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anonymous 29 October 2003

I've been reading a lot about the Sebatron lately and the JLM TMP8. Price per channel-wise, the JLM is on par with the RNP, which supposedly is considered low-end "pro" gear.

I recently read that Kurt felt the RNP wasn't in the same league as the JLM or Seb by comparison when someone referenced the RNP in the same sentence, and was curious what he meant by that. I understand they might be different sounding in character, but is there that big a difference in quality?

I'm asking because even though the results with my current gear is improving, I am looking to step up to some "real" pres. I would LOVE to grab a JLM for the bang for buck and versatility, but just shy of $2K is stretching the wallet right about now. I figure for $500 an RNP would be nice for Overheads and overdubs at least. Guess I'm asking if the RNP is in the same league for what it is, or should I just save up and grab a JLM next spring?

Currently I'm using my A&H Mizwizard and a few Mackie VLZ-PRO type mixers as my front end to my Digital Recorder or DAW (Depending where I am).

Thanks,

-Wes

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Comments

anonymous Thu, 01/15/2004 - 21:58

Ok, I'm going to now, finally, decisively answer the question which started this thread:
Q: So How Does the RNP Stack Up?

A: About twelve units high, then the stack starts to tip over.

;) :p

BTW "party line"? I consistently state that I like/own/use the RNP and last time I checked I was a moderator.
David

KurtFoster Sat, 01/17/2004 - 22:12

I gotta tell the truth. I just recorded a comparison of the RNP against the Millennia Origin STT-1 in the solid state mode, no transformer in the input path (HV-3 mode, not my favorite configuration of the STT-1), using an older matched pair of AKG 451’s and I was impressed with how well the RNP compared. I actually like the RNP better than the Millennia with these mics. The 451’s need a lot of gain so I had to crank the RNP almost all the way up and there was no hint of added noise. I won’t say just now what I heard that I liked better as not to give it away but I have posted the audio snips and placed the link in this thread so you all can guess which is which. I posted the answers in the bin before I posted the mp3 link and after everyone has guessed which is which, I will move the answer into this forum.. That is the fairest thing I can think of. This is one pass with a pair of matched AKG 451's placed as close together as possible on acoustic guitar. There are 3 pairs of snips, 1/2 - 3/4 - 5/6, all jumbled up. Pick one of each pairs as best. Let see what your ears say.[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.nowherer…"] RNP / Millennia[/]="http://www.nowherer…"] RNP / Millennia[/]

[ January 18, 2004, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Kurt Foster ]

realdynamix Sun, 01/18/2004 - 12:11

:) Ok Kurt, for what it's worth. I picked tracks 1, 3, & 5 as the most appealing to me. I like the rich bottom, fat sound, and proportional high end. 2, 4 & 6, seemed to have a lack of bottom detail, a scoop in the mids, and exaggerated high end. 2, 4 & 6, just seemed thin to me.

Thanks for playing, recording, compiling and presenting this demonstration.

--Rick

anonymous Sun, 01/18/2004 - 15:48

OK, I took the challenge, I listened to the original RNP demo cuts 4 times over making notes, I did not know which one was which at the time. Results in decreasing order of preference:
#7 RNP - by far the best, natural & musical
#8 MP2NV - similar to #7, only a little more compressed sounding
#4 AMEK - warm, clean, colored in a nice way
#6 Sabatron - warm, but bass boomed too much
#2 Mackie - clear & forward
#5 RNP - upper mids forward
#3 RNP - clean highs, bass weak
#1 RNP - upper mids forward, bass weak, some distortion

As another poster commented, the RNP sounded better as time went by, assuming the cuts are presented in the order they were recorded. Can anyone explain that? Was the RNP warming up, or is it all in the mic positioning?

anonymous Sun, 01/18/2004 - 16:59

I always thought each preamp is just a tool in the tool box. I mean, if it was as easy as "this mic" plus "that pre" always = "the perfect sound for the mix", there wouldn't be people making money from recording. I mean, I accidently stumbled on a great sound with a James Brownish singer, a Sennheiser 845 and my old cheap Mackie pres. Go figure.

I appreciate the effort to post comparisons of gear. I use those camparisons to guide purchases far more than the hype that comes with each new low/mid priced product. But getting all uptight about which pre is best based upon these comparisons misses the point. The screw driver might not have fit this job, but it might be great for the next.

Now, if I had the bucks, would I have started with an RNP in my toolbox? Probably not. If people keep saying something sounds almost as good as "x" expensive pre, I'd buy "x". I bought the rnp at a time when it fit my budget. Now that I can afford more expensive stuff, did I stop using the rnp? No way. Its a solid, consistent performer that does a really nice job at some things.

So, keep the comparisons coming, Kurt. I feel another impulse buy coming on! But, I've gotten way too much use out of my rnp to start feeling bad about it now!

Kent L T Sun, 01/18/2004 - 19:26

Ok! The RNP obviously works better with this mike I am thinking that 1,4 & 6 is the RNP and the others are the millennia. I don't have any experience with either of these pres so my opinion is based on what I heard from the previous test. I like the Mike but I'm not sure I like either of these pres in this particular setup.

anonymous Sun, 01/18/2004 - 21:44

There's a very interesting comparison of the RNP with a Sytek over at harmoney central's recording forum. Look for oklaSTAR's "my next pre" (or something like that). In that test, I thought the RNP sounded brittle next to the Sytek.

I had trouble making comparisons with Kurt's Millennia test. Part of that is because my son is on the computer with the good speakers. (damn kids!) Part of it is that I hate a boxy sounding guitar. Tracks 1, 3 and 5 have a greater degree of "boxiness" in the sound that I more often attribute to mic placement. Depending on how close you were to the guitar, even with the mics right next to each other, the one closest to the sound hole may simply be amplifying that boxy attribute.

I liked the warmth of track 1, hated the boxiness and wanted more top end presence. I'd guess Millennia. 2 was less boxy and brighter, but a little thin and less present. I'm thinking RNP here. 3. had more presence, was boxier than 2 and had more definition. (Millennia?) 4 sounded brighter than 3 and, on these cheap speakers, sounded more full. (RNP?) 5 sounded boxy again, had more top but less clarity in the bottom. (RNP? 6 sounded thinner until the lower end and had less presence. (Millennia?)

Over-all, on these speakers, I was loosing the ability to tell enough difference. I'd like to hear a comparison of tracks in a mix (more like oklaSTAR's)...on better speakers.

Bobby Loux Sun, 01/18/2004 - 22:06

Originally posted by shortyprs:
There's a very interesting comparison of the RNP with a Sytek over at harmoney central's recording forum. Look for oklaSTAR's "my next pre" (or something like that). In that test, I thought the RNP sounded brittle next to the Sytek.

Its not all that interesting or scientific, (just another opinion) as I've heard just as many people over there pick the RNp over the Sytek!

but the truth is it doesn't really matter! I've given Kurt hell over his position with the RNP, but even I cant believe this little box has stirred up so much havoc here...its all been said, both sides! Kurt has done his best to post fair comparisons. if he ends up hating it, has no bearing on the pre or the users...I'll still dig mine.

if you like it, use it. if you don't, don't! simple...Its a great little pre for budget oriented folks who want pro results. if you have the dough to spend on something more, then by all means get that! I would love to have my Batman lunchbox full of API's with my Batgirl thermos.

this has become pretty funny!

MisterBlue Sun, 01/18/2004 - 22:15

Here is my grouping :
#1, 4 and 6 seem to be recordings with one pre amp, #2,3 and 5 appear to be the other one.
As to which is which ... I don't own either one so I have to judge from Kurt's first test file ... I would say that 1,4 and 6 are the RNP (a bit clearer and less boomy) and the other are the Millennia.

MisterBlue.

audiokid Mon, 01/19/2004 - 09:03

From this comparision, I'd rather focus on what I think there good for.

1 , guessing it is the Mellennia. It's less upfront but sounds smoother and cleaner. Adjusting the gain to taste might just do it for a variety of sounds. In this comparision out of the two, this pre is more apealing for my tastes because it sounds cleaner, but it also is a bit boring. Maybe better for wide freq sounds like keys or high end stuff with cymbals, bells etc.

2, guessing it's the RNP. It is a bit more up front but a bit grainy which concerns me. IMO an entire mix with this unit might sound zizzy and over baring. I wouldn't use it with acoustic instruments. Maybe lower freq blues vocals or bass. (snare!) So far in both comparisions I hear the same inherent sound with this pre and picked it out in less than 10 sec. It does have an attitude, which I like but don't like the distorted edge. Do others hear that?

anonymous Tue, 01/20/2004 - 06:27

8thstreet (though, I bought mine from mercenary)
bayviewproaudio.com

I've tried some ribbon mics through it and they do perform great, seems to bring out a nice brightness to it and keeps the mid bass intact (it doesn't colour it a whole helluva lot down there)

I also really like RNP on nylon string guitar, about ten times more then steel with other pres.

I have done almost a complete mix with RNP when I first got it, and didn't like it a whole lot. I was overdriving the RNP a bit too much though, and it was very "bitey". I still use it here and there along with other smoother pres. It's makes a nice contrast.

[ January 20, 2004, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Yon ]

teleharmonic Wed, 01/21/2004 - 06:50

Originally posted by David French:
On the RNP vs Millennia I am very convinced that 1, 4, and 5 are from one pre and 2, 3, and 6 are from the other.

i also agree with this. i have not transferred the files over to hear them with my monitors so with a headphone listen i'd have to say that, on this source, with these mics, in this instance, in this solo mix circumstance... i like the high end of 1,4 and 6 and the low end of 2,3 and 5...

...so if they could be melted together i'd appreciate that.

this fence is awfully comfortable.

greg

bap Wed, 01/21/2004 - 11:26

I agree with misterblue and teleharmonic that 1,4,& 6 belong together and that 2,3,& 5 also.

I thought that the difference between 5 and 6 were the least clear. I went back and forth usually to the D string and lower as reference instead of the higher notes.

I don't know clearly which is which but since Misterblue guessed 1, 4,& 6 for RNP, I'll guess 2, 3,& 5. Besides, Kurt said he preferred the RNP in this comparison, though he wouldn't say why. He seems to like fat sounds in mid/low range. Just a guess.

In other words:
#1- Millennia, #2- RNP
#3- RNP, #4- Millennia
#5- RNP, #6- Millennia

[ January 21, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: coats ]

KurtFoster Wed, 01/21/2004 - 12:23

Just to clear things up.. there seems to be some confusion..

First, all the samples are from the same recording. One pass was made to record all six samples. Two mics placed as close together as possible were use to record. One mic went to the RNP and one mic went to the Millennia.

1/2 are what vs. what?
3/4 are what vs. what?
5/6 are what vs.what?

With this in mind, everyone that answered may go back and edit their posts if they wish. Please do not vote again. It will skew the results.

A few more guesses and I will post the answers.. this has been very interesting to say the least.. Kurt

Treena Foster Wed, 01/28/2004 - 22:23

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
Just to clear things up.. there seems to be some confusion..

First, all the samples are from the same recording. One pass was made to record all six samples. Two mics placed as close together as possible were use to record. One mic went to the RNP and one mic went to the Millennia.

1/2 are what vs. what?
3/4 are what vs. what?
5/6 are what vs.what?

With this in mind, everyone that answered may go back and edit their posts if they wish. Please do not vote again. It will skew the results.

A few more guesses and I will post the answers.. this has been very interesting to say the least.. Kurt

Kurt, now that you cleared that up, how about posting the results so these fine gentlmen can get back to their daily posting!!

(Dead Link Removed)
Treena

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