Editing is helpful if you can do it quickly.
But if you find yourself working on that one edit for 30 minutes and it's not sounding right and you could have just re-sang it to where you like it in 5 min, then... well, I guess it all depends on how much you enjoy editing. Lol.

Donny, I think he wanted to know if it sounds acceptable or if he should resing it...

The song is interesting.. but the drums sucks at being the same at all parts of the song but it should change. . also fills without cymbals at the end seems like something a drummer would not do..
Also the wholes song misses some lowend.

pcrecord, post: 452910, member: 46460 wrote: Donny, I think he wanted to know if it sounds acceptable or if he should resing it...

The song is interesting.. but the drums sucks at being the same at all parts of the song but it should change. . also fills without cymbals at the end seems like something a drummer would not do..
Also the wholes song misses some lowend.

Thanks PC - yes the drums are my weakest point for sure. These are mostly stock rhythms and fills from superior drummer. I've not been particularly skilled at integrating them into my compositions in ways that are not arbitrary. I like the idea of a driving rhythm - like a train - taking you through the narrative -- I just couldn't find a second or 3rd rhythm that worked with the first..... ill spend some time with it for sure to see if I can break it up....

The weird mouth sound on the "K" is something I can try to eliminate in my singing but also I suspect it's the kind of thing that's quickly and commonly edited.

ha, I love your voice and raw sound. Its so Canadian 54 40 sounding. With a bit of addition personalities and dynamic attitude in this, it would get the attention of a certain crowd we know is a damn good time.

Regarding the drums and dynamics in general. The hats are too dominant and I think this song would sound a lot better with a band that has been playing it for a while, live and tracked well. It's perfect as a demo, now get the band happening !

Kudo's

i listened and it sounds good to me but that's on a laptop.

as far as consonants go, what a lot of singers do is to not pronounce the consonants on the backing harmony tracks. just let the lead vox define it.

audiokid, post: 452950, member: 1 wrote: ha, I love your voice and raw sound. Its so Canadian 54 40 sounding. With a bit of addition personalities and dynamic attitude in this, it would get the attention of a certain crowd we know is a damn good time.

Regarding the drums and dynamics in general. The hats are too dominant and I think this song would sound a lot better with a band that has been playing it for a while, live and tracked well. It's perfect as a demo, now get the band happening !

Kudo's

Thanks Chris - that's very kind of you. Working out of the bedroom (AKA Studio A) most of my stuff is coming together in a vacuum. What I notice about that is that my tracks and the parts themselves become quite fluid and can meld too closely during tracking over time. An example is that If I'm laying out a 2nd guitar, my brain is moving it too closely towards the first guitar part just because that part is so familiar to my ear so after a couple of takes it's suddenly less distinct. Or if I'm laying bass down, that too is too familiar or has my little flair on it that is good for the flow of a song but makes it very subtly homogeneous. I'm trying to create distinct textures but they all contain my personality (which is good but it's also bad) . I know the addition of different players would change this sauce for the better even if they were playing my parts. My goal for the next 12 months is to get some sort of band together (or perhaps borrow my friend's band).

Some people that have heard this track had a real hard time with the suicide - I wrote it explicitly because that was how we experienced it as kids. I crafted an alternate version that deals with the suicide in a much more implied & poetic way -- I'll post that here too for any opinions. I'm of two minds. I know the 2nd version would be a more commercial property and give the song some legs if it ever got recorded so maybe it's better? Don't know. Still thinking it through. Many thanks for your critique. I hear the 54-40 influence which is kind of neat. It's also got a POH vibe too (in the same vein).

GALAGA KING (with alternate stanza)

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Hey, if you want to try turning down the hats and keyboard trill 3db or so... and crank the 2/4 snare up 3db, I think it would sound even better.

audiokid, post: 452989, member: 1 wrote: Hey, if you want to try turning down the hats and keyboard trill 3db or so... and crank the 2/4 snare up 3db, I think it would sound even better.

Thanks Chris --- on this track there are no keys - just two guitars and a bass (plus the sample from the video game which is a bit loud). I'm definitely revisiting the drums. I'll try what you suggest for sure.

DogsoverLava, post: 452990, member: 48175 wrote: (plus the sample from the video game which is a bit loud)

gotcha.. , that's what I was referring to as "keys". (y)

audiokid, post: 452991, member: 1 wrote: gotcha.. , that's what I was referring to as "keys". (y)

I thought so..... it's funny after like 35 years I remember the sounds of that game like they are part of my DNA.

Here's a version with the snare drum popping more on the 2 & 4, as well as some general drum taming and some dynamic blending, with the addition of some cymbal swells on the C alternate stanza deals with the suicide in a very discrete way. Mix might be a touch hot with a couple of outlier hits slightly hitting the red. Like Chris suggested, I'm looking at this more as a good song demo as opposed to radio ready.

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Yeah!

Its improving. If I may keep suggesting. I would add a touch of 10k on the kick so it has a bit more definition. I would also see if you can cut the hh timing to 1/8th during the verses instead of 16th through the entire track. I think the 16ths are creating ( for lack of a better description) boring dynamic to this.

audiokid, post: 453005, member: 1 wrote: Its improving. If I may keep suggesting. I would add a touch of 10k on the kick so it has a bit more definition. I would also see if you can cut the hh timing to 1/8th during the verses instead of 16th through the entire track. I think the 16ths are creating ( for lack of a better description) boring dynamic to this.

I'll get on that tonight Chris -- thanks for your help and direction. It's fun zeroing in on stuff and feeling how the cohesion starts to lift the track to a whole other level.

(edited)

If you can accent 1 beat on the kick a bit more, that would really help too. The track needs a more solid "boom" before the smack!

I would also add a touch of reverb on the kick so it breaths out and also sounds live. Make sure the kick its dead in the middle of the mix. If you can use a master stereo reverb on the mix apposed to mono reverb (maybe you are), that would be choice imo.

If I was mixing this, I would make sure all the individual tracks (with the exception of the overheads) were mono and sub grouped to their own drum, bass, guitar, vocal, background vocals, effects> stereo subgroups.

I would then have one master stereo reverb and blend into it so the whole song sounds like a band playing live.
NOTE: besides the kick tweaks I mention... the overall levels are very close now so don't mess with those. Whats missing is careful reverb imaging,

Hope that makes sense.

Listening more, you could leave the 16ths on the verses but add an 1/8th ride through the chorus'.
There also seems to be a tad too much compression sucking back the vocals in parts.

These are just my personal creative suggestions which may or may not fit after trying them.

Again, what you have now makes for a great demo which may be all you are looking for. In that case, it is perfectly good enough imho.

audiokid, post: 453015, member: 1 wrote: Listening more, you could leave the 16ths on the verses but add an 1/8th ride through the chorus'.
There also seems to be a tad too much compression sucking back the vocals in parts.

These are just my personal creative suggestions which may or may not fit after trying them.

Again, what you have now makes for a great demo which may be all you are looking for. In that case, it is perfectly good enough imho.

Wow -- it's so hard once you start playing around with the drums -- when I drop the 16ths the energy on the track falls apart no matter what section I drop them in. Part of me sees the 16ths as the heartbeat of the track in the same way the video game has that relentless energy -- those bees that start attacking and falling just overwhelm the player -- but I do understand the need for variety and how the change can help the listener orientate within the song structure. I'm going to work on drums for the next couple of hours still and then post what I've got. This is where I wish I was a drummer because I'm sure a drummer's instinct behind the kit would just naturally find that groove. I did make the changes with Bass drum you suggested Chris and ditched all the verbs on the individual tracks and routed all the grouped buses to the verb on the master 2 bus - you'll hear that in the next upload too. Also slightly lessened compression on the vocal which helped bring out a little bit more clarity (slightly less strangled). This was the first time that I was able to track on vocals singing in this style where I didn't have to ride the volume fader or get into envelopes with it so I might have just overplayed my hand a bit with the compression fearing the dynamics might escape and run wild.

The process of working through these suggestions and challenges has been quite revealing and very rewarding and I thank everyone for their help and for listening to the track.

Here's with all the other mix changes, plus one version with some drum pattern variation & another keeping it the same ---- I'm still open to direction on the drums but part of what I'm trying to achieve is that driving rhythm that is relentless. Also I'm considering dropping in some lead guitar fills to break a few things up as a strategy - maybe that's a way to overcome the drum monotony.

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

2nd mix Sounds more open. !

Listening on my truck the snare is pretty edgy . Kick could still come up. Bottom end on the mix is weak.
I’m thinking your monitoring is boomy in your room? Which is why you aren’t hearing the low end well.

For fun...
You could put a compressor on the master bus now.
I’d also look into bass treatments.

audiokid, post: 453027, member: 1 wrote: 2nd mix Sounds more open. !

Listening on my truck the snare is pretty edgy . Kick could still come up. Bottom end on the mix is weak.
I’m thinking your monitoring is boomy in your room? Which is why you aren’t hearing the low end well.

For fun...
You could put a compressor on the master bus now.
I’d also look into bass treatments.

OK - so last one for today

Tamed the snare a bit while adding more energy to the kick. Overall Bass boost on the 2 bus, with an additional tube compressor on the bass guitar giving it a long drawn out richness -- like a caramel toffee. Bumped the BG vocals and tried to give the main vocal a slight bass and mid tweak without losing the "honk" that's part of the vocal. Kept drum patterns as original -- I still go back and forth on that. Added some Lead guitar screams on the final chorus --- not sure if it works. I did a few passes with the lead guitar over the whole track but I didn't like what I heard -- too disruptive -- too arbitrary. Yes there's a wah in the lead screams! Added compression on the 2 bus as well as well as a limiter. Again thanks for all your patience and input.

Galaga King V9

[MEDIA=audio]https://recording.o…

Fun song, much better. !