Some more pics with the mics in action during tracking this weekend. The pics are kinda dark and sucky, but yeah...

There's a lot of mics on that there drum kit. I guess more is more after all! How did it turn out?

The mirror.
Kind of like having one in a hotel room on the roof. But you're staying the night by yourself...

Starts with M.

lol

I see you had an adventure in fort-building around the bass drum.

I think there's another inch or two of space you could squeeze another drum mic in... ;-)

How do you like those Kiwis? I've been looking into a set.

Yep, we had access to a lot of cool mics. We put up as many overheads as we did so we’d have options later depending on the song. The album is fairly eclectic in terms of style so we wanted an assortment of spatial options. Some turned out better than others. The Kiwis were alright but generally too bright. We set the Neumanns up in a "recorderman" set-up. However, we had some phasing issues with them and their image is just meh. The Blue Woodpecker, however, is fabulous! I wish we had a pair of those for overheads. I wouldn't need anything else. And the AKG C414's as room mics are really cool.

The tunnel (or fort as someone refered to it) in front of the kick worked out great. Just used some baffeling and blankets to get seperation. The kick ended up sounding great.

Our biggest failure, however, was using the Shure SM7 on the primary snare. While we were testing mics we liked it because it got a big beefy sound. However, it lacks that mid-high crack you get out of a 57. So we're having issues on some of our bigger rock songs trying to get a good tone on it. However, some of the more mellow tracks it got some good tone.

We have some rough, unmixed tracks I can post later if anyone is interested so you can get an idea of the raw tones.

This is when we were trying to decide on the right combo of mics to mic the bass cabs...

We ended up using a D112 on the 10" cone, a D6 on the 15" and also sending a direct line via an Alesis U5.

Nice.

Good info on the Kiwis.

I definitely have no beef with throwing everything AND the kitchen sink at a drum kit just to find out what works.

I'll be interested to hear the tracks - especially (maybe asking too much) if you could post them in stems?? All tracks indexed to 0 with say all over heads on unique stereo tracks, all snare/tom mics on their own tracks, etc?

I know, it's asking a lot, but it might be fun to listen to and then play around with...even if it's only like a 20 second clip or so.

Cucco wrote: Nice.

Good info on the Kiwis.

I definitely have no beef with throwing everything AND the kitchen sink at a drum kit just to find out what works.

I'll be interested to hear the tracks - especially (maybe asking too much) if you could post them in stems?? All tracks indexed to 0 with say all over heads on unique stereo tracks, all snare/tom mics on their own tracks, etc?

I know, it's asking a lot, but it might be fun to listen to and then play around with...even if it's only like a 20 second clip or so.

Not sure if I have enough time to do all that. But I'll see if I can't bounce down a couple different mixes using the different overheads this weekend if I get some time. (We're on a time crunch. We have to finish tracking this album before August 2nd. I won't even tell you when we started.)

More pics recording upright bass...

This is John the bassist for The Gorgeous Hussies ( http://www.myspace.com/thegorgeoushussies )

An Octava MK-012 wrapped in foam and crammed down in the bridge combo'd with a Audio-Technica AE3000. Got a pretty clear, thumpy sound.

What? All of those microphones and you never considered putting a 421 on the snare drum?? You must've gone to Full Sale? Are you stupid? It's just the world's greatest snare drum microphone and you haven't figured this out yet? It's that stupid American thing where people are supposed to want choices. You have too many choices. That's like wearing 5 pairs of underpants simultaneously. Simply because you never know when you might have a truly aggressive fart? Not trying to be demeaning or demoralizing but honestly now. Phasing issues? No? Really? Gate out of here!

I'm gating out of here!
Ms. Remy Ann David

RemyRAD wrote: What? All of those microphones and you never considered putting a 421 on the snare drum?? You must've gone to Full Sale? Are you stupid? It's just the world's greatest snare drum microphone and you haven't figured this out yet? It's that stupid American thing where people are supposed to want choices. You have too many choices. That's like wearing 5 pairs of underpants simultaneously. Simply because you never know when you might have a truly aggressive fart? Not trying to be demeaning or demoralizing but honestly now. Phasing issues? No? Really? Gate out of here!

I'm gating out of here!
Ms. Remy Ann David

Thanks for joining the thread. You're a real peach.

mrbwnstn wrote:

HAH!! this picture cracks me up!

I just uploaded a few of the unmixed tracks from these sessions here: http://www.isound.com/old_man_johnson

Nice sounding stuff man! Good songs and sweet sounding demo.
What board/pres are being used?

8-)

sshack wrote: Nice sounding stuff man! Good songs and sweet sounding demo.
What board/pres are being used?

8-)

Thanks! :)

On the kit we used Focusrite ISA 428's, a DBX 386 Dual-Vacuum, and a few tracks ran through the 003's pres.

On all other instruments we've been primarly using the DBX 386 as well as the pres on a Allen & Heath board, depending on the song.

Tracking guitar...

Thanks for the pics...Bad Cats are sweet amps!

sshack wrote: Thanks for the pics...Bad Cats are sweet amps!

I concure. That's a Cub II. Gets a really chimey clean sound. Didn't like it as much for distorted stuff.

We ended up swaping out the black face Twin with an older silver face twin seen here...

Oh yeah, you were asking about pres... we also had our hands on a Neve Portico 5012 for a few weeks. Got a pretty cherry sound.

What have you used the Portico on? I've heard great things about that line.
Also, is that a Rockerverb 50? I've come close (many times) to picking one up.
I'm on the edge of purging some of my amps though.

:?

sshack wrote: What have you used the Portico on? I've heard great things about that line.
Also, is that a Rockerverb 50? I've come close (many times) to picking one up.
I'm on the edge of purging some of my amps though.

:?

If I remember right we used the Portico on a vocal track (I think Pop Chanteuse), some guitar tracks, and possibly the mandolin on The Best Part. I can't remember exactly which though, we've had so much gear in and out of the studio.

It's actually an Orange AD30r. I've had the amp for about 2 1/2 years now. It's classic Orange British mid-ranged crunch. The AD30's are supposed to be built similar to the Vox AC30's. Honestly a great sounding amp. However, I always record this amp in tandem with a Twin to get the higher and lower ranged freq's the Orange doesn't produce as well.

What amps do you have that you want to "purge"? Also, as soon as we're done re-amping all my guitar parts I'm going to be selling my AD30.

I looked at the Orange AD30 some time ago when I was going for the "Vox" route and ended up going with a Goodsell instead. It happily satisfied the need for the chimey amp need in my life.
I like the creaminess of the Rockerverb 50 best of all of the Orange amps. (they're right down the street from me too, so maybe another reason to consider them again).

The amp that I may sell is a Germino Club 40 Head with matching 2x12 cab (G12Ms). Greg makes a smokin' amp, I just don't play it enough, plus I could use the room.

You've got some nice toys there bro...I bet it's a blast to work with it all.

sshack wrote: I looked at the Orange AD30 some time ago when I was going for the "Vox" route and ended up going with a Goodsell instead. It happily satisfied the need for the chimey amp need in my life.
I like the creaminess of the Rockerverb 50 best of all of the Orange amps. (they're right down the street from me too, so maybe another reason to consider them again).

The amp that I may sell is a Germino Club 40 Head with matching 2x12 cab (G12Ms). Greg makes a smokin' amp, I just don't play it enough, plus I could use the room.

You've got some nice toys there bro...I bet it's a blast to work with it all.

Those are some nice amps you got. I've heard some good things about Goodsell's. "Chime" is the one thing my AD30 doesn't have much of. I'm thinking about biting the bullet and selling all my amps and going with a Matchless King Cobra or Pheonix 35 or something... but I haven't decided. I really wouldn't want to tour with something so nice but it'd be nice to have in the studio.

Yeah, all three of us have our own home studios so we just combine a lot of our gear, and we have a lot of other musician friends who we coop our gear together. It's fun. But damn, this project has taken us along time. I'll be happy when it's complete.

We have an August 2nd deadline and we're sending off all our files to Matt Winegar to mix.

mrbwnstn wrote:

And the engineer asks the assistant, "Can you move the bass guitar mic out an inch, and slightly more off-center?"

And the assistant shoots himself. :shock:

Seriously, you guys had to be laughing when you set all those up! :wink:

Kapt.Krunch

So have the Gorgeous Hussies ever played a double bill with the[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.biddies4…"] Lascivious Biddies?[/]="http://www.biddies4…"] Lascivious Biddies?[/] (The Biddies are a great band, by the way, and would actually go pretty well on a bill with the Hussies.)

Kapt.Krunch wrote: [quote=mrbwnstn]

And the engineer asks the assistant, "Can you move the bass guitar mic out an inch, and slightly more off-center?"

And the assistant shoots himself. :shock:

Seriously, you guys had to be laughing when you set all those up! :wink:

Kapt.Krunch

Yeah, the mics got pretty harry. But we experiment a lot in the studio and see what we like best depending on the particular song. We like to record according to our ears instead of "rules". The experimenting ends up taking a LOT longer, but we usually end up with solid raw tracks instead of having to mix our way out of a problem. It's served us well so far.

I find it funny how in the madness of that pic, the wires are coiled neatly.

Just like the marketing web you spin. It is flawed.

Google search "The Gorgeous Hussies". This thread comes in 9th. So a fan is going to think they are so special stumbling onto your cache of goodies stored under "Old Man Johnson". Oh so special.

Whilst you pimp your mic cabinet, philosophy and inability to represent product in an upfront manner. I laugh.

Greener wrote: I find it funny how in the madness of that pic, the wires are coiled neatly.

Just like the marketing web you spin. It is flawed.

Google search "The Gorgeous Hussies". This thread comes in 9th. So a fan is going to think they are so special stumbling onto your cache of goodies stored under "Old Man Johnson". Oh so special.

Whilst you pimp your mic cabinet, philosophy and inability to represent product in an upfront manner. I laugh.

Damn, I don't know what's up with this website. I love checking out other's recording set-ups and tracking techniques so I thought I'd share some of my own. I didn't know 80% of the responses would be in the form of snarky/bitchy comments.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at Greener. I can't decipher your passive aggressiveness.

Hey Greener,
These next pics are especially for you...

Tracking piano a few months back...

Yeah, I do sound a bit hostile there. Not really meaning to be, just a bitter sarcastic troll.

Why are you measuring the distance between those weird looking mics? Is it to get a ratio between their distance and the height over a known spread of strings?

Btw, tables and chairs are cheap. Your back isn't.

Greener wrote: Why are you measuring the distance between those weird looking mics? Is it to get a ratio between their distance and the height over a known spread of strings?

It's to curb phasing issues. Trying to get an equal distance between the mics and the sound source. You see drummers do the same thing with overhead mics and their snare. They’ll measure the same amount of “stick lengths” between the two overheads and each overhead to the snare drum.

I’m not a pro on the science of phasing so someone else might be more qualified to answer why and how it works. I just know these are some techniques to avoid it.

I get why drummers do it for a snare. But in this case you have 88 snares.

Greener wrote: I get why drummers do it for a snare. But in this case you have 88 snares.

:lol: That took me a second to get.

You need both mics to get a balanced tone across all the strings. Or you can use one mic but you have to back it way up to get the entire sound of the piano but then you lose the attack and clarity of each string and doesn’t sound as good, IMO.

So using two mics with the same sound source, there is a center point between each mic at which they're going to start picking up the same frequencies at the same rate. You want to try eliminating as many dual frequencies reaching both mics at the same time as you can otherwise the freqs “phase” each other out and you get a funky washed out tone. The best way I know how to get rid of it is to get an equal distance between the mics and the sound source. Or position the mics in a way that they're not going to pick-up the same freqs.

I don’t know if I’ve described the physics of it all accurately or not but this is how I understand it. I don’t know exactly why it does what it does, I just know it does it and I have to do X to eliminate it.

Tracking some hand percussion...

...and a few keyboards...

mrbwnstn wrote: [quote=Greener]I get why drummers do it for a snare. But in this case you have 88 snares.

:lol: That took me a second to get.

You need both mics to get a balanced tone across all the strings. Or you can use one mic but you have to back it way up to get the entire sound of the piano but then you lose the attack and clarity of each string and doesn’t sound as good, IMO.

So using two mics with the same sound source, there is a center point between each mic at which they're going to start picking up the same frequencies at the same rate. You want to try eliminating as many dual frequencies reaching both mics at the same time as you can otherwise the freqs “phase” each other out and you get a funky washed out tone. The best way I know how to get rid of it is to get an equal distance between the mics and the sound source. Or position the mics in a way that they're not going to pick-up the same freqs.

I don’t know if I’ve described the physics of it all accurately or not but this is how I understand it. I don’t know exactly why it does what it does, I just know it does it and I have to do X to eliminate it.

I dont think anyones been that 'bitchy'......Maybe Remy, but you have to understand that from her perspective, experimentation is 'good' but there are certain things that dont need experimentation....one of which is 'what mic to use on a snare'. If you have MD421's and you dont use them there its kinda ???HUH??? and personally, choosing an SM7 for snare isnt all that it might have seemed to be when you did it.....

As for 'needing' both mics to get a balanced tone across the piano, I dont agree totally. This is ,again, a mic choice. Perhaps with those two mics you'll need it. And the room will have a lot to do with the attack of the piano. Keeping the lid on has another entirely different effect yet its profound in its value and the response of the mics. Hopefully this measuring will have the pattern of the mics in mind.

You have the velocity part of your equation in the right place, however the 'phasing' out of certain overlapping frequencies due to mic proximity is something you might want to experiment with a little more. This is something that can happen, but I'm not too sure its because of what you think its because of.............Either way, if this technique works for you then its a good one.

I'm more of a SDC person when it comes to close micing baby grands. Theres much more spill control and the pattern is usually tighter by a lot. I like a room mic also and if its rock music, the lid comes off and you deal with the room accordingly. On the smaller babys this helps in creating size for the instrument. The lid being gone also gives the sound time to develop. Attack is achieved through close micing but big piano is achieved through letting the sound out into the room. If you have the ability, try a PZM sitting on a large piece of plexiglass under the piano. Its interesting what goes on under the harp.

Also, I'm thinking that your TLM103's through the Portico may give you a better overall piano sound. Even though they get panned a lot on the net, they make great piano mics through the right pre. The Portico is the right pre.

Hows that for bitchy???

Davedog wrote: [quote=mrbwnstn][quote=Greener]I get why drummers do it for a snare. But in this case you have 88 snares.

:lol: That took me a second to get.

You need both mics to get a balanced tone across all the strings. Or you can use one mic but you have to back it way up to get the entire sound of the piano but then you lose the attack and clarity of each string and doesn’t sound as good, IMO.

So using two mics with the same sound source, there is a center point between each mic at which they're going to start picking up the same frequencies at the same rate. You want to try eliminating as many dual frequencies reaching both mics at the same time as you can otherwise the freqs “phase” each other out and you get a funky washed out tone. The best way I know how to get rid of it is to get an equal distance between the mics and the sound source. Or position the mics in a way that they're not going to pick-up the same freqs.

I don’t know if I’ve described the physics of it all accurately or not but this is how I understand it. I don’t know exactly why it does what it does, I just know it does it and I have to do X to eliminate it.

I dont think anyones been that 'bitchy'......Maybe Remy, but you have to understand that from her perspective, experimentation is 'good' but there are certain things that dont need experimentation....one of which is 'what mic to use on a snare'. If you have MD421's and you dont use them there its kinda ???HUH??? and personally, choosing an SM7 for snare isnt all that it might have seemed to be when you did it.....

As for 'needing' both mics to get a balanced tone across the piano, I dont agree totally. This is ,again, a mic choice. Perhaps with those two mics you'll need it. And the room will have a lot to do with the attack of the piano. Keeping the lid on has another entirely different effect yet its profound in its value and the response of the mics. Hopefully this measuring will have the pattern of the mics in mind.

You have the velocity part of your equation in the right place, however the 'phasing' out of certain overlapping frequencies due to mic proximity is something you might want to experiment with a little more. This is something that can happen, but I'm not too sure its because of what you think its because of.............Either way, if this technique works for you then its a good one.

I'm more of a SDC person when it comes to close micing baby grands. Theres much more spill control and the pattern is usually tighter by a lot. I like a room mic also and if its rock music, the lid comes off and you deal with the room accordingly. On the smaller babys this helps in creating size for the instrument. The lid being gone also gives the sound time to develop. Attack is achieved through close micing but big piano is achieved through letting the sound out into the room. If you have the ability, try a PZM sitting on a large piece of plexiglass under the piano. Its interesting what goes on under the harp.

Also, I'm thinking that your TLM103's through the Portico may give you a better overall piano sound. Even though they get panned a lot on the net, they make great piano mics through the right pre. The Portico is the right pre.

Hows that for bitchy???

Thanks for the perspective on recording piano. I'll keep it in mind next time we do it.

As far as people making excuses for acting bitchy... that’s great that someone has some kind of perspective or excuse for acting bitchy but that doesn’t negate the fact they’re acting like a bitch. If someone wants to act like one, fine, but I hope they’re not offended when someone points it out.

I think you should spend more time getting to really know someone before you point things out that may or may not be true.

Assumptions without knowledge, especially on the net where there is no idea of the actual emotional content of a statement, is an empty road to nowhere.

YMMV.

Davedog wrote: I think you should spend more time getting to really know someone before you point things out that may or may not be true.

Assumptions without knowledge, especially on the net where there is no idea of the actual emotional content of a statement, is an empty road to nowhere.

YMMV.

I'm not making a statement about the person in general rather the "bitchy comments". I mean, in the case of Remy, she called me stupid in her first correspondence with me, haha! However, I noticed you didn't respond to her in the same way you're responding to me?

You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you act like a jerk expect to be called on it.

Whatever, it's not important.

Hi mrbwnstn

Thanks for taking time to document your project and share it with us! Keep up the posts.

VonRocK wrote: Hi mrbwnstn

Thanks for taking time to document your project and share it with us! Keep up the posts.

Thanks man! I will, I just need to find all the pictures. :)