i'd just grab a pg58 and put it inside the piano and close the lid. make sure to put the switch to "on".

run it through an Mbox2 pre and presto!

mrbwnstn wrote: [quote=Davedog]I think you should spend more time getting to really know someone before you point things out that may or may not be true.

Assumptions without knowledge, especially on the net where there is no idea of the actual emotional content of a statement, is an empty road to nowhere.

YMMV.

I'm not making a statement about the person in general rather the "bitchy comments". I mean, in the case of Remy, she called me stupid in her first correspondence with me, haha! However, I noticed you didn't respond to her in the same way you're responding to me?

You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you act like a jerk expect to be called on it.

Whatever, it's not important.

The response you're getting as opposed to responding to my fellow moderator is based on KNOWING what she MEANT by such a comment.

Its not what you thought and my suggestion to you is to learn about people and how they go about their business before leveling a judgement.

My response towards you is being measured on how you are responding to people you do not know. I am the moderator of this panel and thats what I'm doing. Moderating.

I too appreciate the sharing of your project. Best of luck at the mix.

Your bassist is very very good.

Thanks for the compliment on our bassist. I agree, he's a very talented player. We're lucky to have him.

Some more photos tracking mando...

This guy's name is Ken Sager. I met him randomly via MySpace and he was cool enough to come and track some mandolin parts. Check him out at http://www.myspace.com/kensagermusic if you like cool Nu-Jazz/Bluegrass mandolin fusion.

In this pic he's recording through a Blue Baby Bottle on our song The Best Part which you can [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.isound.c…"]hear here[/]="http://www.isound.c…"]hear here[/] if you care. We also tracked him using the Blue Kiwis and I personally like the Kiwis better. They're a dryer than the Bottle and really capture the nuance of his playing better, IMO.

"i'd just grab a pg58 and put it inside the piano and close the lid. make sure to put the switch to "on"."

rockstardave, that is the best advice I've seen on these forums in a while :lol:
I knew PG58s had a purpose...

But, you forgot to mention the cable ;)

Beautiful pictures.

I too cannot quite figure out what is with all of this tape measuring stupid stuff? What? You don't know how to eyeball something? I've never needed to measure any capsule to capsule. It's idiotic. It's only guidelines. You use your ears. Not something from a textbook. OMG!

So how long is the stroke on the piston in your engine? Do you really care? Does it run alright without you knowing? Or, do you think you should measure the stroke because the engine isn't running at its peak like you think it should? Fugetaboutit!

Laughing myself into a stroke
Ms. Remy Ann David

RemyRAD wrote: Beautiful pictures.

I too cannot quite figure out what is with all of this tape measuring stupid stuff? What? You don't know how to eyeball something? I've never needed to measure any capsule to capsule. It's idiotic. It's only guidelines. You use your ears. Not something from a textbook. OMG!

So how long is the stroke on the piston in your engine? Do you really care? Does it run alright without you knowing? Or, do you think you should measure the stroke because the engine isn't running at its peak like you think it should? Fugetaboutit!

Laughing myself into a stroke
Ms. Remy Ann David

Dave, your girl is utterly obnoxious. I know I'm not allow to tell the truth around here, but dang...

Nobody said anything about the truth.

Perceptions are what fueled the subject.

It really is KINDA funny.........

And even though its given in an obnoxious way, the fact is, its true about the measuring .. its all about the ears.

Dont let it harsh your day.

Davedog wrote: Nobody said anything about the truth.

Perceptions are what fueled the subject.

It really is KINDA funny.........

And even though its given in an obnoxious way, the fact is, its true about the measuring .. its all about the ears.

Dont let it harsh your day.

hehe - Dave, you're transparent. It's funny. But don't worry, you're only perceived as transparent. What you actually are, God only knows.

Wow - This is really strange - I don't know that I have ever seen this on this forum (or any other for that matter), but a member is being bashed by a moderator because he does something technically different in his studio that he purchased with his money? That's pretty sad. Almost like communist Russia.

"Ye shall think like the Solar Federation or be called stupid and idiotic".

Voicing an opinion is one thing, but publicly degrading someone for the way they choose to produce their music is appalling. I listened to the demos and I think it sounds fantastic through my system - Good work - Keep doing what you're doing and fuggem - They can get a life. Or better yet they can post some links to their wonderful works of musical art that were created with the Solar Federation mindset. I think I sense a small tinge of jealously, no?

Don't be upset, just voicing an opinion. It shouldn't ruin your day.

Hop-Scotching down the highway.

Ye shall think like the Solar Federation or be called stupid and idiotic".

Thats a bit more Pythonesque than Commie Ruskie dont you think???

"You will be tortured with.......................THE COMFY CHAIR.........."

As for my letting any light through my person, at 250 and a stone it aint gonna happen...... 8)

Anyway.......Ya'll need to lighten up. This isnt all that serious. Have fun, drink good beer, relax...The only way you can be offended is to allow it..........

Glide wrote: Wow - This is really strange - I don't know that I have ever seen this on this forum (or any other for that matter), but a member is being bashed by a moderator because he does something technically different in his studio that he purchased with his money? That's pretty sad. Almost like communist Russia.

"Ye shall think like the Solar Federation or be called stupid and idiotic".

Voicing an opinion is one thing, but publicly degrading someone for the way they choose to produce their music is appalling. I listened to the demos and I think it sounds fantastic through my system - Good work - Keep doing what you're doing and fuggem - They can get a life. Or better yet they can post some links to their wonderful works of musical art that were created with the Solar Federation mindset. I think I sense a small tinge of jealously, no?

Don't be upset, just voicing an opinion. It shouldn't ruin your day.

Hop-Scotching down the highway.

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees it. I thought I might be going crazy.

New on Fox this fall: When Moderator Attack! :lol:

This is actually kinda' hysterical stuff...

None of you young kids can even fathom how ruthless this industry really is, can you?

Granted, I really cannot say why Remy's taken a bit more of a hardass line over the past few months, but so what.. deal with it.

This forum has generally always been, and still is rather polite... you should have experienced rec.audio.pro or the Rec Pit. You woulda' ended up going home and crying to your momma that someone took away your lollypop on the playground.

Grow some nads, put hair on em' and deal with it. If someone like Remy, an industry veteran who deserves the respect of a fulltime working professional, says something is stoopid, maybe you should toughen the hide on your buttcheeks and attempt to learn from what she's telling you, or defend your side of the statement which drew the criticism.

As far as being attacked by a moderator... you haven't been attacked... you have only been mildly barked at... jebus. Go over to the womb and post this thread in slippy's forum... THEN you'll find out about being attacked by a moderator, or 12.

If you can't accept that there are full time professionals that will have serious differences of opinions of your work, then maybe this isn't the right industry for you. It's tough, mean, brutal and ruthless. There isn't room at the top for wimps or oversensitive types. The dollars for those that want to do this full time are dwindling right now. The quality of the craft of recording is being diluted and polluted with cheap gear, the lure of easy money and the lie that this is easy stuff to do. So, every paycheck is hard fought for.

Good work is generally appreciated by the pros. Its expected from everyone that puts product out there. High standards are what anyone with a commitment to their craft should be seeking.

If someone calls BS, then either accept it and learn from it, or defend yourself. If you can't see to do either... get the hell out of the kitchen.

Did you even think about it this way... that maybe, just maybe, the criticism is intended to make you think and maybe get you to try to move your standards up to the next level?

I can honestly say that is probably the most idiotic post I have read on a public forum....droning on and on and on and on and on.....

Mrbwnstn - Your production sounds great - really, it does - Keep doing exactly what you are doing. And let the ones that can't seem to post links to their stuff sit and stew in it.

Really, I would like to compare the sound of the two on my system. I have Mrbwnstn's link and I have heard it - Let the "pros" post theirs, I would like to compare and see this "huge" difference in sound.

That's request number two - easy enough request - post a link to your stuff and let's compare.

By the way, I am sure that Remy and the Dog have links to literally hundreds of songs they have done, probably many top 10 hits, but no need to post them all. Just post one or two so I can play them on my system and compare them to the one that the greenhorn Mrbwnstn posted. I am ready to be amazed.

So to your wonderful term above, Mr. MadMax - I am indeed calling B.S. - Put up or Shut up. That's easy enough.

Hello?...echo...echo...echo

Testing 1, 2, 3...this thing on?

Got a little warm in this kitchen didn't it, Max?

Still waiting on those links to the grammy award winning musical productions Remy:

I love checking out other's recording set-ups and tracking techniques so I thought I'd share some of my own. I didn't know 80% of the responses would be in the form of snarky/bitchy comments. /quote

Hi Mr. mrbwnstn, I stopped in for a moment to see why this thread is swelling in post size. I think it's the pictures...yea, a picture is worth a thousand words. I like to be able to see what people are talking about, so this would help me.

But I'm no good at recording...gotta know yer limits eh? But I'm good at math. Did you know that up until the point that you stated "80%...snarky/bitchy" it was actually 0%? It is true.

You have been on this website, and others I am certain, but this one specifically for 3 years plus. That is a long time. It is certainly long enough to understand that some things are going to be commented on in specific ways and should be viewed completely, not broken down to individual words.

Take Greener out of the thread and there really hasn't been a disruption.

Anyway, enjoyed the shots but in the end what is accomplished? You had to know what you were getting into :)

Glide: maybe start a thread with your personal aside?

I have reread this thread a dozen times and I still havent found the part where ANYONE has said the material presented sounded like shit.

Could someone direct me to this?

I also havent found the point in which ANYONE said that the techniques presented werent doing the tasks required of them.

I would really like this information upfront.

I also havent been able to find any 'attacks' other than Remy saying the methodology wasnt something she would particularly revel in and THIS is just an opinion like many others opinions on this forum.

My point, once again, is to simply NOT take someones strong, perhaps a bit over the top, but still basically true and honest take on a subject and twist it into something its not nor was intended to be.

I dont see why there has to be some contest between parties when there has been no gauntlet thrown nor any real criticism of the RESULTS of this effort.

My own critique was centered around the mic of choice for the snare, which mrbwnstn himself said wasnt a great choice for ALL the material involved in the project. I felt I agreed with him on this. Remy was a bit more over-the-top with her comments regarding this, but I still dont see it as a condemnation of anything about the sound quality of the project. Certainly not an ATTACK! I feel like the sound values of the raw recorded tracks will give this project ample amounts of leeway to achieve a quality mix at that time.

I have certainly heard and produced worse in my time.

I cannot say what mrbwnstn and mr.glide are reading into this series of posts, but in stepping back and reading it from an entirely neutral standpoint I'm not seeing the reasoning behind these responses.

Call me thick or stupid but its a long way from what you seem to be portraying. I'm trying to be politically correct here and hopefully this thread , which I am enjoying on a personal level, continues to be civilized and doesnt require any heavyhanded 'moderating' just simply keep it from devolving into a shitfest.

If it does, well, I hope it doesnt.

Moderating 101. Incase you think I'm being a flake or something...... :wink:

P.S. I thought about this for a little while, and I will add this thought. IF you have an ego about capturing tracks then you will have a problem somewhere down the line working with a serious producer. I dont know any specifics of your project, mrbwnstn, but from what I gather you are all combining gear and working in virtual harmony to get your tracks and then shipping them out for a mix. This GREAT! I do the same . But at the same time, I also know from experience what its like to do basics as an engineer rather than an ARTIST recording themselves. While it is true that you have the time and the means to 'experiment' and get what you want , and this gives you a great sense of pride in doing a great job, it is FAR from the norm or the reality of working as a group in this business. Its good to be proud of the job you've done. BRAVO! Seriously. Its not good to have an EGO about it. Your reactions tell this tale. A professional engineer working this project would have let ANY comment about the details of the work slip right on by. You seem to want a pat on the back for all this fabulous work when all thats needed is your own confidence in your own reality. No one has attacked you in any way and even though I sense that you are going to continue this slant of opinion because you have deep seated feelings for your project, you need to chill and understand that no one is criticizeing you for the results......only commenting on the techniques you employed. Like I said very early on, (which you seem to have missed) "if this works for you then its a good thing".

I'm still looking for the 'bitchy' parts........and the 80%.........

I never disagreed with your girl, Dave. She's free to express whatever opinion she wants, however she wants. And I agree with her suggestion for a snare mic... just not the tactless way she presented it.

But when I commented back, in relatively the same disrespectful manner as her (she called me stupid, I called her comment bitchy... tit-for-tat), you got all huffy with me about my approach. My main protest throughout this thread is simply the way you silently allow a person to act one way and speak up when someone else acts similarly.

Your girl can act however she wants, but I'll comment back however I want. Tell her not to harsh. She can only be offended if she allows herself to be. Tell her to grow some nads and deal with it or get the hell out of the kitchen. :wink:

Reread my previous post. As for reining in Remy.....Shes a mod here too, and while I agree with you on the tenor of the posts, I also feel she has spent the time in the kitchen doing this stuff at a level that few of us here have done, and shes capable of dealing with stuff herself. She also deserves respect for the longevity of her time in the kitchen.

As for me replying to you in any way that resembles 'huffy'.....errr.....you dont know me very well do ya........

Any of you longtime folks wanna comment on the 'huffy'????

At least those who have seen 'huffy' from me in its true form.

I asked you civilly to take a moment and learn about those you feel have offended you before you go off and flip out.

But I see you are the sensitive type and can read anything you want into a perfectly civil worded message.

If I was being 'huffy' in any sense of the word, believe me you would know it without a doubt.

So lets play nice....I like what you've done....I'm trying very hard to like you and give you a platform to share your project with the group. I would hate to see it go downhill over something misinterpreted.

Just posted an updated version of The Best Part at: http://www.isound.com/old_man_johnson

I'm going to try and post a new song called Jamhiem Steamroller later tonight.

Also, if anyone wants to make friends with us on MySpace our address is: http://www.myspace.com/thegorgeoushussies

I found a pic I took awhile back... we saw Dream Theater do something similar when they recorded one of their recent albums. This board has been a life saver for us while we've tracked this beast. When my drummer first suggested it I thought it was going to be over kill... but after using it I'll never track another record without one.

And just to clear up my position on this,

1. I wouldn't know mrbwnstn if he walked up and said hello. So this isn't two guys that know each other piling into this thread.

2. I have been very appreciative of Remy's posts in the past and I have even voiced this to her on other threads.

3. I was appalled to see that a moderator publicly degraded a member by using terms such as "stupid" and "idiotic" when referring to their methodology. That is far, far, far away than just voicing an opinion, or trying to offer constructive help.

4. Max's poor attempt at justifying treating someone in that way is ridiculous. Sure, it's a dog-eat-dog industry but that doesn't give you rights to contribute to the malice. Are you just falling in line with the herd? No original thought? Treat people with respect man. Be on the positive side. There are great (well respected) people in the industry that don't have to resort to name calling.

5. I still want to see those links to make a comparison. Respect is earned - and if you have the testicular fortitude to call another "idiotic" or "stupid" then you just stepped yourself up to the plate for analysis. Post the links.

This was originally a thread about tracking The Gorgeous Hussies. However, I think it'd be cool to see all of your pics from your studio. Please post pics from your studio or from a tracking session you've participated in and share with everyone else. I'd love to see them!

~ mrbwnstn

Glide wrote: ... I was appalled to see that a moderator publicly degraded a member by using terms such as "stupid" and "idiotic" when referring to their methodology. That is far, far, far away than just voicing an opinion, or trying to offer constructive help...

Glide - I don't want to defend Remy's language. I have a full time job. But I think you are making too much of this. Here is the "offending" quote

Beautiful pictures....I too cannot quite figure out what is with all of this tape measuring stupid stuff? What? You don't know how to eyeball something? I've never needed to measure any capsule to capsule. It's idiotic. It's only guidelines. You use your ears. Not something from a textbook. OMG!

She is attacking a technique - a method - she never degrades the person. I do things that are "stupid" and "idiotic" all the time. Ask my students. Ask my daughter and son. Please don't ask my wife. That observation is only "degrading" to me personally if I grade myself perfect.

To get back to the actual issue that caused all the fuss, while I would not use her words, but the technique doesn't make sense to me either. Greener's "88 snares" comment is the best substantive point. I might add that you also have a five foot, asymmetrical kick drum. Unless you know something about the vibrational modes of the soundboard that I don't this is an exercise in "phony precision." (I had an engineer in a math modeling class who had done an internship at a power company. The engineers back at the office ashed the field guys for the distance between the high voltage power lines. Came back with 30 feet 6.25 inches. They start doing calculations and someone thinks to ask: how did you get a measurement that accurate - those lines are 100 feet in the air. Answer: well Joe stands under the left line and Jack stands under the right line we pull the measuring tape taunt and give you the number. (I am making the numbers up for entertainment purposes only.)

Of course this is just picking nits. Like every other commenter, I liked the recordings. I assumed that posting was a genuine attempt to get criticism, not an exercise in fishing for complements.

BobRogers wrote: She is attacking a technique - a method - she never degrades the person.

Bob - I appreciate your comments, but I respectfully disagree. A technique or method doesn't have intelligence, or a brain, so the terms stupid or idiotic would not apply to a "method." But the person performing the technique or method does have intelligence and those terms apply specifically to them.

If this person wants to go outside and run around the house three times and then come back in and hang the amps upside down from the ceiling to get the sound they want then so be it - If it works for them I say more power to them. It would be a shame if we all made music like Ms. Remy - How boring a world it would be.

I’m really surprised there is so much fuss over 12” of measuring tape. Let me just say this, this isn’t a technique we made up. The first engineer I saw measure his distances, and who does it religiously (and has an amazing ear), is one of the engineers who helped develop the Kimber Kable IsoMike. Google it if you don’t know what it is. And I know a handful of other engineers that do it as well. Just think about it for 5 seconds and the physics beyond the concept. It makes sense. But whatever you do don’t try or accept something new or different. :wink:

[youtube:61e810a282]http://www.isound.c…]

Cool, I was able to get the player to load!

I just uploaded a new track called Jamheim Steamroller with the most recent mix we have on it from this tracking session.

I have no idea why mr.glide would assume that anyone thought they were in cahoots due to a previously established relationship??????

A 'better' way of hearing the results of someones work would be to simply ask to hear it rather than throwing it out as some sort of challenge simply because someone doesnt agree with a methodology.

A methodology or a group of them together doesnt make a recording good or bad. They simply serve the person or engineer making the session. A methodology cannot hear, cannot twist a knob, cannot choose a mic for a particular purpose.etc etc......

Challenging someone ( when its not even your own work in question!!!!) to some sort of childish shoot-out is a waste of time and energy.

If its to be a comparison of work, the recorded material would have to be similar in nature, the equipment used would have to have some common ground, and the time-frame would have to be similar. How would a piece of music recorded, oh say, 20 years prior to this in a million-dollar studio have any bearing on comparing to this particular projects' being?

I'm sorry if this all seems to be some kind of vindictive BS, but it does.......

I DO agree that a physical measurement is a GREAT starting place for placement issues with multiple mics on singular complex sources. Sometimes you get it right from the beginning. Sometimes you have to listen for a while to get it right. Sometimes, you have to revisit it after a few days/weeks/months to REALLY get it right.

Mr.Glide. I suggest that if you have a bone to pick with Remy then take it up with her personally and leave this thread to its own conclusion. Right now it seems you are becoming an agent provocatuer much to the demise of a fairly interesting thread with great pictures.

IMO the studio pictures should be in a new thread, cut it away from all of this ... conflict (for want of a more diplomatic word). I'm not saying to repost the existing pics, but I don't see any benefit in people adding their own pics to this.

The ideal situation would be to have a separate board for all of these - each person can have one thread full of their own pics and that lets the comments flow without being packed into one thread. I can't imagine it being very busy though.

Codemonkey wrote:

The ideal situation would be to have a separate board for all of these - each person can have one thread full of their own pics and that lets the comments flow without being packed into one thread. I can't imagine it being very busy though.

Good idea, except I don't know about the "not being very busy part". I would be in there quite a bit. I have built 3 recording studios, and due to my extremely remote location, the only resources I had was reading a lot and studying pictures from recording magazines. I think including sound clips with the pics is a great idea as well.
The problem lies in whether the people posting pics are looking for critique, or trying to educate, or just trying to show off. It could result in more threads like this, if people aren't sure of the purpose.

I've tried to stay out of this one, but I can't avoid it any longer.
There are WAY too many people jumping into this thread and posting replies that are off the mark.

I suggest that this thread get locked, everyone step away from their keyboards, take a deep breath, and move on.

I'd like to see something fruitful come out of this one - I think the OP has merit and it seems to me that he has been unduly attacked.

Other comments on here have merit as well, but when I read the thread in it's entirety I don't think they are all that advantageous to the forward momentum of our site.

This thread comes right on the heels of another similar thread "What Gives Around Here?" or something to that effect.

Dave, how's about we put this one to bed?

OP, I enjoyed reading about your methods and viewing your pics. Thanks.

Anyone else with an opinion on this, feel free to PM me;
But as far as I'm concerned, you can stick a fork in this thread, it's done.

I say let it run open for a few more days. Seems authoritarian to lock it. Which in effect, is what all the uproar is if it were distilled to the rawest of elements?

Hoping you can understand that,

Brien

mrbwnstn wrote: I’m really surprised there is so much fuss over 12” of measuring tape. Let me just say this, this isn’t a technique we made up. The first engineer I saw measure his distances, and who does it religiously (and has an amazing ear), is one of the engineers who helped develop the Kimber Kable IsoMike. Google it if you don’t know what it is. And I know a handful of other engineers that do it as well. Just think about it for 5 seconds and the physics beyond the concept. It makes sense. But whatever you do don’t try or accept something new or different. :wink:

Yeah, thirty years of teaching applied mathematics and partial differential equations and writing papers and books on the subject really gets in the way of learning new things about physics.

Sorry to keep this up Ben, but grading paper on multivariable calculus all day doesn't leave much time to learn about how getting an "equal distance between the mics and sound source" can "curb phasing issues". If I'm going to accept "new or different" ideas like "So using two mics with the same sound source, there is a center point between each mic at which they're going to start picking up the same frequencies at the same rate. You want to try eliminating as many dual frequencies reaching both mics at the same time as you can otherwise the freqs “phase” each other out and you get a funky washed out tone. The best way I know how to get rid of it is to get an equal distance between the mics and the sound source. Or position the mics in a way that they're not going to pick-up the same freqs. " I guess i'm just going to have to go out and get another Ph.D. The old one just isn't what it used to be. These damn whippersnappers with their fancy new laws of physics. Gonna be a long summer.

Brien, sure, I understand that; But all of you need to understand this:

I've worked my ass off in this industry to be able to put food on the table and clothes on my kids' backs. I've taken my share of knocks from some of the best folks in the field, IMHO. I've been covered in dust, cobwebs, mud, water, even leaked sewage. I've stayed up for 40+ hours straight, many, many times, to make sure the show will go on. I still spend most of my waking hours working on shows, talking about shows, loading trucks, loading in and out gigs...

I'm all for messing around with people and busting balls, but I know when someone's getting their ass handed to them for no good reason, and I recognize the pack mentality when it rears it's ugly head.

This thread has lost ANY VALUE it could have given this site.
End of story.

If you'd like to discuss it further, feel free to PM me. Aside from that, I'm done with this.

-Ben

I like the suggestion of having a separate "Photos of sessions" and "Appropriate commentary". I also agree that there can be such different levels of participation as was outlined in MarkG's post. Thatnks Mr.Monkey for the idea.

Perhaps we'll have a separate sign-up for that thread only..........We have in the past encouraged folks to put up pics of their working environments and it has a short life of momentum.....dont know why exactly.......

Some do come on here to show off the gear......Its pretty obvious.....Some like to simply bask in the 'porn-that-is-gear'.....Some come to learn. Participation in this sort of thread and forum would be limited, I think, as far as posters go, but high on readership.

This is why I think a separate sign-up sheet to visit might be in order...

Opinions?

This thread has teetered on shitfest for a while and I personally dont like the gang factor. I have tried to moderate reasonably, but its still a voluntary position and it takes a lot of time to keep up with stuff and to try and figure out where its all going. People get a lot of energy from getting PO'd about stuff that doesnt matter at the end of the day, and while its great to see passion, its a wonderment at the level it reaches with barely any provocation or even a word out of place.

Hell is taking orders on handbaskets this week in case you want to know..............

I'm with Ben. A few more days and we'll lock it up and try again in a civil tone. I will keep the pictures, the links to the music tracks and will move these to a new locale should that be the impetus of the group. This in no way will reflect on anyones character or their responses to this thread. Its simply a house management decision.

Excellent production work Mrbwnstn!

Glide wrote: I'd still like to see those links for comparison posted first before you lock it down - :wink:

But we all know that isn't going to happen.

Excellent production work Mrbwnstn!

Gracias!

I'd still like to see other's studios. If you don't want to post in this thread make a new one and show your digs!