hahahaha!, Great Uncle Cedar! if things get hotter, will look like ** forum!

In fact I recorded/mixed/arranged and mastered 2 Rap albums. One of them, where I mostly mixed and mastered got MTV video play. And it was a poor, unsigned band. Stuff? here it goes, start laughing...

Q10 > MASTER X > Power dither level 3 for mastering inside PT 5.1.1

for recording and mixing: 02R v2, At4050 A, 1 Lexicon MPx1, the 2 SPX900 from the 02R, 1 TSR 12 and 1 SGX 200 with the most autopan distorted delay , creating a unique effect on voice, Roland Dm800.

I imagine that any mid level musician shall have this stuff at home or at his basement studio in the USa, something that it is not that easy here in Brazil.
So... is the attitude, goal, preseverance and talent that makes the difference.
Please, correct me if I am wrong.

I have seen guys with Sonic soultions, Manley and PT HD doing extreme shit down here.
:)

Ya know. That is somthing to be proud of. BUT lets not forget what kind of record you said you recorded, a "Rap" record. I am sorry but it doesnt take much to make a "Rap" record. Hell it doesnt take much to be a rapper. Your beat, your bass , your samples, your random noises from out of no where, come from a machine, I am a super newb, but I know that when 80% of the recording is from a machine, the challenging job of getting the acoustics right, doesnt come into play. Lets push a few buttons, and bam start talking about how much money we got , or how much pus*y we get. And yes I said talking, cause lets face it thats what most of them do. "Jay Z" "puff daddy" "Fabulous" hardly any rappers even put any harmony, or feeling into it anymore , maybe Outkast, and well 2 pac , but hes dead now. I dont think I even have the right to post on this forum, cause I am not a ME, but I just couldn't resist commenting on this. I dont mean to downplay your achievments, Im sure you are far more experienced in this than I, I just had to downplay "Rap" as an art that needs good equipment, or good Mastering.

I am sure someone will correct me on this :)

NO Wait guys ,, after reading that I just realized some of my points were a little off , and maybe wrong. It does take good equipment, and I should have included eminem as one of the rare rappers that make the Nuemann U87 work a little bit. I think I am a little bias, because of my overall disrespect, disliking, discerning, and flat out hate I have for 90% of rap out today, and of yesterday. And how much money these talentless, Overrated, Fake, "Studio" Gangsters get for there shitty ass songs. Okay I think I cleared it up.

P.S (I wonder how many of these people have actually shot someone?????)

1 out of 1000 that say it.

I don't think we should be getting into what is worthy and what is not. It's as valid as anything else out there. there is good and bad in all kinds of music. I know cause I've worked on it. So lets gear this back towards how we deal with it and what we use to do it with.

So here is a question, what is it that people are looking for in mastering? i know this is a general question but I'm going to leave it that way. What does a band or artist expect or desire to come out of mastering?

Oh well, see there's a lot of people hating on rap. If anyone out there decides to specialize in rap . I predict theyLL make at least 3 times the money they made last year. Music has gotten so much simplier . No bridges , no underlying melodies . Just a basic 2 or four bar loop.

If money is the goal, then there are better ways to make it, like getting into a different line of work.

A lot of people hate punk rock, country, gospel, etc... If you take what you do seriously and do it well, then people will respect that.

I think anyone who takes their job seriously needs to listen to a variety of music. I always scan the radio when traveling listening to pop, rap, punk, college, classical, jazz, and whatever
I can find as a student of pro audio. I always enjoy listening to the ways various artists mix their music. I don't listen to a lot of rap but last night I listened closely to "get your freak on" and was impressed with the amount of work that obviously went into the mixing and mastering of it. A lot of time and big bucks I'm sure. I think any one is missing out if they only listen to one type of music.

After reading all the posts in this thread, I had to say something. My first post to this site was to have a song critiqued. The theme throughout each response was this is not my type of genre. I thought to myself, is this really a place where Pros dwell? I hope that some of the post I read in this forum was not from true professionals. I am in agreement with Don Grossinger and John Grimm, they seem to have adapted and are ahead of the game. Lefty, if things are working for you, just keep doing it, and if you have people buying your music, what more do you need?

I remember a popular national sindicated radio show, The American Top 40 I think, the host was then up and coming Rick Dees stating that rap was just a fad and it would only last "no more than two years." Well we all know better. And believe me he really didn't like rap. I wonder what he is playing on is radio show now.

I for one like many genre, some might say that's impossible, but if I must find that holy grale, I most go that route.

Lefty! I produce Reggae, Hip Hop, R&B, etc..

I would like to hear some of your productions.

I am silent now more!

Nuff Respect!

Jahji

It's all very simple!!!

If you're a professional mastering engineer there are a couple of "rules" you can't avoid:

1) You might not work only on the kind(s) of music that you like best. If you plan on staying in this business, you'd better learn how to satisfy a client who brings ANY kind of project to you. Or else you'd better be extremely lucky & get pegged as the "world's best _______ engineer" & have all those people work with you. And hope that kind of music lasts forever.

2) Client relations are as important as equipment. No, make that MORE important. If a client has confidence in you & you are pleasant to work with for hours under pressure, you are one step ahead.

3) Learn what your client wants. ASK QUESTIONS.
Don't impose your taste, give options & guideance & suggestions, but know that in the final analysis your client is going to have to go out & sell and stand behind the product you're trying to perfect. If they are dissatisfied, then they will not come back.

4) Listen to everything. You never know what will walk through the door tomorrow.

5) Have FUN with it! Good vibes are contagious! Prejudice is also very noticable. Get over it. There's room in this world for lots of self expression. Let's be positive as much as possible. Everyone has bad days, but your client is counting on you to do your best or they wouldn't be laying down their hard earned cash to be in the room with you.

6) Make the music sound better coming out than it did coming in. Period.

Thanks

Jahji.., thanx for the support ...i for one was born in jamaica grew up on reggae and played in bands most of my tennage life ..,I began specializing in rap due to its simplicity. I now have gote n to the point where I can get airplay with my music.., If these guys can help me get a better product I would appreciate it ..,matter of fact im sure some of these guys would call reggae simplistic and too basic but who knows .. im just happy learning all ive learned on this site for the past three years ; these guys are good but they sometimes make too much of a big deal of irrevelent stuff

Jahji.., thanx for the support ...i for one was born in jamaica grew up on reggae

Lefty!! a way yu a seh!! I too was born in Jamaica. I moved to Canada in 1976 at the young age of nine. You know what we say about Reggae music. it's sweeta dan cook food. :)

Reggae is not simple my friend, it's simple yes, if you know it, but trust mi, many have tried and it just didn't come out right.

Any ways...

This website is a very good site. My short time here, I have already gain, I met you. :c:
Jahji

:w: One more vote for Reggae. Love Ska, too, going way back to The Specials.

Hey all!
This question is directed towards Bill Robert's statement about mixing to sound killer after mastering.
Bill, or anyone, could you elaborate on that concept. Something tells me that it's a can o worms, but I have to start somewhere. I've been involved in a home studio for a while now and I'm always craving that extra little something that I find missing in a lot of tracks.

I usually find that people mix using 2-bus processing. Instead of spending the time to make the mix sound good using the individual tracks, they use 2-bus compression, eq, and limiting to balance things out and correct for problems. This leaves very little room to make any corrections in the mastering stage because the mix has been overprocessed. leave all processing off the 2-bus and make the mix great, Not only will the mix turn out better, so will mastering.

Exactly Michael!

Basically the Killer sound I am looking for (this is a general description, other forms of music can and will cause this description to change some)
...is for each instrument to "sit" in the mix as though I am hearing the instrument live. The mix should allow for each instrument to be able to be followed at all times with minimal masking. Proper panning can make up for situations where some would otherwise use compression.

Remember this:

Boosting EQ increases dynamic range, cutting EQ compresses dynamic range, leaving EQ flat will neither boost or cut the dynamics.

This said, Some instruments require boosting certain frequencies per track to get them to sit right in the mix where other make require a general cut. I am referring to analog console mainly but digital EQ does this as well.

Do not be afraid to use EQ and panning to your advantage. High frequencies benefit from wide pans. IF an acoustic piano is mixed in with a drum kit, look at the dynamics (natrurally of both) and preserve them so they sound real, all the time. IF you must use comprossion on a track, you must counter this (lower mids increase) with proper eq. Make compressed sounds "sound" as though (with EQ) they are uncompressed.

Basically, the mix needs to have the impact of a live performance, front row center. 2-Bus compression is out in my book.

Unless you have "real compressors" it is best to leave the 2-bus uncompressed and go for a tasty live sound. Leave some dB to play with as well. OM's (2-bus masters) that come in here peaking at zero are not a good thing. -3 peaks are more like it. We can take it up to the level it needs to be at.

Well nowa day most people don't wana take the time with their mixes .., the 2-bus everything . I for one may take up to 4 days to mix; allowing for a better mix so in mastering there is little to do. I got this concept from jamaica where at channel 1 studios they use to go all out in the recording and sequencing part of the process; they even took the bass speaker and placed it in the corner facing the wall to capture that deep bottom..,

Glad you like it and the buyers...I just wonder what it "could" have been.

Try it sometime.

Hey, how about posting a track?

I gurantee I can take it to a whole new level.

Whew.....

I've been reading this thread all night and I must say that it's been pretty interesting. It was kinda' like listening to a championship fight on the radio back in the day. Can't say whether or not there was a winner or if there should be a winner. A lot of good and interesting points were made (though some weren't as elegant as others).

But the bottom line is whether or not anyone has learned anything from it all. Hopefully the verdict is a resounding YES .

Before I go on let me say that this is my first post and it's a pleasure to have stumbled upon so much knowledge and experience (and differences of opinions). I won't go into my history, you can read my profile for that but I have been involved in music for over 25 years. Most of that time in the performance end of the business.

I've been running my own studio for about ten years now and and it's been an ongoing learning experience. Including trying to touch on the mastering end of things. Can't say I've quite got that down yet, which is why for important projects I let someone else more qualified than myself take on this challenge. Just recently I had the pleasure of having one of my clients projects (which happened to be a rap project) mastered by one of RO's own moderators (And I didn't even know this until I started reading through some of the posts here). My clients project was mastered by Doug Milton. Considering what both Doug and I had to work with, I'd say it turned out pretty good. This project had already been recorded at another studio and had many issues (EQ,Phasing,Vocals recorded improperly,etc..). I got the project simply for pointing out these issues to the client who thought they had an already finished product (Of course it didn't hurt that they had already recorded a track at my place with favorable results). These same issues were pointed out by Doug as well which in my opinion is what prompted them to redo the project. The key was that they heard it from two different parties who had no affiliation nor had we ever even communicated with each other. The issues mentioned above had to be addressed before either one of us would touch the project. So we did what was needed of us to turn this project into a viable product.

To make a long story short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it took another pair of trusted ears (The mastering engineer) to persuade the client to do what they set out to do in the first place which was to put out a good product they could be proud of.

Communication is a beautiful thing when used correctly. :c:

Hey Doug :w:

Welcome!

John is a real pro, and I have no doubt that years of working on the other side of the glass has contributed to his excellence as an engineer.

I’d like to add that it was a pleasure to work with John. We communicated throughout the project and along with conspiring to save the client from themselves; we talked about what things he would handle during his mixing phase and what I would handle during mastering. We were both comfortable with what each other was doing and able to maximize our portion of the process.

It’s cool that lefty has found a system that works for him and that he’s able to forge his own destiny. It’s also good to know that recording engineers and mastering engineers can work together to produce a great product all can be pleased with.

Originally posted by Doug Milton:
along with conspiring to save the client from themselves;

:s: I laughed for 15 minutes after reading that one Doug. :p:

maybe we can both be involved in the planning stages of their next project and make all of our lives easier....

Originally posted by Doug Milton:
maybe we can both be involved in the planning stages of their next project and make all of our lives easier....

If and when that next project happens, I'll have no problems with what you're suggesting. They could use plenty of guidance. You have no idea how many times during that project I said to myself..."Man...If only I coulda' been involved with this from the start". Pretty much everything concerning the recording end of things would have been handled differently.

So tell me...how did the processing for the vinyl go? :tu: