I was recently thinking about this as well. could you use a y-cable and plug one side into the amp and the other into a DI box first then into the pre? or not use the DI at all, just plug into the pre?

Originally posted by by:
I was recently thinking about this as well. could you use a y-cable and plug one side into the amp and the other into a DI box first then into the pre? or not use the DI at all, just plug into the pre?

This is what I have been doing, however by doing this, you are basically cutting the impediance in half, so the guitar amp is seeing 500K Ohms rather than 1 M Ohm, this can effect the sound of the amp...

I want to make sure that the amp still sees 1 M Ohm...

Originally posted by Doublehelix:
I am looking to double track guitar/bass, so I need to split the signal coming from the instrument with one high impedience line (1 MOhm) going to a guitar amp, and one line-level going to a mic pre's line-in.

So far, I have been a bit unsuccessful in my search, until it dawned on me that an active A/B switch might do the trick...one that allows *both* A and B outs to be active at the same time.

I looked at a Whirlwind Selector, and it has two 1MOhm outputs...it would be easy to DI the second output down to line-level...

Thanks!

Any other suggestions here???

I just use a Carl Martin floor pedal that has a "clean out" along with the regular out(for distortion),hit the switch to defeat the distortion, one out feeds the pre line in, thru my p/bay. The other feeds the amp, works great for bass :p

DH,

This has nothing to do with audio or DI boxes.

I was looking at my wife's popsicle stick lamp and thought of you - especially the animated logo you use elsewhere.

:D

--Ethan

Whadaya think? Close?

Hehe...not bad...not bad! Looks pretty close to Watson and Crick's model!!! Was it designed as a DNA model, or just an abstract design that looks like a DNA strand?

Of course as a lamp, it is just plain butt-ugly!!! :) No offense!!!! Hehe... I guess I just can't see it fitting in with the decor at our place anywhere!

D,

> Was it designed as a DNA model, or just an abstract design that looks like a DNA strand?

I really doubt it was meant to look like DNA! Elli bought that from a vendor in Grand Central Station long before I knew her. Probably in the 1970s. Did they even know about DNA back then? :) No offense!!!!

Heck, I don't care - it's her lamp!

--Ethan

Originally posted by Doublehelix:
I am looking to double track guitar/bass, so I need to split the signal coming from the instrument with one high impedience line (1 MOhm) going to a guitar amp, and one line-level going to a mic pre's line-in.

So far, I have been a bit unsuccessful in my search, until it dawned on me that an active A/B switch might do the trick...one that allows *both* A and B outs to be active at the same time.

I looked at a Whirlwind Selector, and it has two 1MOhm outputs...it would be easy to DI the second output down to line-level...

Any other suggestions here???

Thanks!

Might cost a bit more than you want but a sansamp will do the trick (just leave the effect turned off)

I actually have a SansAmp Bass Driver...I'll bet that would work too...

That's the one!
Great little boxes I think!

Yeah, I love the SansAmp, I use it all the time for bass! Best $200 I ever spent!

back on topic.

The solution to this setup is a Little Labs MultiZ DI. It doesn't load passive pickups and can send your signal to the amp and MicPre, ect.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.littlela…"]Link to MultiZ Box[/]="http://www.littlela…"]Link to MultiZ Box[/]

It had better be good... $550

Howdy

I've been using the [="http://www.radialeng.com/di-jd7.htm"]Radial JD7[/]="http://www.radialen…"]Radial JD7[/] to do this. Its not cheap, but its really good. The unit features a "drag" control that lets you control the load on the pickups.

There's also a slightly cheaper version, the [[url=http://="http://www.radialen…"]JDV[/]="http://www.radialen…"]JDV[/] .

Originally posted by RecorderMan:
back on topic.

The solution to this setup is a Little Labs MultiZ DI. It doesn't load passive pickups and can send your signal to the amp and MicPre, ect.

RM...what you propose is a great DI box, but according to the web page, the outputs are:

[list]

I am having a heck of time trying to find a dealer for the Radial stuff...I have searched *everywhere*!!! Where did you get your stuff???

Howdy

If you send an email to "dealer@radialeng.com" they will direct you to the nearest dude.

I got my unit a local place called [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.guitaroa…"]"Guitar Oasis"[/]="http://www.guitaroa…"]"Guitar Oasis"[/]

Originally posted by Doublehelix:

I need at least one hi-impedence (1MOhm) output...

Forgive me, I mat be confused.
But what exactly are you talking about.
The gtr's ouput is Hi-Z. So is the parrallel out of the D.I. (or any D.I. for that matter.
(the MultiZ alos has the standard parallel out)
Just curious, though, ot hawking gear.
more than one out does need the Radial box or a LittleLabs PCP (along the lines of the Radial)

Originally posted by bgavin:
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.littlela…"]Link to MultiZ Box[/]="http://www.littlela…"]Link to MultiZ Box[/]

It had better be good... $550

quality usually isn't cheap

If you send an email to "dealer@radialeng.com" they will direct you to the nearest dude.

I did that already, and will hopefully hear back...

Forgive me, I mat be confused.
But what exactly are you talking about.
The gtr's ouput is Hi-Z. So is the parrallel out of the D.I. (or any D.I. for that matter.
(the MultiZ alos has the standard parallel out)
Just curious, though, ot hawking gear.
more than one out does need the Radial box or a LittleLabs PCP (along the lines of the Radial)

When you say "parallel out" on a DI, this is a direct out, and is not "balanced" or "line level" signal. I don't have any DI boxes that have a parallel out, they all have hi-z ins and low-z outs, that is how most DI that I am aware of operate. This way you can send a hi-z guitar signal to a PA system or mic pre for recording. A DI box usually converts the hi-z signal to low-z, that is their main function as far as I know.

I do not want only a balanced out (or line-level) signal, I need a hi-z AND a balanced line-level signal.

From the description on the Little Lab's web site, it looks like this device has only line-level outs.

ok...maybe I'm forgetting my electronics. But the little labs DI and every other di I have ever used has a parallel 1/4" connection to the input. It is before the transformer/amplification/whatever(passive or di). It is at hi impedance at this point. A gtr output is high-Z...into the amp, Hi-Z. Going into any DI in and out of the parallel connector you'll still be (except for what ever loss the connector, solder, wire does) at the same impedence that you had coming out of the gtr. That's the way DI's are. You go out of the gtr/bass into this and on to your amp, then out of the Lo-Z output into a pre, etc. (I don't know about the web description, but that DI also has the obligatory par. out with the input as well as the other outs you mentioned).
I mean call me crazy...but your very first post asks for nothing more than what any standard DI does.

[ August 18, 2003, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: RecorderMan ]

by my reading of the original question, i have to agree with Recorderman... any standard DI box provides a parallel output to feed an amp.
two small semantic issues though (with the original post):
one, is that a DI outputs a MIC level to the desk, or mic pre, not a line level...
and second, what you are doing is recording a source to two tracks. that's NOT what's commonly referred to as "double tracking" (which implies two PERFORMANCES)

Originally posted by RecorderMan:
ok...maybe I'm forgetting my electronics. But the little labs DI and every other di I have ever used has a parallel 1/4" connection to the input. It is before the transformer/amplification/whatever(passive or di). It is at hi impedance at this point. A gtr output is high-Z...into the amp, Hi-Z. Going into any DI in and out of the parallel connector you'll still be (except for what ever loss the connector, solder, wire does) at the same impedence that you had coming out of the gtr. That's the way DI's are. You go out of the gtr/bass into this and on to your amp, then out of the Lo-Z output into a pre, etc. (I don't know about the web description, but that DI also has the obligatory par. out with the input as well as the other outs you mentioned).
I mean call me crazy...but your very first post asks for nothing more than what any standard DI does.

RM...no, you are absolutely correct , this is *exactly* what I need! My experience with DI boxes are the Whirlwind and Horizon DI boxes that we have used live on stage for the last 5,000 years! None of the ones that I have used have that parallel out (The Director, The Hot Box, The Imp, etc.).

I must not be using the right DI boxes!!! ;) thanks for the pointer, I will look again at the Little Labs unit to see if they talk about a parallel out...all I saw when I first looked was the balanced line-level outs. I have heard nothing but great stuff about the Little Labs gear, like the variable phase box...what a great idea! The variable input impedience on the Multi-Z box is a *great* idea too! Hopefully it has the parallel out as you describe!

by my reading of the original question, i have to agree with Recorderman... any standard DI box provides a parallel output to feed an amp.
two small semantic issues though (with the original post):
one, is that a DI outputs a MIC level to the desk, or mic pre, not a line level...
and second, what you are doing is recording a source to two tracks. that's NOT what's commonly referred to as "double tracking" (which implies two PERFORMANCES)

OK...I guess I am the idiot here...I have never seen (or maybe "noticed") a parallel out on a DI box!!! As soon as I am done typing here, I am heading down to the basement to look at my DI boxes (I have 2 of them).

You are correct about the "double tracking" part, and I guess in the true sense of the term, I am not actually "double tracking" but rather trying to get 2 different versions of single performance to tape. One is a really clean signal (direct to the mic pre), and the seond is the amplified (distorted) signal from the amp (mic'ed, obviously).

And finally, you are also right, it is not a line-level, but a mic level. The Little Labs box refers to a line level signal as well as a mic level signal.

Thanks guys for your input, and for putting me in my place!!! :mad: Hehe...

[ August 18, 2003, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Doublehelix ]

OK...I just went down and grabbed my 2 DI boxes. This is what I have:

1) A Horizon "Straightline" (passive) that is at least 15-20 years old.

It has a Hi-Z in, a Lo-Z out, a Ground Lift switch, and a Hi-Z Out... Is this the parallel out??? I've never used that jack...ever! I guess I never really thought about it before!

2) A Whirlwind Director Direct Box 4-5 years old...

It has a 1/4" input, an XLR output, a ground lift, a flat/filter switch (hi-cut), an inst/amp switch (30 dB pad), and a 1/4" output, which I am *now* assuming that this is the parallel output...

Geez...I feel like a freakin' idiot! In all these years, I have never really noticed/thought about that damn 1/4" output...and I guess I never thought that it would be just a parallel "through" jack...of course now in retrospect, it makes perfect sense. for example, you can take your bass guitar, plug it into the DI box, then take the hi-z out to your amp, and the lo-z to the PA. We always just took the line-out on the back of the amps to the DI box, and then to the PA...

OK, so it looks like I have had the solution at the tip of my fingers all along with one of these cheap DI boxes. I don't know that I trust the quality of these guys for recording...any comments here?

I am still pretty interested in the Little Labs or the Radial units...there is no way that these cheap "live" DI's can be worth a dang at less that $100 compared to the $500 Little Labs or Radial units...

Thanks for the "enlightenment" guys...you learn something new every day... :)

Originally posted by Doublehelix:
OK...I just went down and grabbed my 2 DI boxes. This is what I have:

1) A Horizon "Straightline" (passive) that is at least 15-20 years old.

It has a Hi-Z in, a Lo-Z out, a Ground Lift switch, and a Hi-Z Out... Is this the parallel out??? I've never used that jack...ever! I guess I never really thought about it before!

2) A Whirlwind Director Direct Box 4-5 years old...

It has a 1/4" input, an XLR output, a ground lift, a flat/filter switch (hi-cut), an inst/amp switch (30 dB pad), and a 1/4" output, which I am *now* assuming that this is the parallel output...

Those outs are parallel's of the input.
They should be more than fine for what you want to do. I've got the DI I metioned, but many many times I'm somewhere, don't have my di, and use whatver the studio has, and I'm just fine; and so will you be too.
save the money.

[ August 18, 2003, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: RecorderMan ]

Yeah...uhh...all of my DI's have a 'parallel output to the lo-z out.My Countryman has a nice little Transformer in it so theres no cross talk.

I just received my first Countryman... interesting that it is sturdy enough to park my truck on it.

And to think it will also be a good DI...

:D

OK guys...rub it in...rub it in...!!! :)

I just never noticed the 1/4" out on my DIs before, and I guess it is mainly because in a live situation, I never had a need to use one. Now that I need one, every else knows about it but me!!! :roll: