I have one question for you:Why limit yourself to those 2? ART is not exactly "quality audio" gear. There are fans of the VLA, and that's cool. But the TC box is very questionable. If your budget is say, $400-500, look at The Brick or (I know...) the RNP. More knobs and switches do not guarantee a quality product. IMHO...PEACE.

Any way you look at it IMO, the ProVLA is a very usefull piece of gear--despite what it costs. I use it for tracking many different instruments. If you spend some time getting to know it you'll realize that it can be VERY transparent, or add a pleasing and unique color to most things. Even when I use liberal amounts of compression on something it doesn't sound nearly as brutally "squashed" and poopoo sounding as many other inexpensive comps.

I haven't used the TCS unit, but I haven't heard nearly as many great things (if any) about it compared to the proVLA.

Note: I have heard that the latest ones have undergone some redesigning, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and some of the "magic" may have been lost. So to be on the safe side I would keep my eye out for a used one if I were you.

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies. Moonbaby I think your referring to pre-amps. I've heard the Pro VLA and it would be my first choice. With the TC3 being newer model was wondering if ART had implemented anything, well, new to it. I'm looking for a used Pro VLA to purchase.

The Pro VLA is a great buy. It's got the transparency of the RNC (meaning you don't really "hear" it working the signal) but it's got the character in sound of quality tube compression and is extremely versatile. I can't say enough good things about the Pro VLA.

Honestly, I don't even know what a TC3 is. Sorry.

As far as buying a used one goes you can count on not getting any "bargains". They resale typically between $240 and $270. A full manufacturers warranty may be worth the extra $20-$30 to you. Even on ebay they finish auctions at an average around $250. zzounds sells them for around $269 and MF blows them out once in a while for $229 but only in catalog promo's so you have to actually phone in the order. You can't get them on the web at that price.

I found these blurbs on the web ..ART - TCS Twin Compressor System

The TCS is a two-channel compressor intended for a wide range of audio processing applications. Both an Opto-isolator compressor and VCA compressor are featured. Users may select one of the compressor styles, or combine the two depending on their needs and techniques. The unit also features a 16 position knob, which allows the user to select from several preset compression configurations. The TCS also allows for full manual control of all settings such as attack and release. Housed in a 1u space design, it can be used directly with instruments or with material captured by microphones, and is suitable for both studio and live performance uses.

The PRO VLA (Vactrol-based Leveling Amplifier) is a multi- purpose tool for audio engineering and recording. Enclosed in a 2U (3.5" high) rack-mountable chassis are two independent channels of analog leveling/compression designed to work seamlessly with any recording, sound-reinforcement, or electronic instrument setup. ART’s PRO VLA circuitry is a hybrid design utilizing the latest and most advanced analog and tube technology. Using a transformerless design throughout, the PRO VLA maintains exceptional signal integrity and extremely low noise. Its VCA-less design utilizes optical electronics (Vactrol) coupled with a 12AX7 vacuum tube gain stage for superior musical performance. Developed in partnership with studio and live sound engineers, the PRO VLA possesses a "sound" that is not available from any other compressor on the market - at any price! A member of the ART Reference Series, the PRO VLA was designed and constructed with the absolute best components, assuring a lifetime of quiet, reliable performance.

Both are pretty cheap.
The question I would first ask you amg 1 is why are you thinking about a compressor? Second thing, what are you recording with.

Until I have those answers, I can't even say if you would be well served by purchasing an outboard comp.

Say got instance, you record to a Korg D1600 ... in that case, outboard comps and pres are pretty much worthless to you because the front end is not bypassable. And if you are recording to a DAW then either one of these comps will not do anything for you that you can't already do worth your plugs. In both those cases, I would suggest that your save your cash ...

Hey Kurt, I record to my DAW and I'm using Pro Logic Platinum. I'm looking for some dynamics control and even some tonal shaping if possible. I do a lot of RAP, R&B and Hip-Hop and a lot of the vocalists I work with can get very dynamic as they get excited in the booth especially with the rappers. So I'm looking to get a little control prior to the conversion. My ultimate goal is a Tube Tech compressor which I'm a few gigs away from but until then with what I can spend now I thought about the PRO VLA.

Kurt Foster wrote: And if you are recording to a DAW then either one of these comps will not do anything for you that you can't already do worth your plugs...

With all due respect and not to pick a fight with you but I couldn't disagree more with this statement.

IMO that's like saying forget all about tone, dynamics, and shape if you're printing to a DAW no matter what you're recording.

Don't get me wrong, I love plugs just as much as the next guy and I do have my faves but before my signal gets to the soundcard (for me) it's all about how much analog tone can you squeeze out of what you've got before you go into the box.

Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, the ProVLA gives me a totally different sound than any plugs. Kurt, have you worked with it? I'm just wondering.

amg1 wrote: Hey Kurt, I record to my DAW and I'm using Pro Logic Platinum. I'm looking for some dynamics control and even some tonal shaping if possible. I do a lot of RAP, R&B and Hip-Hop and a lot of the vocalists I work with can get very dynamic as they get excited in the booth especially with the rappers. So I'm looking to get a little control prior to the conversion. My ultimate goal is a Tube Tech compressor which I'm a few gigs away from but until then with what I can spend now I thought about the PRO VLA.

With that in mind I suppose either one will do well. Yes I have used both and I personally don't think much of either one of those pieces. One would be a good as the other. The VLA has tube make up gain but the TSC has both opto and vca based processing ...

The question is; "Is cheap processing better than none at all?" ... I can see the arguments for both. If you feel you must have a solution immediately, then go for one of these ... if you can wait a bit I suggest you just save up and get a very good piece that you can keep forever.

OK, everyone who thinks the Pro VLA is "cheap processing" raise your hand. :?

And don't forget...there's no such thing any longer as "different strokes for different folks". So nevermind the last question. Put your hands down.

Sheer genius

I see more of the TLS comps in live racks than anywhere else.They're fast and clean and apparently ,the live guys like em for the quick setup. The VLA is another story. For those who have had one around the house for a good length of time then you dont need me to tell you about it. For those who havent, get one and play with it...It wont hurt and you might actually learn something(perish the thought)..............Of course its not a MANLEY. but then what is....?

Its all in how you use it.... :wink:

Just popping the top and looking inside one of these things tells the story.

(This is beginning to sound like a broken record but here goes again). The components on the ART pieces are assembled using robots, who "stuff" the PCB using surface mount technology. In many cases the traces on the boards are so thin and delicate that they glue the chips and other components to the boards because if they tried to solder them, the traces would be destroyed by the heat.

Now we all know that big heavy traces are the sh*t when it comes to audio. Lots of power is the ticket. Dave mentioned Manley ... EveAnna's mantra is "Joules mean, Joules!"

Not to mention that these robotically assembled boards are impossible to repair. Down the line, service will become next to impossible when new assemblies are no longer available .... all the while my UREIs and Manley will be happy with a visit to the local service tech.

For those who haven't had the pleasure of using a Manley EL OP, a Sebatron THORAX, a UREI LA4, 1176 or a Millennia ORIGIN, just to mention a few, get one and try it out. It won't hurt and you might actually learn to hear the difference a really good compressor can make (perish the thought).

Kurt Foster wrote: Just popping the top and looking inside one of these things tells the story.

(This is beginning to sound like a broken record but here goes again). The components on the ART pieces are assembled using robots, who "stuff" the PCB using surface mount technology. In many cases the traces on the boards are so thin and delicate that they glue the chips and other components to the boards because if they tried to solder them, the traces would be destroyed by the heat.

Now we all know that big heavy traces are the sh*t when it comes to audio. Lots of power is the ticket. Dave mentioned Manley ... EveAnna's mantra is "Joules mean, Joules!"

Not to mention that these robotically assembled boards are impossible to repair. Down the line, service will become next to impossible when new assemblies are no longer available .... all the while my UREIs and Manley will be happy with a visit to the local service tech.

For those who haven't had the pleasure of using a Manley EL OP, a Sebatron THORAX, a UREI LA4, 1176 or a Millennia ORIGIN, just to mention a few, get one and try it out. It won't hurt and you might actually learn to hear the difference a really good compressor can make (perish the thought).

I would say then Mr. Foster that in your semi-professional review and analysis of the ART Pro VLA that you did not pop the top and have yourself a look-see inside, sir. Seems it would be wiser to actually "pop the top" and have a real look-see before telling "the story".

The Pro VLA (at least the one I have which was manufactured in 2004) doesn't have a single surface mounted component in the circuit. And there is not one single component that is glued to the PCB. Not a single one.

Just to clarify, for the record, Every single component on the Pro VLA by ART is soldered to the PCB. As Dave said, folks who have these around the house and in the studio already know this and it's one of the reasons they are so widely recommended by thousands of users (hobbyist AND professional).

So, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but it seems it's not from actual experience with the product. Since your "stock in trade" is the quality of your opinion in review and advice, you may want to re-visit the Pro VLA to make the necessary adjustments in the accuracy of your advice. Just a friendly suggestion.

For us Po' Folk (and some "not so po'...just wise) a Pro VLA in hand is worth 2 UREI's in tha' bush.

is it me or does kurt have a post stalker following him around to ridicule him?

Okay everybody, I'm seriously looking at the PRO VLA and was wondering about changing out the tubes. I read in the forums that others have experienced some good results doing this and I was wondering what tubes would be good. I am looking to buy this comp as we speak and to enhance it to create more tonal effect would be a positive I think..

LRG

I think the tubes you choose as replacements will depend entirely on the type of music you're tracking but you might want to give the stock tubes a few weeks before making a decision on whether or not to replace them.

Mine shipped with EH tubes and I've been very happy with the sound. I was expecting to have to replace them but haven't found a reason yet.

If I were to replace these tubes though, I'm pretty sure it would be with a pair of JAN-Philips.

stickers wrote: is it me or does kurt have a post stalker following him around to ridicule him?

Yep, you nailed that one stickers ... I'm pretty sure this is a dealer who is pissed that I tell people not to buy cheap rack crap. Normally these dealers and manufacturers wouldn't care about a guy like me but it seems a lot of people pay attention to what is said on RO. The Rack Crap market is a huge boon to these dealers ... they make a lot more money selling sh*t that they do selling quality. here's an example .... this guy has been whining about us always recommending "The Brick" .... and I'll tell you why .... Dealer cost on it is about $300. We all know that we can hammer dealers down to $325 for one ... that's not even 10% mark up for him ... no wonder he squeals like a pig!

People who buy rack crap are not as critical or discerning about the gear they buy ... so much easier to satisfy with mediocre equipment. They really are pissed that I say the things I say and that some people pay attention to me ... so about every six months or so. They send a new person around who attempts to ridicule me and to try to assassinate my character.

Coyote Trax wrote: The Pro VLA (at least the one I have which was manufactured in 2004) doesn't have a single surface mounted component in the circuit. And there is not one single component that is glued to the PCB. Not a single one.

Just to clarify, for the record, Every single component on the Pro VLA by ART is soldered to the PCB.

Well I think Coyote Trax is mistaken about this. I'm sorry but I don't believe that a 2 channel vactrol / electro optical comp that sells for under $300 (and that they are giving a free MXL mic away with, just to get people to buy it) is not using surface mount technology in the construction.
I have never had one of those things apart but I would bet the farm it's all SFM ... completely. I'll bet all connectors are attached to the PCB as well so if you ever trip over a cable that is plugged into the unit chances are you'll rip the connector off the PCB rendering the unit worthless.

There's no way they could manufacture and sell them for that price other than them being made on a robotic assembly line.

There's also no way for the common end user would know if a component is glued or soldered ... you would have to have access to the manufacturer to know whether or not parts were glued, or you would have to be a tech. Fact is most SFM stuff is glued ... and I would venture a guess that if someone were to "pop a top" on a VLA you would not see through the board construction ... Just look and see. If there are no holes with components sticking through them and soldered up ... then it's surface mount. And if it's surface mount, chances are the parts are glued and not soldered.

If you look back to the beginning of this thread I posted here before Kurt did. So I'm not "following" anyone.

And Kurt, I'm sorry man, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Pro VLA's resistors and capacitors are Leaded/Through Hole (TH) components.

You would "bet the farm" on a "guess"? I've never encountered such idiocy on the internet. Never. You assassinate your own character when you make statements like you've made in this thread.

Don't tell me I'm wrong when I'm looking right at the PCB dude. Leaded, Through Hole, soldered resistors and capacitors.

I think there are enough VLA owner's who can pop the top to back me up on that. I'd recommend doing a little homework on this one and have a look for yourself. :roll:

And I'll say it again since you didn't get it last time this happened: I do not work for any dealer, or manufacturer, or anyone involved in industry. And I'm calling you out as a liar if you "go there" again.

First congratulations Coyote Trax, on dragging yet another thread off topic to take any opportunity afforded to attack me. It is plain to see that your sole purpose for logging on to RO is to attempt to discredit me.

Again I apologize to everyone in advance for having to wade through all of this again but I cannot let this schmuck shove me around and then walk away not saying a word. I guess we can just write this thread off as yet another flame war.

Hey if I'm wrong, I'll admit it .... no big deal there ... it won't be the first time I have been wrong ... or the last for that matter. No ones perfect.

You said

The Pro VLA's resistors and capacitors are Leaded/Through Hole (TH) components.

...and what about the rest of the components? Like the volume pots, connectors and chips ... the light unit? All TTH? doubtful ... not at that price point. There's no way they could make it all TTH and sell it to dealers for less than $200!

I still don't believe you. In fact I question if you even know what you are looking at.

Can someone else who knows what they are looking at look for me and tell me if it's TTH or SFM?

Whether it's TTH or SFM I still think it still sounds like caah caah.

Coyote Trax wrote: And I'll say it again since you didn't get it last time this happened: I do not work for any dealer, or manufacturer, or anyone involved in industry. And I'm calling you out as a liar if you "go there" again.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. There is some agenda you are perusing here. You are not simply a person interested in audio. It is very evident you are on a mission of some sort to try to "take me out" . The thing is, I have nothing to lose in a situation like this. I don't have a job that would be endangered, I have no financial interests to protect and the worst thing that could happen is that in this instance I would be proven wrong. The fact that you hide behind a bull sh*t screen name, have no email or contact info posted only shows you are not honest about who you are and what you are doing on RO and that you have some interest to protect. I think you are a dealer, a distributor or a rep for a distributor or a manufacturer and it sure seems to bother you that I think so. I wonder why that is? So call me a "liar" if you want, I think I am closer to the truth than you want to let on.

Don't know about the rest of you, but I use my ears to determine what a piece of gear sounds like - not my eyes (although gear that is visually sexy is certainly a bonus). Personally, I'm not terribly concerned with what's under the hood. How the components are connected under the hood is not necessarily an indication of how something will sound. The ISA428 has a fair amount of SM going on under its hood yet a great many people like how it sounds. Probably an equal number don't like how it sounds. Big deal.

My VLA sits in a rack with high end and low end comps (which will soon include a Pendulum); ranging from a couple of RNC's to a dBX 160SL. The Pro VLA fills a need in my room and I like what it does on certain sources. Lots of other folks agree, lots don't. Ain't life wonderful. :roll:

As to the question about tubes, I put the GT Mullard knockoffs in mine and really like the flavors. I primarily do rock, alt rock and indie style music in my room. I've used the VLA on bass, various kinds of vocals, acoustic and electric guitars. I've not used ART's TC3 so I dont' know how it compares to the VLA. I disagree with Kurt that the VLA is "rack crap" but I do agree with him that the TC3 probably wouldn't be substantially different than the VLA.

Thanks for the pics Skeetch. That was a big help.

OK! I am not beyond modifying my opinion when someone shows me proof I am mistaken. Skeetch's pics do make it look as if there is more than SMF going on in the VLA.

It's kind of difficult to see whether it's SFM or TTH from the pics although does appear there is TTH construction in there ... and I don't know how they do that at the price they sell it for. I still think there's an automated process involved in the building of them and in the long run you will need access to complete assemblies to effect any necessary repairs.

Anything else I would say would only add insult to injury so I will throttle back a bit.

I also agree that TTH does not guarantee that something will sound great and the SFM does not mean bad sound either. For me it's a serviceability issue. In the long run, almost everything I have owned needed service at some point (I keep my things for years).

I regret that it sounded like I lumped the ART Pro VLA into the catagory of "rack crap" in the conversation. That was not my intention and any talk of "rack crap" was in reference to some people who I am at odds with a lot and not really aimed directly at the Pro VLA. I admit the ART Pro VLA is a step up from most "rack crap"!

I'm sure the ART Pro VLA works fine for some folks. I personally don't like the sound of them or the overall "feel" of the unit, especially the knobs.

I would wait and save until I could swing an old UREI LA3 or LA4 or a Manley EL OP. my 2 cents.

I had an LA-2 for a while as well as two Urie/JBL 7110's and the knobs on my VLA feel pretty much like the others....except that the LA-2 had a bent shaft on one of the pots....still sounded great...The VLA sounds great too.....just different than some of the others mentioned. All in all, if you cant make a good sound with one of the VLA's then you had better get some training in the use of compressors....cause thats exactly what they are. And just for shits-and-giggles, I too opened the top and its all finely crafted...looks hand-wired to me....well most of it anyway....but ...whut-do-I-know...................the ribbon connections actually look fairly hardy as opposed to some I've seen...

As for price point....I'm sure that the parts that involve Manuel Labor are outsourced. Most companies do that now-a-days...It makes perfect budget sense......There's really NOTHING wrong with a company making money....It is Farkin AMERICA.....anybody wanta argue about that?

Kurt, your opinion is as valid as anyone's. I'm not going to dispute that with you or anyone else. But............

...sometimes the way you present it can piss people off. It doesn't mean they are trolls or dealers or manufacturers if they decide enough is enough and call you on it. Your rants and condescending attitude have gotten under my skin many a time, but I usually just bite my tongue because I realize you are a self proclaimed gear snob.

I also do realize you could care less about what anyone thinks of you (I actually recall you stating that in a post somewhere in not so many words, and I've worked with some of your former associates here on the Penninsula), but why must you be so obstinate? You are quite capable of getting your point across very successfully and diplomatically without insulting someone for using "rack crap" as you call it; I have seen you do it. I think we all appreciate THAT Kurt much more.

opinions are like a**holes, and there's no reason to be the latter.

The ProVLA is a very usable compressor. If you don't like it, leave it.

AMG1
Ive been using the Pro Vla for about 2 months now-----and I can testify,that without a dought,its well worth the money,its a good product for the money----------------buy it!--------------------You have my word!!!!--------you wont be sorry.
When the time comes,you and many others will step up to a higher end comp,but in the mean time,use the Pro VLA!-
:wink:

Thanks Eddie and everyone else. I am on the look for one, almost picked up a PRO MPA by mistake not paying attention on EBAY :oops:
Should have it by the end of this month.

jobu2u wrote: Kurt, your opinion is as valid as anyone's. I'm not going to dispute that with you or anyone else. But............

...sometimes the way you present it can piss people off. It doesn't mean they are trolls or dealers or manufacturers if they decide enough is enough and call you on it. Your rants and condescending attitude have gotten under my skin many a time, but I usually just bite my tongue because I realize you are a self proclaimed gear snob.

I also do realize you could care less about what anyone thinks of you (I actually recall you stating that in a post somewhere in not so many words, and I've worked with some of your former associates here on the Penninsula), but why must you be so obstinate? You are quite capable of getting your point across very successfully and diplomatically without insulting someone for using "rack crap" as you call it; I have seen you do it. I think we all appreciate THAT Kurt much more.

opinions are like a**holes, and there's no reason to be the latter.

The ProVLA is a very usable compressor. If you don't like it, leave it.

WOW!!!

amg1 wrote: Thanks Eddie and everyone else. I am on the look for one, almost picked up a PRO MPA by mistake not paying attention on EBAY :oops:
Should have it by the end of this month.

I located a couple of Vla Pros on E-Bay--------but when everything was said and done,including shipping,I decided to pick one up at http://www.zzounds.com----free shipping.

I just finished tracking come hard hitting guitar leads with alot of peaks at the vu meter--------------when i ran it through the Vla during mix,It leveled it out real nice!,no tone loss (that you worked real hard on getting)even at a 5:1 ratio.

Good luck!--------------

Amg1
Just spotted on e-bay #7333714866-----------get-er dun!----------------reserve is met

I gotta speak on this one. I've had a Pro VLA for a number of years and it sounds awesome.
A.R.T. was sold to Yorkville Sound around 5 years ago? I would be willing to bet that they found a cheaper way to put it together than the original company.
Now that I think about it I've had mine for about 10 years and have only had to change a lightbulb in the meters.

Let's see.... sounds great, reliable and super cheap isn't that gear nirvana? Oh Oh I'm talking myself into buying a couple more.

Stephen

soundsbig wrote: I gotta speak on this one. I've had a Pro VLA for a number of years and it sounds awesome.
A.R.T. was sold to Yorkville Sound around 5 years ago? I would be willing to bet that they found a cheaper way to put it together than the original company.
Now that I think about it I've had mine for about 10 years and have only had to change a lightbulb in the meters.

Let's see.... sounds great, reliable and super cheap isn't that gear nirvana? Oh Oh I'm talking myself into buying a couple more.

Stephen

Seeing as how youve been working with the VLA for some time now-------------I have a couple of questions.
Do you prefer to use the auto attack and release , or activate the buttons manually?

I use the auto buttons almost all the time for vocals,guitar. I will usually put the fast attack, auto release on a bass guitar depending on the player. I don't record live drums very much but the little I've done I found the fast setting not fast enough. But maybe thats just the nature of an opto compressor being a little slower than the VCA type.

Thanks, Stephen

I thought about this one for a few days before I responded, just to make sure I wasn’t speaking from anger.

jobu2u wrote: Kurt, your opinion is as valid as anyone's. I'm not going to dispute that with you or anyone else. But............

...sometimes the way you present it can piss people off. It doesn't mean they are trolls or dealers or manufacturers if they decide enough is enough and call you on it. Your rants and condescending attitude have gotten under my skin many a time, but I usually just bite my tongue because I realize you are a self proclaimed gear snob.

And ….? This is nothing more than a commentary on my personality. I think you should have left it at the first sentence and yes in many cases I have been proven correct when I pointed out that a manufacturer was incognito making posts. I think all personal comments and character assassinations should be left out of the discussion at all times. Personalities have nothing to do with the topic.

jobu2u wrote: I also do realize you could care less about what anyone thinks of you (I actually recall you stating that in a post somewhere in not so many words, and I've worked with some of your former associates here on the Penninsula), but why must you be so obstinate?

I am not sure what you are insinuateing. If it’s that there are a lot of people in the Bay Area that don’t like me … I plead guilty to that. I am curious who you are referring to.

During the time KFRS was running, there were a lot of users who thought they should be able to come to my studio demanding spec deals or the lowest rates, break my gear, clean out the first aid kit for all the decongestants, sit in my office and run up long distance charges on the phone. There were musicians I hired for projects that tried to steal my clients. I had some Nazi’s in that I kicked out when they started spouting off that the Holocaust never happened and was just a fabrication of “Hollywood Jews”. There were clients that wanted to monitor so loud that I wouldn’t work for them … and they resented that I got them other engineers to run the studio. They always asked Treena, “Why won’t Kurt work with us?” There were people who wanted to punch in on single words, repeatedly, all day long. After about 6 hours of punching in on a track with the results sounding worse than the first whole take. I would tell them they needed to get another engineer. So yeah, there are some people who don’t like me … and that’s cool. In fact I would be more bothered if many of them said they liked me. Most of them were assholes.

But once again, this is all about personalities. I didn’t know this was a popularity contest. Actually I thought this sh*t was over when I got out of High School.