Awe.. that's a serious loss indeed. What an icon.

That is a crying shame. RIP Rupert

Surely a loss, what a giant he was...... RIP Mr. Neve

RIP Rupert.

I had an interview with him in the early 1970s and was offered the job to design his first digital console. To think that I turned it down....

Boswell that’s pretty amazing...you can’t just end your story there, what was the interview like? why did you turn it down?

Link555, post: 467544, member: 31690 wrote:
Boswell that’s pretty amazing...you can’t just end your story there, what was the interview like? why did you turn it down?

+1

Spill. I gots da popping corn

Link555, post: 467544, member: 31690 wrote:
Boswell that’s pretty amazing...you can’t just end your story there, what was the interview like? why did you turn it down?

I have to say I can't remember a huge amount about it, as it was a hectic time in my life. I had just started an academic position, and got a call out of the blue to ask if I would go to the Neve factory, as they would like to talk to me. It was before the days of what became known as "headhunting", but my name had been given as someone who had published a research project involving industrial hybrid digital and analogue processing, a novelty at the time.

I recall being shown around a barn of a place that had workbenches down the length on both sides and the middle, with rows of ladies assembling wiring looms. There was a development lab, which was surprisingly empty, but had a senior engineer with his head inside a tape machine.

Back in Rupert's office, he dug out some photos of a rack full of gear and said this is what had caught his eye - the first commercially-available 16-bit A-D converter. He had been waiting for these to become available, as that was the minimum specification he could accept for audio. I believe the rack was made by Sperry, but I can't be sure of that. At that time, Rupert did not have much experience with digital work, and he had mis-read the paragraph in the article that talked about this converter running at 100 microseconds. He thought that meant 100KHz, and so would be very suitable for professional audio use. He went very quiet when I pointed out that 100 microseconds was only 10KHz, so was unlikely to be suitable.

We discussed possible ways round the speed problem, as I knew that the speed was largely being limited by the D-A conversion of the partial result inside the converter. I explained how you could pipeline these operations, doing the first fraction of the conversion relatively slowly and handing on the partial result to a second and third process that could run quicker. I remember using the analogy of a Consultant Surgeon doing the delicate bit of an operation and moving on to the next patient while the junior doctors stitched up the first one. Rupert's eyes lit up when he got the point, and he banged his hand down on the desk "THAT'S what we'll do!"

I eventually had to admit that I was not in in a position to drop what I was doing and join his team, but hoped that I had given him a few pointers as to how it could be done. It was some years before I saw any Neve digital product on the market, and it was nice to think that I might have played a small part in it.

Boswell, post: 467555, member: 29034 wrote:
I have to say I can't remember a huge amount about it, as it was a hectic time in my life. I had just started an academic position, and got a call out of the blue to ask if I would go to the Neve factory, as they would like to talk to me. It was before the days of what became known as "headhunting", but my name had been given as someone who had published a research project involving industrial hybrid digital and analogue processing, a novelty at the time.

I recall being shown around a barn of a place that had workbenches down the length on both sides and the middle, with rows of ladies assembling wiring looms. There was a development lab, which was surprisingly empty, but had a senior engineer with his head inside a tape machine.

Back in Rupert's office, he dug out some photos of a rack full of gear and said this is what had caught his eye - the first commercially-available 16-bit A-D converter. He had been waiting for these to become available, as that was the minimum specification he could accept for audio. I believe the rack was made by Sperry, but I can't be sure of that. At that time, Rupert did not have much experience with digital work, and he had mis-read the paragraph in the article that talked about this converter running at 100 microseconds. He thought that meant 100KHz, and so would be very suitable for professional audio use. He went very quiet when I pointed out that 100 microseconds was only 10KHz, so was unlikely to be suitable.

We discussed possible ways round the speed problem, as I knew that the speed was largely being limited by the D-A conversion of the partial result inside the converter. I explained how you could pipeline these operations, doing the first fraction of the conversion relatively slowly and handing on the partial result to a second and third process that could run quicker. I remember using the analogy of a Consultant Surgeon doing the delicate bit of an operation and moving on to the next patient while the junior doctors stitched up the first one. Rupert's eyes lit up when he got the point, and he banged his hand down on the desk "THAT'S what we'll do!"

I eventually had to admit that I was not in in a position to drop what I was doing and join his team, but hoped that I had given him a few pointers as to how it could be done. It was some years before I saw any Neve digital product on the market, and it was nice to think that I might have played a small part in it.

What a great story, Bos. Thank you for sharing this! We're fortunate to have you with us here too.

:unsure:i wonder what this means to the company?

Kurt Foster, post: 467575, member: 7836 wrote:
i wonder what this means to the company?

I suspect they will continue. Being said, DAWs are the future and everything is going to be ITB with less and less need or support for anything more than a control surface.

i don't agree.

iTB has gotten a lot better, but There is something about working outside the box that is so much more satisfying. And if you are lucky enough to have mixed on a Neve it’s really hard not too. :)

i concede itb is dominant in the home / hobby studios but from what i've observed any studio that can, has a console.

there's independent gear sluts who are going back to smaller consoles/ mixers too, for mojo or whatever it is they think it brings to the table or bragging rights.

for what it's worth, i know itb is here to stay for sure but it will always be a virtual mixing experience that offers different results than a traditional large format console. the main advantage (broken promise) to itb is the cost vs. a real mixing console. with few exceptions, smaller table top mixer wonn't measure up to a real Neve, API, MCI etc.

Link555, post: 467579, member: 31690 wrote:
iTB has gotten a lot better, but There is something about working outside the box that is so much more satisfying. And if you are lucky enough to have mixed on a Neve it’s really hard not too. :)

Tracking yes, once ITB no. Mixing otb is not even close to ITB
But even nice tracking hardware sounds better (for now a least) I doubt the new generation will subscribe to $500,000 consoles to keep companies like NEve, API etc going when we all can do it at home on a computer “close enough “.
As AI grows... using hardware will all become silly imho. The new music will all follow every to do with online and being ITB .

The electrical issues running big rail gear, globally, will likely become an issue as well. I predict Some day houses won’t even have that kind of power available to run big rail gear.

audiokid, post: 467582, member: 1 wrote:
Tracking yes, once ITB no. Mixing otb is not even close to ITB

I much prefer mixing OTB, its like a performance especially without automation. To my mind that performance part of the mix is where the magic happens.

audiokid, post: 467582, member: 1 wrote:
I doubt the new generation will subscribe to $500,000 consoles to keep companies like NEve, API etc going when we all can do it at home on a computer “close enough “.

the point isn't to keep anyone going, it's for a better expierence tracking and mixing. for some people, good enough isn't. you have to be buying a pretty big console to get to the $500,000 mark. there's plenty of new 24 channel consoles available for far less than that.

Link555, post: 467583, member: 31690 wrote:
I much prefer mixing OTB, its like a performance especially without automation. To my mind that performance part of the mix is where the magic happens.

Definitely mixing OTB is fun compared to using a small screen and a mouse but I was referring in terms of sound quality. I've does many test comparing mixes with world class gear and there is no comparison. ITB always sounds better. Never the less... we should be doing this for fun too.

I listened to a program the other day specifically discussing the future generations. For various reasons the concept of owning "things" is becoming a thing of the past. I think we would be naive to think this exempts us in the music business. People don't care if they even own songs.

Kurt Foster, post: 467584, member: 7836 wrote:
the point isn't to keep anyone going, it's for a better expierence tracking and mixing. for some people, good enough isn't. you have to be buying a pretty big console to get to the $500,000 mark. there's plenty of new 24 channel consoles available for far less than that.

I agree, as you know I owned a pretty amazing rig of gear a few years back but was happy to sell the mass of it for a few reasons. After seeing what a round trip does, that part was a no brainer. ITB sounds better. So if most people agree with that, keeping gear that doesn't sound as good as computers, I knew I loved looking at it all but couldn't justify degrading music just because it looked good.

Second reason, all gear eventually degrades so I figured if I didn't get rid of it soon, I wouldn't be able to sell anything without loosing thousands. The lust for hardware is dying.
The list why ITB just makes more sense goes on and on but I do agree that there is nothing better to my ears than "tracking" a vocal through something like a vintage LA2A and a big rail pre with lush mics in a good room. My love for modular recording rigs make way more scene to owning a budget console that limits you to its budget sound. So, how do you compare a budget console to a few tracking tools that costs more than the console itself.
In the end... you still need the AD and a DAW in the end. You still need to get your music out to the world, on video etc. In a few years there will be even more reasons why computers are the core to it all and a console is more of a thing of the past. Now if we are talking about a control surface... then absolutely. Bring on more control!
People like us old farts love that day of a console but I can't see line ups of people investing in high quality consoles enough to keep these vintage companies going. Dollar for dollar, ITB is a no brainer.

this line https://www.rupertneve.com/ranges/500-series/ in combination with a daw makes perfect sense. I see Neve continuing along this path.

I now have a 75in 4k tv and a 65in 4K side by side and it is so friken awesome working ITB with these. Very easy on the eyes as well.
Mixing on a tiny monitor like you did back in you day Kurt was horrible... but those days are long gone.

i agree ... for your situation and 95% of anyone who frequents these kind of boards, itb is what's happening. but most of those people would never be using a LFC in the fist place if there were no DAW's ... they would be recording on Tascam 388's, cassette multi trackers or at best Mackie's and ADATS.

but that doesn't mean that LFC's are a thing of the past. there are just as many manufacturers making LFC's now as ever and just as much demand.

Kurt Foster, post: 467588, member: 7836 wrote:
there are just as many manufacturers making LFC's now as ever and just as much demand

I had no idea.
coolest modern console I’ve owned (aside from the Neos) are Studio Live series. The setback of the series we had couldn’t bypass their (budget) preamps. If you could utilize outboard preamps, bypassing theirs, that would be a great improvement.
Maybe the new StudioLive series are wired to do this now?
Never the less, $3000 for those is a killer deal. Most of what they are is a DAW inside a console that syncs with their ITB DAW.

you should check those out Kurt, they really are super cool.

i'm about ready to pull the trigger on a new (old) system. but it is not going to be a DAW, it will be all analog.

recently i've been sourcing a few pieces of used gear and i'm just about ready to get started on it (check my avatar). i have no reason or rhyme to why i'm doing this. i'm half dead and half deaf (68, COPD, diabetes and high blood pressure bad knees and back ... and nothing over 8 or 9 k) and i know there are far and few clients to serve but it's something i just can't get out of my head.

i'm getting older and i'm sitting on a house that's worth a lot of cash with no mortgage. we don't have anyone to leave it to and i don't want to just let the county take it after we kack so, i've decided to pull a boatload of cash out it and start living the big life again. we have been living month to month on a fixed income for quite some time so it will be nice to have cash in the bank to play with.

gonna fix up the house, buy the wifie a newer car and a few goodies and build myself a nice little analog 8 track room in my house with a small live room and an even smaller control area and hire some kid that can hear good to help out.

it's going to be pretty cool and i'm hoping to record some cool stuff in the vein of the "old school" studio house bands like the Swampers, the Wrecking Crew or the Funk Brothers.

tounge in cheek i'm thinking Po'Town Records or Shabby Road ..... lol!

Kurt Foster, post: 467590, member: 7836 wrote:
i'm about ready to pull the trigger on a new (old) system. but it is not going to be a DAW, it will be all analog.

recently i've been sourcing a few pieces of used gear and i'm just about ready to get started on it. i have no reason or rhyme to why i'm doing this. i'm half dead and half deaf (68 and nothing over 8 or 9 k) and i know there are far and few clients to serve but it's somthing i just can't get out of my head.

but i'm getting older and i'm sitting on a house that's worth a lot of cash with no mortgage. we don't have anyone to leave it to and i don't want to just let the county take after we kack so, i've decided to pull a boatload of cash out it and start living the big life again. we have been living month to month on a fixed income so it will be nice to have a boatload of cash in the bank to play with.

gonna fix up the house, buy the wifie a newer car and a few goodies and build myself a nice little analog 8 track room in my house with a small live room and an even smaller control area. it's going to be pretty cool and i'm hoping to record some cool stuff in the vein of the "old school" studio house bands like the Swampers, the Wrecking Crew or the Funk Brothers.

That's awesome , Kurt! Go for it! Looking forward to hearing all about it.

Sounds a great idea, Kurt! I like it!

With no DAW, what are you planning as the storage medium? Hard disks, memory cards, analogue tape, quill and parchment?

I've heard Mr. Neve was still doing designs of xformers up until recently. Im hoping that there is a nice back catalog of designs that rnd can release in honor of the great designer.

Congrats Kurt! Can't wait to hear more about it!

I think the future for analog gear will be digitally controlled analog. MCdsp has a unit like this, and slowly others are releasing units with this type of functionality. Burl has done well with their convertsion that features more or less the fron end of a tape machine.

One advatange beside instant recall, is you can keep the analog gear in a machine closet ect, out of the way of the sound path between ears and speakers.

I think the future for analog gear will be digitally controlled analog. MCdsp has a unit like this, and slowly others are releasing units with this type of functionality. Burl has done well with their convertsion that features more or less the fron end of a tape machine.

Yes sir, the market for this be well establish. Neve was all over it.

https://www.rupertneve.com/products/rmp-d8/

As well many IC foundries for the last 10-15 years have been into this...

THAT has some nice hybrid solution out there,
http://www.thatcorp.com/datashts/THAT_626x_Datasheet.pdf

Boswell, post: 467592, member: 29034 wrote:
Sounds a great idea, Kurt! I like it!

With no DAW, what are you planning as the storage medium? Hard disks, memory cards, analogue tape, quill and parchment?

i was thinking Edison cylinders! lol.  

.... analog tape for multi track and 2 mix ... an Audient ID4 to get mixes into a computer. i would like a 1" 8 track and a 1/2" 2 track but i will probably go with a 1/2" 8 and a 1/4" half track just to keep the maintenance down. big reels are heavy and put a lot of wear and tear on transports and i don't have anyone in the area to do the maintenance they require. i don't want to be down more than not. a decent 1/2" machine will be much more reliable. .

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The Audient ID4 is not the right device for getting a line-level stereo mix into a computer, but we can address that requirement when you have your room crammed with analogue gear.

I think the photos that Link posted of his friend with the racks full of vintage analogue boxes has given you ideas!

thanks Bos. it was a typo. Audiant ID14.

actually it's going to be a very small set up. a couple of small mixers, 2 reverbs, a delay, a couple of limiters and the tape machines.

Boswell, post: 467600, member: 29034 wrote:
I think the photos that Link posted of his friend with the racks full of vintage analogue boxes has given you ideas!

i've been thinking about this for years but i had a hard time justifying the expenditure based on the lack of prospect of any return.

but now i've decided what not? what am i saving for? i might as well spend some of it and have a good time. i can't take it with me. lol.

i admit finding Link here has spurred this on. a comptent tech is hard to find in my neck of the woods and i need mods done to the mixers i'm going to use. so in that respect you are correct.

That's more like it! The Audient ID14 even has an ADAT input, so you could connect your HD24 recorder. And with the ID14 control software, you would be running your DAW using the control surface software in no time. Woops! What did I just say?

Boswell, post: 467602, member: 29034 wrote:
That's more like it! The Audient ID14 even has an ADAT input, so you could connect your HD24 recorder. And with the ID14 control software, you would be running your DAW using the control surface software in no time. Woops! What did I just say?

mmm .... yeah. that's not going to happen.:LOL:

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