It's a disturbing trend. As long as labels and artist keep demanding we crush stuff, we're kind of at their mercy. Hopefully you and others will encourage clients to see the great advantage to restoring a wider dynamic range. Remember the days when songs actually got louder at the chorus? There is so much emotional energy in dynamics that artist are discarding by producing mono-level music. And you're right; you get tired and turn it off. Artist' are making their audiences turn off their music. It's not a great marketing strategy.

Like the "temporal wars" on "Enterprise", (based on the Star trek series by Gene Roddenberry), we are at, what is called "loudness wars"

Consumer CD players have a point where you can actually clip their outputs by creating a CD that is too hot.

When I first started in Digital, (1982) zero VU was at that time, -17dB.

This has been ignored and once this profession opened itself up to non professionals without the background of knowledge necessary to stay within the realm of consumer electronics, the standards changed for the worse. All but gone are organic recordings from popular acts due to ignorance AND stupidity.

Once, this profession was really taken seriously with labcoat technicians at the helm. I am one of those labcoat technicians actually but to "get the gig" it is imperitive to do "what the other fools do" or get left behind in the dust with statements..."can you make it louder?"

It is a trend that ALL mastering engineers want to put to an end.

The only way this can be addressed (IMHO) is for the consumer electronics manufactures to put a brick wall on their outputs at -10dB RMS and anything over that is simply rejected by the CD player as "unreadable".

Of course this will never happen.

I am for, forming an alliance with other mastering engineers to stop this foolishness.

The notion that "the guy that masters the loudest gets the money" is the epitome of ruining this art.

I would like to see how this will eventually get ironed out..but the future looks quite bleak actually in this regard.

Their are CD's on shelves that have signal to signal ratios of less than 3dB as we speak.

i am happy this issue came up.
when i was djing at some metal clubs i had alot of problums with new cds that came out --they were
too hot and alot of p.a equipment made it distort and it whould set off the limiters every second.
then i would play an older cd and it sounded great.also at home on my sterio
i always had problums with some cds that sounded good but still they were very very loud and i was getting tierd heaing them so i whould change to some old school stuff.
thats way i am always saying that volume isn"t the only thing important -somtimes its much better to have a less volume cd then one with over-volume.

All I can say is, this trend has ruined the latest cd's from two of my favorite artists. I don't even want to listen to them. I only do out of respect and in hopes that somehow I'll get used to it and start to enjoy the albums.

Ya'know, if I want the music louder I'll turn up the god-damn volume.

The other day, I popped in a cd after watching a DVD and the damn thing almost blew out my speakers (and ear drums).

It's getting rediculous, folks.

Mitchell

I too am very pissed about this. I bought the New Red Hot Chilli Peppers cd just the other day. I will be the first to tell you that I do not have a golden ear. Although when I popped this thing in for the first time I got some serious ear fatigue. Its the worst I have ever seen on an album. After I got really mad, I loaded each song in Cubase, and readjusted the audio levels. Now it is alot better, but I wish I didnt have to do that in the first place. There was NO dynamics to this wav at all. Go ahead and give it a shot. Load one of there new songs up in any wav editor, and prepare to be very surprised.

It's our fault. Our children are the ones doing this. Maybe we didn't raise them right. Maybe humankind has peaked out. My theory is we peaked around 1969. This is when horsepower in cars peaked. This is when music peaked. (IMHO) Never to return again. It's all downhill from here folks. As Lemmy from Motorhead said when asked about the future of mankind:" Were all going to melt into one big human stew."

Hey, does anybody remember some kids from Berkeley that invented this HDCD thing? (is that right, high definition CD, right?) What ever happened to that? Is it still around? I am still waiting for a CD that sounds like a good piece of vinyl. What CD do you think comes the nearest to this?

Hi all

I guess we all agree
It has got to stop

Let's all write some emails to magazines the (almost normal) people read.
Just an informative piece we could put together here as a whole.
Let's get together, make our points more clearly (laymanlike), write a concerned and also funny article and let's all email it to magazines.
f.e. Future music, Computer music, Interface, several message boards etc.

Let's bomb our opinion onto the world.
[sorry about this, couldn't stop myself]
No, seriously, we all know it, let's not argue to eachother, get it out there.

Let me start in a naive way:

'If I have the loudest song on the radio, I get the most attention....'

And (a bit more seriously):

'My favourite bar has the music on a really low volume. Music has to be very compressed or else I wouldn't hear anything in my favourite bar besides the occasional snare.'

So.

Let's not complain. Write something usefull together and we'll rain it all over them.

Enough is enough

Cheers

Ok, I have been doing decompression now for 22 years.

It can be done, uses gobs of computer power (now)(notice 64 bit 192K) and it is difficult, hard to teach.

Perhaps there is a way I can market this.

Look at the files.

Second picture is Sher "half breed" as I received it from the compressed CD remaster for a movie. Next is the remaster at 64/192

First pic is what I did to it..

Huge difference and I only had the trash file to work with.

Now those who want to scrutnize my screenshot, yes I use creatives archetechure for running my apogee cards and my prototype sony D/A,

I can go to 2 megs/second if need be.

This song was 1.5gigs for a single song in mastering.

Takes a super machine to do super fidelity.

It CAN be done...at a cost of experience and time.

High Definition Compatible Digital is a Pro Audio encode/decode process patented by Pacific Microsonics. The process encodes 20-Bits of information onto a 16-Bit disc allowing your music to sound more clear even when played on a non-decoding CD player. If you play an HDCD on a CD player with a decoder, you get the full 20-Bits of resolution.

The process also has an immaculate peak limiter which simulates tape saturation as level is increased. An HDCD played on a non-decoding CD player will sound like a loud, peak limited CD. When played on a CD player with a decoder, you get the fully restored dynamic range. This is perfect for music that needs to be "hot" for radio while allowing home listeners to be free of ear fatigue and experience the full emotional impact of a greater dynamic range.

Pacific Microsonics was purchased by Microsoft a few years ago. They have since made an agreement with Euphonix to manufacture and market the Model Two. Skywalker Sound recently purchased a few units to run a 5.1 room. I have a Model One which I like a lot. It’s not for everything. I have used it on a couple rock projects that just wanted to be very limited, but also on a few jazz and new age projects that wanted to be relatively loud for commercial release but have the option of allowing listeners to get back the dynamic range at home.

"HDCD provides more dynamic range, a more focused 3-D soundstage, and extremely natural vocal and musical timbre. With HDCD, you get the body, depth, and emotion of the original performance not a flat, digital imitation." (* from the HDCD web site) For more information on HDCD please visit: hdcd.com

:eek: Enough, something must be done heh heh, I vorked in zee laboratory, and come up wit dis monster....heh heh heh..currently in production.

(Dead Link Removed)

Pampers, Huggies, or Depends, you might need em the first time.

--Rick, aka (Mad Scientist)

I'm a fairly young guy who's fairly new to all of this, so even though i've known about the volume wars for several years now, all my favorite artists were doing it and I never seemed to care or even truly appreciate how bad it sounds... until I got ahold of the Avril Lavigne CD.

I like to do bit accurate transfers of CD tracks to my DAW for reference when mixing. This I did with the first track of Avril's album. I have logged hundreds of hours of listening on my K240's, but none of that prepared me for what I heard when the first chorus hit. This is absolutely the loudest CD I have ever heard, and I also have NSYNC's 'Bye, Bye, Bye' on my DAW for reference. Another notoriously loud track, this one was pushed several dB over, then normalized back down to -1.0 dB. Even this was weak in comparison. On Avril's track, in the chorus, I never saw the meters drop below -2.5 dB. Not once.

While i'm not a mastering engineer, or even a recording professional (yet), I want to help the fight. I do what I can by refusing to clamp down on the L2 on the tracks that I produce and educating everyone I can of the evil trend of overcompression. You should see some of the faces I get, even from non-musicians, when I zoom in on that waveform and show them those hacked off tops. They can't believe that it's a "pro" job. Then, when I explain Fletcher-Munson to them, it all seems to make sense.. or does it?

I know i'm not a "pro" and my opinion doesn't matter blah blah blah; I just wanted to give some perspective to this issue that I feel so strongly about.

By the way, did you all see [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.prorec.c…"]this[/]="http://www.prorec.c…"]this[/] one?

Peace. And Dynamics.

Folks, I hate to be negative, but I think the Genie's out of the bottle. I doubt that we will ever go back to dynamics in pop music. Things really took off when "mastering software" became available & cheap. Normalizers are everywhere. They threaten our sanity & professional lives. What's worse is that I have participated in this, because I can't say no. How do you tell a client that it's better to be a couple (or more) dB lower than the other discs on his CD changer. People might agree in theory, then realize the personal sales implications & opt to get that level. Complaints always arise. Major releases that contribute to this nasty trend should be boycotted.

Very few people sit & listen to 60 minutes of music at home anymore. Car stereo almost demands compression. This could be done more elegantly by putting a compressor as a button on the car stereo unit itself.

I ALWAYS try to cut vinyl from non-normalized, minimally compressed masters. Compression is not a given when vinyl is cut.

But CDs are the issue. Let's just hope level heads prevail when SACD & DVD Audio come up more in popularity. Maybe we can restore naturalness & increase quality at the same time?

Hopefully yours.....

Perhaps the production itself can be changed to have the tops of the songs start out soft.

We don't have to buy or listen to recordings that sound like ass ourselves. I will be on the refuse side of the coin. If the track cannot have at least a 12 dB signal to signal ratio, no need for my name to go on it unless it is a test tone CD.

So I lose business. Who cares, My decision.

Originally posted by Don Grossinger:
But CDs are the issue. Let's just hope level heads prevail when SACD & DVD Audio come up more in popularity. Maybe we can restore naturalness & increase quality at the same time?

I hope so too, but I am afraid someone will take them to the max as well, and start the whole thing over again :eek: .

A question, when is this stuff going to exceed the maximum permissible limit? Amplifiers run out of current eventually, are new chips going to be needed to handle this onslaught of power demand :c:

--Rick

I think we are witnessing the death throes of the Mastering Industry as we know it. It may survive but it will be in a truncated form. Only the top Mastering houses will remain to service the record industry because the record industry wants to run up front costs to create a situation where the artists don’t get paid a lot. Ton of charges convolute the books to the point no one can understand them. The rest of the business will be done by the artists themselves. This is evident to me judging from the posts readers here at RO have made regarding this topic. No matter how much we try to convince recordists to have their work mastered at a professional mastering facility, they continually opt to do it themselves against the best advice. I find this very frustrating. It is annoying that people will ask for advice and when it doesn’t fit their “game plan” they just go ahead and do it the way they wanted to in the first place. Just as “Pro” studios have fell by the wayside in favor of home recording so will “Pro” mastering. An unfortunate turn of events. Fats
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Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
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I Notice the words "normalize" and "compress" are both used to signify a bad thing as far as mastering goes (with regards to overdoing it). I normalize to -1dB. I normally compress as little as possible, Peaks at -1 and falling to -25 or 30 during program material. Should I be choosing a lower level as my absolute peak level or is this acceptable. Most of the music I am involved with is classical, folk , choral and acoustic / ethnic. I could really care less if my material is the loudest on the radio, but I think it should be in keeping with similar industry norms. Am I far off base with my methods?
Bill Y.

Bill, I look at the single loudest peak and do it to -0.05dB but then again, it depends on the music. An up tempo song may get this treatment...certainly a string quartet would not. It is relative to the music and how songs track together within an album.

On up tempo stuff, usually my RMS is around -18 I have classical that runs "piano" (p) for 85 % of the chart with one huge creshindo in the middle and one at the end, 30 min piece that actually RMS's at -34 and peaks at 0.05 for (ffff)

Again, it is taste.

You are safe with the -1dB. 99% of playback units can handle that. (CD players)

What is happening is 2-bus compression during mixing, another set of compressors in mastering, then backing off to -7DB then slamming the whole thing RMS at -4dB. This is the problem. For super heavy metal, -12dB has happened here RMS, the music needed it....but only after I decompressed the 2-bus that was at -6dB to begin with RMS.

As a live-long Rush fan, I'm pretty familure with the sound quality of their releases. This past year when the Vapor Trails CD was released, I was in total disbelieve. The levels were so high that it sounded distorded on anything I played it on. I almost blew the speakers in the car when my changer switched to this disk from the Rush Hemispheres CD. I ended up buying the record when it came out and dubbed it into the computer for a fast remaster to CD. I figured I couldn't go wrong as the levels couldn't be that hot on a record or the needle would jump out of the tracks!
Well, although it sounds much better, it still sounds overdriven and very harsh. I find this same trend in many releases and end up never listing to theme much.
Just thought I'd share my story with you.

Not one person here says they have a preference for the sound of clipped off, crunched and destroyed music.

Will the industry wise up?

SACD's I have also have (of popular music) a tendency to be brittle, bass shy, shrill and painful. Even the very well recorded original TOTO IV (well mixed too) on Super audio compact disc "sounds like ass".

Here you have a format capable of exceeding the quality of any analog machine out there, and this is what you get. Garbage. Not just one SACD but Roger Waters "in the flesh" (several others)...Nasty sounding.

If they butcher DSOM to be released on 03-03-03 then all is lost and calibration standards are gone. Remember, Alan Parsons "was not even approached" and he purposely mixed the album for Multichannel (Quad and dual Quad, 8 channels) use.

I blame the problem with SACD's on mastering engineers trusting behemouth speakers that measure flat to the low 20's in a lab room or free space room but cutting the bottom due to making it right in a bass heavy room ..hence, poor bottom on these SACD's. The "audiophile dip" at 3K is making them shrill. The ultra extended highs, making them sound rolled off. 2 Channel SACD are what I am talking about. Yes, they are even compressing the crap out of them.

Next problem.

Streaming internet. Their was a time when a 256K stream was very close to as good as it gets in playback. My Favorite stations in streaming have gone to heavy audio compression of the signal and they are nasty now.

ONLY the DVD-A releases I have heard of late tend to be very properly done in popular music and the LP's and old school CD's.

Other genres do not suffer the fate as bad as pop music and Rock.

I know of no engineer that really likes their work when they do this.

At least you can expect less from streaming as the bandwidth isn't possible to the masses. Radio stations typicaly have far less quality than a CD to begin with.
As far as I know, the radio stations have been compressing and limiting the shit out of everything for many years. And the typical buyer is first introduced to new bands via the radio. What is the purpose of making a CD so freaking maxed out then??? The dynamics are gone either way!

Streaming with high speed use to be the huge breath of fresh air. I enjoy classical, Jazz, Blues, etc.

KPIG use to have awesome "you are there quality" on a T1 line. Now some asshole has put what sounds like an optimod in line and the organic quality is gone.

I saw some rapper (don't much care for some of it) on MTV and everytime the snare would hit, the entire rap was sucked completely out.

2-bus compression mix
huge compression mastering
huge compression braodcast.

what is the use???

Now, the archives of KIPG still sound really good, especially the little feat.

Get winamp http://www.winamp.com click on mp3 stream and enjoy some concerts.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.kpig.com…"]KPIG[/]="http://www.kpig.com…"]KPIG[/]

I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel-The recording business is in trouble. Of course, they like to blame it on internet "piracy"

Well, here's an idea- release CD's that actually sound good. That way you can differentiate yourself from mp3's. If the product you sell sounds pretty much like crap, why would somebody buy it when they can download a version that sounds just a little crappier off the internet for free?

That's my 2 cent's worth. Which is just about the cost of a blank CD-R these days...

I think the problem not only lies with the squishing, normalizing and over compression, but the source material as well. While there is the occasional ray of sunshine with the success of artists like Norah Jones, the soup de' jour these days seems to be anger, sleazy bump and grind, self mutilation, promiscuity, hate, and more anger. The sound that kids want is anger and aggressiveness ie; LOUD! Songs that have a melody, say positive things and sound good aren't cool. This all emerges from the violence and human degradation that the movies and the teevee spews forth and a lack of willingness on the part of parents to pay attention to what their kids are watching or listening to. The whole damned entertainment industry is out of control in search of the next big score. …... Fats
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Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
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Although, I am not a huge fan of the morality police, Fats, you have a point.

Classical, Opera, Fine Jazz, finer things in life encompass less than 9% of record sales. When was the last time you saw a movie (or a movie was made) that did not have at least some sort of killing, mayhelm, violence, or hardship?

The recording and movie executives have only their wallets and the mirror to blame and cannot see into it for the fog.

As an experiment, I have a song here I am convinced is a hit record, I think I will show them what loud REALLY sounds like and see if I get a bite...can't beat them join them??? NO, it will be in their face the difference.

I have a tool that can produce the loudest CD possible. Howabout +16dB digital without hash?? Possable??? Well, go figure.

Wow this tread started out as "super loud CD'"

And I am about to take this thread even further off the original subject.

Since we are talking about the record companies as the "Evil Puppet Masters" that are incorporating these unjustices upon our music. I thought it would be a nice time to throw in my 2 cent theory about the only way this db level war will end. It Is by the death of major record labels all together. Someone up there on this tread mentioned the file sharing programs, and how much money the labels are losing because of this. I am not for ripping anyone off, but I see file sharing progs, as a means to kill 3 birds with 1 stone.

Those three birds being, super loud CD's, souless bands that have no real meaning, and greedy cut throat record labels.

First of all, if file sharing becomes the MAIN STREAM, and all of the population stops buying CD's, and downloads them instead, The record labels will soon go bankrupt. If this happens it will no longer be "profitable" to make music. It will not be something you can make a living off of. That is very tragic, but a good side to that would be, that the only people that would still make music is the TRUE music lovers, the TRUE musicians. I bet the quantity of the music would go way down, but the quality of the music would skyrocket!

The same thing could be said about the medical industry in this country. If becoming a doctor didn't mean you will become a millionaire how much would the quality of medicine rise. Quite a bit I suspect. It is true, money corrupts all. Perhaps your idea is really the best one so far. I find this very interesting. No pay entertainment. How much would it improve over a 10 year period, if there was no profit in it? .... Fats
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Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
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:tu:

Good points, but a rebuttal.

First of all, for every signed artist out there, you have 10000 independants. Of these 10000 (more like 13000 now) independants, the ratio of good music to bad if equal, would mean 100's if not 1000's of independants that have really great material, many which sound good.

Now. Look at the ratio of members signed up on RO in it's 3 year history VS the members on RO that are active on Billboard as we speak. RO is one site with many forums dedicated to preserving the art of music in its' most organic and natural sense. Through the medium of recording and engineering, the artists true vibe is allowed to come through the speakers with tutoring, learning, lessons, archives...etc.

RO was established solely for musicians to advance their cause...be it any of the forums we have.

Now, here is the kicker:

When I worked for the majors exclusively, out of 200 projects, maybe 4 of them will actually get distribution and promotion.

The ones that did not make the cut to the holy grail of D/P had their CD's stored in warehouses not to be ever heard again and eventually written off by the labels for tax purposes and destroyed (further ruining the environment with plastic in our landfills).

I have seen a warehouse with MILLIONS of CD's that did not make the cut. As an industry pro, almost all of my hard effort never had a chance for D/P due to the very quantity of the work done and all of us got paid to ruin the environment as well. Their are hundreds of these warehouses...this is where record pool music comes from and then you have all the rejects. One day can make the difference between a hit and a flop...very few make the ultimate decision for very many..(sound familiar?)

So, even though you have a point, their is more music available now due to the internet that can be listened to.

Project studios are popping out albums per month and how many project studios are there?

Last rough estimate in the US alone is over 150,000 project studios...and we all know their are 10 times that many musicians that have a way to record...each of them wanting to make it BIG.

It is a crap shoot...but, with tools we have on RO, you can get closer to the best you can get without involving a 3 million dollar studio or $8000 a day coming out of your pocket for expenses.

So, this poor mastering, only helps to benefit OUR cause because we know how to do it right!

The trend should not be practiced by anyone interested in providing the best they can do. We at RO are just another ton of voices crying out to teach that this is not only wrong, but detrimental to the art.

We are team RO, we want you to do your best. Fuck the labels actually. They have lost it...loosing more day by day..they are doing it to themselves actually and blaming John Q public, napster and the internet...hey, they got to blame something, last place they will look is in the mirror. That is for certain. Too much Pride, greed, politics and eletism.

Too Much $$$$$$ for shit.

Human nature run amok.

Bill, I don´t think that this War levels should be blamed to unenxperienced guys or people that do not have a very deep background and "expertise".
If you examine carefully, the Mastering Mafia is who rules this shit.
See audioslave, the new Rush Album, Red Hor Chilly Peppers. Their stuff was not done with cheap plugins, PT stuff or by people who just masters friend´s basement tapes.
:(

Good article on the record biz in last Sunday's NY Times. Had a friend stop buy tonite, records all his CD's on to tape. Easier to handle while driving, better sound, right level...

Amen !!! brother bill ;)

Fats is correct. We must all be responsible for what our kids see & listen to. Pop culture should not dictate to us. It should be shaped by us.

What CDs we buy & what movies we attend are acts we have control over. The only language the big corperations understand is that of the dollar. Let's vote with our wallets.

My appologies in advance for sounding like somebody's parent.

Don,
Funny thing is I am guilty of sounding like someone’s parent too but I'm not. I don't have any kids. But I have a brain. To quote you from another post, "IMO this is a no brainier!"
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Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
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I don't know, I would like to believe in a recording utopia but I don't see it. I work on major label stuff and indie stuff. The ratio of crap to good is the same. In fact, the more project studios pop up, the ratio stays the same, it just sounds worse now because instead of recording on great equipment, they're recording on bad equipment and not even knowing it. I see it as the same world with less money.

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:

See audioslave, the new Rush Album, Red Hor Chilly Peppers. Their stuff was not done with cheap plugins, PT stuff or by people who just masters friend´s basement tapes.
:(

Well the Rush album we speak of (Vapor Trails) was mostly done by the band (mainly Geddy Lee) using a Mac with Logic Audio. It was mastered by a pro. I'm not a fan of Logic but do believe that pro results can be achieved with it. As I said in a previous post in this very same thread, the album sounds like poop.
So my question is who is responsible for this? Here you have a band that is veteran 3 times over that should know what sounds good and what doesn't. You gave a realitively new (to them) label. And you have a seasoned mastering facility (I wont mention the name). Who should I blame???
All I can say is that since the band left Mercury, the sound hasn't been there. Last week a Rush - Greatest Hits CD was realeased. It was "Digitally Remastered". I've heard that before! But the fact is, THIS RELEASE SOUNDS AWSOME!!! Now, I've brought this up before too. It was mastered by the one and only Bob Ludwig!
Who can I thank for this? The band? Mercury? or Ludwig????

First, thank Bob, he did not fuck it and could, then thank the archiving for providing Bob something to work with, then thank the mixing and mastering of previous engineers for showing the light, and finally, thank the band for all the talent and vibes that they have.

2112 still sounds killer in all forms as I have it, Cassette, CD, 8 track :D and finally, taped cassette from a Nakimichi Dragon to TDKSAX) from a virgin (see through a light bulb) vinyl. And lastly, the Vinyl itself.

Just a little bit of information: Bob Ludwig is a big Rush fan. I was his production engineer for 3 years (1988-91) and during that time I believe we did 2 or 3 Rush projects. I only did the vinyl cutting & 1630 CD master assembly & take NO credit for the EQ, but I do know Bob put lots of effort in these projects to get it right. As he always did.

Don, that's awsome to hear you worked with him. I'm sure it was a great learning experience and many wish they've had.
Bob did most of the albums, at least the good ones (sound wise). I was sorry to see them part ways. I'm pretty sure this coincided with the Mercury departure - maybe Atlantic forces another shop. It really is like night and day and if any newbie wants a good example of what a difference good mastering makes listen to these releases. The greatest hits was a realesed Mercury, I think the last of the contractual obligations. And Bob did wonders as usual!
Now I understand what you meant in a previous post of mine regarding Bob!

Hi guys

Today a band came to visit the studio, they came from far, 350 km. A metal band, they want to record an album CD soon.

They had brought some seven or eight CD's as a reference, because they think these CD's sound awesome.

So I put the first CD in the player and we listened. It sounded like a pile of dogshit, flat, no dynamics at all, no air, no width, no fore and background. In fact it sounds worse than many MP3's, but they fucking like it!

So the next step was to make it visible in Cool Edit Pro and I've never seen anything like it.
Almost zero dynamics, have you ever looked what's coming from a meat mincer? Something like that.

But they are the customers and they want a sound like that. This is kind of a dilemma isn't it?
I have a nice board, two inch machine, classic mics and I'm supposed to make a sound I can much easier make with an old portastudio.

I don't like it at all :(

I empathize. This is one of many reasons I decided to close the doors on my studio. I just got tired of being in the position of having to work with morons. I too had a 2” set up, MCI console, great mics. I had customers who insisted a mix wasn’t done until every hole in the patch field was filled. One guy said “That’s the good-u-lator, everything you put through it sounds better”, while pointing at a LA2. Now I liked my LA2 but to say something like that ??? My advice is unless the wolves are at the door, don’t take any job that you think is going to be joyless. The frustration is not worth the money. And if the wolves are at the door, stop and consider if it is really worth it. Is it any different that bolting wheels on a car at the local auto factory? Talk with these guys and feel out if they are receptive to you approach. If not send them out to look for someone who is more on their page. …. Fats
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Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
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When I start getting a headache after listening to the radio, MTV or commercially produced CDs that have a dynamic range of 3dB, I like to put on something by Nine Inch Nails. Trent almost treats the "everything all the time" trend as a joke.

He'll distort the crap out of something as if it's way to loud for the CD, tape, speakers or gear, then lay it in at about 50% in the mix. Then he'll let something rip that's perfectly clean and really fucking loud! It's not only an interesting use of dynamics, it's also layered with a healthy dose of psycho- acoustics.

Don't be discouraged. I don't think the "fad" of one- dimensional music will last long. Artists will eventually realize that making a recording that sounds good will set them apart from the ones who make recordings that are as loud as everybody else's