I don't have much knowledge in this but in the music store i was listening to the DDRum from Clavia and it sounded awesome. The pads they had with them (also Clavia) were really responsive and had much life in them. You should look into them:

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.clavia.s…"]Clavia Ddrum 4[/]="http://www.clavia.s…"]Clavia Ddrum 4[/]

Well, really not too much. If feel and dynamics is what you're after, then it doesn't get much better than the Roland Session Series. If you have the concert kit, then you're pretty close to the best out there in my opinion.

Originally posted by jscott:
Well, really not too much. If feel and dynamics is what you're after, then it doesn't get much better than the Roland Session Series. If you have the concert kit, then you're pretty close to the best out there in my opinion.

As a drummer i have to agree with JS........ what you have is much more than adequate...... so i find myself curious...... why in the world do they feel the need to upgrade?

By the way Mr Scott......... great information you've put together..... my hat is off to you.. :tu:

Rod

The electronic drumsets I've tryed, so far, (the newest yamaha model and Ddrum) are still far behind the acustic sound and feel. I imagine 10 years until they will be usable. But that is just my taste :roll:

If the church is bound and determined to blow some bread, how about something as extravagant as a laptop DAW outfitted with an RME interface? Trigger rEAlly good samples out of a VSTi like Battery (Native Instruments) and freak everybody out. "Holy shit those drums sound good" they might say...

Originally posted by Rod Gervais:
By the way Mr Scott......... great information you've put together..... my hat is off to you.. :tu:

Rod

Thanks for the nice comments Rod! They don't come all that often, but I really do appreciate them when they do.

I keep saying to myself that one day I'll improve it, add samples and pictures, and...But....I never get there. But someday I will, so stay tuned..............off and on.

DmDreams,
Thanks! I'll look into it.

JScott,
Really? There hasn't been much improvement in the past.. oh.. 5 years? I'm guessing this kit to be that old.

Rod,
We just got a new music minister. He's got a good ear and wants better drums.

Besides, this particular set has some problems; the snare channel in the control unit is shot, so i borrowed the low tom channel for snare.

Golli,
I agree. I've played drums since i was 10 (LONG time). I just can't make myself like these things. I dunno.

But they have good reasons for wanting to stay electronic. Lots of blue-hairs in the congregation. :)

Ctrl-Z,
lol... well, i'm hoping no one would yell that out in church.. :)

Thanks, guys. I'm wondering if the Concert series has changed much in the past 5 or so years. Wonder if a new controller would help.

tj

Just a thought,
I "Trigger" my acoustic DW set. I have Ddrum triggers on all the drums and run through an Alesis DM5 module. It is just like heaven, when it comes to live set-up. I almost feel like a guitarist...."show up, plug-in and play", a very nice feeling. Granted I submix my kit, with overheads for cymbals and I don't trigger the snare, just because you "don't" get that feel from that drum.

I would never own a set of electronic pads, although I've played many and they are very cool!!
I suggest going the trigger route, it takes some work getting them dialed in, but once you do, your still playing "your kit" and the real feel is still there.
Not to mention Perfect Sounds........Everytime!!!

Mike

TJ,

I have to believe that you could take this kit, have the snare repaired - clean it up - a whole lot cheaper than buying a new kit.

Think about this for a second - ultimately the sound that comes out of these is programed.... it has almost nothing to do with the kit itself - and everything to do with the processor and Amp.

Get the snare fixed and maybe you want to consider a new amplifier - to acheive the sound the pastor is looking for - or maybe just the processor - if there is a particular sound he wants produced that the one your using can't make happen.

But replacing the entire kit doesn't make sense to me - especially since you already have a good quality set.

Newer doesn't necessarily translate to better........ ask anyone who owns a Strad...... :D :D

Happy Hunting

Rod

Launch,
Hmmmm...i will give this some thought. The idea of playing acoustic, muting them completely, and triggering samples rather appeals to me. I like the ideal that I could dial in diff sets for each song.

I remember playing a set in a session that was muted completely. Sounded (and felt) a bit strange, but the engineer really made them sound good on tape (yes, it was awhile ago).

Hmmmmm....

Rod,
I plan to check into having the control module repaired/replaced. I'm being told that the kit is only a couple years old, so upgrading to another electronic kit is making less and less sense.

I see there's a memory slot on the controller. Do you know if I can load new samples into this thing? The cymbals are especially disappointing.

Thanks for your input, guys!

tj

Personally - the cymbals are where i would break from this "tradition"....... i have never heard cymbals reproduced that i liked - that is where i would go acoustic......

What model of Drum module are you using?

Rod

We're using the TD-10. I gather that's one of their best. I'm trying to find warranty/service info, but the Roland site isn't being very helpful.

tj

Originally posted by Teej813:
Launch,
Rod,
I plan to check into having the control module repaired/replaced. I'm being told that the kit is only a couple years old, so upgrading to another electronic kit is making less and less sense.

I see there's a memory slot on the controller. Do you know if I can load new samples into this thing? The cymbals are especially disappointing.

Check this out - it's the expander for the module.......

http://www.rolandus.com/products/details.asp?catid=5&subcatid=29&prodid=TDW%2D1

As far as service goes.... contact some of their service centers in your area (they're listed at the site) and see if they can't get you pushed in the right direction.

That module is about $1,450..... the expansion module retails for around $300...... it would be a shame not to get it fixed..

Rod

Excellent. Thanks, Rod. That module looks promising!

tj

Tj

you're welcome buddy........

Rod

Ok, I had a chance to hear the V-Drums with the expansion card. MUCH improved! I'm recommending we spend the $300 and see how much it helps. If we still aren't satisfied with the cymbals, we'll go for the cymbal pad upgrades. Dang, they're expensive! About $250 each.

Anyway, thanks for your help, Rod.

tj

Jumping in late here, but looks like you've gotten good direction from the assembled wisdom.

I've got the fully loaded V-Session kit with v-cymbals in my room and they sound pretty good. They're about as close as I've played on to acoustic heads. If you've gotta go edrums, the Rolands are pretty tough to beat for feel and sound. Granted, the samples could be better (can't they always tho?), but for live situations they're easy to setup and run through your board. They even record pretty nicely, but I'd still prefer an acoustic kit for tracking.

Some day . . . ...

I agree, Skeetch. But in a church setting, electronic drums just make sense. I can deal with the limitations. Besides, I never liked sitting behind plexiglass. Ugh.

tj

Teej,

I'm happy things are working out - but you can play acoustic and not need to be behind plexi if the drummer knows how to deal with volume....... :D

:c:

Rod

True, Rod. But that's the rub. I happen to have a pretty light touch. But i'm not the only drummer. I play bass when other drummers sit in. Some are fine, others aren't. With electronic (dang.. am i really defending the use of eDrums? UGH!), the sound man has complete control.

tj

TJ,

got it buddy........ :mad: :mad:

But you have it right that at least this way the sound man is in control..........

Rod

i know I'm going to get flamed but the V-drum pads and TD-10 brain sucks arse. The samples are complete and utter shit. Stacks and stacks of useless sounds and very few of them sound realistic. The hihat controller is the biggest piece of ka-ka invented and the pad triggers **** up within a year of playing them. Some other crappy parameters are room simulators, dreadful reverb, disastrous EQ and the mic placement is just plain funny. Roland has no business in electronic drums.

As far a pure playability goes, Clavia's ddrum4 is miles ahead. It's by no means perfect but at least the hihat controller is usable and the sounds are generally good. It's quick and easy to work with and you can change sounds via sys ex dumps from a computer and the sounds are free online. My main gripe with the ddrum4 is that you can't store enough sounds as the memory is small.

My previous electronic drums have been the ddrum AT, ddrum3, Roland Vdrums+TD-10 and currently the ddrum4.

The ddrum3 was the best of them all but sadly it didn't offer a hihat controller option which is how I ended up with the V-drums for two years before going back to ddrum.

Regardless of what I've used or what I use now, all electronic drums still suck and I am in agreement with Golli that they haven't nailed it yet and they've still got quite a way to go.

I realise this will sound like a Roland bashing but I hate their later keyboard sounds too. Very plastic sounding unlike a virus, moog or waldorf. I strongly believe that Roland market their gear to the untrained ear with a healthy dose of hype and endorsements to catch attention.

My advice to the original poster is to sell or trade the v-drums on a ddrum4 and never look back. The Roland sound expansion module won't save you.

Originally posted by denial:
My advice to the original poster is to sell or trade the v-drums on a ddrum4 and never look back. The Roland sound expansion module won't save you.

I think its funny you mentioned all the things you did. Because I have a friend who runs a shop that sells the DDrum stuff and told me almost word for word what you just said. So I sat down, began to play, twisted a few knobs and the first thing that hit me was how noisy the sounds were. Almost like using an older amp with poor S/N.

So its good to have different opinions. As you said, you don't like much Roland has to offer. I've heard that from Alesis, Kurzweil, Akai, Yamaha and Korg devoted people as well. People want different things. But in the end, I had the same but exact opposite impression when I was done using the DDrum4 module and pads. I thought it/they were very lacking in almost every respect.

While certainly some sounds are far superior through other means, I sort of consider that a non-issue if you are in a studio environment, because they can always be rerouted or replaced.

If realistic is what you are after, then there's really only one way to get that. True drums are an acoustic instrument and as such, no amount of computer modeling will allow you to get the same feel, reach and expressivness as the real thing. So when one says "electronic" or "Sampled", that is what you have for sound.

I think its funny you mentioned all the things you did. Because I have a friend who runs a shop that sells the DDrum stuff and told me almost word for word what you just said. So I sat down, began to play, twisted a few knobs and the first thing that hit me was how noisy the sounds were. Almost like using an older amp with poor S/N.

Hi jscott

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion but I highly doubt that tweaking and toying with a kit in a shop for 30 minutes is the same as using it for two years professionally both on stage and in the studio. Take my word for it, the V-drum triggers can't take the daily punishment.

As far as the noise you describe, you're not really telling us much. Was it through the headphone port or through a PA. I can confirm that both the Roland TD-10 and ddrum4 have quite acceptable S/N ratios and neither are problematic. My only conclusion here is that either the ddrum4 was not functionaing properly or the mixer was noisy. More information is needed here to determine the problem.

The bottom line is that until you've used the products for at least a few months in different environments you're not gonna see the good, the bad and the ugly. It takes time to become familiar with the strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome them. There's no possible way I'd believe you tapped into the power of either system in one session.

If you read the original posters posts, you will see he has already had trouble with the snare pad triggering. Why? Because it's a piece of Roland shit and that will continue to happen.

To state that real drums are the only alternative to a real drum sound in an electronic drum thread is just plain stupid.

No offense son, but if you're going to bring something to the table, bring something worth eating.

Originally posted by denial:
To state that real drums are the only alternative to a real drum sound in an electronic drum thread is just plain stupid.

No offense son, but if you're going to bring something to the table, bring something worth eating.

Look "little mister" I first gave you a respectable reply and said your opinion was accepted and valued, I just did not agree to it.

Now if you have to try and take this conversation into the dirt through an immature reply, then play with someone else cause this guy isn't going to lower himself to that level.