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anonymous 29 June 2002

Ok, I have a friend who will be building his system shortly. Any suggestions for a soundcard in that $600-$800 range? I have a SB Audigy Platinum, and after using it for a while, we have come to the conclusion that we need more I/O's. Any input toward a solution would be killer.

Latrz,
O

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Opus2000 Sat, 06/29/2002 - 10:04

Phalic...telling someone RME is great but why? M'kay?
Blutone....what is it you need for ins and outs? How many? Do you need analog and digital? or just analog or just digital?
Couple of cards may be a good choice here..
Echoaudio.com with the Mona...4 XLR/1/4" inputs plus an adat optical in..plus Midi and SPDIF as well...
Delta 1010 or other ones(altho the Delta cards are really brittle on the high end)
let us know what exactly you need or want from a card
Opus

anonymous Mon, 07/01/2002 - 14:23

My friend and I mostly need the extra Ins. We'll be recording mostly analog jam sessions(guitar, bass, 3-4 vocals, maybe throw a couple mics at the drums...LOL). I do plan to get a midi controller for my guitar. So, I will need some midi hook-ups. I don't know the first thing about SPDIF(even though my Audigy has them).

I went to the MOTU site but they're a little pricey for my our budget right now. I've heard a lot of poeple say good things about MOTU and for that price, even if it sucked, I'd still say I loved it...LOL

Our projects consist of mostly analog tracks, but we don't want to limit ourselves. Does this help give you a better idea of what I need? My other friend(the one who built my rig) knows a lot about gaming systems, but not a lot about DAW systems. Being so new to DAW recording, I'm learning that the Audigy wasn't my best choice. That's why I'm asking you guys. Thanks for the help.

Latrz,
O

anonymous Mon, 07/01/2002 - 14:32

This may be heresy in this forum but you might try an outboard mixer... I use a mackie 1402vlz, an excellent mixer for the price w/ high quality pre's, and only need one input to the computer. Additionally, it gives much greater control over the sound being input as well, especially if you have outboard processors.

anonymous Mon, 07/01/2002 - 21:32

I'm not really opposed to the idea of an outboard, but that won't necessarily fix me up. If I had a 48 channel outboard, my soundcard(SB Audigy Platinum) still only has one input to record from. I want to be able to record each input to individual tracks. I could use an outboard on the drums becuase, obviously, I'd want those on the same track anyway. Basically, the Audigy limits me to recording one track at a time. :mad: I hate limitations.

Pounding out a track at a time is O.K. for studio work. But, I got a feelin' it would mess a live jam all to hell....LOL.

Latrz,
O

anonymous Mon, 07/01/2002 - 21:27

I am generally not a fan of alesis stuff. For that price range check out behringer and mackie before you decide what to get. You definately need mic preamps cuz the sound card inputs are line level.

The moto stuff has preamps built in. But only go with that if you have a mac.

I think the ardvarck stuff might have mic pres too.

d./

Opus2000 Tue, 07/02/2002 - 07:42

Well, if you got the Motu 24i you still need an external Mic pre..the 24i is analog ins via 1/4"..feeding a mic into it wouldn't give you decent levels...I use a 1402 as my external mixer/mic pre(using direct outs not going through the mackie circuitry) and it's a great alternative...plus I can feed my multiple outs from my card to it as well..
I would stay away from Alesis to be honest..not that great of sounding gear. Plus they tend to break more often.
Opus

anonymous Thu, 07/04/2002 - 20:01

Originally posted by Opus2000:

A I use a 1402 as my external mixer/mic pre(using direct outs not going through the mackie circuitry)

B I would stay away from Alesis to be honest..not that great of sounding gear. Plus they tend to break more often.
Opus

A) How is it not going through the mackie circuitry?

B) You are damn straight. :D

Chuck Meo Sat, 07/06/2002 - 08:46

I'm in the process of speccing a DAW myself so I've been following similar threads to this in several forums.

It seems to me there are two basic schools of thought, one crew preferring an outboard desk and the other not.

Whether or not you choose an outboard desk, for multitracking with traditional bands esp. with drum kits, you'd have to get at least a four (e.g. mona) or eight (1010, q10, c-port) channel capable card or combo.

So the question: I don't want to buy an outboard desk as well--does anyone have recommendations for the software and hardware for a 'virtual desk' only config, allowing simultaneous 8 balanced inputs, I/O hardware price range to say $1000 USD max?

The range of offerings on the market now is quite bewildering, and the more I read the more confused I'm getting, since within the various price bands there doesn't seem to be much difference--on paper.

I'd like to hear what practitioners think (and use). I'm not a Mac user, and currently I'm on w98se but that is totally movable. I already have a 930 Mhz genuine intel with a Via chipset (not sure which one but I see this may be an issue as well).

Leaving that aside--PCs are cheap after all--what works out there for general purpose recording, emphasis on your basic guitar band?

Chuck

anonymous Sun, 07/07/2002 - 22:10

Again, I vote for the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.mackie.c…"]mackie 1402vlz pro[/]="http://www.mackie.c…"]mackie 1402vlz pro[/] . Hmmm Opus it sounds like we have alot of the same equipment... Great choice. Best mic pre's for the money, and I read somewhere an article detailing tests between the xdr pre's and the WAY highend models in the thousands, and the mackie sounded better than most and WAY better for the money! And the "mackie circuits" can be bypassed but I use mine fully as a mixer with controlled effects with great satisfaction. I believe outboard gear can be used in conjunction with your daw with great results, and it certainly gives more flexibility for adding effects and sound reinforcement. Besides, if you ever want to use instruments or mics without your computer, your gonna need a mixer. You won't have many options if your computer or soundcard go down.
I really don't think you will find a better option for the money than 1402 + US428... get a better soundcard if you really want one, but the us428 is at least a great start. And that gives you mixer(s) with 6 xdr pre's totalling 16 inputs, a controller surface and soundcard capability including digital in/out and 2 sets of midi in and out... for right at $1000, or alot less on ebay! I don't think you'll find a better deal... What do you think Opus? You've got the same gear + soundcard. Is there a better way for $1000?
Hope I was of help.
Chris :cool:

Opus2000 Mon, 07/08/2002 - 12:35

Chris
Yes, very similar gear indeed but I use an Echo Layla20 for my main audio at the present moment(until I can get the Trak2 and my RME Card back!)
But yes, using the Mackie and a 428 is a great combination for any home DAW user. I definately reccomend the 1402 vs the 1202 since I like faders and not rotary knobs for main fader levels!!
ljp....sound blabber...are you nuts! lmao!
Now..Chuck,
Aardvark, Echo and Delta cards all have an internal software mixer to help route signals to where you need them but it's really about the software program you use and how flexible it is in routing and so forth
Opus

anonymous Mon, 07/08/2002 - 20:15

Thanks for that link Chris. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. Can you get me a link to some info on the 428 as well?

ljp....sound blabber...are you nuts!

LMAO...Opus, you kill me man.

llornkcor2, I have a SB Audigy Platinum. Don't get me wrong. I like my soundcard, but there's no way to record more than one instrument at a time to separate tracks. That's why I started this thread. ;)

anonymous Tue, 07/09/2002 - 10:52

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.tascam.c…"]us428[/]="http://www.tascam.c…"]us428[/]
I'm glad to help Blue, but it sounds like you may be at the beginning stages of your home recording journey, and I'm far from expert on any of this, but what I do know is it aint easy! I'm not familiar w/ systems that allow simultaneous multitrack recording, but I have enough of a challenge going a track at a time. You might want to make sure you can run before you try to fly. Normally, the more expensive and elaborate the gear gets the higher the learning curve is. I would advise getting proficient at whatever piece of software doing one track at a time before trying multiples. Maybe I'm just slow, but there's not much in this world that will make you feel more stupid than paying a bunch of money for a piece gear that's smarter than you/we are! Believe me I've been there! What am I talking about! I'm still there!

I like doing things differently. You know they say having limitations brings out creativity and sometimes you can produce techniques and results otherwise overlooked.
Like I would say... Tell all your buddies to go out and spend $100-$300 on their own minidisc recorders, then when you jam, everybody hits record at the same time and play... Voila! Then you have each instrument tracked individually to do with whatever you please. I know it sounds kinda dumb to people that REALLY know their shit as far as recording into a daw all at once, but they've got a whole lot more expertise than we do. Plus, you could record anywhere and input the tracks to any piece of software, sampler, etc.. It would also save resources on your pc. Remember, to record all those tracks at once you better have an anus or better. Or IS there anything better than a new ANUS? HAHAHA
Good Luck! :cool:

Opus2000 Tue, 07/09/2002 - 11:56

Originally posted by The MIDI Room:
By the way, I'll put dual Athlon DAW up against the new ANUS any day. Ha haaaaa ;)

That there is fighting words my friend!! lmao!!
I would like to compare them tho one of these days..I'm sure Dual systems definately rock but there are certain issues that need to be addressed with dual systems...latency for one..from all the posts I've read the lowest you can go is 23ms...I've been waiting for someone to clarify whether that's true or not..also compatibilty with certain audio cards is key as well..as we all know Motu sucks for that aspect..RME is fine..don't know about Echo or aardvark...
Opus

themidiroom Tue, 07/09/2002 - 12:04

That there is fighting words my friend!! lmao!!

Ha ha Put 'em up! Actually, I did dial in the lowest latency setting. It was 10ms. Granted, doing this ran the crap out of the CPUs. I had a 36 track project up with parametric eq and compression on just about every track and a reverb. It didn't crash however. I never track using the DAW input monitoring, I always use the monitoring from my Echo card. I can then route it through my console and add FX for the headphone ***.

anonymous Tue, 07/09/2002 - 23:02

Chris, you hit the nail on the head. When it comes to multi-track recording I put the "new" in "greenhorn". What?! Whataya mean there's no "new" in "greenhorn"? Anyway, here's the skinny on my rig.

- Processor(s) -
Model: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
Speed: 1.40GHz
Model Number: 1400 (estimated)
Performance Rating: PR1862 (estimated)
L2 On-board Cache: 256kB ECC synchronous write-back

- Mainboard and BIOS -
Bus(es): ISA AGP PCI IMB USB FireWire(1394) SMBus/i2c
MP Support: 1 CPU(s)
System BIOS: American Megatrends Inc. 07.00T
Mainboard: MSI MS-6380
System Chipset: VIA Technologies Inc VT8366 Apollo KT266 CPU to PCI
Bridge
Front Side Bus Speed: 2x 133MHz (266MHz data rate)
Installed Memory: 256MB DDR-SDRAM
Memory Bus Speed: 2x 133MHz (266MHz data rate)

- Video System -
Monitor/Panel: MAG 986FS
Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce3 Ti 200

- MultiMedia Device(s) -
Device: Standard Game Port
Device: Creative SB Audigy
Device: Creative Game Port
Device: Avance AC'97 Audio for VIA (R) Audio Controller

- Operating System(s) -
Windows System: Microsoft Windows 2002 XP Professional Workstation Ver
5.01.2600

It ain't ANUS, but it ain't RECTALL either...LOL. So, I got curious as to what it could do. I opened up 16 audio tracks in Sonar. Then, I proceeded to assign reverb and compression to each track. Now Opus, I know by now your yawning...LOL, but I found this tiring. The reason being, that I can't just throw a plug in there. Nooooo, not me. I have to adjust the settings on each one to what I think sounds good. Even for the purpose of this test. Call me a freak. Just don't caLl mE cRazY yUO....GUY.

Whooh, now that that's out of my system.... I tested it just to see where I was at this point. I had some room left, so....get this. I threw Izotope Ozone in the main(Which will add a good 30% to the workload of any CPU). Smooth sailin'. :D I didn't think about it untill I was done, but I did this on my user account. Which is XP in all it's glory. All the Fisher-Price bells and whistles on parade. The best my SB Audigy can do is 16/48. I think a new soundcard might do me some good. 16 tracks will do just fine. Hell, 8 would be kool. I realize there will be a learning curve to any new equipment, but I feel I'm up to the challenge. *pft* *pft* *jab* *cross* Where's Tyson? Let me at'em. I think I'm ready to *** it up. ;)

Latrz,
O

anonymous Tue, 07/09/2002 - 23:06

To everyone that uses or has used an RME, i have never touched one and would like to know if someone can tell me how they perform on XP pro and if possible how they perform in sonar 2.0. Other things i would like to know are price and would any of you recomend over echo. I'm currently using echo but debating if i should stay with them when i build my new system which will be a dual MP system.

oh and to blutone, echo and delta are great cards to start off with. both companies can give you 24/96 at a good price.

themidiroom Wed, 07/10/2002 - 08:53

I briefly looked at the RME cards. For one, their website is pretty darned confusing. The Echo cards are cool. I started off with a Gina24, but I think I'm going to start using a MOTU firewire interface and get some extra I/O. Hey Flex, good luck with your new system. I'm running Dual Athlon MP2000+ CPUs and it's a screamer. :D

Chuck Meo Wed, 07/10/2002 - 23:25

Originally posted by Opus2000:
Chris
Now..Chuck,
Aardvark, Echo and Delta cards all have an internal software ***er to help route signals to where you need them but it's really about the software program you use and how flexible it is in routing and so forth
Opus

Thanks opus, I'm actually looking at a c-port or other hoontech with more balanced ins...
do hoontechs also support flexible routing?

And since this seems to be what I need, what software has the best (i.e. reliable, configurable, intuitive if possible) routing support?

The software does indeed seem to be the key to whole thing. As an old-time analog hacker, with primarily live sound experience, I am expecting a near vertical learning curve anyway--business as usual!

Chuck

themidiroom Thu, 07/11/2002 - 08:33

Hey, I went out and bought that MOTU 828 audio interface. I must say it's a pretty nice unit. The install went very well (exept for a couple lines of poorly written instructions) ha ha
Opus, thanks for the tip on the fire wire card. I bought the Adaptec model; resonably price, a name I trust, and it uses the T.I. controller chip.
I'm a happy recording camper once again. :D

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