I can't help you with the DJ part. I can tell you that, in order to record and mix with great sonics, substantial money is required, unless you're just a hobbyist, at which point there are many cheap options for you.
Just don't expect a pro sound out of budget gear.

You can pick up an entry level, 2 channel audio interface/mic preamp for around $150. Both Presonus and Focusrite have entry level models in this price range. They both also have built-in converters that will support up to 98k SR, so you won't need a separate stand alone converter.

Everything on your list is typical entry level grade gear.

Why don't you tell us your budget... as well as more detail regarding your recording goals. The more you tell us, the more we can help you.

I agree with Donny, Presonus and Focusrite make audio interfaces that could go in the studio and live without any problems.
Their preamps are fairly good for the price tag. You just need to plan how many tracks you want to record at once and buy the unit accordingly.

Reading the OP, I find some incompatibilities;
First, the gaming PC and also DJ vs Recording.
Most gaming and DJ activity use a lot of internet communications now a day. This is the biggest risk for the stability of recording work.
Also gaming computer tweaks are often incompatible with audio optimisations.

The first thing I would do is Buy an audio interface for live and recording then a budget laptop for DJ nights.

DrewZ312, post: 423102, member: 48734 wrote: switchable between flat and non-flat.

The difference doesn't lie in the DAC but more in the speaker choices. Have 2 sets; studio monitors and live speakers. They are not compatible activities (at least speaker wise)

I have the Yamaha HS8 they are very good monitors for the price but they need to be at least 3 feet from the wall to build up bass or you will need to buy their sub unit. (which I'm gonna do soon)

DonnyThompson, post: 423112, member: 46114 wrote: I can't help you with the DJ part. I can tell you that, in order to record and mix with great sonics, substantial money is required, unless you're just a hobbyist, at which point there are many cheap options for you.
Just don't expect a pro sound out of budget gear.

You can pick up an entry level, 2 channel audio interface/mic preamp for around $150. Both Presonus and Focusrite have entry level models in this price range. They both also have built-in converters that will support up to 98k SR, so you won't need a separate stand alone converter.

Everything on your list is typical entry level grade gear.

Why don't you tell us your budget... as well as more detail regarding your recording goals. The more you tell us, the more we can help you.

My budget is $200 to $300 for most equipment, one piece at a time. In some cases I'll save a little more if it is for a good quality piece of gear that will give me much better results. I'll work my way up to the more expensive stuff later. Pioneer has studio monitors that switch back and forth and I just thought there might be some piece of gear that allows me to do the same thing. For everything other than parties I have a laptop and most clubs, bars, etc. have their own PA system.

I am open to recommendations as far as anything worth spending more on but then it will take me longer to get started.

pcrecord, post: 423118, member: 46460 wrote: I agree with Donny, Presonus and Focusrite make audio interfaces that could go in the studio and live without any problems.
Their preamps are fairly good for the price tag. You just need to plan how many tracks you want to record at once and buy the unit accordingly.

Reading the OP, I find some incompatibilities;
First, the gaming PC and also DJ vs Recording.
Most gaming and DJ activity use a lot of internet communications now a day. This is the biggest risk for the stability of recording work.
Also gaming computer tweaks are often incompatible with audio optimisations.

The first thing I would do is Buy an audio interface for live and recording then a budget laptop for DJ nights.

The difference doesn't lie in the DAC but more in the speaker choices. Have 2 sets; studio monitors and live speakers. They are not compatible activities (at least speaker wise)

I have the Yamaha HS8 they are very good monitors for the price but they need to be at least 3 feet from the wall to build up bass or you will need to buy their sub unit. (which I'm gonna do soon)

I already have a laptop and most places have their own PA system. I'm an IT so I can probably resolve any incompatibilities or issues. If necessary, I can disconnect completely from the internet when recording. I built the PC and continue to upgrade and change it so it's NOT going anywhere! Not really sure what gaming computer tweaks you are referring to, I do not game online at all. All my music will be stored on a 4TB external hard drive. There has to be a way to switch between live listening and flat studio sound. If I have to buy active studio monitors and a PA system for home and party use then it's going to take me even longer. I understand what you are saying but what happens when I want to record myself DJ-ing?! : )

DrewZ312, post: 423127, member: 48734 wrote: There has to be a way to switch between live listening and flat studio sound.

If there is, I'm not aware it exists. The best monitors are those who will expose defects in your music. Flat is not enjoyable to common people. Most of my customers are freaking bad about my sound until they go in their car to listen to the mix... Even if I explain that the monitors are not pleasing on purpose. Some just need to reassured.

I'm also an IT, (for the past 12 years) and I used DAWs for the past 15 years. If you are doing it for yourself. You can deal with instability and take the time to look for solutions. If you offer a service and get paid, a dedicated stable system is a must ! (at least for me)

DrewZ312, post: 423127, member: 48734 wrote: I understand what you are saying but what happens when I want to record myself DJ-ing?! : )

You can do that with any speakers or headphones because songs and most samples are pre-mastered. Where good reference is a must is when you mix tracks you record with a mic. To adjust the sound you need a true audio representation because it's the only way you can have a chance that your music translate nicely on most sound systems. (ex : if your monitors give you too much bass, chances are you may not mix enough and your music will sound thin.. )

pcrecord, post: 423137, member: 46460 wrote: If there is, I'm not aware it exists. The best monitors are those who will expose defects in your music. Flat is not enjoyable to common people. Most of my customers are freaking bad about my sound until they go in their car to listen to the mix... Even if I explain that the monitors are not pleasing on purpose. Some just need to reassured.

I'm also an IT, (for the past 12 years) and I used DAWs for the past 15 years. If you are doing it for yourself. You can deal with instability and take the time to look for solutions. If you offer a service and get paid, a dedicated stable system is a must ! (at least for me)

You can do that with any speakers or headphones because songs and most samples are pre-mastered. Where good reference is a must is when you mix tracks you record with a mic. To adjust the sound you need a true audio representation because it's the only way you can have a chance that your music translate nicely on most sound systems. (ex : if your monitors give you too much bass, chances are you may not mix enough and your music will sound thin.. )

Thank you very much (both of you) for your help. I have always been the type to want to combine as much as possible but I guess in this case I should not. Sounds like you know your stuff so I will take your advice. I guess I will have to focus on DJ-ing again first and hopefully build an entirely different system for recording. So much for the days of recording mixes onto cassette tapes and CD's! Everything will just take me longer than I had anticipated. So I will use my laptop for DJ-ing, and build a dedicated PC for recording and my current PC for gaming. What should a dedicated music production PC consist of? Have you built one? If so what parts? I want professional sounding material and since I have to wait anyway I would rather just get good enough equipment to make professional sounding recordings. Is there any list of parts I can go off of...or what has worked best for others in the past as far as a dedicated recording PC? I could just do a MAC but options seem much more limited for custom building.

$200-$300 budget definitely puts you in the "entry level/hobbyist" class.

Not that this is a bad thing, we all have to start somewhere... but you shouldn't get your hopes up about achieving anything even remotely close to a "professional" sound with the gear you are limited to in that budget.

There are professional members here who have $10k invested just in microphones alone, with another $1500 - $7000 invested in preamps and converters. Tack on another grand or two for studio monitors, power amps, cabling, etc., and it's not at all hard to have upwards of $20-$30k invested in even a small studio.

The pioneer speakers you are speaking of will not give you an accurate picture of what your mixes will sound like. It's likely that, as home audio speakers, they have been "hyped" in both the lower and top end frequencies. You could manage to get a decent mix on them, but the minute you take that mix out to play on another system, it will likely be extremely skewed, and will not sound the same as it did when playing back through those speakers - and, in your home as well. Room acoustics are also a major factor in mixing spaces, you want to make sure that the room you are mixing in is as "flat" as possible, so that the room itself isn't "lying" to you about how your mix truly sounds, and acoustic treatment isn't cheap, either.

Audio Recording never has been - and never will be - cheap, at least not to do it right.

If your main bread and butter is DJ'ing, then perhaps you should stick with that for awhile, and either put money aside for some nice audio recording gear, or, invest it back into your DJ service.

I can't offer any advice about DJ equipment. I would if I could - I'm just not able to, because it's not my thang. ;)

d.

Drew, DJing doesn't need a lot of hi-end gear. You can find presonus or focusrite audio interface that combined to any laptop will do very good job.

As for professional recording, it all depends what you want to record. If you want to do voice over, karaoke or simply present your DJ skills with youtube videos on which you talk a bit, then the same audio interface will do the job.

Now, if you are to record a band or some artists album, the game is different.
I'll wait until your precision about what you want to do..

DonnyThompson, post: 423150, member: 46114 wrote: $200-$300 budget definitely puts you in the "entry level/hobbyist" class.

Not that this is a bad thing, we all have to start somewhere... but you shouldn't get your hopes up about achieving anything even remotely close to a "professional" sound with the gear you are limited to in that budget.

There are professional members here who have $10k invested just in microphones alone, with another $1500 - $7000 invested in preamps and converters. Tack on another grand or two for studio monitors, power amps, cabling, etc., and it's not at all hard to have upwards of $20-$30k invested in even a small studio.

The pioneer speakers you are speaking of will not give you an accurate picture of what your mixes will sound like. It's likely that, as home audio speakers, they have been "hyped" in both the lower and top end frequencies. You could manage to get a decent mix on them, but the minute you take that mix out to play on another system, it will likely be extremely skewed, and will not sound the same as it did when playing back through those speakers - and, in your home as well. Room acoustics are also a major factor in mixing spaces, you want to make sure that the room you are mixing in is as "flat" as possible, so that the room itself isn't "lying" to you about how your mix truly sounds, and acoustic treatment isn't cheap, either.

Audio Recording never has been - and never will be - cheap, at least not to do it right.

If your main bread and butter is DJ'ing, then perhaps you should stick with that for awhile, and either put money aside for some nice audio recording gear, or, invest it back into your DJ service.

I can't offer any advice about DJ equipment. I would if I could - I'm just not able to, because it's not my thang. ;)

d.

I just like to plan ahead and I can go above that, as I said it will just take me longer to save. Since it is not in the cards anytime soon I might as well plan for the equipment that costs more. As far as the Pioneers, it was just an example. I thought that if one pair of monitors is capable of switching then maybe there are other ways. I have been looking into room acoustics also and I will probably make my own. So what type of gear do I need for recordings that sound professional? It sounds like mics and pre-amps play a very important role. Is there any pieces of equipment that are mid-range in price that will still sound professional? The types of music I want to record (besides my own mixes) is rap, hip hop, and RnB. This is why I like the Akai gear. So what do I need to sound worthy of being played on the radio (besides talent and lots of practice)?!

pcrecord, post: 423165, member: 46460 wrote: Drew, DJing doesn't need a lot of hi-end gear. You can find presonus or focusrite audio interface that combined to any laptop will do very good job.

As for professional recording, it all depends what you want to record. If you want to do voice over, karaoke or simply present your DJ skills with youtube videos on which you talk a bit, then the same audio interface will do the job.

Now, if you are to record a band or some artists album, the game is different.
I'll wait until your precision about what you want to do..

I have been a DJ on and off for 30 years. I always used Technics turntables though. I have 2 friends that DJ for a living also and are connected with radio stations in Chicago and Indianapolis. Where I was lost is how to combine it all into one system but it sounds as though it will not produce the best results. So...now I want to plan what I will need for a completely separate recording loop. I wish there were lists of the best equipment by genre or some way to plan it out so I know exactly what I am going after, how much it will all cost, and how long it will take me to get where I want to be. Very grateful for all the advice, thank you again.

Get yourself the serato scratch program and interface. That will take care of your dj ing and listening needs, as well as being compact portable, and somewhat of a standard, or at least it was a few years ago when was the tech for a night club. I'm not sure if it has recording capability.

You need two sets of speakers, entertainment speakers, and monitors. Your Eris monitors should get you buy and I don't believe the hsms will be an sort of an improvemt. A pair of powered 12" pa speakers from Yamaha, jbl, or qsc, is fine for djing, but I'm not sure why you'd need that if most of your gigs have pas already.

A word on mixing on hifi speakers, I used to do this, and still to this day, a lot of those mixes move as well, or better than some of mine, done on "monitors". As long as your matching up what your stuff sounds like compared to others on the same system, it's not going to matter a whole lot for what your doing. Most people will disagree with this. But hear me out. It's very difficult to make a flat speaker. And very expensive to make a flat room. So the reality is, budget speakers aren't flat like the expensive ones are, and even if they were, what's the point in a room That's not comparably flat.

If any manufacturers plan around crappy room acoustics it's hifi manufactures. To me when your mixing on hifi speakers (again using references like u have to on any monitoring system) your mixing in the environment that it's likely to be heard on. as opposed to this imaginary notion of flat the speaker companies selling 300$ speakers will tell you. So while you may not have the detail, in between certain areas, but you sure know how your 100hz is, your vocal range, and your highs. These are areas, that hyped or not that, if you match the to your references, you'll be in the ballpark. And the areas most steroe system designers make sure they hit, usually in an exhaggerated nature, which is okay, as long as your is generally as exhaggerated.

I actually enjoy listening to tunes on reference speakers, because the clarity is usually amazing, and while perhaps not as exciting on the low end as a hyped system, you hear things you wouldn't otherwise hear.

Okay, im ready for the lashings now :)

I'm coming to the realization that your music will probably never sound as good as it does in the studio you mixed it, and it's hinestly taken me a while to kinda get over the disappointment, as I move from the 6k set of speakers to my car. A lot of it was user error, and I've grown better, but its a sad th that a lot of the finer details that are labored on neve pr get re produced properly.

The othe side of this, is not matter what your room sounds like, how flat, the customer is going to listen on their own systems, and unless they are professionals themselves, you'll likely be making your final mix decisions based on some clouded consumer devices anyway.

If you are gonna use a computer for DJ work, many use Virtual DJ combine with a controler.
Something like this : http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIXDECKExp which comes with it's own audio interface is a good choice but there are many more.

As for recording, again, you weren't very precise on what kind of recording setup you aspire to.
If it's voice only. There's a lot of units that can do the job but yes, the first step is to control the room's accoustics so you don't get bad reverbs/delays many home rooms offer.

So what can you buy at first on which you can add up ?
Here's an exemple : http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SaffPro26
This unit has fair preamps for the price and with the digital inputs you could add better preamps later on.
Exemple, the ISA One + digital converter :
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISAOne
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISAOneCard
The ISA one is one of the lower cost hi-end preamps. Has a ton of clean power and although it's not the most transparent, it sound a lot better than the preamps you find in affordable audio interfaces.

After that you need mic(s)
You could start with a shure SM58 or a SM57 they are affordable and sound good on many instruments, specially in non threated environements.
Along the way, there is many mic choices and it all depends on the vocal itself. A shure KSM44 and a AKG 414 are classics that will mostly never sound bad. If you want a mic just for you, you must go in a store and try them until you find the one that matches your voice. It's the way we do it in the studio. Try them all if you need and end up with the right one instead of what is popular of hyped.. ;)

kmetal, post: 423189, member: 37533 wrote: Get yourself the serato scratch program and interface. That will take care of your dj ing and listening needs, as well as being compact portable, and somewhat of a standard, or at least it was a few years ago when was the tech for a night club. I'm not sure if it has recording capability.

You need two sets of speakers, entertainment speakers, and monitors. Your Eris monitors should get you buy and I don't believe the hsms will be an sort of an improvemt. A pair of powered 12" pa speakers from Yamaha, jbl, or qsc, is fine for djing, but I'm not sure why you'd need that if most of your gigs have pas already.

A word on mixing on hifi speakers, I used to do this, and still to this day, a lot of those mixes move as well, or better than some of mine, done on "monitors". As long as your matching up what your stuff sounds like compared to others on the same system, it's not going to matter a whole lot for what your doing. Most people will disagree with this. But hear me out. It's very difficult to make a flat speaker. And very expensive to make a flat room. So the reality is, budget speakers aren't flat like the expensive ones are, and even if they were, what's the point in a room That's not comparably flat.

If any manufacturers plan around crappy room acoustics it's hifi manufactures. To me when your mixing on hifi speakers (again using references like u have to on any monitoring system) your mixing in the environment that it's likely to be heard on. as opposed to this imaginary notion of flat the speaker companies selling 300$ speakers will tell you. So while you may not have the detail, in between certain areas, but you sure know how your 100hz is, your vocal range, and your highs. These are areas, that hyped or not that, if you match the to your references, you'll be in the ballpark. And the areas most steroe system designers make sure they hit, usually in an exhaggerated nature, which is okay, as long as your is generally as exhaggerated.

I actually enjoy listening to tunes on reference speakers, because the clarity is usually amazing, and while perhaps not as exciting on the low end as a hyped system, you hear things you wouldn't otherwise hear.

Okay, im ready for the lashings now :)

I'm coming to the realization that your music will probably never sound as good as it does in the studio you mixed it, and it's hinestly taken me a while to kinda get over the disappointment, as I move from the 6k set of speakers to my car. A lot of it was user error, and I've grown better, but its a sad th that a lot of the finer details that are labored on neve pr get re produced properly.

The othe side of this, is not matter what your room sounds like, how flat, the customer is going to listen on their own systems, and unless they are professionals themselves, you'll likely be making your final mix decisions based on some clouded consumer devices anyway.

Serato comes with the Pioneer controllers. I was planning to get Numark Mixtrack Pro II until one of my DJ friends told me that the quality of the Pioneers is way better and to try for the Pro if I can afford to.

Not sure what hsms is. 12" powered speakers sound like a good idea for parties and stuff. They are portable and provide some good bass. I may be mistaken but I think the idea of flat sounding monitor speakers is that if your recording sounds good on them that it will sound good on the majority of audio systems. That, and of course the clarity and ability to pinpoint any flaws.

I enjoyed hearing music on monitors also and that's one of the reasons I was hoping to create a unified system. I was reading articles written by audio engineers on room acoustics and panels. If you use the right materials you can create much of what is needed for a fraction of the cost.

pcrecord, post: 423192, member: 46460 wrote: If you are gonna use a computer for DJ work, many use Virtual DJ combine with a controler.
Something like this : http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIXDECKExp which comes with it's own audio interface is a good choice but there are many more.

As for recording, again, you weren't very precise on what kind of recording setup you aspire to.
If it's voice only. There's a lot of units that can do the job but yes, the first step is to control the room's accoustics so you don't get bad reverbs/delays many home rooms offer.

So what can you buy at first on which you can add up ?
Here's an exemple : http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SaffPro26
This unit has fair preamps for the price and with the digital inputs you could add better preamps later on.
Exemple, the ISA One + digital converter :
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISAOne
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISAOneCard
The ISA one is one of the lower cost hi-end preamps. Has a ton of clean power and although it's not the most transparent, it sound a lot better than the preamps you find in affordable audio interfaces.

After that you need mic(s)
You could start with a shure SM58 or a SM57 they are affordable and sound good on many instruments, specially in non threated environements.
Along the way, there is many mic choices and it all depends on the vocal itself. A shure KSM44 and a AKG 414 are classics that will mostly never sound bad. If you want a mic just for you, you must go in a store and try them until you find the one that matches your voice. It's the way we do it in the studio. Try them all if you need and end up with the right one instead of what is popular of hyped.. ;)

Thanks, that gives me a general idea. What would be the next step up on the mic pre-amp? Rap, Hip Hop, RnB. Mostly voice and DJ is what I would want to record. My voice is ok but I would mostly be recording other people rapping and singing. My own voice maybe when announcing stuff as a DJ. Creation of beats/songs using MPC and MIDI...that's about it really. I planned on using the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.shure.co…"]Shure[/]="http://www.shure.co…"]Shure[/] SM58S for live stuff (it has an on off switch) and a condenser mic for recording vocals. Most likely I'll be creating a vocal booth. Chances are that I will end up with a variety of mics. I just wanted to use the Rode NT1A to get started. As far as the MSI motherboard I listed...would that work for a dedicated recording PC or should I stick with ASUS for lowest total harmonic distortion?

I'm not clear why you can't use the same computer for recording and djing. The HSMs I was referring to was the Yamaha speakers you mentioned as a potential upgrade from the Eris. I haven't heard the Eris, but the HSMs are pretty basic, and probably not a significant upgrade. Something like the focals, Neumanns, Would be the next step up in class, which would make it truly worth the cost. Otherwise it's probably pretty much a cross grade, that cost you some extra $.

You are correct on why monitors are used. But the problem is that manufacturers don't use a common method for testing, so it's possible to make an un-flat (technical term) speaker test flat. Also, this requires a flat room. Obviously nothing is perfect, but my point was that your monitoring should be comparable to the room for best results. In other words, you aren't hearing what a 5$k pair of flat speakers are actually reproducing, unless the room is also proportionally as good. In other words you don't want to have a turbo charged 12 cylinder race car, that has Honda civic tires.

Not sure if this is appropriate, but if you don't own the rode yet, pm me, I have one I used about 5 times, and it's been in the original box since, I'd be interested in selling it.

DrewZ312, post: 423204, member: 48734 wrote: As far as the MSI motherboard I listed...would that work for a dedicated recording PC or should I stick with ASUS for lowest total harmonic distortion?

Choice of motherboard, CPU, Memory, HDD, Case, Power supply and video card won't change anything to the sound. They will only influence performances, stability and how long your computer will work.

Audio recording chain goes like that : Room acoustics, Instrument/voice, mic, preamp and/or audio interface, converter, monitors and listening room.

A lot of rap artists use the ISA one, with a Akg414 or a Neumann tlm 103 and yes SM57 and 58 are used by the best artists too...
Other option of preamp goes to UA610 or LA610 and many more...

An sm7 is a de facto for hip hop. Close enough is the the 57/58. For your style, ISO, your going to have a very hard time beating the presonus eurekas channel. It's an instant modern type sound, love it for vocals. Got a very very transparent compressor, and a decent eq, which has a usable top end I use to add vocal air. Warning: the eureka is the one. There's a cheaper channel strip, and a brand new channel strip that replaced the eureka. Neither is close, those reflect there modest price tag, where the eureka, far surpasses the couple hundred it fetches. This thing has beat out a lot of other boutique, and standard upper end pres from API and Manley. Again vocal chains are like shoes, and one doesn't fit all, but an sm and the eureka is an excellent place to start for hip hop and r n b. I don't think it can be beat by anything in its price range.

DrewZ312, post: 423181, member: 48734 wrote: Is there any pieces of equipment that are mid-range in price that will still sound professional?

The short answer is No. The longer answer is based on what you consider "mid range price" to be .... If your idea of "mid range" is a total budget of $1000, then no. But if you're idea of spending $1000 on a single channel mic pre, (say, a Grace M101) then yes, you can get professional results.
Now add to that a nice condenser microphone, say an AKG 414 for $900, then yes, this, along with the $1000 preamp, will also get you professional results.
Now add monitors... mid range would be something like Focals; around $1500 a pair, and this will also help you to get professional results.

Now... onto your room acoustics.... don't even think about doing it yourself until you've read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/143545717X/?tag=r06fa-20

Professional results come from professional gear used by professionals that have acquired the knowledge necessary to know the gear. ;)

d.

kmetal, post: 423209, member: 37533 wrote: I'm not clear why you can't use the same computer for recording and djing. The HSMs I was referring to was the Yamaha speakers you mentioned as a potential upgrade from the Eris. I haven't heard the Eris, but the HSMs are pretty basic, and probably not a significant upgrade. Something like the focals, Neumanns, Would be the next step up in class, which would make it truly worth the cost. Otherwise it's probably pretty much a cross grade, that cost you some extra $.

You are correct on why monitors are used. But the problem is that manufacturers don't use a common method for testing, so it's possible to make an un-flat (technical term) speaker test flat. Also, this requires a flat room. Obviously nothing is perfect, but my point was that your monitoring should be comparable to the room for best results. In other words, you aren't hearing what a 5$k pair of flat speakers are actually reproducing, unless the room is also proportionally as good. In other words you don't want to have a turbo charged 12 cylinder race car, that has Honda civic tires.

Not sure if this is appropriate, but if you don't own the rode yet, pm me, I have one I used about 5 times, and it's been in the original box since, I'd be interested in selling it.

Which Neumann's?

pcrecord, post: 423210, member: 46460 wrote: Choice of motherboard, CPU, Memory, HDD, Case, Power supply and video card won't change anything to the sound. They will only influence performances, stability and how long your computer will work.

Audio recording chain goes like that : Room acoustics, Instrument/voice, mic, preamp and/or audio interface, converter, monitors and listening room.

A lot of rap artists use the ISA one, with a Akg414 or a Neumann tlm 103 and yes SM57 and 58 are used by the best artists too...
Other option of preamp goes to UA610 or LA610 and many more...

Thanks, I'll be taking a look at these. If you mean performance, stability, and longevity of the PC itself then I know what to do. But if you mean something different then please clarify!

kmetal, post: 423211, member: 37533 wrote: An sm7 is a de facto for hip hop. Close enough is the the 57/58. For your style, ISO, your going to have a very hard time beating the presonus eurekas channel. It's an instant modern type sound, love it for vocals. Got a very very transparent compressor, and a decent eq, which has a usable top end I use to add vocal air. Warning: the eureka is the one. There's a cheaper channel strip, and a brand new channel strip that replaced the eureka. Neither is close, those reflect there modest price tag, where the eureka, far surpasses the couple hundred it fetches. This thing has beat out a lot of other boutique, and standard upper end pres from API and Manley. Again vocal chains are like shoes, and one doesn't fit all, but an sm and the eureka is an excellent place to start for hip hop and r n b. I don't think it can be beat by anything in its price range.

The PreSonus Eureka was discontinued though, so what would be comparable or better? Thanks.

DonnyThompson, post: 423218, member: 46114 wrote: The short answer is No. The longer answer is based on what you consider "mid range price" to be .... If your idea of "mid range" is a total budget of $1000, then no. But if you're idea of spending $1000 on a single channel mic pre, (say, a Grace M101) then yes, you can get professional results.
Now add to that a nice condenser microphone, say an AKG 414 for $900, then yes, this, along with the $1000 preamp, will also get you professional results.
Now add monitors... mid range would be something like Focals; around $1500 a pair, and this will also help you to get professional results.

Now... onto your room acoustics.... don't even think about doing it yourself until you've read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/143545717X/?tag=r06fa-20

Professional results come from professional gear used by professionals that have acquired the knowledge necessary to know the gear. ;)

d.

Thank you for the gear links and book link, I will read up on it. My plan was to just get up and running with as good of a home studio as I can afford, practice, study, possibly even take some classes in recording, and then start upgrading. I need equipment that is good enough to practice with and make quality recordings...otherwise what would be the point?! But does everybody start out with equipment that costs thousands? If I'm going to spend $1000 on a mic pre with only one channel then I would rather spend more and have at least 2 channels! Maybe I should start with near-professional sounding equiment and see if I can develop recording talent first? So far it's sounding as if I need to be Tony Montana in order to afford everything! : )

DrewZ312, post: 423279, member: 48734 wrote: The PreSonus Eureka was discontinued though, so what would be comparable or better? Thanks.

You can find used one on eBay. But I think this one is the direct replacement : http://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-Channel
A step up from it would be http://www.presonus.com/products/RC-500

ok thank you, fairly affordable way to go as far as mic and pre

DrewZ312, post: 423284, member: 48734 wrote: ok thank you, fairly affordable way to go as far as mic and pre

There is nothing wrong to start slow with units that can be thrusted even tho they are not the best ones. You get to know how they work and learn alot, specially with finding ways to maximise their use. I still have 2 sm57 after 20years they are nearly undestructable and sound ok on many sources. They even shine more when used with highend pre. At 100$ or so, it's a no brainer (Watch out for poor copies tho) Real ones can even be bought at futureshop or bestbuy these days.

Then same for preamps, the eureka or studio channel are good for the price. The [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.sweetwat…"]ART Pro MPA II[/]="http://www.sweetwat…"]ART Pro MPA II[/] also hold a great value and many keep them for years.

Of course they won't sound like the big thing. Affordable preamps need to be worked a bit harder to know the sweet spot that will give you a good sound, but many are still workable. With some high end, you just power them and get THE sound right away ;)

Some day, if your budget allow and you are still motivated and passionnate about recording, you could turn to the big deal.
UA La-610, Great River MP-2NV, Millennia M-2b, Neve or copies..

i believe you should take a different tack and go cheap.

something like a used M Audio Fastrack Pro that you can buy on E Blah for under $100 will do what you want just fine. get an SM7 or a 414 and your in for under 1K. if you can't afford those mics, you will be surprised how far an SM 58 will get you. seeing as you will be primarily doing the DJ thing, you can load your music files digitally so the requirement for HD conversion is negligible.

i would cheap out and wait until you are sure you want to go into it deeper. a lot of guys get started in this and then have to cash out soon after. C/L is full of ads from people who discovered they don't have the financial fortitude or the passion/ drive to make large expenditures on what is basically a hobby. save the cash, buy some Dow/Jones industrial Average funds and sit on them. you will see a much better return on your money. there's an old adage, "How do you make a million dollars in the studio business? Start with 2 million."

Kurt Foster, post: 423290, member: 7836 wrote: "How do you make a million dollars in the studio business? Start with 2 million."

LOL! I am soooo gonna steal that one. ;)

Music has been a passion for me my whole life. I want to get gear that's good enough to produce some solid recordings. But I will also need to study, practice, and learn as I go. I have always been an idea guy and chances are that the more I get into it, the more I will try to squeeze out of it and push myself to get better at it. I appreciate all the help, advice, and suggestions from all of you. It gives me an idea of what I will need to strive for. Thanks to all of you again. Very appreciated.

Like I said in my other response, those new presonus channels are not a good deal. ONLY the eureka which are about 200 used, are worth it. Otherwise your not getting an actual superior product for the money, and your wasting your money. Imo. It's got a transformer coupled pre amp section, which none of the others do. The magic of the eureka is that it exceeds its price point by quite a lot. Presonus makes good gear, and nothing they make is 'bad', bur the only thing they make that is special, in my book is the eureka. It's not the best thing ever, but impossible to beat for the price, and and couldn't be a better first pre amp/channel strip.

The Neuman kh-120a $750 ea, have a good reputation. Those are what I was talking about as one of the types ofnext level monitors to what you have.

DrewZ312, post: 423303, member: 48734 wrote: Music has been a passion for me my whole life. I want to get gear that's good enough to produce some solid recordings. But I will also need to study, practice, and learn as I go. I have always been an idea guy and chances are that the more I get into it, the more I will try to squeeze out of it and push myself to get better at it. I appreciate all the help, advice, and suggestions from all of you. It gives me an idea of what I will need to strive for. Thanks to all of you again. Very appreciated.

I've been following this whole thread and I'm at the stage where I just gotta say something because it feels like we are on a merry-go-round here...

It is absolutely meaningless at this stage to be talking gear with you beyond what you need or want to buy immediately to do what you need or want to do right now (or in the next six to twelve months). You need to start recording --- NOW. You need a good mic and an interface. What's your budget for those RIGHT NOW? You've already got a computer/laptop - use it/them. A single good mic and decent entry level interface will take you a long long time to outgrown. Got speakers or monitors? Use 'em. Need some - go buy some -- then start recording. Because at this stage you don't have any skills -- and super pro, or top shelf gear is not going to change that. You have to build up skills and a frame of reference with which to evaluate your needs and understand them. You don't know what pro is yet and you wont until you are some distance down the road into your journey.

Product cycles for new gear right now are very short -- 1 or 2 years max (sometimes less) and they are replaced by New models, with at times better or/and cheaper parts with (usually) enhanced functionality -- so unless you say in the next 12 months or 18 months I have XXX dollars available to spend (and will spend them) in three increments ( ie XXX every 6 months) then to talk money or gear is a waste of time --- particularly because you don't even "know" what it is or how to use it yet and that the landscape will have changed gear wise by the time you do know

One of the best strategies to have with respect to buying gear is getting to the point where your needs and understanding of those needs empower you to answer the question for yourself with respect to what's next.... There is still enormous headroom for you in entry level gear that it wont limit the quality of what you do or produce in the next 6 to 12 months --- you will be the factor that limits your end product -- not your gear.

You've got to be reasonable - you desire to make pro recordings - but that doesn't happen because you have pro gear. Pro recordings don't happen out of the box -- the road to pro recordings in a PROCESS -- it's a road you must travel...

But every journey has to start ---- so you need to start. Get some gear and start. Now.

A non-musical example from my life: In my very early 20's - after having sustained an injury that ended the idea of a musical career for me and having to drop out of a classical music degree program I decided I needed to travel. Growing up (in high school and later) I had all kinds of friends and acquaintances that talked about travel - how they were going to do it -- what they were going to do -- planning and talking for years..... I decided to travel -- asked a few questions of people that had done it -- went down to MEC (like REI) and bought a backpack - came home and got some money together -- got on a plane with an open route round-the-world ticket, and found myself in Jakarta with a surf board and a guidebook and the general idea that there was good apparently good surf in Bali...

Those friends and people that talked about travel and spent endless years planning and delaying making the decision -- trying to pick destinations and hiking boots, and waiting for different or newer models of backpacks to be released, or new editions of guidebooks, or more money, and a travel companion? --- they never ever hit the road --- and the questions I would get asked by them years later was "How did you do it?" -- and the answer was easy -- "I got on a plane a left - you never did".

So in this thread I hear echos of those guys who spent every year in the outdoors store asking about tents and hiking boots and walking poles.... talking about trekking and why they needed the best boot because they wanted to go to all these places ------- and the truth was I stood on a mountain in Nepal in a flannel jacket and a pair of Doc Martins gazing at Mt. Everest with my naked eye while they were still at home. I'd consider that pretty damn pro.

So I'd say -- if you want to get to the equivalent of Mt. Everest in music recording, you gotta get on the road -- the journey to the mountain might take years. You don't get your mountaineering equipment until you have the skill set to climb and you are at the base of the mountain and know yourself what you need.

Refocus this thread to what you are literally going to go out this next weekend to buy so you can start recording.... Just my recommendation.... I just want you to get on the road so you can feel what I feel right now as I undertake my own recording journey.

Respectfully
Rob

DogsoverLava, post: 423561, member: 48175 wrote: I've been following this whole thread and I'm at the stage where I just gotta say something because it feels like we are on a merry-go-round here...

It is absolutely meaningless at this stage to be talking gear with you beyond what you need or want to buy immediately to do what you need or want to do right now (or in the next six to twelve months). You need to start recording --- NOW. You need a good mic and an interface. What's your budget for those RIGHT NOW? You've already got a computer/laptop - use it/them. A single good mic and decent entry level interface will take you a long long time to outgrown. Got speakers or monitors? Use 'em. Need some - go buy some -- then start recording. Because at this stage you don't have any skills -- and super pro, or top shelf gear is not going to change that. You have to build up skills and a frame of reference with which to evaluate your needs and understand them. You don't know what pro is yet and you wont until you are some distance down the road into your journey.

Product cycles for new gear right now are very short -- 1 or 2 years max (sometimes less) and they are replaced by New models, with at times better or/and cheaper parts with (usually) enhanced functionality -- so unless you say in the next 12 months or 18 months I have XXX dollars available to spend (and will spend them) in three increments ( ie XXX every 6 months) then to talk money or gear is a waste of time --- particularly because you don't even "know" what it is or how to use it yet and that the landscape will have changed gear wise by the time you do know

One of the best strategies to have with respect to buying gear is getting to the point where your needs and understanding of those needs empower you to answer the question for yourself with respect to what's next.... There is still enormous headroom for you in entry level gear that it wont limit the quality of what you do or produce in the next 6 to 12 months --- you will be the factor that limits your end product -- not your gear.

You've got to be reasonable - you desire to make pro recordings - but that doesn't happen because you have pro gear. Pro recordings don't happen out of the box -- the road to pro recordings in a PROCESS -- it's a road you must travel...

But every journey has to start ---- so you need to start. Get some gear and start. Now.

A non-musical example from my life: In my very early 20's - after having sustained an injury that ended the idea of a musical career for me and having to drop out of a classical music degree program I decided I needed to travel. Growing up (in high school and later) I had all kinds of friends and acquaintances that talked about travel - how they were going to do it -- what they were going to do -- planning and talking for years..... I decided to travel -- asked a few questions of people that had done it -- went down to MEC (like REI) and bought a backpack - came home and got some money together -- got on a plane with an open route round-the-world ticket, and found myself in Jakarta with a surf board and a guidebook and the general idea that there was good apparently good surf in Bali...

Those friends and people that talked about travel and spent endless years planning and delaying making the decision -- trying to pick destinations and hiking boots, and waiting for different or newer models of backpacks to be released, or new editions of guidebooks, or more money, and a travel companion? --- they never ever hit the road --- and the questions I would get asked by them years later was "How did you do it?" -- and the answer was easy -- "I got on a plane a left - you never did".

So in this thread I hear echos of those guys who spent every year in the outdoors store asking about tents and hiking boots and walking poles.... talking about trekking and why they needed the best boot because they wanted to go to all these places ------- and the truth was I stood on a mountain in Nepal in a flannel jacket and a pair of Doc Martins gazing at Mt. Everest with my naked eye while they were still at home. I'd consider that pretty damn pro.

So I'd say -- if you want to get to the equivalent of Mt. Everest in music recording, you gotta get on the road -- the journey to the mountain might take years. You don't get your mountaineering equipment until you have the skill set to climb and you are at the base of the mountain and know yourself what you need.

Refocus this thread to what you are literally going to go out this next weekend to buy so you can start recording.... Just my recommendation.... I just want you to get on the road so you can feel what I feel right now as I undertake my own recording journey.

Respectfully
Rob

OK!...really I have been recording NON-professionally on and off for 30 years. This is DJ stuff, mixes, bands, vocals, instruments, etc. I cannot claim to be a professional because of having SOME recording experience and so I don't. I guess maybe you could say that I will have a basic understanding and somewhat limited knowledge. For DJ-ing, as I stated earlier, I have never attempted to be a PC DJ. Likewise, this will also be my first attempt at better/higher quality recording.

SO...If there is gear that I should be practicing on NOW, or BEFORE I buy professional grade gear then recommend it. I will be taking classes in Chicago and I would like to have some good quality gear to record with as I learn as much as I possibly can. If you still think that professional grade recording gear will be obsolete by the time I learn how to use it, then recommend good practice gear.

I like to plan everything I buy and I will never buy anything so spontaneously or spur of the moment as next weekend. Financial predicaments have forced me to sell off my equipment multiple times but I will soon be in a much better and stable financial situation and so I came here for advice for good gear...please let me worry about the part of whether or not I know what to do with it!

I can appreciate what you are saying though and thank you for the input.

Respectfully,
DrewZ

you know the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". ?

well that applies here.

op has been given plenty of good advice and persists in thinking there is a "magic bullet" solution. there's not.

you can spend $700 or you can spend $5000. tell us which you are ready to part with and then we can go from there.

i said this before. get a decent set of monitors and a nice mic like a SM7 or a 421. good transducers are the key. then buy a used interface of some online auction site. you're in for $700.

in the end the majority of the things you are recording will be samples and loops. all that stuff has been pre amped / miced / eq'ed and mastered already. rap vocals don't need great sound, in fact it seems, the worse it sounds, the more people who like that stuff like it. get a 58 and smile.

i would be much more concerned if you were recording virtuoso classical guitars or string sections.

Nice one kurt. Words of advice.

Kurt Foster, post: 423567, member: 7836 wrote: you know the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". ?

well that applies here.

op has been given plenty of good advice and persists in thinking there is a "magic bullet" solution. there's not.

you can spend $700 or you can spend $5000. tell us which you are ready to part with and then we can go from there.

i said this before. get a decent set of monitors and a nice mic like a SM7 or a 421. good transducers are the key. then buy a used interface of some online auction site. you're in for $700.

in the end the majority of the things you are recording will be samples and loops. all that stuff has been pre amped / miced / eq'ed and mastered already. rap vocals don't need great sound, in fact it seems, the worse it sounds, the more people who like that stuff like it. get a 58 and smile.

i would be much more concerned if you were recording virtuoso classical guitars or string sections.

I was simply responding to what was being said. I was really trying to be done with this post because I HAVE been given a lot of good advice...but now comes the inevitable criticism that forums are so famous for...can't you please just let the post RIP? I'm not ONLY doing rap either, RnB is actual singing. Is insulting someone the only way you can feel superior?

This is what I decided for vocals (my "Magic Bullet"):

Microphones - Rode NT1A, Shure SM57 and Neumann TLM102
Pre-amps - Neve 1073 and Neve 1081
Audio Interface - RME Babyface
Monitors - Neumann KH 120

So you can continue insulting me or let the post RIP, I would prefer to just let it die without the insults.

DrewZ312, post: 423569, member: 48734 wrote: I was simply responding to what was being said. I was really trying to be done with this post because I HAVE been given a lot of good advice...but now comes the inevitable criticism that forums are so famous for...can't you please just let the post RIP?

My apologies if I wasn't sensitive to your other posts.I'm not following all this. My comment and "like" here was based solely on kurt's last response as being good advice here

you can spend $700 or you can spend $5000. tell us which you are ready to part with and then we can go from there.

i said this before. get a decent set of monitors and a nice mic like a [="http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/sm/sm7b-vocal-microphone"]SM7[/]="http://www.shure.co…"]SM7[/] or a [[url=http://="http://www.sennheis…"]421[/]="http://www.sennheis…"]421[/]. good transducers are the key. then buy a used interface of some online auction site. you're in for $700.

in the end the majority of the things you are recording will be samples and loops. all that stuff has been pre amped / miced / eq'ed and mastered already. rap vocals don't need great sound, in fact it seems, the worse it sounds, the more people who like that stuff like it. get a 58 and smile.

i would be much more concerned if you were recording virtuoso classical guitars or string sections.

DrewZ312, post: 423569, member: 48734 wrote: So you can continue insulting me or let the post RIP, I would prefer to just let it die without the insults.

This sounds very sincere, would you like me to close this thread, Drew?

audiokid, post: 423571, member: 1 wrote: My apologies if I wasn't sensitive to your other posts.I'm not following all this. My comment and "like" here was based solely on kurt's last response as being good advice here

This sounds very sincere, would you like me to close this thread, Drew?

Yes please do, and thank you sir!

DrewZ312, post: 423566, member: 48734 wrote: OK!...really I have been recording NON-professionally on and off for 30 years. This is DJ stuff, mixes, bands, vocals, instruments, etc. I cannot claim to be a professional because of having SOME recording experience and so I don't. I guess maybe you could say that I will have a basic understanding and somewhat limited knowledge. For DJ-ing, as I stated earlier, I have never attempted to be a PC DJ. Likewise, this will also be my first attempt at better/higher quality recording.

SO...If there is gear that I should be practicing on NOW, or BEFORE I buy professional grade gear then recommend it. I will be taking classes in Chicago and I would like to have some good quality gear to record with as I learn as much as I possibly can. If you still think that professional grade recording gear will be obsolete by the time I learn how to use it, then recommend good practice gear.

I like to plan everything I buy and I will never buy anything so spontaneously or spur of the moment as next weekend. Financial predicaments have forced me to sell off my equipment multiple times but I will soon be in a much better and stable financial situation and so I came here for advice for good gear...please let me worry about the part of whether or not I know what to do with it!

I can appreciate what you are saying though and thank you for the input.

Respectfully,
DrewZ

Drew -- I'm going to go with what Kurt said above -- get a SM58 for $100, a good used interface for $200, some speakers and start recording.... Get the Eureka that was recommended - use your existing PC - --- or get that little Quad capture ---- It doesn't matter --- start recording and posting your recordings here for critique. By the time you get to a skill level and develop your ear to know the difference between pro and not pro, the gear available to you to buy will be totally different....

You've yet to define your budget and the time frame attached to both the availability of that money and when you want to start doing the thing you want to do. You can start now (and should start now) with less than $1k worth of gear ---- you can make great recordings with that gear --- and the thing to stress is that the gear itself wont impede your progress or limit you --- that will be you and your learning curve.

I go back to my example -- I've literally stood on a mountaintop looking at the summit of Mt. Everest (I was 24) --- but when I was 20 I had friends that endlessly planned to travel --- doing research.... what hiking boot to buy --- what special tent should they buy --- what places they were going to go - what route and guesthouses - endless planning ----- and the point is - there's always a better boot or tent or whatever just around the corner - just out of reach.... you gotta get out the door ---- it's not the fact they didn't find the best boot that kept them off the mountain -- it's that they didn't get out their front door.

As a consultant -- people come to me and say: I want to do X --- At Y time, and have Z dollars available --- then ask the question - can I do it? If the answer is yes -- the next question is "Then tell me how - what's the recipe....". If the answer is no -- then we either look at X and modify X (the What they want to do) or the Y (the time they want to do it) or the Z -- (the money or resources available to them). It's just an equation.... Then we provide the new recipe. The problem is that X Y Z and the equation for X Y and Z exist within time ---- time (clock time) is a variable that influences all those factors so the recipe and equation does not stay in balance over time... that's why you can't plan today for something you want to do in 5 years -- because by the time you get there all the conditions will have changed.... You don't pick out the new car you want to buy today if you wont be buying it for 5 years... and you don't buy a car 5 years from now if you need or want to drive to the market tomorrow --

Last point to make --- the reason you are getting some push back here is that these threads are not about you specifically -- there's an audience listening and reading ---- there are 50 guys like you that have the exact same questions reading this -- I'm actually one of those guys myself. So points that keep being reinforced to you - even stuff you are resisting -- well there's a teaching moment here for others as well so as much as I'm talking to you --- I'm actually talking to another guy who's like you but is not you that is following this thread at home..

But as for specifics - What Kurt said is what I'd do right now -- and run with that for a year and then reassess.

I can see the OP is trying to get out of this one gracefully, while we all are simply just doing what we do here, helping. :love:

I don't normally close a thread but I have a feeling, he is worth saving.
To respect the OP on this one, I think he gets it and I respect that so I think this one is a wrap.

Cheers!

You need Ableton Live, Push and interface, PC and a bit of gear. Done.
Check it out.