It takes over 20 years to really knoiw how to mix and master that mix, You got me so I would not fool with it much for you personally.

Cheap software would be T-racks. It is a cheap 32bit program to introduce you to what a mastered recordsing can resemble. I think it cost about 250 or so.

If you go back to analog via expensive console and really about 10 years of practice you can actually be a good mastering engineer.

The KEY to mastering is to let someone else do it...that is impartial to the sound and they will make a judgement based on sonic intergrety.

I have learned to do both quite effectively, took me over 20 years and I am still using new techniqes.

ok I think I will look at T-racks...And tnx for your advice

A tip .. the more you do the more you learn, no matter what. So, take a mix and don't "master" it. Put it on a cd or dat, whatever.
Now, take that mix, and try to create what you're thinking about as far as using some of the mastering tools available to you.
You can do several stabs with a song you like on that mix with different mastering tools used.. take steps, 1st just bring levels up to commercial standards, 2nd add a touch of some EQ curve and then bring the levels up to commercial levels, 3rd compress (ouch) the mix (if ya just gotta!)and bring the levels up, 4th compress and add eq and bring the levels up.
Mark each one, and if you can not clearly hear all the differences .. don't master it! Instead leave it alone, with perhaps only setting levels to some even level... but listen over and over anywhere you can to each of those stabs until you can ID as best you can which is which, and why you like or don't like it. This could take a good chunk of time .. months perhaps. Then do the same thing with some other tunes. Consistancy, understanding, and confidence will be the result. It will require real personal honesty and time .. just as Bill is saying .. it takes time, you learn, and then you learn more.. if you don't, then stop and do something else; you'll drive yourself crazy if you just guess at it.
This was my tact, and it has worked well enough for me to know to have the "regular mix" and the "messed with mix" .. and my "mastered mixes" sound very good, but I frankly just dust them with a very few things, knowiung I always have that "regular mix" in the can when it gets asked for.

Good advice K-Sound.

Actually,

AzzXaA is the band ONE MOTION from Sweden.

See http:// for their site.

I am working the mixdown and it will be another 3 weeks before that is done and then a week to master it. He has MP3's on his site of demo mixdowns (way too compressed) but it is coming strong.

I think he is so eager to hear what I am doing and learn and I definitly want to keep a log of what I do to help him as he knows a lot of good things in tracking and mixing.

I would love for them to produce finished mixes for me to master and that is where we are heading.

It is fun!!

Since you think that's the worse advice on the forum, Ill keep to my self, and continue ripping out masters, for the endless client list of recording studios and independent labels, And just to add, I've read the book. Probably didn't even listen to my work before you started giving your opinion.

Everyone thinks they know how to master a track, but how many people spend 8 hours a day 6 days a week mastering audio

AzzXaA, post: 34926 wrote: what exactly do I do to master.?

What is mastering?
http://recording.org/content/381-waltz-mastering-studio-what-mastering.html
http://recording.org/content/395-what-mastering-do-you-need.html

cdmasternow, post: 343600 wrote: What you do to master is isn't the question to ask, the question to ask is what will benefit the mix. Lets say i get a mix from a home studio owner, The sounds in the mix are decent but nothings balanced, First i would start with some radical Equalization. I HAVE TO STRESS, if you must use more extreme Equalization, Your monitors and your room must be accurate as can be unless your looking at some serious damage to the track, Then after the track has a better balance run a compressor, lightly, If you recording rock or metal and trying to get your recordings as loud as the ones you hear today, That will never happen with a limiter, You need a multi-band compressor that can soft clip the signal.
Now lets say your mastering a techno mix, Mixed by a pro, sounds great, rips out of the speakers. The only bands of eq that i would even think of using is an extreme low end to remove dc offset and all the unneeded bass, if the mix is way bass heavy just shelf it. back to the mix that rips out of the speakers, because of the type of music it is, i would go digital with lets say a waves c1 compressor, take it use side chain and look ahead, set your ratio extremely high, top it out 50:00, Then take your release pull it down to 1, then your attack your going to find somewhere between 17 and 20 ms. be very care full using this technique, If done right you will find a solid bottom end. The only time I use limiters on mastering is when im using an analog limiter, this music is generally something that doesn't need to be ripping loud, I do alot of hip hop and rap music for independent labels, 9 times out of 10 I soft clip with a multi-band.
When doing this you again have to be careful. If you turn off the soft clip you will notice that your track is clipping extremely over its limits. So when you are pulling to 0.0 while soft clipping, make sure you stay right in that area and no where else. I have brought metal mixes to as high as 5-6 rms for an average with out any clipping, and only sacrificing about 50% of the dynamics.

Basically to sum everything im saying up. when i receive a mix that is going out for major release, It barley needs anything, a dab of eq a little bit of compression, and its ready to go.
Spend your time perfecting your art of your mixing. Once every mix you pull is golden, you will know how to master a track just by the knowledge and experiences you have had

Guys,

This is some of the WORST advice I have ever seen on this forum.

Sorry but true.

I think you need to read Bob Katz's book [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.digido.c…"]Mastering Audio Book[/]="http://www.digido.c…"]Mastering Audio Book[/] before you give any more "advice"

This is NOT a flame but a simple statement of fact.

FWIW and YMMV

By the way if you are giving advice you should use a spell checker and not use Barley (which is a plant) when you mean barely. In mastering the devil is in the details.

Guys,

This is some of the WORST advice I have ever seen on this forum.

Sorry but true.

I think you need to read Bob Katz's book Mastering Audio Book before you give any more "advice"

This is NOT a flame but a simple statement of fact.

FWIW and YMMV

By the way if you are giving advice you should use a spell checker and not use Barley (which is a plant) when you mean barely. In mastering the devil is in the details.

I looked at your webpage, and myspace, I cannot find any mastered audio samples from you anywhere, I really would like to hear what you think would be good advice, or even some albums you have recorded? You must have hundreds of mixes from all the recording experience you have. Im not saying anything about what you know or what you can do, But theres no proof of either, and from the pictures I saw of you two, are you even out of high school yet?

" sprinkles barley on hot dog "

cdmasternow, post: 343719 wrote: I looked at your webpage

While we're looking at web sites, I had a quick peak and found some interesting stuff on yours:

"Prices include set up time,
.wav files, Master Disc, Reference disc, and a Glass master for replication."

Really? You guys provide glass masters?

What kind of ultrasonic baths are you using?

So I take it you have a a class 100 (ISO 5) or better "clean room"?

"What file type should I send?
The largest , with the highest bit and sample rate."

Your client does a SRC?

"What can I expect from mastering?
Your volume levels will match or exceed anything you can compare it to, while maintaining all the dynamics of the original mix."

What kind of gear are you using to do that?

(Sprinkles butter on popcorn...)  

Alot of people that ask about glass masters, they just want a master disc to be replicated from, would you really like me to have that changed?

how about every one stops bashing each other, and anyone who wants to, such as waltz, massive, audio people who first answered me. We all find a great mix we have laying around from somewhere, We exchange the mixes so everyone has identical mixes, then we post the masters up and let the good people of this forum decide?

might even be fun

then everyone can stop cutting each other down, and do what we do best. any takers?

I think the point TW was trying to make is that you're NOT creating glass masters but for some reason, you're advertising it.

If you *think* you're creating glass masters, that shows a nearly unfathomable amount of ignorance.

If your *clients think* they're getting glass masters, then it's up to you to correct *their* ignorance. But it very clearly states on your page (evidently) that you're supplying a master disc, a reference disc and a glass master. If that's the case, you should probably answer TW's question about your clean room and ultrasonic equipment.

We all find a great mix we have laying around from somewhere, We exchange the mixes so everyone has identical mixes, then we post the masters up and let the good people of this forum decide?

When did this turn into a pissing contest?

Ed...?

*sprinkles butter on barley corn*

If there's a girl and a boy about to make out, you know that someones gonna get slaughtered.

cdmasternow, post: 343719 wrote: I looked at your webpage, and myspace, I cannot find any mastered audio samples from you anywhere, I really would like to hear what you think would be good advice, or even some albums you have recorded? You must have hundreds of mixes from all the recording experience you have. Im not saying anything about what you know or what you can do, But theres no proof of either, and from the pictures I saw of you two, are you even out of high school yet?

The two people you are referring to were working with me at the time. They no longer work here. I have been a professional audio engineer for over 40 years.

As to samples.....I really don't think someone listening to a before and after MP3 on computer speakers is really any indication of how good my mastering sounds. Potential clients who want to hear samples of the before and after are always welcome to stop by and listen and if needed I can always do a quick mastering of their material while they are here as a demo.

I notice you don't have ANY pictures on your website. So I am assuming a bedroom or basement?

Again a good spell checker does wonders for your image. There is no such word as theres

Why is this thread from 2002 reborn?

Welcome to the forum CD.

This forum is mostly engineers talking audio with other engineers. Introduce yourself and join in the discussions.

cdmasternow, post: 343764 wrote: Alot of people that ask about glass masters, they just want a master disc to be replicated from, would you really like me to have that changed?

how about every one stops bashing each other, and anyone who wants to, such as waltz, massive, audio people who first answered me. We all find a great mix we have laying around from somewhere, We exchange the mixes so everyone has identical mixes, then we post the masters up and let the good people of this forum decide?

might even be fun

then everyone can stop cutting each other down, and do what we do best. any takers?

If you advertise that you provide glass masters then I guess you should provide them. If not then you should take that statement off your website.

Reading your replies with spelling errors and no capitalization makes ME wonder how old you are. You don't have to reply.

As to everyone doing a mastering and posting the results. Brad Blackwood's forum on PSW has a WUMP contest every so often you might want to join in if that is important to you.

Hello everybody!
First post here and starting here is a great way to see that there is a lot of audio engineers that have less work to do than post on forum... discussing with each other!

One thing I miss on this forum, immediatly as I registered was one forum that gave musicians and other artists the chance to know audio engineers, mixing and mastering professionals helping out and even colaborating for a tight budget or even for free!

Some of us are light on work... well I'm speaking for myself right now, and I would like to see beyond the existing forum bashing rough and awfull mixes and mastering jobs done by someone who don't know even what this subjects are... a forum with straight colaboartion between who needs who!

That would be something!

I'm willing to do mixing and mastering jobs and other services almost for nthing or nothing at all... Well first things first right!? Th first thing I may give you as a reasong for this is... I love what I do on my studio... and when I have almost nothing to do beyond posting on forum is to help someone... like mixing and mastering their work...

Cheers all!

About the post and question... m8 start reading and searching on the net about mastering... first what it is... which tools you may use!

Welcome to the forum.

GREAT IDEA! Free mastering and mixing for people who cannot afford it.

If you are doing it all for free how do you support yourself? Are you independently wealthy? Are you Warren Buffet's son or long lost cousin of Bill Gates? Do you work for the government of Portugal or maybe you are the government of Portugal.

I am sure you will have a lot of people taking you up on your offer and I sincerely wish you well.

However as my Grandfather use to say "there is no such thing as a free lunch" so what is the catch??? I see by your website that you are offering to master one song for free and then it says you have reasonable rates for the rest. I guess I understand more. What you are really offering is to do one song for free and then the client starts paying??? Lots of on line mastering studios do that. What makes you different?

Easy...
I do mix and master with flat rates.. yes... however i do choose to mix and master some for free... it's me who choose and I'll do it with most joy ever... since I love what I do!
I do have clients which pay me and provide me with the intents I need to support my audio professional activities... but some as you say don't have the chance to have a mixing and mastering projects as it should be... professionally speaking. And for those I do mix and master for free... but those don't hire me I choose them! There is no catch... I only ask that the final project, being mixing or/and mastering to release me 3 or 4 songs with 30 seconds each to promote my work on that project, showing my experience, knowledge of previous works to future clients... and that's it!

And to finish... as I previously said, the mixing and mastering jobs nowadays are without the past flowing... well in the past 5 years I mean... and as you know the boom of project and home studios have condicioned our flux of work today. So it's my choice... I say it's a good one... which leads me to a no stopping work point... which I prefer instead of writing blogs and posting on forums all day long... What do you say about this?

And hey, please take a good look at my country which has less artists, musicians and of course workflow comparing with yours which is huge and you have more probabilities to get paid for your work than mine. That's why I have to enlarge my horizons throught internet accepting foreign projects... and enlarge my professional "portfolio". Hope you understand my point!

I'm going to go against the grain here a little and say, I think you are on a partially right track. The right part is that you are willing to prove yourself, Do stuff you believe in, do a good job, and use the references. The wrong part is that you are doing it in the wrong place. Most of us here are working ME's, doing this for a living. So someone coming in and advertising Free is going to get you a little resistance. Your best bet would be to "go to the source". browse say myspace and find bands that you like and contact them directly. Then come here and discuss the art and science of doing the job, doing it better, doing it different etc... I started very much the same way you are, but without the internet. I'm more of a cast a line and catch a fish rather than throw a net and catch seaweed. I like your response and your work ethic, just direct the energy to a more productive avenue.

Well Michael, I'm certain that you are respecting my point of view... however I must say that I started by saying that it should be a forum for collaboration only... and I didn't see one... and Quoting myself"One thing I miss on this forum, immediately as I registered was one forum that gave musicians and other artists the chance to know audio engineers, mixing and mastering professionals helping out and even collaborating for a tight budget or even for free!"... and as I say I have foreign clients to... not only home country work so... I'm not advertising in anyway, well without any direct intention, I mean... this kind of services... and I will not repeat myself on that terms again on this forum, first 'cause I don't want disrespect my working colleagues... which I respect profoundly... either their business. So it's a done subject for me!

I hope I didn't give the wrong impression about me and my work... and hope the best for all you amazing professionals!

don't take my post the wrong way, I think you are doing it the right way (IMO). I hope you post often. There are a lot of "been there done that" ME's here. Lots of insight and experience.

leopoldolopes, post: 343828 wrote: Easy...
I do mix and master with flat rates.. yes... however i do choose to mix and master some for free... it's me who choose and I'll do it with most joy ever... since I love what I do!
I do have clients which pay me and provide me with the intents I need to support my audio professional activities... but some as you say don't have the chance to have a mixing and mastering projects as it should be... professionally speaking. And for those I do mix and master for free... but those don't hire me I choose them! There is no catch... I only ask that the final project, being mixing or/and mastering to release me 3 or 4 songs with 30 seconds each to promote my work on that project, showing my experience, knowledge of previous works to future clients... and that's it!

And to finish... as I previously said, the mixing and mastering jobs nowadays are without the past flowing... well in the past 5 years I mean... and as you know the boom of project and home studios have condicioned our flux of work today. So it's my choice... I say it's a good one... which leads me to a no stopping work point... which I prefer instead of writing blogs and posting on forums all day long... What do you say about this?

And hey, please take a good look at my country which has less artists, musicians and of course workflow comparing with yours which is huge and you have more probabilities to get paid for your work than mine. That's why I have to enlarge my horizons throught internet accepting foreign projects... and enlarge my professional "portfolio". Hope you understand my point!

With the internet it really doesn't make any difference where you are located anyone can FTP you songs to master so your point about "And hey, please take a good look at my country which has less artists, musicians and of course workflow comparing with yours which is huge and you have more probabilities to get paid for your work than mine." is not really true and in fact there are way more "mastering engineers' or "wannabee mastering engineers" here so the field is much more overcrowded.

When I got started I did exactly what you are proposing. I did mastering for friends and out of work musicians (imagine that) for very little money and slowly built up my clientele, most of whom I still have as clients. The one major difference was back when I started I had a dial up modem and there were no such places as Recording.Org to read or to post. I like your idea but as Michael has said this is a mastering forum populated by mastering engineers or people who want to be mastering engineers so you are posting FREE mastering in a place where it really does not have any meaning or usefulness.

As to getting clients. It is something that we all face on a daily basis. You rise and fall on your reputation and the more you do the more clients find out about you. You have a very well done website and I am sure you attract a lot of clients off the internet. I second Michael suggestion to find people you want to work with and contact them about your "free" mastering services. I don't know how it is where you do business but people around here always want cheap to reasonable mastering rates. The offer of free mastering usually will turn them off since they think you don't know what you are doing and are just trying to get some experience at their expense.

Again...best of luck and let us know how things are going.

cdmasternow, post: 343600 wrote: Since you think that's the worse advice on the forum, Ill keep to my self, and continue ripping out masters, for the endless client list of recording studios and independent labels, And just to add, I've read the book. Probably didn't even listen to my work before you started giving your opinion.

Everyone thinks they know how to master a track, but how many people spend 8 hours a day 6 days a week mastering audio

Since this topic is about Mastering advise. Could you please tell me what gear you are using to do your mastering?

I personally think it hilarious that this post was created back in 2002 and still haunting us to the current day... lol. But I personally believe I could master in my "crap" system as good as CDMASTERNOW. And if he wants a challenge to mater a mixed track... then bring it on and let the pros judge it... Anyone think this could be arranged. I would love the opportunity to engage w/ this poster about his mastering practices and then use wavelab/soundforge/plugins to do exactly what he is trying to sell...

yup, in 60 secs or less.

The Classical A/B is so pathetic and an embarrassment to the business. The music isn't even an acoustic example. Sounds like its a product demo for some VSTi keyboard. He took that and smashed it.

I can hardly take being diplomatic anymore. People buy a DAW, load in the crap plug-ins in and they are in business telling the world, with pride, that they are qualified mastering engineers, in a Pro ME forum!

I created a new forum called Home Studio Mastering for the Newbie section. We can move threads into it to help educate the newbies who are sincere to learn. Hopefully we get less in here

audiokid, post: 351310 wrote: yup, in 60 secs or less.

The Classical A/B is so pathetic and an embarrassment to the business. The music isn't even an acoustic example. Sounds like its a product demo for some VSTi keyboard. He took that and smashed it.

I can hardly take being diplomatic anymore. People buy a DAW, load in the crap plug-ins in and they are in business telling the world, with pride, that they are qualified mastering engineers, in a Pro ME forum!

I created a new forum called Home Studio Mastering for the Newbie section. We can move threads into it to help educate the newbies who are sincere to learn. Hopefully we get less in here

GREAT IDEA!!!!!! I hope it helps the newbies but the problem is that as you stated anyone can go out and buy a computer, down load some cracked software and put a sign up on their website or hand out fliers at clubs saying "Professional Mastering done here" so to their minds there is no such thing as a newbie to mastering. The way the whole profession of mastering has been cheapened recently really is too bad (and sad) but I guess in this WalMart world we all currently live in everyone wants the best but does not want to pay for it. I now get clients calling me up and telling me what they are going to pay for their mastering. When I tell them our rates they get upset and say "but I can go on the WWW and get my stuff mastered by a "professional" for $5 per song so why should I pay you what you are asking for the privilege of mastering my material. I just smile and say "thanks for call" and hang up. They have nary a clue... which is one of the biggest problems facing mastering engineers today.

Asparagus farming it really starting to look better and better.

FWIW and MTCW

Opening up a Home Studio Mastering section is certainly a good idea.
I am sick and tired of being challenged all the time when correcting some of the worst advices given by obvious wannabies ( not particularly in this forum, but more often in other so-called Pro Audio sites I used to post in ).

The immediate question and claimes come up: who, the hell, are you anyhow? You must be a moron, knowing nothing...
You are prolly a fat geek sitting indoors all the time, living from unemployment money......show me your works..

We have done this in the 70's/80's, but not now, anymore... Seems a generation problem...
There is a saying I want to cite very often, but then it is kinda unpolite, so, I just think it..:
"Da hast du noch nicht mal hingeschnüffelt, wo ich schon hingeschissen habe!"

Big K

For a better world and better education...lol...

Glad you guys approve.

I'm debating a Private High End Audio Forum. I've spent the last month surfing forums (not just here) and I'm seeing a mass increase of low end dominating pro audio forums which is okay for the newbies but its not so good for us. Time to make a change.

The music industry is evolving. The digital world has bring new formats from DSD to mp3 and even worse. The mastering market has also evolved. High end mastering studios still have their role to play, but more and more poeple are producing tracks at home and can't spend more money in mastering than what cost their tune to record and mix. Online music doesn't provide the same revenues as CD sales.

Top noch mastering facilities must still propose a top quality "sur mesure" service. While new low-budget services are offered to self productions and musicians needing their tracks to be heard in good conditions even if these almost "ready-to-were" solutions can't be compared with the job of talented tailors.
I'm in this low end industry, just running my algoritm on servers. I really don't think my clients can offer to pay 50 or 100 $ per track. But I'm sure helping them to bring their tracks near the commercial standard helps them to sell their music. I'm also sure that once they will have a real production budget, they will want to try a high-end solution for their mastering.
We're all part of the same evolving ecosystem.

I think the problem is that there are online "mastering" sites that basically run files through a set of plugins and call that mastering. They fumble and guess at what is going to make it sound "good". Then like CDMastersnow throw up a website with misleading and FALSE information. Sure it's nice to get things done on a budget but these people are flat out scamming. They aren't doing any better a job than anyone could do on their own. The definition of what mastering is has been skewed from it's original purpose.

I've just noticed that DSD doesn't feature in the Wiki of this site.
Here is a usefull [[url=http://[/URL]="http://en.wikipedia…"]link.[/]="http://en.wikipedia…"]link.[/]
Here are two additional document from Merging on the same subject:
http://www.merging.com/uploads/assets/Merging_pdfs/dsd1.pdf
http://www.merging.com/uploads/assets//Merging_pdfs/dxd_Resolution_v3.5.pdf
Sorry I don't think my english is good enough to be a reliable contributor for your Wiki

hueseph, post: 351485 wrote: They aren't doing any better a job than anyone could do on their own. The definition of what mastering is has been skewed from it's original purpose.

Most people attempting to master their own work simply don't have the basic knowledge to do the job. Most DAWs now feature a multiband compressor which is a very effective tool to ruin a mix when used by a beginner. All my clients tried to do it by themself before submiting a file for an online test.

Speaking as a beginner that has been working w/ different(plugins) multiband compressors for roughly 3 years... I think that what you start out doing is intensive changes to the mix in the mastering stage. Then as you start realizing what you are doing wrong (which more is less) you start simplifying. I think the word for a decent and a great mastering sound is... Transparency. But there is no way to get that pro touch with out the experience and the equipment that an experienced ME utilizes. I think a lowend mastering forum is gonna fun for us newbs out here thanks for adding this new forum. I will check back again soon.

Nothing wrong with low end mastering, processing, whatever you want to call it. there's a need for it, those willing to supply it, so I say great. Just do it right and you'll move up the ladder. We all know of some places that put up false pics, false gear, etc... If you see $50k worth of gear and they are charging $5 or $10 a song, it doesn't take a genius to plug in the numbers and find that it's just not possible. That said, there's lots of great software that in capable hands can do a respectable job and won't break the bank. Be honest with your clients and they'll respect you, and stick with you.

Michael Fossenkemper, post: 351548 wrote: Be honest with your clients and they'll respect you, and stick with you.

Well, that's probably the smartest thing i read in a long time...!!!
You have to build a real relationship with your clients, and that takes honesty and transparency...
Communication is the only true thing that makes you go in the right direction.