Dr. Alan , have you looked at monitors by Alesis , Behringer , or Yamaha ? These manufacturers offer a few buget level systems. Behringer has the Truth series. Alesis has the M1 mk2 series. And Yamaha has the MPS series. These systems average about $350 - $400. I'm pretty sure there are a few others that I've skipped over , but your milage may vary. Oh and by the way , the models I mentioned are bi-amped.

[ August 21, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: dabmeister17 ]

Buy a well-treated set of something used.

You can get a pair of Tannoy Reveal (passives) for about $200 on ebay. I used to have a pair (my first set of real nearfields) and they worked really well. I can't think of an all-around better starter monitor.

Just to give you an idea of the "used" philosophy: I bought (and still have) a pair of mid-80's Yamaha NS-200Ma's for $279 (plus shipping). These are 3-way, 10" woofers, and 50-lbs each. While not perfect, they are at least as good as many newer monitors that would easily have cost me 2.5 times as much that are equally not perfect. A pair of NS-10's (which I have and love) starts, used, at about 400-500. The 200Ma's are more versatile and half the price.

Look for used Yamaha, JBL, Tannoy.

best-
.nick

Hey guys , I see both you Dr. Alan & Million valve are local "cats". For the last 5 days , I've been stuck finishing a project for a client auditioning for the "American Idol" contest coming up this weekend. And I'll say this as a follow up to my previous response. I use a pair of bi-amped Event PS-8s that don't give you that "ear fatigue" after sitting up for hours editing. Dr. Alan I assume you opt for a more portable setup 'cause maybe your just getting started or is this a secondary , practice setup ? The reason I inquired , is because I graduated from a portastudio (Tascams 688 midistudio) which offered a lot of features for a unit of it's caliber. The native audio or TDM stuff has so much more to offer. If interested , I can help to get you started.

I think Kurt mentioned soemthing about Yamaha MSP5/10, can not remember now.

I do like the Alesis Monitor Ones. Take a look at ebay, you may also find a pair of Dynaudio BM5´s!

For what it's worth, I think the Monitor Ones are incredibly thin. I'd not want to have those as my only monitors.

I read Kurt's review of the new Yamahas. I also remember reading somewhere that when you turn up the volume a bit the dual front ports are constantly puffing air into your face and ears.

.nick

I bought a pair of msp5's on ebay, and while I'm not a seasoned recording vet, I have been extremely impressed and happy with the way they sound. They also translate very well, and they DON'T puff air in your face. If you crank them up, and I mean LOUD, then you will feel a bit of air coming out, but if you need to mix at these levels, I'd say it's time to start thinking about a new line of work. I just turned them way up before typing this, with a Puddle of Mudd CD, and it was hurting my ears, and barely blowing on my face, from about three feet away.

Get a pair of used Yamaha NS-10s. They are not too expensive and one of the best ever.

thx,

chris

million valve, are you sure we are talking about the same monitors? aren´t ya reffering to Point Seven? Man, the Monitor Ones are very heavy for their size.

ACB-

The grayish/bluish Monitor Ones. Our sound guy at work has a pair and I keep telling him to just lose them.

Then again, by saying that, I guess it just goes to show that it's a matter of taste. Their (not much) low end is very reminiscent of NS-10's. Comapre them with some Reveals and I think you'll know what I mean.

Not arguing, just saying.

:)

.nick

I was so happy when I bought a pair of Yamaha NS-10s just after they stop making them and they became scarce. But I was more happy when I got rid of them.
Hey some like them, I don't.

Nick

Also not mentioned, are the Yorkville YSM1P active near-fields. Do a Google search. You will be hard pressed to find anything negative reviews about them. I have had mine for about 5 months, and needless to say I am a VERY happy camper. Well built, nice bottom end, great translation and clarity...all for 400 bucks. Can't rule them out. Canadian made. Best of luck on your eventual decision, Doc! ----Lee

Purchased them from here..great price, service and staff as well.

[ August 21, 2003, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Lee Tyler ]

Ok. You don´t enjoy them. But the NS10´s bass respinse compared to Monitor Ones?

I enjoyed your ambient Bass & Drums stuff
:)

Look into KRK. They are anywhere from $250-$1000 dollars and are worth the money. I use the v4's and I love them dearly. I own a studio and I rely on good monitors to make a great product and these are great. I also use M-Audio SP-5B's for tracking. They are not as good as the KRK's,the frequency response is smaller, but for the money they are ok.

I have to second the Yorkville YSM1's in a big way.

I owned a pair of YSM1's. I had those and a pair of HR824's at the same time for a while and there wasn't much between 'em at all IMO.

Truly excellent monitors, but especially so for the price.

Doc,
I assume you are looking for powered monitors (already have build in amplification)? Anyway, I have used the Yamaha MSP5's are decent starter monitors. Kurt recently wrote a nice review of them in the reviews forum. I ended up upgrading from them about 6 months ago, mainly because I couldn't get my mixes to translate all that well to other systems on them, but that could easily be due to lack of skill more than anything. The budget speakers are almost all suffering from some detail problems (i.e., overhyped highs or lows, or something else) in my opinion. If you are willing to spend up toward the $1200 range for a pair you may be happier in the long run (that is if you plan on keeping this as a long term hobby). My thought is that you should go ahead and spend a good chunk on your monitors as they are perhaps the most important piece of equipment in the chain, and the only part that you hear. Definately don't rush into your decision on a monitor purchase, listen to a bunch yourself, and talk to a lot of people before you invest. Also, beware of used monitors off of ebay or other sites. You may get a good pair, but that is a spooky proposition given that there are several things that can damage speakers. Good luck in your search.

Rob

I'm selling a pair of Tannoy System 800a's for $1000 . . . 2 years old, mint condition. I'm upgrading to the larger System 1200 for my new studio.

I agree w/ Rob, don't skimp on your monitoring chain. Spend a little more and get some quality playback.

My 2 cents,
Mike

For $1200 or so you could find a good used set of Genelecs......1029's for sure and maybe(used) a set of 1030's.....Your next upgrade would be put off for many many years.

I just purchased the ProDesk system from Blue Sky. $1000 for a pair of 5" satellites and an 8" sub. They sound spectacular and have received excellent reviews on both sound and company support. I'm quite pleased with the purchase.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.abluesky…"]Blue Sky[/]="http://www.abluesky…"]Blue Sky[/]

i never liked the ns 10's.... just have no bass response. the tannoy reveals are a good low priced speaker. they also make them self powered for a bit more.

all i do know is that the M-Audio Studiophile 5B's are garbage...

i've been learning to trust my instinct, because my vocals will sound so behind the music while mixxing...and i say, okay, i'm not gonna over compensate, i'll just throw a TINY bit of reverb on and see what happens

well, when i play the finished CD on another system, IT SOUNDS GREAT...while it sounded like shit on the Studiophile's, and when i used to get a great sound on the Studiophile's it would sound horrible on every sound system i played it on(usually the vocals too harsh and the bass too loud)

Try the KRK E7s or E8s....I also like the Pro-Ac Studio 100s. Monitors are a very critical thing and shouldnt be skimped on IMO.

i know they're not the cheapest on earth (~$600 ea.), but i would highly recommend at least listening to a pair of mackie hr824's. i did a shootout with mackie's, krk's, event's (i actually own a pair of ps5's, too). the mackie's blew everything out of the water...especially the krk's.

i personally am not a fan of ns10's either...

- copal

Thats funny...The KRKs (along with NS-10s) seem to be liked by a more old school crowd- I dont like the Mackies at all...Different strokes for different folks and all that I guess.

Just another thought- You probably heard the KRK V8s, which are more in the Mackie price range, while I was referring to the E7 and E8 models which are much more expensive. I've never heard the V series so they may indeed sound like ass for all I know...which I dont.

I use KRK 6000 I like the responce from them . more of a classsic sound. Most of the new speakers sound like home stereo speakers with a big smiley face curve in the eq. That is the last thing I want when I am mixing

I like the Alesis Monitor 1 MK2's and they are cheap. You may want to give the ones by ESI a go. I know nothing about them except they are powered and are very cheap! I think they are about £150? ESI are known for their sound cards.

Good monitors are the ones that translate well. I did not find anything better than NS-10 in the price range below 2K. I have Mackies HR-824s too but I only use them if I want to play the mix loud and get that PA kinda feeling of the sound. I do not find mackies to be accurate. Maybe I'm an "old school" person but I don't care how much bass you can hear from the monitors if they do not tell me the truth. And one thing is sure : music is in the mids!

thx,

chris

I really like my M-Audio BX8's. I just recieved them and have been just learning the monitors for the last week. I was using KRK-6 for a long time and I really didnt like them. I know a ton of engineers that sware by them but to me the are the worst. I experienced a lot of ear fatigue. I just can't stand them. I have been so happy with my BX8's. they translate so well. :p:

Well,
Im very happy with my YAMAHA's MSP5, they are around 500$ (pair), they have good detailed sound, and like the stereo image...very crispy...

Originally posted by Iceberg:
I really like my M-Audio BX8's. I just recieved them and have been just learning the monitors for the last week. I was using KRK-6 for a long time and I really didnt like them. I know a ton of engineers that sware by them but to me the are the worst. I experienced a lot of ear fatigue. I just can't stand them. I have been so happy with my BX8's. they translate so well. :p:

What company produces M Audio? I have tried to research this but I have been unable to find an answer. (Something tells me it's PEAVEY)

IMO the concept of having to "learn" a set of monitors only belies the fact that there is something wrong with the room or the speakers. IMO, monitors should deliver accurate audio without a learning curve. The idea that one needs to "learn" a set of speakers says to me, the speakers aren't performing accurately and the operator is having to compensate for this inaccuracy, putting themselves into a position of playing a game of "poke and hope".

Used passive Tannoy Reveals ($200/ almost anywhere) and a used Hafler P1500 or P3000 (another $200 to $300). For a total of between $400 & $500, you'll have a system that you will keep forever, even when you have purchased that pair of Adam S7s. And for the near term, while this is your only monitor system, you will be hearing a more honest version of what you have recorded than many guys who spent a bumload more.

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:

Originally posted by Iceberg:
I really like my M-Audio BX8's. I just recieved them and have been just learning the monitors for the last week. I was using KRK-6 for a long time and I really didnt like them. I know a ton of engineers that sware by them but to me the are the worst. I experienced a lot of ear fatigue. I just can't stand them. I have been so happy with my BX8's. they translate so well. :p:

What company produces M Audio? I have tried to research this but I have been unable to find an answer. (Something tells me it's PEAVEY)
Peavey is in MS and M-Audio is part of Midiman which is in CA.

A passive monitor that gets little notice but definitely walks with the big boys is the Paradigm Mini Monitor. I was really impressed.

I'm of the school of thought that if your mix sounds good on NS10s it'll sound good on anything. Thats why I don't like Genelecs, because I feel they make my mixes sound better than they are. If the whole world listened to Genelecs, no prob, but that is a far-off and distant future.

For the money, Tannoy Reveals are wonderful. I've used them extensively in the last year (Active version). Stay away from Behringer like the plague.

Also, one of the major studios in Winnipeg uses nothing but Alesis Monitor Ones. The charcoal ones. I found it funny, listening to a bunch of the stuff they did and being really impressed, then walking in and seeing what they monitor on.

Ultimately, your ears get used to what speakers you listen to. You will get to know your tools and learn how to use them to the fullest potential.

Originally posted by jdier:

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:

Originally posted by Iceberg:
I really like my M-Audio BX8's. I just recieved them and have been just learning the monitors for the last week. I was using KRK-6 for a long time and I really didnt like them. I know a ton of engineers that sware by them but to me the are the worst. I experienced a lot of ear fatigue. I just can't stand them. I have been so happy with my BX8's. they translate so well. :confused:

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
[QUOTE]I can't decide which is worse, Alesis or Peavey ... :D :D :D

:p:

Rod

Originally posted by Rod Gervais:

Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
[QUOTE]I can't decide which is worse, Alesis or Peavey ... :D :D :D

:confused: ) . Basically, they were saying, "We were just kidding when we said the Blackface and XTs were pro machines, these are the really pro ones". The capper was all the maintenance and repairs that these machines required, I kind of got the feeling like we were all paying ALESIS for the privilege of being their Beta Testers.. IMO, not a good way to run a company.

The MIDIVERB IV I sold you is an alright piece, it's not a Lexicon or an Eventide but I think it has some good sounds ... the comps get a bad rap but are useable and can be made much better by doing a simple mod that disables the gate (which is useless imo) . There is an article in the RO Emag by Peter Purpose, regarding this simple modification, [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.recordin…"]Alesis 3630 mod[/]="http://www.recordin…"]Alesis 3630 mod[/]. Bottom line is if you decide you don’t like any of that stuff, you should be able to get your money back out of it, considering what you paid for it. I hope you are still happy. Kurt