Okay, I am laying out my budget for a mic (or mics) for about $500 dollars. And a converter/preamp box from $800 to $1000. I am so torn on this please help!
1 I got $500 dollars to spend on microphones. I have been thinking of getting the (AT 3035) and the (RODE NT1000) both together cost $500 bucks.
OR? should I get the (RODE NTK)? $500 bucks by itself.
As far as my mic uses, I do all my tracking be myself, I wanted the 2 mics to give differant flavors, but I have read so many good reviews on the NTK I dont know if I would be better off with just that by itself?
Okay Problem number two : Converter/ Preamp.
Its pretty simple, should I get a Aardvark Q10 or a MOTU 896? (as far as sound quality goes?)
Comments
My opinion on the microphone selection differs from that of Fats
My opinion on the microphone selection differs from that of Fats just a bit. I don't think you have given us enough information to make that choice yet. What do you plan on mic'ing? What style or styles of music? Do you have any other mics?
Personally, I love the NTK, and have it on my short wish list. It is great for vocals (M + F), especially male rock vocals, and can be used on lots of different sources. I saw one going on Ebay *brand* new for $388, and was sorely tempted to pick it up, but unfortunately, I have one or two more purchases that are ahead of the NTK right now! That would leave you about $100 left over for another microphone, and if you could stretch that just a *bit*, you might be able to pick up a second mic. In fact, if you could stretch it to $200, you can easily still get your AT3035!
The 2 mics you list are both large-diaphragm cardiod mics with similar specifications. I know that each has their own unique sound and it is hugely powerful to have several mics to choose from for a given job, and I think this is where Fats is coming from in his recommendation. The more mics you have in your cabinet, the more versatile you will be in your ability to effectively mic multiple sources. I just think that the NTK has a unique flavor to it due to the tube, and will sound unique compared to the other 2 that I would think would sound more similar.
Plain and simple, a good mic just sounds better than a cheap mic (Fats reminds me of this all the time!), and although all of these mics are on the lower end of the scale, the quality of the NTK is much better imho than either the NT1 or the 3035 (I also know that Fats loves Audio Technica, so I'm sure he will disagree here!)
Good luck!
I needed a shock mount for my U87 but instead of buying the orig
I needed a shock mount for my U87 but instead of buying the original shockmount I realized that I could get a studio projects C1 and use it's shockmount for the U87 and not only save money on the shockmount but get a free mic to boot! There are reports that a C1 sounds as good as a U87. I have both and it's not true. The U87 has a warmer top end and more power and sounds quite a bit different. However for the money the C1 is quite good - amazing bang for the buck actually. You might actually be better off getting it and putting your extra money into a nice mic pre. If you have the cash in the bank you might also consider buying a good (German) vintage mic that won't go down in value 2 years from now. You will spend more than your budget but if you're serious about recording it may be a wise option. Just be sure it's in good condition before you plop down the big bucks. Why invest in stocks when you can have an investment that will also have utilitarian value?
DH You're correct! The reason I recommended the 2 mics is,
DH
You're correct! The reason I recommended the 2 mics is, one of them was an Audio Technica. Better 1 Audio Technica and one Chinese mic, than no Audio Technica at all!!! If I could recommend 2 AT over the Rodes' that's what I would do. But it is better to have 2 mics' rather than one. It's twice as many :D ..... Fats
I always feel like investing in one element at a time, properly.
I always feel like investing in one element at a time, properly. If you NEED 2 mics, then do it. If you can live with one for a while, put your resources towards it whole-walletedly. Especially on a mic: a) you get what you pay for and b) in comes out.
Here's my small-timer's two cents:
I just bought a Blue Baby Bottle mainly for female vocals. (I got it on ebay for $428.00 which included the custom pop screen/shockmount and shipping.) You can buy the same package new for $500.00 plus tax.
It is a really nice sounding mic. I tested it alongside an NT 1000, a KSM32, and a Blue Kiwi ($2 grand, but I wanted to hear it).
For the female vocals, I thought it sounded best for $500. The Rode NT1000 sounded sorta cheap in its high-end...emphasis. The Baby was also darker than the Kiwi, which I liked.
From what I've found, many inexpensive ("under $1K") mic manufacturers (Studio Projects, Marshall, Rode, etc) are making these cheap Chinese 1" condensers with EQ-hyped upper mids that are all trying to "sound just like a Neumann for 10x less". I'm no snob (prior to the Blue I've been recording vocals with an SM-57 and making people not believe it) but I wanted something quality that wasn't trying to "pass" for something it wasn't. It's lack of upper-hype is ballsy in this market, and it IS *smoov*. The Baby Bottle is no-frills. There's no pad switch and no pattern switch. The only thing I paid for that I can't use is their cherrywood box. (But it *looks* nice, so I'll just say thanks.)
The KSM was a close second.
As a guy who needs one mic to do it all (well, besides the SM-57, which is collecting some dust), the Baby Bottle was a great choice.
best-
.nick
DH You're right1 The 001 has Foucusrite pres. And not the
DH
You're right1 The 001 has Foucusrite pres. And not the good ones frome their Red range but rather the pres from the Platinum range. Digidesign is in a partnership with Focusrite. I have read a lot of dispariging things about these pres but I think they are useable. Much better than a Mackie pre .... Fats
Mix77 It is amazing at how good even the cheezo equipment c
Mix77
It is amazing at how good even the cheezo equipment can be made to sound. IMO it can happen when the person who is operating it doesn't try to get sounds like they were from a "real" or "vintage" set up but rather they take the ball and run with it, using the medium as part of the pallet. Simply use the tools that you have and do the best with it. The dynamics and effects that come stock with Cubase VST are fine. There's really quite a lot that can be done with it if the songs and the performing is up to snuff. Mackie pres are mentioned all the time because although they are much disparaged, they are a defacto standard which all others may be quantified. I have tracked some great acoustic blues records on an 8 Bus Mackie with the best outboard available being a Drawmer 1960 (rrroowwllllffff)!!! While a lot of newer gear isn't of the same quality as "real" or "vintage" pieces, it really is quite useable. It's all in what you want. Mics and speakers are another story ….. Fats
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It's my opinion, I'll play with it if I want to!
I was actually expressing displeasure with the Drawmer. Traded m
I was actually expressing displeasure with the Drawmer. Traded mine for an EL OP, … now were talkin... I don't know if I can say that real quality consoles are going to be around much longer except in a few major recording studios. There may be say 500 to 1000 of these in the US but the rest of recording will be on DAW's. And at that point, unless you want to spring for major high buck, high resale items like Manley, Neve, API, United Audio like that , it's all pretty much cheezo. Get the cheapest thing that works. In my case ( which btw is total overkill imo) I have Cubase with Dakota card and two AI3's. The front end is a couple of AMEK 9098's and UREI 1178 , LA 4's and an EL OP. If I need more pres I go to the Mackies. It doesn't really make that much of a difference in the end. It all goes through the computer and comes out with that "it's been through a computer" sound. But that is becoming the new defacto standard. Can't fight it. …. Just don't spend a ton of money on it. It's a waste .
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It sounds like you are still purchasing your own gear. I can spe
It sounds like you are still purchasing your own gear. I can speak for Mix in that he gets to play with all the new toys. And the pro consoles WILL be around for a long time because they have that sweet sound that digital consoles just don't have. That I know to be true, I work on them everyday. Mackie? I would listen to what the pros have to say about that.
Soup
pro consoles WILL be around for a long time because they have th
pro consoles WILL be around for a long time because they have that sweet
sound ..... That I know to be true, I work on them everyday.
So Soup, what kind of consoles do you see as "pro", what are you woking on eveyday, and do you own it or does it belong to a studio that you work at? .... Just wondering??? .... Fats
Soup, No I am not still buying equipment, as a matter of fa
Soup,
No I am not still buying equipment, as a matter of fact I have been doing this for 30 something years and currently I have been selling equipment left over from my business. I owned and operated a commercial 2" 2000 sq. ft. facility in the SF Bay Area for several years until 2 years ago when I decided to get the hell out of California and retire (at age 49 btw) on the money I earned….. Fats
Mix77,
First let me say I am glad that anybody posts here. Even you :D . It's what it is all about. But I don't need to be told to "EZ up!" I asked Soup a perfectly reasonable question with no attitude intended. I think I deserve a better answer than, "Just take what he says as gospel, because believe me he is a studio god" kind of thing. I for one am not willing to accept blanket statements just because someone is "supposedly" above me. (BTW I too have made and sold "real" records. Some of them distributed by Virgin among others. Check my profile for the details if you wish. Seems that you too are guilty of not knowing who you are speaking with.)
I just wanted clarification of what is being called a 'real console". The reason I asked my last question of Soup is, to own one of these bad boys you have to have a hell of a cash flow just to keep up on the maintenance. Most of the readers here at RO own and are working in home studios and that is generally what we discuss here. It's not as if the average home studio owner can go buy one of these things and plop it in there living room and it will run forever with out any attention! I had an MCI 600 that cost almost $5K to keep running in a commercial facility over a 5 year period. I think it was reasonable to ask if "Soup" himself is the owner of a large format console or if he works at a "Major Recording Studio" as I was speaking of where said maintenance is of no concern to him. As we all know a lot of these rooms, with the exception of the largest that accommodate national acts, are closing down fast because they can't compete with the home recording revolution. Walter Sear has his studio on the market as we speak! I also stand by my statement ....
I don't know if I can say that real quality consoles are going to be around much longer except in a few major recording studios.
You as a sales person in the retail end of the music business should be the first to acknowledge that the market for large format consoles is rapidly shrinking. I admire your willingness to defend your associate / client but perhaps you're the one who needs to EZ up. To hear this from someone who doesn't seem to know the difference between a cheap Focusrite mic pre that is in the 001 and Neve pres (to tell someone "Look at the Digidesign Protools 001 bundle. The interface has two NEVE preamps in it " does a real disservice. There is a world of difference). Everyone, this is a perfect example of how you can't believe what they tell you at the music store. Those cheap Focusrite pres in the 001 are sh*t! I suspect you may have the ass at me because I am always advising readers not to spend too much cash on the mid line crap that is sold in most commercial music stores and in your perception that endangers or makes difficult your position as a salesperson …. Fats
I guess in summing this up, thie is not right or wrong but it al
I guess in summing this up, thie is not right or wrong but it all comes from experience. In a blind fold test once when I was teaching the recording arts, I took a B&K 4006 with a Neve console and recorded a guitar. I then took a radio shack condenser (49 dollars) and a Mackie board. With EQ and my experience, not one student could tell which was which.
It all depends on what will work for you. In another thread, I gave some examples of how to get the level up in mastering and I failed to mention one example of analog console to A/D to CDR input digitally but you know what?
I have never had two mastering sessions (or even two songs on one session) go down the same way. That is what makes this "Art".
When we stop trying something new is when we quit learning. Also, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
I like to share what has worked for me in certain instances but nothing I say is ever set in stone due to the thousands if not millions of varibles that occures in remaote locations. Even this facility has a Ghost that lingers about changin things so I must work very hard practicing my art many hours per day, every day, fine tuning and calibrating the monstor. I also feel all here have something to say and I know that tone gets in the dump from time to time especially when everyone here has experienced things they "KNOW" works certain ways. As an engineer, I can get most anything that is not defective to function the way I need it to for back-end results with patience, perserverence and open mindedness. Their are certain instances where one needs to agree to disagree. This past week I have had may share of BS go down and none of it was either funny or healty. Sometimes we talk things more seriously than they really appear and sometimes it is good to just kick back and vibe. I am not a Mackie fan by no means and I have harped until I am blue in the face about the horrible signal path and topographical design errors built into them but you know what?, not everyone can afford to dum 70K into their consoles Mic pres and line amps and I for one love it dearly when I hear someone making nice sound with a Mackie because in a true sense, that person has becaome an engineer simply by finding all the faults and finding a way to work around them and make things positive happen.
Well, I hope that at least clears the air.
However he did it, Fats has some FAT work out there in the record shops and I know who screws is as well so likewise. I also looked into your things to Mix77, you got it going on!
The RO is a healty place for heated discussion but we need to learn all of us to read between the lines and get the most positive things going on.
BTW, my keyboard is fucked up and I did not proof read for spelling so get over it damnit!
Their was something very fowl in the air this past week, lets work to spray some lysol on it and have a damn good stress free week shall we?
Mix, Dude, peace. I mean it. I just don't understand the re
Mix,
Dude, peace. I mean it. I just don't understand the reply. I asked a simple and valid question. No sarcasm intended. If I ever mean to "slap someone down" you will know it. No subtlety here! I still haven't got an answer. What are you and Soup talking about when you say a "pro console"? I will start out by telling you what I look at as a pro recording console. Excuse me if I leave one or two out. This would be an omission of error .... Neve, SSL, Euphonics, Focusrite, Amek 9098, Calrec, MCI's and to some extent DDA and NeoTech (although I don't much care for those last two). There are of course some custom built consoles that I haven't mentioned but that's pretty much it IMO. I don't suppose to be a prophet of any type, but I ask you to remember that RO is populated by readers who work primarily on DAW and home studio gear and this is the "small steps" thread. Not too many here have had the opportunity to work on much less own a large format board. I no longer own a studio (thank goodness) but I will say in regards to your statement
"I'm surprised that you do not still support the professional end of this business."
my answer is, Why should I? Professional retail never supported me! That's like saying because I drive a car I should be supportive of the local Lincoln / Mercury dealer. BTW I'm not the only one who thinks those Focusrite pres in the 001 are sub standard. It is well known that the entire platinum range of processors from Focusrite is living off the laurels of the Red range of pres and eq's. You will never see those in these pro rooms you keep speaking of. You can't have it both ways. .............. Fats
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Sarcasm is just one more service we offer.
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Mix, It seems that the credits section of profiles was dele
Mix,
It seems that the credits section of profiles was deleted (probably in the interest of RO economy) . I don't really like to site my credits because it reeks of SPAM but I will do it here again. My main claim to fame is I recorded Brownie McGhee's last record. It is out on Demon Records - MCI in Europe as "The Last Great Blues Hero" and in the USA on Westside Records -MCI as "Omega". I have also recorded several records for cult following Blues artist Kenny "Blue" Ray on the JSP / Virgin label including "Git It" and "In All Of My Life" as well as a record by Jackie Payne on JSP-Virgin called "Day In The Life (of a Bluesman). I also did several records for "Jeff Larson" for Embryo Arts / It Stinks out of the Netherlands. All of these records are available at Amazon . com or Tower Records …. You can do a search on Netscape of my name, Kurt Foster, and that will show up several more blues records and some head banger stuff I did too.
To visit the supporting the business thing , I don't really care much for the retail end of the business. I know you can't stop progress but I think most of what is wrong with the record business lies with OEM's and retailers, sales execs etc. proliferating a lot of sub standard gear to those who know nothing about what goes into making records and telling them that all they need is the latest black box whiz bang gizmo and they can make records at home as good as the big boys. This is exactly why independent studios and large consoles are going extinct and why modern records can't hold a candle to those that were done in the 50's, 60's, 70's and to some extent the 80's. I yearn for the days when guys like Bill Putnam and Tom Dowd, who had some soul, were building their own gear and studios and it wasn't a game just for deep pocket spoiled rich kids. Now days it has all evolved into such a super snob networking thing I can hardly stand it! That's another reason I got out of the studio business. I couldn't stand most of the phony's who I had to do business with. This whole end of the business has turned into such an "elitist" thing, that a lot of people are being excluded (by the spoiled brats who have usurped the art) solely because of social economic background. Now days what it takes to own a studio or be in this business is "Money Money Money"! and if you don't have it you don't get to play, unless these same snots can make money off of you. Then when they've finished with you they discard you and move on to the next economic opportunity. I also lament the loss of a true mentoring system. Now if you want to get into the business Mommy and Daddy have to be able to cut a cheque for 10 grand so you can go to a "school" that has no pre requisites other than Mommy and Daddy being able to cut a cheque for 10 grand.
The business has lost all of its soul, which is a bad thing for an industry that is driven by artistic endeavor. Rock and Roll sprung from the loins of economic and social deprivation. It just doesn't ring true when someone sings,
"I've got the blues, because my Beemer won't start!
Oh, "I've got the blues, because my Beemer won't start!
I called up the dealer, who said they don't have the right parts!" ….. :D The drive for everything to be perfect, in tune, time corrected has taken all of the excitement and tension from the medium. I saw a post this morning where you advised someone to denoise a Leslie and I almost choked! Don't you realize that all the clicks, pops, farts and grind is part of it? Not just on an organ track but acoustic guitar squeaks, vocal breaths and so on. Not to mention what a denoiseing program does to the sound (which is the most important factor).
This is turning into quite a rant (which I have become infamous for ) so I will stop here although I could wax poetically for a while longer on this. I think that to really record American pop and rock music, it really helps to have a "clue" about how the other side lives. We all become sooo jaded sitting in our multi million dollar facilities sending runners out for sushi and creamy coffee drinks that we have lost sight of the fact that this is "roots" music and it shouldn't be perfect, in tune and all that, rather the most important thing being feeling and soul. ….. Fats
I've heard that you can spank a sea monkey...but I'd say that al
I've heard that you can spank a sea monkey...but I'd say that all the spanking has already taken place in your extended disclosure of the truth.
And let it be noted, that you seemed to have "Chuck D.'d" the opposition (a-shut em down, a- shut em shut em down......a shut em down, a shut em shut em down......)
Awesome Editorial, Fats! (add my *triple* Amen!)
JZ
Get the 2 mics and the Aardvark if you have a PC and the Motu if
Get the 2 mics and the Aardvark if you have a PC and the Motu if you have a Mac.