardware gear, but, I'm sure years of "old school experience" will guide you to the gear that isn't going to be that simple to replace/ model. Years of reading this game, things that go between your mic and the DAW are the ones I'm collecting. It also seems the choice pieces I'm collecting, are freeing up a large need for eq-ing and other plug-ins that only clutter ITB sound. Less plug-ins the better I say, well at least for some types of music.

STC-8 thumb

This gem is so smooth. I'm so glad I bought it. The guy I got it from had know idea what he just lost. What a deal. Wonderful product.

Oh, yes he did...

Not my cup of tea and this was the second time around, too. I get what I need with other devices (Elysia, Weiss and Pendulum). I'm glad that people enjoy and do good work with the STC8 but I'm not one of them.

Graemme

audiokid, post: 384135 wrote: STC-8 thumb

This gem is so smooth. I'm so glad I bought it. The guy I got it from had know idea what he just lost. What a deal. Wonderful product.

Hi Graemme,

What a nice surprise! You've had two STC-8's and sold both? I'm glad I have one of them. I know it seems boring but it sure seems spot on for classical. Please feel more than welcome to trash it or share your comments?

I had one on extended loan for a year, several years ago. In order to evaluate it again last year ("Surely, I must be missing what everyone else hears???") , I bought one. This being Canada, it's hard to evaluate some gear without actually buying it; so, that's what I did.

There's nothing 'boring' about it...I like boring mastering gear...I'm not a "colour in mastering no matter what" kinda guy and the 'signature' of the STC8 was all too obvious to me. I prefer the sound of the Alpha, even if it is the ugliest compressor ever made. The Pendulum 6386 gives me enough of the 'mu' vibe and has a similar action to the STC8. They don't sound the same; I'm just talking about the sidechain timing and the GR envelope.

I do lots of classical music...and it's the Weiss, a Flux plug-in or (usually) no conventional compression at all.

I'm glad that you're digging it!

Graemme

audiokid, post: 385554 wrote: You've had two STC-8's and sold both? I'm glad I have one of them. I know it seems boring but it sure seems spot on for classical. Please feel more than welcome to trash it or share your comments?

There is absolutely nothing for high end gear where I am so I am in the same boat. Got to love forums. Its why I started RO in the first place. I invested in a Pro Tools studio in the late 90's and needed to know more about this business so I created recording.org.

Most people that don't like the STC-8 say its boring. Its still way to new for me to make any major judgment call. I don't even consider myself an ME. I'm a hack getting better over time.
I didn't like it until I started using it for less busy music. I guess it was easier to hear it then. Most of the presets seem a bit odd to me Did you use a variety of those? What were your main settings?

I used the 'V-Auto' (auto-release) preset sometimes but mostly just used the fully variable modes. The settings really varied depending on the music, so it's hard to give an example.

In general, I guess I went like this "The faster the attack, the less GR used, maybe about 1dB showing in the meter." The peak limiter didn't sound good to me, so I never used it. Faster attack (all else; some kinda' medium) settings gave a nice sheen with small amounts of GR. The Ki/Hara switch was rarely employed but useful when needed (harsh mixes that needed some HF taming beyond EQ).

I have some other notes around here that I'll post if you're interested.

Graemme

Thanks Graemme,

Yes, please more!

Best compressor? Two compressors! One is colored. The other is transparent. One, this has HP side chain filter for elliptical compression of highs. The other is broadband. Simple. MLA-2 is nice and transparent - especially when you are barely usink.

Cheersø,
Laarsø

Laarsø is right

you can find more info on units I use on my website: http://www.littlemajormastering.info

look under "Gear"

Brgds
Philip
Audio Mastering Engineer

You've got a nice-looking facility and a great roster of fine equipment. One thing I've never understood about Mastering engineers... how can you do you work so well with all of that equipment in front of you and in the way of the sound? I think if I were to design my own Mastering Studio, I would design the room in a similar fashion to yours. The difference would be that I would have approximately 5 comfortable seats as you would find in a movie theater. My equipment would be off to the left and to the right of me. That way, there would be nothing in my way for the sound to reflect off of. Though it might be a little more awkward that way? So maybe just the one seat in the center with four seats behind me and the equipment off the left & right and a closer tighter configuration. Of course I might also want a nice plush and comfy foot rest to put my feet up on so I really could enjoy the sound of it in a more laid-back and relaxing manner? I mean I like looking at my equipment because I paid so much money for it. But when you're inside your Maserati, Lamborghini, Rolls-Royce, you can't see the outside while you're sitting inside. LOL but wouldn't it be cool to have some 3-D glasses on with virtual hand controls to operate your equipment? That would be awesome! Maybe I should start designing that? I'm getting too old and too tired to be doing on location recording anymore. My mind tells me one thing but my joints tell me something else. They tell me I'm getting old. After all, guys can fly F-16s with just the use of a $250,000 helmet today. And those helmets and the controls necessary shouldn't cost more than $2500 by next year?

I'm going to be a brain surgeon (Jethro Bodine, Beverly Hillbillies 1960s)
Mx. Remy Ann David

Hello RemyRAD,

I would be a brain surgeon too, if I wasn't addicted to music.

You need to have the stuff in front of you,
the desk is designed for the critical listening environment of a mastering studio, and is acoustically transparent,
I took care of the reflections, and no chairs or sofa behind me, that will ruin the sound!

Cheers
Philip

Philip, I'm quite sure that you have taken great care and measures to create your ideal sweet spot and listening environment. However, in spite of that, it is still it is still a piece of furniture that is an obstruction. But I too am a visionary. I not only think on my feet but also outside of the box. And with a box in front of someone, you will always have an effect of the transference of sound. Not that it can't be lessened as you have so aptly done. It may certainly be ideal to your way of thinking. But to my way and since I have also designed other control rooms through the years, I certainly believe there could be another way to design an environment for critical listening purposes. As we know, today, there are those devices which can be controlled from an iPhone or an iPAQ. A device in one's hand would have less deleterious effects on the sound. Unfortunately, the best equipment for this application has not yet been implemented for remote control purposes. Not yet. But obviously, this will be coming soon. And even manually adjustable equipment may even be able to be retrofitted with devices that will allow for this remote control. This will bring about new concepts in the design of numerous control rooms. Both for music recording purposes and I think as well for mastering purposes. I prefer listening with no obstructions in front of me. And with clients present, proper seating arrangements without frontal obstructions would be more ideal. 30 years ago or so, I had a vision of an audio console that was touch sensitive and lit from behind. Today, that is a reality with large touch sensitive flat-panel displays. Many science fiction writers have actually predicted future technologies that have since come to be. So this would be the next logical progression in control room design. It won't put you out of business anytime soon thankfully. And I'm not yet ready to get rid of my 1970s, 36 input Neve console that I must still have directly in front of my face. LOL But that time will come when this tube becomes a reality.

Gene Roddenberry where are you?
Mx. Remy Ann David.

Hello RemyRAD, again you're right

I thought about these things too (except the Mac controls ;-))

"Unfortunately, the best equipment for this application has not yet been implemented for remote control purposes. Not yet. But obviously, this will be coming soon."

waiting for that day to come!

in the meantime, it's good to remember that if the ears are deaf in an open prarie, the bizons will show up too late.

Cheers
Philip

Does that have anything to do with the Higgs-Boson? Look out! God... it's a particle. I think we need collider's in our control rooms so we can go bouncing off the walls.

Where's Andy Griffith?
Mx. Remy Ann David