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anonymous 14 November 2001

A friend of mine was offered a 4 year old Manley Dual Mono Block Mic Pre with low hours in pristine condition.

What is a fair price for that unit?

Curious Jeff

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lianna Fri, 11/16/2001 - 07:03

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Punchmo:
[QB]curious jeff,

I paid $1,200 for a dual mono manley pre w/ serial # 0001 about 4 years ago. I'll geuss that a used manley today might be in the $1,200 to $1,500 range depending on the condition.

Jeff,
If you Really have a serial # less than 10 and ever want to sell it ring me PLEASe!!!!!!!
Only the dual model.
It should have some other stamped name on it along with manley on the front.

Dan Spitz
Producer/mixer

Punchmo Fri, 11/16/2001 - 19:52

Dan,

The Dual Pre Manley I have says "Vacuum Tube Logic of America" on the faceplate and...has phantom power. It has a serial number under ten. When I bought it used, I called Manley and talked to Hutch. He sent me all the schematics they had. One had some hand written notes to help with this relic.

Been loving it lately tracking rock guitars :)

Steve

sjoko Sun, 11/18/2001 - 00:41

I have wondered, and will likely always wonder, why anyone in their right mind, with ears, occupied in the audio industry, making a living at doing anything useful in sound, can say: "I really like / want this Manley".
Hearing tests and psychological examinations should be mandatory for such people!!

Everything Manley I have ever heard or tried has sounded like crap to me.

Guest Sun, 11/18/2001 - 08:17

Originally posted by Jeff Roberts:
A friend of mine was offered a 4 year old Manley Dual Mono Block Mic Pre with low hours in pristine condition.

What is a fair price for that unit?

Considering that you can get a dual 60db mic pre brand spankin' new for $1,450 (move fast if you want one...Manley is about to have a pretty substantial price increase...they haven't raised prices in 10 years, they're do), I'd say the unit is probably worth a grand, maybe $1,100.

Best of luck with what ever you decide to get.

anonymous Sun, 11/18/2001 - 13:45

Originally posted by miketholen:
AMEN!!!!!!!
I've had to keep my mouth shut!!!!
for fear of having to try to explain to the thousands of idiots that bought that crap.
plus Eve Anna doesn't like it when I talk about her "gear". :w:
Yeah, well I don't like it when you talk about
Manley stuff either.I'm gonna talk about this here later

anonymous Sun, 11/18/2001 - 14:57

Originally posted by miketholen:
yes indeed, please vent Mr. Stedel. :w:
Hi Mike.From the Oxford Pocket Dictionary.(selected definitions that may be applicable here).
""vent" anus esp. of lower animal;
also (give~to one's anger & c.,let it have free expression.
Split in garment now esp. in back of coat."

Well none of these apply to what I want to do.
the only one I thought relevent was:
"Small outlet or in let for air, smoke, &c.;"

So I shall reply whilst "intaking" my mid morning "air, smoke, &c.;" tommorow morning.Remember that's Australian time for me.If you'd care to join me over a cup of coffee here, be good to see you.
regards

anonymous Mon, 11/19/2001 - 21:59

Hey Mike. I'm gonna have to take a rain check. Literally! We've had BIG storms over here. The area where my parents live has been declared a National
Disaster. I was talking to them on the phone last night, when their power went off and we lost contact.They're pretty old so me and my brother are
trying to find out if they're OK. I'm sure they are - they've put up with long winded arguments from me for years.In the meantime, truly sorry. Enjoy the THC with TLC!.Next one's on me. I'll try and post tomorrow.Kind regards

anonymous Tue, 11/20/2001 - 13:04

Hi folks. I make no apology for the length of this reply. I'm having a coffee here with Mike Thornhill. Mike's bringing a joint.I don't like the way Mike talks about Manley gear. Mike says "oh yeah?" or something similar. I like taking a break this time of the day (it's 9.00 AM here), if I have good company, good conversation it's a bonus. If you're not interested, skip it. Easy.
So, g'day Mike. How ya doin'? Take the load off your feet. Thanks for the concern about my parents. They're OK, just a bit shaken. The East coast here got hit by a Tornado. Where they live got hit real hard. Houses were totally destroyed. You ever been to Australia Mike? It's like a good reverb. You know, "gorgeous","stunning" - all the words people can't find in equip. spec. sheets. I would also add
"wild", "vast", even "dreamlike". Whatever. You realize whatever happens, you're gonna leave this meeting with a bigger grin than I am. there's a noticable difference between THC and caffeine Mike, well at least I've noticed one. Go ahead, light - up. people up here are cool......aren't they?

The first time you and I came across each other, you were out there doing your stuff, then I showed up. We traded a few words, and I got down to business with you over coffee. I prefer doing business over coffee. People forget caffeine is a drug. It's never a good thing to forget you're on drugs I think, if you take them Mike. You know what I hate? I hate people who have a good smoke, and sit there in front of you, and pretend they're still the same. It pisses me off. What a waste of smoke, what a waste of money, and what a waste of credibility.Do you know people like that? Why do they do it? I mean, what's the point of talking to people like that? - "Yeah man, I just smoked $60 worth of yhandi with my friend, and we're just the same. Hasn't changed a thing." I will never watch Star Trek with these people. They would start giggling and make fun of Jean-Luc, or Data.
And then me. "You watch this shit man?"
They'd say. "It's stupid man."
So how's it going there Mike? You got time to stay a little while? man I hate having to rush after a good inhale of the earth's bounty. Myself, I like anything that helps people connect with the nice, sensual things of life at this time. I like connecting with things in this way. It's mostly business this time of a day for me. Like today. Like now. but it's cool. I like doing business - a lot. I enjoy it. I wouldn't call it an easy business - it's not that sort of business. But it's sound.

BTW a friend of mine with a studio over here needs some new equipment. He's selling stuff he's had for years. he needs the money. He's got a couple of old Telefunken mics. They're high impedence ones that plug straight into a guitar amp. he reckons The Beatles "used" to use 'em. I'm really into old gear too, even pieces like the mics my friend has. Although I mean, you talk about Manley's gear being "crap", but how "crap" must this have sounded? these things were built to run a vocalist through guitar amps! there must be more than two. And unless "the real pro's" are lying, and using these things and not telling us, they don't seem to be up there on the "Best Studio Mic Ever" page.

I owned some Telefunken stuff in the sixties myself. It was a record player. yeah, they diversified early on. All those old companies did.
That's why you're so right in what you say. You're right about some of those old guys in the early days of sound. It's an amazing and totally intriguing history. Who were these guys?

IMHO I'd add a couple of people also in the 1950's and 60's. People like Leo Fender and Les Paul. Leo for Fender guitars, and Les for Les Paul guitars and stereo sound. And people like George Martin, who together with The Beatles, showed people what could be done with all this recording and broadcast gear, electric guitars, etc., when you take it seriously.
In the States you had people like that. Like Norman Whitfield for instance. That's when we started to really hear about "a sound". people would be trying to get "that British sound". Which evolved from the Brits wanting "that American sound" - both Black and White American sounds. The British sound went back to America, which went back to Britain, then Europe, eventually, even Australia. And now the sounds go down so very damn low, like how low can you go with the bottom end man?
So, we're talking about some VERY cool gear here. Some of it's still around, and I'm lucky to have some. I'm with you 100% on your assessment of the build and sound of some of this stuff. The good stuff, that is, from that period. We're fortunate that it's still around. And that people can still use it. Especially people like you and me. people who love it, recognise it's qualities, and use it as a central core - around which we build, define, recognise and challenge all new comers.
So Mike, still got a few minutes? Time to enjoy that smoke a little while longer? Did you know Mike, coffee used to be banned?

When you called me "Mr. Stedel" I thought it a bit odd. I did a search on posts I bought into not long after i joined Digi's pro tools Forum. I used to visit George massenburg's forum. I also used to go to Ed's forum - but I think I might have offended him. I brought out a Vol2 of a great post he'd put up, without asking or telling him I was going to do this. Maybe he thought who's this joker. His went platinum. Mine had a couple of hits, briefly stayed where it was, and then sank. Shame.

So miketholen is MISTER MIKE THOLEN. Right! Cool. How funny we meet again over coffee. Thank God it's not instant!I re-read what you said about me and what i said about you (heh heh!). And I thought to myself: Mike Thornton could be either nice and cruisy, or drug fk'd paranoid for all I know. If you were the second, you'd say something like,
"**** man, I can't spend this amount of time listening to your trashy, designer-wear, glossed out, airbrushed whine about some OVERHYPED cheap component piece of CRAP that wouldn't even shine no matter how much you spat at it", and the leave.
But if you were nice and cruisy you'd stay, enjoy your smoke, listen, make your reply, and maybe arrange to do it again.

BTW I agree with Fletcher about how lucky you are to have your Telefunken Tech head. I hope you've arranged for cryogenic archiving and storage for this person. Maybe some day people will feel the
same way about the folk at Manley. maybe some already do. (You can stop coughing now).
I note that you had some of Manley's stuff for a while, the vari-mu and the Voxbox. I wonder, did you buy these units, hire them, or borrow them? I'd be interested to know before I make further comment about Manley's gear here. What I will say, and forgive me if I state the "BO" (that is, "Bleedingly Obvious") is that I would be cautious about criticising product for the economic "cheapness" of some individual components used and equating this with "cheapness" of quality in effectiveness. power and efficiency. This is not confined to music and sound industry product.

It's debateable (?) that there have been great leaps in the sound quality of many products built after the "Golden Age" that's true. But there have been many industrial and technological improvements in the manufacturing and production of components etc. One obvious result is that much stuff is not only more powerful, smaller (except Manley's! Keep it that way folks!) and "feature packed", but it's also more available. More stuff can be built and sold, more people can buy it. It my case it means I can buy expensive, complex equipment before I know how to use it. The first Apple computer I bought is a good example. I was an analog baby. It took me a while before I fully understood what I wanted out of the Mac. I used them at work for five years, and then bought one for myself. It was a lemon. And of course after the warrentee period expired, so did the computer. My machine blew two motherboards and killed it's own memory. Apple's tech's here said this was "unheard" of. A couple of thousand dollars later, some very unhappy clients, and a VERY unhappy Stedel got it to work. It cost me half the price of the original cost of the thing to fix something that was not my fault, but a fault of the computer. A week later Apple brought out a new range. New features, twice as powerful, sexier design, and cheaper. The bastards! I still use Apple. So far no other Mac I used has had the problems mine did. The answer I figured, lay in quality control, components etc. for this individual unit, and probably to do with some aspect of the planet Saturn in my astrological chart!!!!!
BTW, take a look inside some of the early Jim Marshall guitar amps. Great sound, great product, but a great layout? The first time I looked, I thought what? I paid how much for this thing? But it rocked - literally.It's great for techs to look inside, but sometimes when you look inside a nice exterior, all you see is Yuk! That's one reason why I never became a doctor.

Anyway, last time we exchanged pleasantries it went for one reply. Let's agree to three at least yes? If Jeff gets pissed off we can do it somewhere else. (I've got a cantina at Stedel Bounces Back for instance). Is that OK with you? Me I like talking when I'm like this. Lets talk more about
Telefunken, 2 x Manley products of my choice, and anything else you think is relevant. Hope to see ya.Same place, same topic, same drugs.Take care
regards

anonymous Thu, 11/22/2001 - 14:11

Originally posted by littledog:
Gird your loins! :roll:
Er littledog, me and Mike are having a talk about
Manley gear. I'm also interested in hearing
a bit more from Mike about the Telefunken stuff.
Sounds like good stuff. Is there a "loins" control
on Telefunken pre-amps? What does it do? Is it related to issues of equipment being said to have "balls"? I never use this sort of terminology myself to describe sound or gear. BTW have you checked out Kylie Minogue yet? How are you going with that one? Like to use your Manley gear on her?
See? That's why I don't use this sort of descriptive language.But maybe that's what I'm missing.

Mike, is there a loins control that Telefunken uses
that other gear is missing? Is this why it has the quality you call "balls"? Has littledog got something here?

I'm gonna order another coffee and have a smoke.
Meanwhile there's something I've got to ask another postee. Where are you by the way? You stuck in traffic?

anonymous Fri, 11/23/2001 - 00:49

Hey Mike.Glad you could make it. But I gotta go
right now. Heading off till Tuesday. I'll call in here for a coffee with some info on those mics. Good you can take some time to talk. It's all business, but it's good to do it over a coffee and smoke, y'know now and again. Chew the fat - or weed - as they say.
Surfing? Well maybe one day I'll get some photo's to you of where I live.Pretty amazing place.
BTW - I visited http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com - Hmm. I liked that section called TAB Custom Consoles. If you can join me here next week, we could talk about it maybe.
Cool.And the Manley Passive.(http:// ) One final thing.
On a medicinal note,I heard some VERY interesting info re what you were smoking there.It's all good.Take care.
Kind regards

anonymous Tue, 11/27/2001 - 12:46

Hi folks. Me and Mike are meeting back here for coffee again. Mike's bringing a joint.
If you're not interested in this, you know the deal. If you are, sit down for a while. We're talking about Manley and Telefunken. Oh, and Surfing. Which both Mike and I are interested in. So we've got a common ground. Only it's on water.

People may go "What?" at the length of this, but sometimes it's maybe a good idea to go into depth now and again up here. If you saw the mess that occurred on Digi's Pro Tools site with Felix's thread about setting levels,and how much confusion and bad sound must have been produced by people either
not knowing or discounting basic technique, vague information put out by manufacturers,
and people wondering why after spending all this money it still sounded ****ed - well me I'll have coffee occassionally and concentrate on detail.

But first, BTW, that funkenwerk site you sent me to. Don't they know any good photographers? Give them Eve Anna's number. She knows how important this sort of stuff is. Maybe Julian can get her to...nah forget it. But give them her number. Like fast Mike! Maybe she can have a talk to them.

How can I put it?
Good solid dependable mid range level web site, informative. But no high end "sparkle". To put it in a language you'd recognise... it's got no balls Mike. Shame. For a company to incorporate "funk" in its name 40 years before George Clinton is visionary. And can't be all bad.

The basic law of advertising, promotions, and a successful business like Manley, is to make sure they have a great front end. A good front end can only occur, be brought into existence, if it has something behind it equally as good. In fact better. This is called design symbiosis.
It's true, there is certainly hyperbole in Manley's product speak. But take time one day to read it. They admit it's expensive to buy. They tell you it's difficult to get used to, different from other systems you may be using. They deliberately do things they know might **** you up, then tell you about why they did it. Then move on.
Now would you buy a car from people like this?
Why would you do that? Especially brand new. Must have a pretty good warrantee there.
I know you owned a VoxBox, for a while, and hated it. But it's not as though Manley don't try to warn you. This isn't some reliable mid-range car that'll get you there from A to B - but will hardly give you the best handling or ride you can possibly have.
It's also not a Hummer army/or civilian personnel carrier, designed to get you through anything, even if it's by the seat of your pants.

BTW not all reviews of Manley are uncritical. Although praising the Voxbox, William Whitman in Recording Magazine October 1998 says the following -"Manley suggest that the Slow/Slow settings were picked to emulate a "good engineer riding a fader." To me it seemed more like an engineer who fell asleep at the controls. I'd probably fire that engineer!? " not exactly subtle for a Sound Reviewer Mike.

MANLEY'S print ad for the Voxbox, in it's opening line says:"It looks awesome, but what is it?" Now,maybe you're used to this word "awesome" in another setting, maybe "Awesome surf man! Let's go!" But it means, "dread" . And "terrible".
Non surfing and non skating professionals like me,who use the word in it's more traditional usage, may see something intriguing. The manufacturer of the 1998 TEC winning product of the year, advertising the same product as being terrible.
No I thought, it looks great. In fact better than great. It's a clear elegant design, well laid out,easy to find each control function, and its visual appeal is striking. The area around the full size illuminated VU meter, apart from being visually stunning,, in classic design terms, is brilliant, (but I like Art Deco, the Chrysler building, and Jaguar cars). It allows you to focus right at the start on one of the most important things in all this stuff we do - the incoming signal.

BTW your friends over at TAB-funkenwerk are not afraid of using a bit of hyperbole now and again e.g.
"Like the V72a the V72b could easily take the high output level of the V76 (God, what the heck do all these numbers mean BTW?) with way more head room. Converted to the V77b, it is "THE GREATEST MASTERING TUBE AMP OF ALL TIMES" (my emphasis).

Now I know how you feel about reviews. But one review of the Massive is done by a Dr Fredrick J, Bashour, in the October 1999 issue of Pro Audio review. The good doctor, right from the start declares "I love this box." Fine, that's his opinion. He then says "The Massive Passive is an equalizer unlike any other, either in concept, circuitry or execution."
So - different. Quirky. Idiosyncratic. Spelled out clearly. In their own publicity, Manley
don't urge you to buy it. They say "You have to hear this gear. You have to use this gear.", or "You'll need to experience this." and "Being different also gives it some quirks and idiosyncracies...". On page three of their manual (which you can download for free)
they advise you to take time and read it before "you jump to conclusions or confusions."
as "...this is an unusual animal and hints of how you may find different settings than you are used to (are) the key to getting the most out of this box." There are many more examples in their literature, and I could go on, but basically I think your comments reflect more your own lack of caution here. There could have been
many reasons why your experience was not a good one, but as I said, it's not as though they don't warn you. In fact more than any company I can think of, Manley says be careful. Check it out. We're different. One of the reasons I will probably buy a Massive Passive next year is precisely because of this. I've said elsewhere up here that I love the whole idea of the Massive... you erm...slammed me at the time. It looks like something out of an art-deco version of Dr Frankenstein's lab, and reminds me just how strange, weird, and wonderful valve technology is. It's bizarre in a classic 20th Century way. Manley's self conscious stance at being different is, well pure rock'n'roll attitude. Take a ride. Head out on the highway. I love that sort of attitude. And seriously, there are people who bought it and love it. Equipment at this level is never crap. It's either not suited to what you want, or maybe too different to get to grips with when you're worrying about overheads, or maybe working with a particular genre of music and musicians who's sound may not be suited to it. Otherwise, we'd all buy the same gear, all have the same sound. "Geez man how do you get that Big Mac Sound?" "Why it's easy. I just bought me a Big Mac."

BTW, no I don't understand what you were getting at with the cheapness of some components used by Manley. What did you mean?

I think much of the hype about Manley is because they build solid dependable, well designed stuff. But some of their stuff is "out there". It's not for everybody. I think that deserves some recognition. You tried it, it didn't work for you. From what you say it sounds like a very pressured situation to have invested in their gear at that stage, for your purposes. Maybe it won't work for me. But I'll find out at a basic level first before I commit.

Seriously Mike, the way you comment on Manley - which sounds like it was your own fault - takes away from what you say about Telefunken. If you said more about what Telefunken had that you thought Manley was missing - and I don't mean "balls" ? I mean soundwise, not metaphorical rant, people would get a much better idea of difference and take a closer look. Rather than criticising Eve Anna for being a brilliant designer (and as for her comment that it took her 20 minutes to design the face of the Voxbox, well that's the amount of time it took Shirley Bassey to record "Goldfinger" - in one take! That's what brilliance is sometimes about!) maybe you could give those TAB Funkenwek guys a hand, it's hard to tell how their stuff is laid out in their promotional stuff. Visual and physical ergonomics/infomatics are blended really well in Manley's stuff, and THAT is good design, not a hyped up glossy centerfold con.

Telefunken were an interesting corporation. Very different to Manley. Amazing out-scourcing process they used. (Siemens for instance -now there's a company with an "interesting" history). Perhaps more people should be aware of the name of people like Professor Nestler, Telefunken?s Head of R & D at their ELA Lab in relation to "Golden Age of Sound" gear.

miketholen Wed, 11/28/2001 - 06:21

jeez dudde where do you get your time? are you retired?
or are you at your day "gig"?
do you design websites? maybe you can help TAB-Funkenwerk with thier site. I know it, sucks big time, but they are VERY BUSY, they have something llike 30 V&@s packages and 20 Master Kompressor packages on backorder (meaning, people have paid for these units before they are even built.).
all the while working on my old shit.
while the internet is a big part of thier business they have to prioritze thier focus right now. It is very hard to find kick-ass help these days and the regimine at TAB-Funkenwerk is too intense for most kids theses days, So they are an extremly small company that needs to full fill a shitload of orders.
I'm quite busy at the moment so I'll post more later, but now I need to go show the assistant how to set up a Decca tree.
I'm late for my session so I have to go.
MIke :w:

miketholen Thu, 11/29/2001 - 14:40

BTW your friends over at TAB-funkenwerk are not afraid of using a bit of hyperbole now and again e.g.
"Like the V72a the V72b could easily take the high output level of the V76 (God, what the heck do all these numbers mean BTW?) with way more head room. Converted to the V77b, it is "THE GREATEST MASTERING TUBE AMP OF ALL TES" (my emphasis).
well...Have you found a better one?
be back soon

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