I think if you need 8+ channels, then that one is probably one of the best ways you could go for the money. If you *really* only need two channels, you should start looking at the Great River and pre's like that, for something you'll never regret or get rid of.

Originally posted by teddancin:
Yeah, now that you've all helped me so much to decide what Mic to buy, I realized that I really need a decent mic preamp to compliment the Soundelux U99 (I don't think I can wait for the Lawson for 3 months to get assembled). Any Idea's?

I only require three things from it.
1. As good sound quality as I can get from a mic in that price range.
2. At least 2 channels
3. Priced at around a grand.

I found an MTA iX one 16 channel mic pre for around a $1,000. I don't need that many inputs, but if it's the best thing for that price, I'd be happy to buy it. Any opinions on this?

Thanks again for all your help... RO ROX!

Looked at great river.... Cheapest thing I could find was their 2 channel mixer for $1,750. I'd really like to keep more around $1,000 because I'm breaking the bank with just about anything after I buy my interface and U99. I'll buy something that expensive as far as pre's go if it's really the best thing to do, but if there's another way to get great pre's, then I'd like to explore those options first. Thanks for the help though, that great river stuff sounds cool.

You might want to check out the Grace 101 or the basic John Hardy pre's.

If I got the John Hardy M2, would you suggest I get the 20db pad, or the 20ohm mic switch? Aren't they pretty much the same thing?

Also, what do you think about the Grace Design Luna Tec V2? And don't you NOT want transformers in mic pre's? I mean, you always look for transformerless mics, right? Just new to the preamp stuff and curious, thanks for the input.

WOW, I found a great river mp-2 for under $1,500. I was thinking of maybe buying it. Is the difference between the mp-2 and the mp-2mh really worth it? Thanks again for the help.

Earthworks LAB-102

Benjy

-Bear's Gone Fission
HAHA, sorry about my Naive'ness. I would say that you wouldn't guess how new to this I am, but obviously you just did. hehe.

I just looked at the Soundelux and Lawson mic, and it said "tube and transformer design", I don't know where I thought that I read tranformerless, cause I guess I didn't. And of course the U67 and U47's had transformers, cause that's what the lawson and soundelux emulate. Jesus, sorry bout that. I'm just a guitar/computer guy that's trying to get into pro recording stuff.

So you like the john hardy stuff huh? How does it compare to Avalon or Great River pre's? Thanks for the laugh and the help.

If I were you, I would be looking at second hand pre's.

_____________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
[url=(deadlink)[/url]

oh yeah? any suggestions?

Take a look at the 4 channel Sytek...You can find them used for about 800$.Its kinda tough at the 1k price point,most of the "pro pieces" are 1.5k and up.I've been real happy with my Sytek(I choose it over Great River NV for some vocals) and for the price it's unbeatable and probably something you would keep for the long haul.

Yeah,

As I've been looking around at pre's more and more, I've noticed that I'm going to need to spend more $$$ on them. My new budget for them has gone up. I want to now keep it around the $1,500 range, give or take a couple hundred. I looked at the sytek, and noticed they have 3 models (MPX-4A, EQ4X-M1, MPX-4D).

The firt (cheapest) one MPX4A looks like the one I'd probably get. The EQ4X-M1 is only a one channel mic pre, but it has EQ also. Probably won't get that one because it only has one mic pre in it, and I need at least 2. The MPX-4D looks to be the same as the MPX-4A, but with a digital interface. Is it really worth the extra bucks for the digital interface? Do you know of any online store where I can buy these for a decent price? Thanks again for all the help.

Originally posted by Benjy King:
Earthworks LAB-102

Benjy

What he said...

Recently I bought a pair of Brent Averil 1272's with the power supply for $950.00. They sound great on most everything. Maybe buy used.

I'd get the 4 channel Sytek MPXii (or whatever model # it is)with the 2 standard and 2 burr-brown channels.Check out Ebay I saw one there a few days ago....I don't know about the digital units.

Why buy a mic pre with a digital interface? The only thing that could possibly happen is that the interface will become obsolete.

I am not really perspecous so bear with me.

The sytek has a very "unique" sound.

It has what I would call a tapey sound, but in a very simulated sort of way.

it adds a sort of gargle to all the mics I have tried on it. As if it add some low level graininess that should sound great but again in a simulated way.

Anyhow, if you want to hear it, I used it on the vocals in the song

" I'm begging please" @
http://www.creamwar… 6ultra/default.asp

Originally posted by Linwood:
Recently I bought a pair of Brent Averil 1272's with the power supply for $950.00. They sound great on most everything. Maybe buy used.

He meant $1,950.

I'm very happy with my BA 1272 (pair). But I am shopping around for at least one more so I can track drums and have something a little different.

The new Great River looks interesting. Should I look for something a little more different than the 1272 or would the Great River be a smart move because it is similar to the 1272?

No, I bought them used for $950.00.

You might also consider 2 of the Trident MTA Signature One units. Each is a single channel mic pre with fully parametric EQ and hi/lo pass filters. Joemeek.com is selling this discontinued model for a mere $550 per unit until they're gone. The preamp is superior to the lower end J. Meek stuff and the EQ is very warm and "musical".

Thanks for all your help. I think that I've decided on the Great River MP-2MH for my first high-end preamp. I think I'll go for a colored pre for my second one, maybe some type of neve, or emulation of one. Thanks again for all the input, it was much appreciated.

I am looking for a mic pre pair "with a little color". I have heard some great things about the Earthworks stuff, but have also heard that they are very transparent, and the Mercenary site also mentions that in their description.

[url=(dead link removed)

Fats keeps talking about the Dan Alexander mic pres...

http://www.danalexanderaudio.com

I almost bought a pair of used API 512s, but lost them at the last minute.

I am looking to add a little personality(!), my Presonus pres (class A) are fairly clean and transparent, so I am covered there.

Any comments on the above pres with regard to flavor...

DH,
I am sorry to hear you lost those API's. I was afraid that was going to happen. Check out those Pres from Dan Alexander. Those are new "clones" of 10 series Neves NOT the 1272 line amps, with original Neve transformers on the inputs and outputs. At $1150 a pair these are a steal. I would act fast, something tells me as these catch on and demand outstrips supply, Dan will be raising the price on these puppies! ......... Fats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone know anything about the SCA Neve clones? 2 channel kits go for $799. The assembled version is $999, expandable to 8 channels. The PS looks pretty beefy. Here's the link:

Seventh Circle

i like using the drawmer 1960 pre-amp compressor
it has two chanals of pre-amps and compressors (soft knee with no ratio)
and an istrument input with tone control and brightness switch. you can find some used units in good shape. this unit is colored (thats what i feel) but i like its color -its warm.
its good on vocals and you can use it to warm up instruments .

or you can buy a used focusrite green series (there are a few models )
this is a very "open" sound and bright.
i use them both.
and they are not expensive-espacialy the used ones.
good luck
cheers-maor appelbaum

I checked the link and these are 1272 clones. Not the real deal, don’t have as much gain as 10 series Neves do. The 1272 is a line summing amp from Neve consoles and was also used to drive headphone outs. I have used 1272’s before and they don’t provide the color that a real vintage 10 series pre does. If your interested in a reissue of the 10 series Neve pres, Dan Alexander is doing them in a pair for $1150. These are exact clones using new electronic parts and original used transformers from Neve consoles for the inputs and outputs. The link for Dan is http://www.danalexanderaudio.com .

I love Drawmer gates but I don’t care much for their compressor and pre amps. I had a 1960. I thought the pres and the DI were very noisy. In addition the compressor imparted a very squished sound when used even lightly. The rappers loved it. I took it back where I purchased it and traded up to a Manley El Op. Best thing I ever did. Fats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the info Fats. I think I'll go wash the cat now.

Peace

I think if you read the web sites carefully, you'll see that the N72 is as much the "real deal" as the DA preamp, especially when it comes to faithfulness to the original circuitry and the amount of gain available. Despite the implications, it appears that the the DA circuit has only two gain stages, like a 1272, and not 3 gain stages, like a 1066, 1073, etc. If it did, it would be capable of 80 dB of gain, not 50.

-Tim

Tim,
I took a look at Dan Alexander’s site and what you are saying seems accurate. I am as questioning about this as you so I have decided to ask Dan Alexander about this. I sent him the following E Mail;

Dan,
I am a moderator at Recording. org and we are having a discussion about your Neve Clone pre amp on line. Here is a link to the thread
(Dead Link Removed)
cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001129;p=2#000029
I have been recommending your preamp to readers instead of 1272 clones manufactured by Averill, SCA and others. One of the points I have been making is that your pres are clones of the 1073, 1064 and 1066 series pres rather that 1272 which are line amps and don't ,in my opinion, offer as much color. A comment has been made that your pres are only a 2 stage rather than a 3 stage amp that was used in the original Neve desks. They are referring to your stated gain of 50 dB. Do you have any comments on this?
Thanks Kurt Foster ... KFRS aka; Cedar Flat Fats.

So all I can say is wait until Dan has a chance to reply. Thanks for pointing that out. I am as interested in finding the truth of the matter as you seem to be. Fats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

hi- here's the deal, so to speak.....in a 1073 or whatever class a neve module you choose, neve adds a second amp card when you go Over 50 db of gain .Some of the preamp packages (brents for example) go ahead and crank the level out of a single amp card, which produces distortion and frequency anomalies that neve didnt find acceptable. Thats why we only go up to 50 on our preamp. besides, most guys are recording reasonably loud signal sources. if you work for sprint, and need to record pins dropping, you may want to consider a gml....ive had to customize one package for one guy who demanded 60 db ...
as far as 1272 vs 1073 or whatever..properly done, it's a non controversy. In a 1272, you find a 10468 input tranny, a 183 card and an lo1166 output tranny. brent fills the second half of the card,and rewires the whole thing so that he has created an emulation of a 1073/1066 style of preamp. assuming its done correctly, there really isnt any difference. a 1272 isnt a preamp, but rewired correctly it is exactly like a 1073, except for the aforementioned gain issue over 50 db..brent is the only guy i know who actually uses 1272's as a source of the right parts. but as we say here at da audio "parts is parts"...rupert was asked how he felt about people making pres out of his old modules as compared to the original input modules...he replied "well why not?. its all the same stuff in there..." as far as it goes, brents package, and a real 1073 /1084,etc has one thing to offer that my package doesnt...an extra 3/4's of one db at 40,000hz..(and an extra $650. on the price tag)...(dont get me wrong , i love brent and his crew and have done huge amounts of biz with him and i recommend his work highly...and he's cute too)....if any of you can hear that difference, i have a job application waiting...please check out the neve info and the preamp rap sheet at http://www.danalexanderaudio.com and while you are there, peruse the extensive files of original manufacturers broshures and product information sheets...lots of other neat pictures and entertaining stories...anyone who has other questions can feel free to call me at 510 5271411 or email me. dan alexander

Thanks Dan and welcome to recording.org! You might want to check out another forum under this site called tech talk. Were always talikng about Neve and other goodies. Just click on the "Forum Home " button at the top right of the page to get to the index. See ya,
Chris Jenrick

Thank You Dan. I have learned something this evening. I have used the 1272 pres before and I just wasn't impressed with them. I thought they were relatively colorless. Perhaps I wasn't pushing them hard enough. I am going to have to reevaluate this opinion.

I know that Dan has a stellar reputation and is very well known in the business. I met him once at a NARAS show in SF. He was showing a Beatle console and I was immediately attracted to his booth. There is a review on Dans pre amp in the January "Pro Audio Review" on page 46. I guess the main advantage of the Dan Alexander preamp is the use of the original Neve transformers. Tim, does your SCA pre have these also? Now that Dan has registered at RO, I hope he will continue to participate here. It would be a welcome addition. ...... Fats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's my understanding that the "original" Neve transformers were made by two separate companies, Marinair and St. Ives. Marinair wound the 10468 and 31267 input transformers, and St. Ives wound the LO1166 output transformer. Neither of these companies still exist as independent entities, and have been subsumed by Carnhill Transformers, Ltd., who continue to make both of these parts according to the original recipes and who continue to supply them to Amek, Vintech, Brent Averill, myself, and others. The transformers in the N72 have never done time in anything with a Neve label, but they test, measure, and sound the same as those that did.

Not to pick on the DA preamp, as I'm sure it's a fine product, but I don't see any claims at his site that guarantee the use of "vintage" transformers, despite their appearance in the internal photos, and if it in fact makes a difference to anyone. I know that DA has access to a lot of old parts, but there were only so many consoles made, after all, and designing a new product around an obsolete and unobtainable part doesn't make a lot of business sense.

-Tim

Tim,
That statement came from the previously sited review in Jan. 2003's Pro Audio Market Review by Dr. Fred Bashour.

(Dan Alexander) uses input and output transformers from original Neve modules, but builds new amplifiers-whose circuitry is schematically equivalent to the original.

I heard that you used to work for Dan. I am surprised you didn't know this. Fats
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. …………………….. Pick one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I have had the pleasure of doing some contract work for Dan. I've also worked for IBM, Compaq, Digidesign, and Universal Audio, among others. What's your point, exactly? I'm simply making the observation that you're making claims for the DA preamp that aren't even being made by Dan himself. Like I said, I know that DA has access to lots of old parts, but that doesn't mean there's an endless supply of them, nor does it mean that all DA preamps will necessarily have "vintage" transformers, now and forever, irrespective of what a reviewer's sample may have contained.

Let me be clear: I'm not saying that the DA preamps don't all have vintage transformers. Nor am I trying to imply that they're any more or less of a preamp because of the age of the transformers they contain. I'm just pointing out the lack of any claim one way or another at the web site.

-Tim

Hey teddancin,
Remember there is a big difference between the SD U99 and the Lawson L47 or SD E47. You are talking about a very different sound. The 47's are much fatter sounding and the U99 is very airy.

Tim,
I recived an email this afternoon from Dan Alexander in response to your question regarding a limited supply of original Neve input and output transformers.

Kurt,
We use trannys taken from old neve modules. We have at times used new output trannys from the original manufacturer, which are identical to the same ones they have been making for 40 years ... but at this time we have several hundred old trannys so im not gonna worry about it. My pre has proven to be a hi quality, reliable product and I have 500 happy customers to prove it.
....thanks !!! dan alexander

:D

CFF... sorry for jumping in a little bit off-topic (clones or not).

Summit makes some very good gear. It's a quality company run and staffed by people who know what they are doing and actually drive cars to work rather than riding a bicycle or riding a water buffalo. I am myself interested in the new compact mic pre they have released. Great gear, that Summit stuff! .... Fats

Have you tried that mic pre yet?
If so, was it a good budget alternative?

Tore,
I haven't used the budget Summit stuff. I have used the higher end pieces they make in studios I have worked in. I am making an assumption that the lower priced pieces are a good product based on my experiences in using the high end stuff. I still think it is a quality company and I know they are based in Scott’s Valley in CA.... Fats
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tannoy, Dynaudio, Blue Sky, JBL, Earthworks, Westlake, NS 10's :D , Genelec, Hafler, KRK, and PMC
Those are good. ……………………. Pick one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really appreciate all the kind words. To set the record straight...Tim Ryan came to work for me as a technical contractor, fixing broken gear. after a few months he told me he " was gonna make a few preamps for his own use" . Before he came to work for me, he had never built a Neve clone preamp or any other preamp that im aware of...As soon as his "design" was completed, he quit showing up and opened for buisness...You draw your own conclusions....